Ok, as I have stated in other post, not only I can feel the "psi balls" I make, I told my brother to feel inside my hand, and tell me what he felt(Didn't tell him anything was there, and he doesnt know about psi) And when he did, he said it felt cold, and electricy, and then today, I made psi flow from my fingertips, and told my friend Austin(He knows that I practice this stuff, but doesn't know anything much about what psi feels like or anything) to put his hand under my fingers...As soon as he did he pulled his hand back, and said it felt cold...REALLY COLD...And said it felt really wierd...Also,jackpaperdig , a skeptic who says, that he doesn't believe in psi, and thinks of them as a trick of the mind...But he says to be sure, he made a "psi ball" and told his sister to feel inbetween his hands(His sister is bliss to psi also) and he said as soon as she did, she pulled her hand back saying "What the hell was that!!!" He said she said it was very cold, and almost electricky...Now, do you think, it's just a coincidence, that all these people, had the same feelings when asked to feel inbetween our hands(For Austin under my hands) I highly doubt each person, if psi is fake, I doubt each one of their minds would make up the same feelings...It's highly unlikely...


So look, I'm extending a challenge to the skeptics...You guys do the work for a change...You guys all seem to love and make me do work to prove stuff to you, now it's your turn to put soem effort into this...I want you guys, the skeptics, to practice making psi balls, for one week, once you feel that you have something (Even if you think it's just your mind) Tell someone, who is oblivous to psi, to feel inbetween your hands, note their reactions...Also, note your own sensations as well...This is my challnge for you guys...I have put out way more than my fair share of effort for you skeptics, so it's your turn...I know you guys don't believe in psi, but give it a try, and see what others think..I know alot of you have tried psi before, and dismissed it as a figment of your imagination, but try it anyways, and note other peoples reactions when they feel the energy in your hands...For those skeptics who havent tried...Go here and if you want alot more detail on it, go here...


Just do this little test....Many of you say you truely wnat psi to exist, so expelling a little effort won't be hard, right? Post your results here, and please, for God's Sake, don't lie, or change your info to support your arguement....Have fun!

hahahaha for extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence..

Since we all agree that the effect could be a form of self / empathetic hypnosis.. how exactly is getting more people to do the same thing in ANY way helping support the thoery you have about psi-balls etc? More people experiencing the same NON-paranormal effects doesn't make it any more paranormal!!!


[please please read the following paragraph slowly and consider EVERY word as important as the last]
Doesn't it phase you at all that there has never been a shred of evidence, not a single measurable, reproducible effect ever discovered in the realm of telekinesis. If the evidence is so obvious and testable then the scientific community would flood to you in huge numbers, the whole of humanity would be caught up in an age of discovery and development.. the repercussions for such evidence would have groundbreaking global repercussions... and yet no-one can find this evidence.... it's almost as if it doesn't exist!

And yet, we didn't relize the world was flat until humanity had many around for 1000's of years...

Science is at it's begining, not it's end...We know less than 10% about the world in which we live...

And I'm not simpiliy asking you guys to try it, I'm askin you guys to try it, but make others comfirm what you feel...Like, make a psi ball, tell your friend to feel in bewteen your hands, note their reaction, and see what they felt, see if the feelings are similar to yours...You don't need to say psi isn't real...I know all your opinions...Just do this test though...It cant possibly hurt your stance on this issue...Or can it?

And soon as we had the means to discover the world was infact spherical. We did.
Just as in the same way, I didn't know what made the psi-wheel spin, and discovered through the means of suggestion, convection currunts and heat minipulation
Its not our responsibility to provide proof, that belongs to the believer.

So, H...

If I understand your position, then you could also cup your hands so that there would not be a psi-ball there. It's your choice, right?

So, play a little game. See if you can make your brother and your friends tell you all about a psi-ball that isn't there.

Now you need to be careful, since you might tip them off. You need to be all gushy and stuff. And you need to ask the same kinds of leading questions you always do (like, What do you feel now?).

Um, but the suggestion in the OP is a waste of time. None of your critics doubts that your friends get as worked up as you say they do. It is uninteresting whether their friends could be convinced to say something, too.

And if they did what you asked anyway, then when the krowd said that the answer is yes, their friends reactions were the same whether there was a psi-ball or not, then you would say "Oh, you guys don't know whether there's a psi-ball there or not."

See, you do learn from them.

So, bottom line, you're the one who needs to do this experiment. You've already done half of it. Now try the other half.

