Since i've been here, ive seen alot of thread with the title no skeptics aloud and such.

I don't understand why rather than understanding both points of view, youd rather just ignore one side and just see it in your way, to be honest, i call that intolerance

lets say we replaced the word skeptic with the word christian, or muslim. or psikid. i don't see why skeptics points of view arn't embraced just because they dont fit your side of the argument.

So what is it that makes a believer dislike a skeptic?

I usually never put that in my threads...I have only done that, in threads where I need genuine help with psionics, and I dont want the thread to turn into an arguement over whether or not the topic at hand exist...

From what I have observed here, it is more the skeptic's insults that the believers don't want to have on the thread's. When you are called an idiot (or much worse) for having your own opinion, it is hard not to get insulted. If I say I believe in ghosts, why do I need to read how someone tells me I am r******ed and need to go see a psychiatrist? Like I said, it is more of how the skeptic's respond rather than their own beliefs.

Skeptics beliefs are completly void..lets not forget, there still beliefs, and deserve just as much respect as your own.
Atleast skeptics aknowledge threads. exclusion is a far worse insult surely

I'm sure if i made a thread titled "no christans please" the be allsorts of comments, lets not paint all skeptics with the same brush is all im saying

I agree that there's no reason to call someone names and insult them personally.

That said, as a skeptic who wishes he believed, the vast majority of the time skeptics will totally respect your right to your opinion. It's when you state that opinion as fact that people start clamoring for proof - especially when it's on a topic that, by it's very nature, has no proof.

What I mean is: If you start a thread stating that you believe people are all interlinked in a huge psychic net, few will show up and call you stupid.

On the other hand, if you start a thread telling people , "Here's the exercises I used to develop my telekenetic powers to superhero levels.", people are going to show up and ask why you haven't cleaned up at the roulette tables.

The arguments start up when one side claims fact, but refuses to entertain the notion that they should provide some evidence. I think it's not a matter of whether someone believes in bigfoot, aliens, gods, ghosts, or al Queda. It's more of a situation where your beliefs either match those of the person posting the 'fact' or not. If you believe in ghosts, it won't even occur to you to ask for proof is someone says ghosts are everywhere and you have a ghost that turns your car around in your driveway each night. On the other hand, someone who doesn't believe this will think, "If that's true, it should be a simple matter to catch this activity on film."

Just imagine if someone showed up and said, "Zeus is alive and well. He regularly throws lightning bolts down from a certain mountain-top."
Not believing this, you ask WHY they believe this - they then proceed to claim you're bashing them and add "NO ZEUS HATERS" to all their threads. I believe there are things science will discover proof for that we still consider a mystery today. That said, until solid proof for something exists, it's open to skepticism.

Well, i think it is a bit harsh to say "no skeptics allowed under pain of death" bla bla bla, but it's so offputting when you're trying to get an opinion on something and a load of skeptics turn up and call you an idiot and stupid and start humiliating you.

Obviously it's fun to have big debates as that's what this place is all about, but it is NOT fun when you really want to crack psi balls, and there are skeptics sneering at you and insulting you. Maybe there should be two separate forums for metaphysics then. Like one for debates, the other for practitioning. Hopefully we'd all know then what our territory is and skeptics will know that it is not their place to debate.

Even though it must be annoying for skeptics with these type of titles, but its unfair to try and crush someone's beliefs, and by calling them this and that. Not all of them obviously, but some of them need to think before they act.

Best Wishes, AoM xx

^^^^
I've seen no skeptic insult aimed at people who want to crack psi balls, if people want to crack psi balls they need both sides of the story

comments are only ever made at the people who "know" psi balls exist, and have long since Cracked Them.

thanks for your opinions

Ha!!! No skeptic ever crush anyone...Four Words...

Let's not inflame the issue by naming specific members, please. Keep your comments generalized to maintain civility.



...Enough said...

Most of the time no one is being insulted just told that their wrong.

I acknowledge that everyone has the right to post their opinions and beliefs and I certainly won't tell anyone otherwise but it doesn't meant I have to respect absurd claims of super powers though.

If I think someone is lying or just acting like they are a few beers short of a 24 then I will say it.

What I try to do is explain why some things just can't be done no matter how much some people want to think otherwise. I try to inject some rationality and logic into various topics, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. All this in an attempt to find out if something exists or not, to find something tangible to work with.

There is a difference in believing say moving something with the mind and claiming to do it. If you make the claim you have such a power then don't expect not to be asked to prove it.

