Im sorry? i dont follow.

This person fills pages of an otherwise knockout forum with his used-food, and you engage him, enabling more of his ludicrous theories. You seem an intelligent guy, yet haven't grasped just how out of touch is DC. You mention you don't see the scales on Q, perhaps that indicates a growing awareness, on your part, that DC's postings aren't founded in reality, nor even bare logic. Please continue examining his theories here, and you'll soon see for yourself how downright silly they really are.

Well it shure as hell dont look like scales to me in the pic i had posted, but then again i did say that i douted it was real, any1 else have an oppinon

You are preaching to the preacher Incorrigible. DC and i have a certain amount of history to which we fell out. If you need more on that we can do that in PM. If you read my other posts you will see i am not new to his posts.
However, it is inherent in me to question things i do not understand in a bid to further my own knoledge. That being said on the occasions when DC says something which i find mildy relevant to the topic on hand i think it is ok to question him on it. But do not worry that i am decieved by poorly executed arguments or that i in anyway encourage his rantings. I just feel that everyone is entitled to a fair hearing and so i reply to posts i deep relevant.

Fair enough, and good luck to you, sir.

The problem isn't people who engage in discussion it's with people attacking him and making disparaging comments. Getting on to people for trying to debate with him isn't going to help, while most won't agree with his theories on dragons nonetheless when engaged in a civil manner a constructive discussion can be had so long as everyone stays calm and objective.

Good luck indeed because i think you may need it.

You're surely aware of the many examples where the person in question brands anyone doubting his theories as ignorant, uneducated, or worse. I'd be able to offer several paragraphs of direct quotes of condescension, if you desire. Another "quality" is turning unrelated threads into dragon discussion. Again, kudos for such a fine forum, but a little exasperation leaks through, occasionally.

Well i can't argue with that, im getting kind of sick of DC trying to always turn the topic into a discussion about dragons or wheather or not they exsist, i do believe that there is a thread for that and it is titled "Dragons" and this thread suits it fine as well but on others DC needs to learn to stick to the topic, now am i right or am i right?

I also know of numerous incidents of others attacking him and turning threads in to bashing sessions, unfortunately this makes things a lot more complicated when trying to remain unbiased and taking action that is fair to all concerned.

DC has received several warnings and a suspension to date for the conduct you've mentioned, if it doesn't stop then he'll end up taking a break that's a lot longer if not permanent.

Now lets get this thread back on topic.

ill start.....*ehem* i for one think dragons are real and not scared to admit it.!!!! also i love saruman's pic!

I'm curious what possible reason might compel you to "think dragons are real?"

hey! this isnt about that so we cant. ill explain in a PM but im not ruining this bored for this guy just cause there are non belivers *playfully punches you* see when i try to boost someones moral someone has to shoot me down

Well thanks but thats Incorrigible1 for ya, Incorrigible1 do you make it your hobby so see people who don't see the same as you shot down?

me?!?!?!

woops got to edit that part

no weregirl not you Mr. I shoot people down cause they don't see the same as me

oh.. right then

Yes now you know what i ment

and again i agree with your previous post



I too think that dragons are real and i too am not afraid to admit it and Saruman's pic is cool

I liked "Final Fantasy 8" also, Seeker, but do not consider it a relevant source for mythology.

I asked "I'm curious what possible reason might compel you to "think dragons are real?"

Sorry (not really) but that's not "shooting down." That's asking a serious question that no one seems able to answer.

Here's some actual Aztec depictions of Quet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm..._telleriano.jpg
http://www.history-aztec.com/images/Quetzalcoatl.jpg
http://altreligion.about.com/library/graph...tzalcoatl13.jpg

He's definitely eating people, even in the Aztec codexes.

And no, FFVIII is not a reliable source of mythological information.

i am sorry I have given you too much credit before, and treated you as an adult. My mistake. For your information I have NEVER derailed a thread here. The only way a thread can be derailed, is if many people begin talking about another subject, and they would only do that if they all wish to discuss the new idea.

ANY topic about a large, mysterious REPTILIAN cryptid that has the ability to elude detection is technically about a creature which our ancestors considered a 'dragon', even if in that culture another name for 'dragon' is used, because this is a generic term for a large mysterious reptile. If the creature in question is in China it will be called a Lung (becasue this is the Chinese word for dragon.

It was not until the word dinosaur was invented in the 19th century that people began calling giant reptiles dinosaurs instead of dragons. But there is absolutely no evidence any dinosaur has lived past the KT event 65 million years ago. Therefore the words our ancestors used for mysterious, giant reptiles which they thought were intelligent, and even gods, are probably the most appropriate, than words for an extinct archosaur we call dinosaurs. And among English speaking people this word is dragon. I am not the first person to call lake monsters and sea serpents 'dragons' it is commonly used, only you just know so little about any of this, but like to feel important by saying something here, even when doing so you contribute nothing.