Ok, I'll do it now...

Just did, he said he didn't feel anything...He just felt heat, which was the reult of me just washing my hands...I did this with Austin earlier today, I told him to feel my hands when nothin was their, he didn't feel anything...So they CAN tell the difference..


And, why would it kill you to go ahead and tyr it anyways? Just for kicks?

"we didn't relize the world was flat until humanity had many around for 1000's of years" what does this mean? The evidence to confirm that the world was flat wasn't readily available.. when it was.. it was "proven" with re-producable, testable evidence...

Science isn't at it's end? yes... we all know this and agree completely! Are you trying to say that science knows everything about everything? well.. thats obviously wrong and no skeptic would EVER claim it to be so....

The effects and explanations for psi-balls have been noted to be self/empathetic hypnosis... by more people doing exactly the same self/empathetic hypnosis it won't do ANYTHING to support your claims.
By claiming that skeptics are afraid of doing your "test" because they mind find evidence is laughable in the extreem.. science is the framework for a never ending persuit of knowledge, asking people to perform a FLAWED test and saying they are afraid if they don't do it ISN'T science and it's NOT proof.. it's called a logical non-sequitur.. the conclusion doesn't follow the premise.

The test you're asking of us is flawed and non-supportive... THAT is the reason i'm not going to waste my time.. with simple scientific concepts of experimental controls i don't HAVE to do the "test" to KNOW that there is something seriously wrong with it..

Well, why dont you try it anyways? It isn't your feelings I'm concerned about as much as the people yyou ask...I just wanna see if everyone reports feeling the same thing....And, it wouldn't of been that hard to prove...The way the figured it out, was when they would sail ships from one place, and end up exactly in the same place...Doesn't sound that hard to do...And, isn't it possible maybe we don't have the technology to prove TK?

So they had absolutely NO idea what you were doing?

1. Are they in the room when you "make the psi-ball"
2. Can they see your face (possibly able to pick up on body language that you're not being serious)

Because, grasshopper, I know I can do it. So what would be the point?

Sorry to hear that you can't control the effect. Others can.

I made sure thye werent there when I made it...They Koty didn't know about psi at all...It was dark, he couldn't see me really, it was at night in our room, he walks in when I'm playin with a psi ball, he didn't notice it, so I asked him to fele inbetween me hands...

And Eight bit...Why not do the test, to prove me wrong? I doubt you have better stuff to do...You spend hours on here anyways...So why not spend a little time doin this?

Oh...... my....... god.........

Thats NOT how the world was discovered to be round... the first global sea voyage was in 1519AD (and yes, traveling around the globe in a ship was a VERY hard thing to do) the world was discovered to be round in about 300BC by observing lunar eclipse and using trigonometry to calculate the worlds circumference...

Secondly.. if a person can feel a physical sensation then it is measurable... very easily measurable... the technology to "prove" psi-abilities has existed for a very long time...

It's obvious that you have a VERY bad grasp on the realm of scientific enquiry... just horribly bad... you don't even seem to grasp even the most basic forms of critical thinking or simple reasoning... i don't mean this as an insult.. it's just an observation..

We do have the technology to detect energy.

I have said this once before Heart!




Anyway, I done it just to say I did. (Hopefully it makes you happy!)

I cupped my hands together then thought about energy flowing through my hands, then I walked into
the next room and asked my fiance to put her hand in between my cupped hands.

Her 1st reaction was just as I thought! (The resounding WHY?) she finally did it. There was no immediate
reaction, the only thing she said that she could feel was heat emanating from my hands, nothing unusual.



Regards,
Tom

oh my god why don't you guys just get on with it and have a go? It's bad enough when believers make excuses why they can't give proof, but when the very people who get annoyed most at this end up doing it! How many hours a day do a lot of you stare at the telly, when you could take, i don't know, maybe ten fifteen minutes to try this? Come on you're the ones asking for proof! If you're right, fantastic, you've shut us up. If you're wrong, never mind you've proven something, you know a little bit more.

So please, stop whining and have a go, you might like it!

Best Wishes, AoM xx

*edit*sorry tom i posted at the same time as you, and thanks, i told you you were nice *edit*

Because understanding the basic principles of critical thinking show us that the test is horribly flawed. We're not being difficult, it's just a really bad test to perform which outcome won't support or disprove the original premise. Being able to rationalize the elements of the "test" show us that firstly it's flawed in that it doesn't prove anything as it isn't using any kind of control or taking into account any likely variables...