Quite simply proof is not too much to ask for given the nature of many of the claims I read here.

I have never understood why people get upset when asked to prove something because if you really can do it then you should have no problem coming up with the goods. A person who says he can run a four minute mile has no problem proving it, they enter competitions and positively revel in demonstrating their abilities. Paranormal ability claimants don't do that. Why?

The other thing I suspect I know the reason for, is that claimants never want to simply put an end to the skepticism they come up against. Often the response to a request for evidence or proof is a simple "I don't have to prove anything to anyone, I know it's real, it's up to me what to I believe" or something similar.

I understand not everyone cares what other people think but my experiences in life tell me that there are a great deal of us that really do care what other people think and will do all kinds of things just to prove me wrong and them right. I think that is a part of human nature.

I can only come up with one reason that there aren't thousands of people with paranormal abilities proving them outright just to shut us up. I'll leave it up to those reading this to decide what that reason most probably is.

Hey papaver, I am one of the few who acrually shows proof...Or tries atleats, you guys are never happy though...

And have I not given you credit for that?

You are the only one I've ever found that is even willing to have a go.

what happens in the end when you can't prove it though? were do we go from there?

Just makin sure you know...

And I was making a cheap imatation...

Though he has called me a psi kiddie and a wanna-be x-men countless times...I have heard him say go see a psychiatrst before...He is the most harsh skeptic on this board...

There was another last year who gave psychic readings to any skeptics or believer alike just because... Anyone willing to back up what they say are far and few in between.



Well your a kid and you claim to use psi thus the term psi kiddie.

Many of the abilities you claim you have are featured in funny books especially X-Men.

As for seeing a psychiatrist I don't know enough about you to make the suggestion.

Because the proof I have seen you provide, is debunkable easily. Like I did in that video I made just for you that morning reading your thread. (i.e pin wheel moving while I'm staring at it, even when I leave the room)

Yeah I really don't think that is right at all. Really what we both...beleivers and skeptics, really want is answers. Why shut either out? It is very important to have these debates....don't ya think?

I agree .

These debates encourage both sides to share ideas and think of other possibilities/methods. Hopefully leading to each gaining something from the discussion . and maybe even learning something along the way.

Would be pretty boring if we all sat here nodding in agreement all day and night .

IMO of course .

Skeptics have to be very quiet? Like in the library?

Were you aiming for "allowed" and had a typo, or is this a double entendre that I am not getting?

I see your point, but I do not hate or dislike the skeptics. But what makes so many skeptics completely intolerate of believers? The peace and tolerance has to work both ways for anything to be achieved. As far as I'm concerned, any skeptic is alright with me as long as they are willing to have a civilized discussion. It's when they come in blasting me for what I believe that I go on the defensive.

LOL...I think it is a typo!

Hey, now what happened to "skeptics are never hostile"? I'm pretty sure that you're passing your judgement right there, based on what? The fact that you haven't seen him do it yet? There are skeptics here who don't even like or agree with Heart on anything and many of them still admit that they HOPE he will prove them wrong, instead of shutting him down before even giving him a chance to prove it.

It's when these terms are meant to be used in a derogatory way that the problem arises. Hey, if anybody called me "tornado boy" or "Aang" or anything related to my abilities, i wouldn't be offended if they meant it in a good way, but Eric does not. He's simply doing it for the sake of psion-bashing.

How do you know... I haven't seen him really bash anyone but their claims are another matter.

What do you think your doing right now in this thread?.... Could it be bashing Eric I think so and while he's not here none the less. Both you and Heart have been. Heart is also not completely innocent in the matter either it goes back and fourth and is almost never just one sided so don't make it appear as such.

Would you and your *snip* buddy heart like a little cheese with that whine? Like seriously if all you guys are going to do is complain about other members then i don't think this is the site for you.

Stop the whining or simply *snip* if it's so bad here simple as that.

I predict the closure of this thread in 3....2....1....

3, 2, 1
Where is Eric?? I haven't seen him in awhile. Anyways...wow! That is all I have too say.

Being a skeptic, I have very little reguard for rules, and when they're mispelled, I won't even consider them valid.

I'm simply stating that there are many skeptics, Eric as an example, who do bash people for their beliefs. Yeah, I guess it is a little unfair to go off and use him as the only example, but you don't see me going off on a tangent to insult him either. All I'm saying is that ALL people, not just Eric, should at least be fair and treat other members with respect. And there's no need to curse me out or bash me or heart, man. That's not exactly fair and civilized discussion.