To examine a cryptid story, and interject the idea that the cryptid resembles the popular conception of a dragon is not derailing a thread. If an adult does not agree, they can simply ignore the post. Some people find it interesting, and that it makes sense. If "it makes you sick", then I suggest you don't bother reading any of my posts. They are really easy to spot. The same applies to anyone else. Instead of childish attacks, simply ignore a post if you don't like what the poster says. Its an 'adult' thing.

In all fairness DC, you acknowledged his presence only when he agreed with you, but left him to fend for himself when other members of the forum tore into his arguments for being based on the D&D FRPG.
It seems that it was Archosaur, Lil' Gremlin and myself who were trying to steer him toward more authoritive sources/building a stronger argument.
I'm not going to make any presumptions about what may have been exchanged in PMs, but here in the public forums you let the poor kid swing in a noose you could have easily helped him avoid, had you provided any source which he could have cited.
And now you wonder why he too has come to regard you as a poor choice of 'mentor'?
For Shame...

I suppose I could expect no less than those kind of falsehoods from the likes of you.

The record will show that I was the first person here to tell him that D&D and the modern fantasy genre has virtually nothing to do with the dragons that ancient and medieval man actually believed in. But no, I don't have the time to follow his every post and and defend ideas that are completely indefensible. I admitted that I didn't bther to even to look at the "which cryptid is the most unbelievable' thread, for several days, becasue I knew it was simply created for the adolesent hecklers here to attack the idea of cryptid dragons.

So actually you (and he) should thank me. By not encouraging his D&D beliefs, (which I never held even at his age), now he feels he is part of the same clique of adolescent hecklers that used to (and probably still) make fun of him. It may be the first time he thinks he is part of group, which ironically is the group that thinks dragons are ridiculous and never existed. But maybe he is now fantasizing that he will create dragons to attack me instead of his school bullies, so we are making progress.

What a load of old bull...

For a start it's standard fare for you to use the 'kids today are stupid, and let video games, sci-fi channel and D&D rot their brains' defence when 'discrediting' a critic, yet you do bugger all to encourage them to read those books that will lead them to the knowledge you alledgedly posses.
And now to make an untrue statement about not having time to read his posts? My god man, you were posting your comments in the same discussions.
I even dropped a hint to him that you weren't backing your claims on D&D, and you still didn't help him out.
Your last statement just shows that you were willing to use him to strengthen your position, so I don't think he needs to thank you at all.
I hope he takes my earliest advice to him, and realises that devoting his free time to obsessive fantasies about those who've ridiculed and turned on him is little more than surrendering to their will.

And speaking of thanks, I never got mine for pleading the case for giving you a second chance when you came back from your suspension...
How soon we forget...Link

edit:added link

I agree with everything you are saying.

Dinosaurs are no longer considered reptiles, fyi. They're more closely related to birds than any kind of reptile based on their skeletal structure and DNA. I think he was referring to you giving DS false information and fueling his desire for dragons to be real based off of his experiences with videogames. We're not "childishly attacking" you when you post false information DC, we're pointing out the fact that you're not always right, even when you think you are.

That is an out and out lie. Me and everyone here knows how you do it, including Saruman who has had to warn you about it several times.

God, I'm so angry! They gave me a carrot muffin instead of cranberry. What's up wi - OMG DC'S BACK!

I bugger off for another two months and it's the same damned people arguing about the same damned thing. Does this site never change? LMAO

Yeah DC, I've seen the warnings before too. Can't believe you're still at it. I guess I'll never be taking that quote out of my signature, eh?

Dragon Seeker, I see you seem to be learning how to take DC's worlds with a few pounds of salt, as we all have. Kudos.

And some of the comments on here are abolutely mind-boggling... the spiritual mumbo-jumbo, very glamorous, but not much effect real life except perhaps to strengthen mental resolve, which in turn leads to beneficial physiological responses. It's amazing what the body can perform if belief is strong enough, but there is NOTHING supernatural about it.

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before, but there are dozens of older threads that go into depth about the impossibility of literal dragons existing (unless they are used as an interchangeable label for dinosaurs or large reptiles) so I'd watch where you step, lest you anger those who have knowledge about what nature ACTUALLY created.

On the other hand, I find such religions (all those who DON'T promote humans or humanoids as the highest form of being) to be the most fascinating. For me, those cultures always seem more interesting, more whole, more closer to nature's roots than anything else. Unfortunately, they also tend to be tribal and are thus pretty much wiped out. Dragon-worshipping cults started by kids with too much time on their hands doesn't count.