1. He's made a paranormal abilities claim
2. We've pointed out possible factors which could affect the claim...
3. He AGREES with us...
4. He then tells us to do a flawed test which doesn't address any of the factors we've all been discussing

See the problem?

If any person claiming paranormal abilities would LIKE to prove their abilities simply apply to http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html you will be tested fairly, with professional and correct techniques.. and if you prove your ability you get $1,000,000... simple...

Yes, Moro, makin psi balls is alot more than that...Once you feel satisfied that you feel something there(Even if you think it's fake) Then try it...And hey impostable, I'm just a teen man...I'm gettin this stuff from years ago, afetr reading it in science text books and stuff...Don't quote me on this stuff...I'm just givin examples...And, alot of times, the least possible scientific theory turns out bein the right one...If you want to follow the scientific method, then you must be open to EVERY possibility, and test EVERY possibility...And by test I dont mean get other people to do it...Test it yourself! Even if you think you know the results, try it anyways!

Ugh...Not again..The James Randi comp is completely a waste of time...Even in case he has no evidence against, he simpily makes up something to call it fake...He just wants to keep his money...

ONCE AGAIN! I have seriously tried to create a psiball many times Heart. The conclusion is always the same.
Nothing out of the ordinary happens, and can be explained with normal mind, and bodily functions.

Ok, well, maybe some of the others here should try and do this test, just to see what happens...I knew you all would do this..And I know how the test could be contamminated, but if the vast majority of people show the SAME EXACT FEELINGS...Than something must be going on! Thats what this test is for...The other skeptics need to suck it up and do it, like I do for you all!

Already asked and answered.


Not much of a reason to do anything.


It is encouraging that you doubt something.


And yet, grasshopper, nobody else pays a dime to feed me, house me, clothe me, ... when you can say the same, I shall take more seriously your opinion of how I spend my time.

I didn't say anything....Just implied it...I still don't get what the problem is...You guys cnat even do this tiny test...I agreed to do the psi wheel, which you guys told me to do, even though according to you people it is flawed...I agree to do stuff for you all the time...Why cant you return the favor?

The test is flawed because none of us are there to observe what is happening Heart. You say that your friends etc.
do not have a clue to what you are doing before you ask them to put their hand between yours! But, this just
doesn't justify much of anything.

Don't be so open minded that your brain falls out...

Sure, the explanations for any phenomenon can be the least known / accepted ones.... do you know HOW these little known / accepted explanations are supported? With controlled, repeatable, verrifyable and FALSIFYABLE evidence..

If an explanation is unlikely it doesn't mean we have to consider it unless there is enough evidence to lead us down that path. In the case of psi-abilities.. in the world.. in the history of modern science.. there has been ZERO evidence for psi-abilities... therefore it is VERY VERY unlikely that they exists.. if they DO exist then they simply require simple, easy to do, easy to falsify, easy to test, easy to reproduce evidence...

The evidence to support your claims is very very simple.... the rational thinkers here ARN'T the ones ducking & weaving to avoid these tests....


Because the test is very simply flawed and WON'T help your claims at all... it's very simple to deconstruct your test & point out the problems... if you had a good test... like putting a psi-wheel under a glass bowl resting in shallow water not subject to a source of heat or vibrations then THAT is a good test... right there!! PERFECT TEST!!

then do it to other people, and see what you get...Simple as that...One person's results doesnt give you a conclusion...


Zero Proof?
Whta about all the people who knew to cancle their flights on 9-11, cause they had a bad feleing...How people can predict certain events...How some things fly off tables and shelfs, when a person walks who is stressed...

Theres alot of evidence..You just have to look for it..Which you dont seem to feel like doing...

LOL!!! What about the people that DIDN'T cancel thier flights? What about the fact the MANY people are canceling thier flights on bad feelings and thier planes DON'T crash (heaps of people are scared of flying)

Objects flying off shelves? Well why can't the effects be re-produced, recorded, verified etc.... it's all rumors & hearsay... again.. the rules for even the most basic evidence are very simple... yet NEVER has evidence been produced.. The "proof" which seems to satisfy YOU is a good story... unfortunetly the realms of science need MORE than a good story. The scientific concepts to make the computer you are typing on at the moment wouldn't exist if the human race believed in things simply because someone told them a story about it...

