Yes, I said that there have already been comics and cartoons that proposed "dragons" were robots piloted by aliens, and this started the dragon legends of our ancestors.

Another twist, and this was a disney comic, was that the dragons themselves were the aliens that came in flying saucers.

I have never 'run' from any question to me here, but some go unnoticed, becasue there are so many, and others are sometimes unworthy of an answer when they are obviously created by hecklers.

You have not made up your mind anyway. One post you say they are all did, and the next you say they're not.


To answer you AGAIN. We do still see them, but people today no longer call them dragons. Half the threads about cryptids are about large creatures that conceivably could be dragons. But if they were just animals, it is impossible for normal sauropods or pterosaurs to elude mankind in the 21st century. Therefore, if the sightings are genuine, intelligent dragons are the only reasonable explanation, something mankind has believed in since the earlies records. And yes, as intelligent creatures they may have killed those that "got too close" and accordingly "knew too much".

Or much more likely people either misidentified or just plain lied.

wrong this says its in revelations.
The Bible mentions a dragon in Revelation chapters 12, 13, 16, and 20. Revelation 20:2 identifies the dragon, “He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.” The Bible is not teaching that dragons ever truly existed. Rather, it is only comparing Satan to a fire-breathing monster.

It is very interesting to note, however, that nearly every major ancient culture has myths and legends about giant reptiles. How would all of these civilizations, continents and millennia apart, all come up with legends of giant reptile creatures? Evolutionary scientists tell us that dinosaurs existed millions of years before human beings. Dinosaur fossils were not discovered until thousands of years after the myths of giants reptiles began. How can this be?

The Bible mentions two creatures that seem remarkably similar to the dinosaurs, the leviathan and behemoth, in Job chapters 40-41. It is the view of Creation scientists that all the “dragon” myths came from real contact between human beings and dinosaurs.

Well at least i have finally gotten my answer thank you

Or maybe people just over exaggerate normal animals. Sightings of large, black cougars on the East Coast are just normal house cats that people THINK are huge when they aren't. Humans don't judge distance or size well at all unless there are landmarks to help judge size. If someone sees a vulture in the air, they could think it was as big as a jetliner. That's just a fault of the human mind. Even on Monster Quest on the History Channel they did a test to see if people could accurately judge the size of a large kite they made in the shape of a bird. I believe the kite was around 25 feet wide, and people said the kite was up to 50 feet wide. No one could guess the actual size of the kite. Therefore, to assume that people who "see" strange animals with no documentation of ANY evidence whatsoever are seeing dragons or dinosaurs is very ignorant. People over exaggerate. That's just the way they are. People could be lying to get attention as well. We CANNOT use personal experiences as evidence, because there is no way to prove if it's real or not.

Its possible that some people have over exaggerated but with all of the "historical claims" i dont think they could all be over exaggerations, i really just don't see how that could be, however on the opposite side of this 2 edged sword

all of these "historical claims" DC has made may not even be true seeing as he sometime forgets to provide a source link.... just saying

Claims are weak and unreliable especially as our brains are inclined to lie to us.
I posted these links in another topic but they are very interesting when it comes to accounts.
Mind Fiction.
Lure of the Paranormal.

Great links Matt.

So called "Creation Scientists" are of such weak faith in their Bible that they ignore the fact that these giant reptiles are actually heavenly creatures called 'dragons' or Seraphim. The Bible says the leviathan spews fire from its mouth, it is not a dinosaur, it is a dragon. The bible says no human weapon can harm it. Could a sword hurt a dinosaur? Yes, but Leviathan and other 'dragons" are heavenly creatures.

I say we give DC one chance, one true chance, to prove his views to us... with sources (and no saying "I've quoted all these sources in the past") I want to see real evidence, hard core proof, not fairy tales and mythology... Speak Your Case DC....

Good luck with that. He has been questioned many times for a few years on here, and there is no absolutes
on the matters of this subject. It usually ends up as a philisophical debate on whether they exist or not.

dud ei gave you proof i tell you what provide links then i would belive you but your freaking wrong the bible never said that i think they translated it for a way you like

show me a bible quote(list chapters) that says that

Job 41

1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

I bolded parts that show the leviathan as appearing invincible and breaths fire. People exaggerate though, thats common knowledge.

dude this isnt in any bible i have read except one and it wasnt the christan or catholic bible it was an idealistic bible. other words not origanal scripture thses verses where changed

1 "Can you pull in the leviathan [a] with a fishhook
or tie down his tongue with a rope?