Just from reading your posts though... I know a lot of people like you. You create something in your mind to make yourself feel more special, in this case dragons. A lot of us have done it at low points. The difference is that some keep it to themselves, and know in the back of their mind that it's just a fantasy. The line gets blurred quite easily in the best of us. You'll grow out of it in a few years, and if you cling to it your life situation will get worse. You're talking about school. **** school, and **** the people in it. I'll admit I wasn't crucified in my school at all, but everyone has their bad times and betrayals. Once you're out, it goes away like it never existed. Your friends get sorted out automatically, the drama goes away, and you're left with only the positive.

I don't mean to sound preachy, I'm just talking from experience, my own and others. Go ahead and argue against me, but come back in five years and I promise I'll try not to say "I told you so". =P

**** 'em. If you want revenge, do it by bettering yourself, and they'll seem like sh** in comparison. Chances are that they'll actually be sh** one day anyways.

Now, onto the evolutionary aspect: I'm not going to bother trying to explain natural selection to those who obviously don't understand it, but there is absolutely no basis for a large reptile to develop wings from nothing and no opportunity either. Dinos did it with existing limbs and became birds, but those birds aren't 30 feet long for a reason. "Yadda yadda, but look at Quetzalcoatlus!" What, you mean the man-sized flier who needed 40 feet worth of wings just to carry his OWN weight? Spinosaurus was a neat little hunter all by itself, but dear God, it wasn't the most agile chicken in the coop. I have a tough time picture circumstances where it would run (excluding ambush charges) let alone how the hell something that size would grow a pair of wings.

You've mentioned those gliding lizards before too, but let me remind you that we went over that to death, and there's be a wee bit of a track record if a lizard of a couple of inches were to go from highly advanced modified ribs to developing a full set of wings complete with the long bones of the limbs as well as the appropriate muscles to death with powered flight.

"Just becasue modern Christians are uncomfortable with the idea of the highest heavenly creatures being reptiles..."

Stop using this as evidence. This would be a very minor factor in the fact that very few people, let alone Christians, would accept your speculation as true.

And finally, as for "smart" people liking your ideas... I have seen some tolerate, but your only believers seem to be idealistic and wistful teenagers who play too many games and watch too many movies.

Edit: OMG I'm a believer nowww, I can search YouTube too!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u0eKEYNqhM...feature=related

I can answer it. They believe dragons because they WANT to, to the point where the delusion becomes reality in their minds.

Wraithgod! You're back!! Thank god you're back

Come now Otter, those were dental hygienists, not sacrifices.

It is odd to see depictions of Q scarfing people, especially in light of how he was not supposed to approve of human sacrifice. Still, there is a lot we don't know about the Aztec belief system, today.

"Willing" sacrifices intended to litarally 'feed' him may have been a completely different matter to "Q" and would not have even figured in the equation. And understand these were literal sacrifices directly to Q, and not the symbolic cutting out of peoples hearts for no good reason, after Q too, apparently had to break off direct human contact.

I can undestand "Q" thinking that would be a useless waste of human life.

The majority of mankind believed dragon were "real" for the vast majority of the time we have had written records, and for perhpas ever since he could be called a "man".

Disbelief in dragons is a rather new concept in the history of mankind. And since the majority of humans still beieve in the dragon gods, by the same names but as invisible spirits or bearded patricarchs, we cannot even say the belief has ever left. Even the ancients believed the dragons could assume human forms if they wish, so NOTHING has changed. Stormdragon Yahweh has more followers today, than any previous time in the history of the world.

My, almost the whole "gang" is back now.

I predicted their short attention spans would cause them to wander off with so many enticing cartoons and video games out there.

But now they are bored with those as well.

I wonder how long it will be before your childish antics close down more threads. But wait, Saruman is 'on' to you now.

I'm enjoying the back and forth going on. Please don't waste posts on insults.

OMG i leave this thread to go and see my friend and what happens? 2 more freaken pages

ok to cover a few things



No, i didnt really thinks so either, its just hey it thought it might be close to what he looked like



I agree with what undeadskeptic said in a way...


however to the rest i say you are incorrect, yes we believe because we want to, but its also because we havent shut our minds to the unexplained or new things possible, we have excepted that we may be wrong and are willing to admit it and i think that shows that we have opened our mind to the world, its people like you who have the closed minds, who don't want to believe because they fear the new, they fear the unexplained and if you can prove me wrong i will take back these words


and thanks for the links




O really now? your sorry you treated me with human decency, and i mean god forsake that i be treated like i should, as a person who is equal in rights and oppinons, i get this kind of bull every day in real life, dont you even think about dareing to ruin what little happieness i had left, because well what would the rest of you think?