Okay, here are the rules set up by site administrators. These are the rules that we ALL have to follow, including myself. I'll do my best to abide by them and be respectful. I'm sorry if I've ever personally attacked or offended anyone. That's not what I'm about, so I apologize.



Okay, here are the rules set up by site administrators. These are the rules that we ALL have to follow, including myself. I'll do my best to abide by them and be respectful. I'm sorry if I've ever personally attacked or offended anyone. That's not what I'm about, so I apologize.

If this discussion is to continue, people will refrain from mentioning specific members by name, keep your comments directed in a generalized manner at 'believers' or 'sceptics', targeting individuals is inflametory and provocative.

As a sidenote to Heartgram, no one 'reported' your sig, I saw it and removed it as it violated the forum guidelines.

As a reply to the topic starter, as a rule 'no sceptics allowed' threads are mostly short lived, requesting disbelievers to stay out of topics posted on an open discussion forum is ludicrous and not advisable. Members have to be willing to accomodate both sides of a discussion if they wish to participate here. That is the main purpose of this board.

Again, if people believe members are behaving inappropriately and offensively, use the 'report this post' function to bring their conduct to our attention. We will deal with the situation as needed. Thank you for your co-operation.

MM

The bottom line here is that nothing on these boards will change no matter how many threads like this pop up.

Nothing will change at all. AG you are quite right.

only assistance is required, if they wana be skeptic, make a new thread disputing it,

Quick enter the James Randi million dollar challenge! $1,000,000 for anyone being able to prove and paranormal effects / abilities... (plus you'd probably win a nobel prize for discovering a new range of physical laws etc) :-/


I don't think skeptics MEAN to be abusive or rude (unless they're a jackass) The problem simply stems from one group of people (skeptics) requiring reproducible, testable, evidence to believe in the paranormal.. and the other group (paranormal believers) believe in what they do often in the face of contradictory evidence..

(as an example) The experiments to prove a paranormal event like a psychic etc are very simple.. all they do is remove any forms of trickery and give results which would instantly prove/disprove a psychic event... To a Skeptic who simply needs very very simple forms of evidence to prove a paranormal event, the advent of believers twisting & weaving, denying evidence, making excuses, refusing to the tested is INCREDIBLY frustrating. Unfortunately all this non-evidence can make tempers heat up..

Overall i don't think people should post *no skeptics* in their posts... everyone (reguardless or thier beliefs) should simply follow basic human courtesy.. (always hard in the easily mis-interperated world of typed words)

I'm hoping that Heart can give a good demonstration of his powers with at least some basic controls involved which will be more than we have seen from all the other TK claimants with their uncovered wheels and fakery. Heart doesn't seem like a faker to me. Also I think that Heart himself will learn a lot from these tests.

I will try to encourage Heart to go to somebody with experience in the scientific method like a high school physics teacher who, if convinced, could start the ball rolling with some decent tests, maybe get a professor involved. If Heart can do what he says he can do we have here a chance to prove this ability to the world. Heart could the first and foremost real TK practitioner on the planet.

If I knew I could do what he claims I would do everything in my power to seek an audience with members of the scientific community.

Heart if you proved to the world what you claim to be able to do you could drop out of school and live off of the wealth you would gain.... Think about it, you would gain instant millions from all the TV appearences, movie deals, book deals and royalties.

Who doesn't want to not have to work like seriously... You could just do whatever you wanted and retire in your teens.

how do you prove something like reincarnation...

Threads which deliberately shut out anyone with an opposing viewpoint are generally disallowed, threads that ask for 'no skeptics' will either be closed or we'll ask the OP to remove that restriction. This is a discussion forum where discussions should allow for all manner of views and opinions, not just the opinions the OP wants to hear.

By the very nature of psychic phenomena there will always be disagreement between believers and skeptics, it is not only unavoidable but essential for objective discussion to take place.

What is not acceptable are insults, personal attacks and bickering. Members are asked to conduct themselves in a civil manner and avoid getting annoyed when unable to convince the other side to change their minds. Similarly, members claiming extraordinary psychic abilities should avoid becoming annoyed when others question what they are saying and remember that questions and criticisms are not 'insults'. If you make an extraordinary claim then you cannot expect everyone to simply accept it at face value, we're all looking for answers here, most skeptics want to be convinced.

As always we encourage members to hit 'report' to let us know about inapropriate behevaiour.

Now lets get back to some serious and civil debate on the metaphysics board please.