2 Can you put a cord through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?

3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?

4 Will he make an agreement with you
for you to take him as your slave for life?

5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird
or put him on a leash for your girls?

6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?

7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?

8 If you lay a hand on him,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!

9 Any hope of subduing him is false;
the mere sight of him is overpowering.

10 No one is fierce enough to rouse him.
Who then is able to stand against me?

11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 "I will not fail to speak of his limbs,
his strength and his graceful form.

13 Who can strip off his outer coat?
Who would approach him with a bridle?

14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth,
ringed about with his fearsome teeth?

15 His back has [b] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;

16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.

17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.

18 His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.

19 Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.

20 Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

22 Strength resides in his neck;
dismay goes before him.

23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.

24 His chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.

25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before his thrashing.

26 The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

27 Iron he treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.

28 Arrows do not make him flee;
slingstones are like chaff to him.

29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw;
he laughs at the rattling of the lance.

30 His undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.

31 He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.

33 Nothing on earth is his equal—
a creature without fear.

34 He looks down on all that are haughty;
he is king over all that are proud."
there are differances but an explination is that it represtnted the devil

You need to elaborate further. Possibly notate the original message, and from what book/bible.

I found these passages in the KJV Bible, Book of Job.

Job 41:1-9 An awesome amphibious creature is Leviathan, unique in the creation of God. Can Job harness him? God wants to know. "Touch him once and you'll never try it again; you will never forget the fight" (v. 8 TEV). The term Leviathan in ancient Canaanite literature referred to "a seven-headed sea dragon," but as some scholars note, this does not prove that Leviathan is still a mythological monster in the great poem of Job.

In English we use words like Thursday, January, and hell with no belief whatever in the pagan literary origins of the words themselves. Usage must determine meaning, and here God clearly challenges Job to consider a real creature, even if we can't be positive today which one it was. A popular choice is the Nile crocodile, and several parts of the description do fit that reptile well.

While the behemoth is primarily a land creature, Leviathan is primarily aquatic. Man cannot catch him with hook and line. Or domesticate him or make him a family pet. He is not considered a banquet delicacy. His armor-like exterior resists harpoons and spears, and the sight of him discourages meddling with him.

Job 41:10, 11 God interrupts the description to ask a pertinent question: If men stand in such awe of a mere creature, how much more should they fear Him who created the creature, who is eternal, who is obligated to no one, and who is Owner and Creator of all?

Here indeed is the point of the passage: Job is to discover from his inability to vanquish even a fellow creature the folly of aspiring to the Creator's throne.

Job 41:12-34 Back to Leviathan. His build is massive and his mighty power is enormous. His hide is a tough, protective covering. He cannot be bridled. His mouth and teeth are viselike. His skin and scales resemble armor with overlapping plates. In poetic terms, the Lord describes his sneezes, eyes, mouth, and nostrils as terrifying when he is aroused. Leviathan's strength is tremendous and his flesh compacted. While he himself is fearless, he fills the stoutest hearts with fear as he thrashes around, and normal weapons bounce off his hide. When he crawls through the mud, he leaves a trail of pointed marks, as if his underside was broken glass. He whips the water into a boiling pot, leaving a white phosphorescent wake. Even making ample allowance for the Oriental use of great poetic exaggeration (hyperbole), it is hard to see how even the largest crocodile could be called "king over all the children of pride."

The descriptions of the wild animals and possibly dinosaurs in these chapters reflect the glory, power, and majesty of God Himself. They are His creation, and He purposely uses them to illustrate His own splendor and strength.

Therefore, it is not surprising that He begins with harmless creatures such as the deer and the raven and gradually increases in size to the greatest of all creatures, the behemoth on land, and the king of all beasts—Leviathan of the sea, which was unbelievably awesome in its reputation.

Edit: Double post.

Most of the legands about Leviathan i know either refer to him as a giant whale, or a massive sea serpent, with no cababilty of breathing fire

and then there is what games have gone and done for example



now here is another image i found (that came up in the same search)



now what is the differnce?

One is more likely factual the other fiction

now as for the myths and legands that surround him i'd like to know, if anybody knows of a topic about the Leviathan i'd appreciate it thank you

18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

So we have fire breath, and a possible allusion to supernatural sight. While there are no references to limbs of wings, we at least appear to have a fire-breathing drakon. The earlier passages mocking attempts to make the creature gentle seem to imply that God can and does so. It seems unclear from this poem weather this creature is considered in opposition to God, or subservient.