I repeat my statement... ZERO evidence has ever been found to support the theory of Psi or any other supernatural events...

not saying this is real but there is something to it. i have a friend whos gotten into this, psi balls, he made one and told me and my gf to put our hands into it, there was definately something there but as a skepticall believer i easily pushed it to something as a psycological thought that made me think there was something when there wasnt.

then he tried something diffarent and found out that my gf has always had a iffy right knee, even i didnt know that. he said he "felt it"

You guys are saying that it is a flawed test. Does anyone have any ideas how to get rid of the flaws. And if you can't trust the person claiming they can do it, do you trust any believers to tell the truth? Or even any skeptics! Do you trust anyone enough to let them have a go, and fairly, and if they gave you their results would you trust them to be true?

Just help Heart get rid of the flaws and stuff, and have another go...please?

Angel x

1 word, youtube ive seen some good convincing stuff on there, ahen (amongst the crap and disproved stuff) but if you cant believe most videos, make a convincing one maybe using 2-3 cameras getting random people, that may work

There really is no easy way to get around flaws on these subjects with the internet.



Regards,
Tom

This is getting kinda ridiculous,look ,heart ,I've been practicing this before you even knew about the whole thing, I can make psiballs,I can
Make people feel something without making a psiball, and I can also feel the " energy" flowing in a specific part of my body just by visualizing it. I just
Have one question, how does this prove the existence of psi? with all respect to you heart, but this thread is pointless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok Heart, I will do your little test, aslong as you do a proper covered pin wheel tk test on Wednesday, like you promised. I'll post the results when I get them.

why??????????? even if it works, do you consider it to be "solid proof" of psi's existence?

I agreed with you right up until the last sentence. Randi is full of it, for reasons discussed elsewhere in this forum. But I have a question. If the experiment lived up to your standards, would you do it then? If so, please correct Heartagram as to how the test should be carried out. I believe that the fact that he can make a cold psi ball is interesting.

Personally, I believe that even if PK exists, it takes years to complete. I don't even know why people are so eager to do it, since it's so difficult. Telepathy, remote viewing, AP and placing your conciousness in other living things seem easier from what i've read on the subjects.

Sorry Blacksabbath, I agreed to do the uncvovcered test, where I would make iut spin a certain order that had beeen set ahead of time...I think it was Left,right, left,left,right...Correct me if I was wrong on the order...

And I quote what you said

"I never said I wont do the bowl video...I have agreed to do so...But the bowl will take alot more time to conquor...I have never moved objects that were sealed inside a container..."

So I am assuming, you can't do it?

You only will do the uncovered test. Which is a worthless one. You won't do the covered because you know you can't do it. There is nothing hard about setting it up. You just don't want to be proved wrong. You are all talk.

Exactly my thoughts now. And that quote of him agreeing to do the covered pin wheel video can be found here http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...1401&st=150

(3rd post down)

Boo ya!

Man, I even told him in a different thread which he posted in after this, to reply to this. Seems he is trying to avoid it? lol. Oh well, Eric

I'm sure it was inevitable! As far as showing proof, these believers can only go so far before failing.

Yes, just a matter of time, it seems..

I am jus a kid...I cannot do your every whim...I have a life outside of psionics...I seriously have no time to do these silly test for you skeptics...I will do the wednesday vid if possible, though I cant garuentee it...After that, any more test I do fro you guys will be at my own consent...

Fair enough! Actually, I would prefer you not do anymore vids. They really do not prove much of anything.



Regards,
Tom

Ok, I like that, so, must I make the wednesday vid? I really dont wanna, and it wont prove anything...So, must I do it? I will go with whatever the majority wants...

I woudn't care if you didn't post the vid.! But, some of the others on here may have a different opinion on that.

One for not posting the vid! Yea! I'm giving the people until 9:00 to vote...After then I'll count the majority...

I want to see you proven wrong. Do the covered test. Boo ya.

I want to see you do the test.

So Heartagram, I assume you cannot do the covered pin wheel. Now you are making excuses once more, as always, to get around it. Look, if you have these abilities, then you spent/spend time to develop them. How come you all of the sudden don't have time to back up your claims? And please don't tell me you don't have like 10-20 minutes of your life, and a transparent bowl to put up this video. I am 21, I live with my gf, I have friends, family, a work, and I know for sure that I have atleast time to do such. And I even agreed to do your test, but I am not going to bother if you just make more excuses. And to vote, don't make that "uncovered" test on Wednesday, because it proves nothing.