For once in my life i felt like i was an equal and there you go shooting me down, i thought you were better than that DC i really did, but i guess i was wrong



You know your right, however this still does not convince me to close my mind to the world around me, it just go's to show that almost any one person you meet, no matter how much they help you, it always comes with a price,
what is the price here? the fact that I, for once, felt like i was right to post the things i did, and i thought that most of that was true and DC was helping me to understand the relgion the lore that surrounded dragons, but of course the moment i go agaist what he is saying, he throws me aside like a piece of garbage, not worse than that a lousy piece of S***

and i censored myself, to avoid any further warinings from moderators

Some of the most close minded people I've encountered are those in the true, fanatical believer vein (either believer or debunker). They're the one's who absolutely refuse to acknowledge or consider any other POV other than their own.
And then there's those who are just plain jerks. Check your PM

Yes i did get the PM and thank you, also you make a good point, i claim to have an open mind and yet i fail to see it from a skeptics point of view, and skeptics say that there mind is open but they fail to see it in the way that the believers do isnt ironic?
that we both claim to be the same thing and yet neither of us are... you make a good point, i'll try to see it from both points of view from here on out

thank you

You're welcome
Indeed it is ironic. You should drop in on the ET board sometime to see just how extreme it can get (particularly Hazzard's The Best Evidence for Aliens Visting Earth thread).

You know, I'm starting to see how each of you is correct, and I can see you as a better friend/aquantance/"mentor" than DC, you may not fully believe like i do, but there is some part of you, no matter how much you would hate to admit it, that does believe in a way, each of you has pointed out to him the mistakes he has so gravely made and he has refused to acknowlage them, im not shooting down any of his statments other than the ones where he based me, but DC learn to see it from both points of view, before its too late for you, as it was for me. However now i can see that all of the things you said that looked like you were backing me, you were just backing yourself, you selfish, greedy, stuck up, pathetic excuse for a "mentor" as they so put it DC, you make me ashamed to even know you

btw im allready liking Wraithgods oppions

Reason for edit: Typo

Sorry kid, just because "you like dragons" does not mean I am going to support your ridiculous D&D nonsense. That is even worse than the sceptics who ignore the real dragon evidence. I never considered myself your mentor, nor do I care to be 'scolded' and 'berated' by a child who zero life experience (like most of the little gang you decided to join). Why am I not surprised?

Before it's too late? Why, you are going to set the dragons you create on me? Your'r with your "own kind" now, I am sure you'll be happy.

Draconic Chronicler and Dragon Seeker you've done nothing but insult one another for the last two pages, enough please, a PM is coming your way.

To everyone else, can we please avoid the bickering and attacks and get this back on topic.

Thank you.

for the love of god not another dragon thread..please. i havent been on here for a while been busy with alot of things mainly revision, so im going to read through the thread before i contribute anymore

Don't only think about yourself please, i havn't seen that many of them. I find it worth discussing, we have not come across any bones though, but dragons could still be real in a sense that another animal was thought to be a dragon when it wasn't. The mystery is still here.

I love video games. Never been much of a cartoon fan though, even as a kid I just didn't like cartoons. I prefer The X Files. And movies, I love movies. Good ones, bad ones, most movies are fine by me. I watched Reservoir Dogs last night, it was great. So yes I suppose you could say I havee returned to the forums after a period of enjoying wht you consider to be childish recreation. I just fail to see how it relates to dragons.

I feel that three major areas of though amd opinion are growing here:
1. Dragons are intelligent animals that act as gods over the human race, supported by DC.
2. Dragons are creatures of magic, currently extinct but soon to be ressurected, supported by Dragon Seeker and several others.
3. Dragons/Dragon-like animals may or may not exist or previously existed alongside humans, Archosaur and Otterwynd(?).

The loose fourth is the denial that dragons ever existed or still exist today, which is the majority of these forums. However there are slightly varying degrees of this fourth stance, some might include Archosaur in this group.

I wonder how this will all turn out.

We all know none of this is about dragons anymore - the reason we come to these threads by the dozen is to argue. About anything, usually each other. It seems dragon threads are just an excuse of sorts to break the rules (Not that we all do mind, thats just how it seems) to make our own rules. Eventually dragons are forgetton admist it all.

At one point there were 8 dragon threads on the main page of this board.

[quote name='Undeadskeptic' date='Apr 20 2008, 12:54 PM'

We all know none of this is about dragons anymore - the reason we come to these threads by the dozen is to argue. About anything, usually each other. It seems dragon threads are just an excuse of sorts to break the rules (Not that we all do mind, thats just how it seems) to make our own rules. Eventually dragons are forgetton admist it all.
[/quote]
Dude you just admitted to intenional flamebating thats not smart for someone who got what 4/5 official warnings
Also considering how this section is for Myths and Legends as well dragon disscusion is valid here

I was not saying I come merely to flame or to pick fights, nay I come to debate about dragons (Although yes I have been lead astray by the conversations at times) I was making a generalisation as a sort of wake up call to all of us here just arguing off topic. If we're going to have this many dragon threads at least we could argue about dragons.

Also you have no place to tell me what is and what is not good for me.