Leviatheon and Levent, Leventine, and the Tribes of Levi, have a similar word root-origin. As I am not a Hebrew linguist I cannot go further with this, but would love to hear feedback on this subject.

Well thank you for pointing a few things out but im pretty shure there is a topic about it somewhere.... and if not then i'll make a topic about it because it sounds very interesting to me

Seriously, some of you guys need to take a step back, look in the mirror, and realize that the person you see is arguing for the existence of dragons. DRAGONS!

Its arguments and ideas like these that destroy the credibility of this field in the minds of many people both inside and outside the scientific community. Its tragic that a few incoherent and illogical ideas color public opinion on so many other plausible theories put forth by reasonable people. Yet, "this is the business we've chosen", and so long as they have a public forum, the cockamamie few will continue to make real progress hard for the many...

You were wrong. It IS in the Bible, and you really should credit your sources. For someone who knew so little about the Bible as to claim the Leviathan passage is not in the bible, you COULD NOT have wrote the passage above.

I do agree with this writer, that the Leviathan is too awesome to be a mere crocodile. It actually describes the attributes given to Yahweh in the Bible (spewing fire from his mouth and smoke from his nostrils), and the original Yaw in cannanite theology who has the IDENTICAL father, consort and enemy as Yahweh in the Bible, happens to be a water dragon. This is why Yahweh is credited with flooding the earth as well.

The Leviathan IS Yahweh's earthly form, and why he is fed mass quantities of domestic animals, first born children (or given a ransom in silver), and in one case, given 32 Midianite virgins. Its all in the Bible, just like the Leviathan ode you claimed wasn't.

Actually you have got it all backwards. If the large reptilian cryptids reported all over the word WERE NOT dragons, but mere, walnut brained animals, science would have had to have detected them by now.

So they are either dragons, or pure imagination......... BUT if they were only imagination it is odd that they have been declared real creatures since man first wrote down words, and much, much longer judging from prehistoric rock art.

Don't worry. If we are ever able to caputeireture a superior life form that we once worshipped as gods, I am sure scientists will call it ANYTHING but a dragon, because that would be "silly" wouldn't it?

You claim dragons destroy the credibility of cryptozoology when we have threads here about fairies, werewolves, mothmen, etc? You are you trying to kid? Dragons have been, and always will be the worlds most believed in Cryptid. A large number of people, billions in fact, all around the world are still worshipping a Canannite water dragon that the bible says has wings, breathes fire and is given virgin offerings.

dude i did say it was sorced i know the guy who wrote this on google answers

i said i would find quotes and i did more then you can do every knows i dont write like this

"God clearly challenges Job to consider a real creature, even if we can't be positive today which one it was. A popular choice is the Nile crocodile, and several parts of the description do fit that reptile well."
so a: you belive in god
b: this wasnt in origanal text this was in new aged christan bible the one i said i found and did say it was in one bible i read just one and just fyi. this means to prove your point you nee sites at least i give them ok? you never give crap. maybe if you prove god exists ill belive you because then it would make sense...oh by the way a bible from 1550 has no job 41 here is the link http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...amp;version=69;
so like i said not all bibles have it and the early ones dont. most of the bible is made up eaither way. can you prove adam and eve? how about noah? or the boy who fell from 9 stories crakced his head open and was ressereccted? no you cant you cant prove it and thats the thing.
also like i said if it was there its dead gone and was evil.
"The word "Leviathan" appears in five places in the Bible, with the Book of Job, chapter 41, being dedicated to describing Leviathan in detail:

Book of Job 3:8 "May those who curse days curse that day, those who are ready to rouse Leviathan "; NIV
Book of Job 41:1-34: "Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?...He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride." KJV (quoted 1 and 34 only)
Psalms 74:14: "Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness." KJV
Psalms 104:24,25: "O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches. So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts." KJV;
Isaiah 27:1: "In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea." KJV
The word Leviathan is also mentioned in Rashi's commentary on Genesis 1:21: "God created the great sea monsters - Taninim." Jastrow translates the word "Taninim" as "sea monsters, crocodiles or large snakes". Rashi comments: "According to legend this refers to the Leviathan and its mate. God created a male and female Leviathan, then killed the female and salted it for the righteous, for if the Leviathans were to procreate the world could not stand before them.""- yay wikapedia

My question is, where in there does it refer to leviathon as a serpent/reptile/dragon?? It is simply describing a creature, and gives no details on any physical attributes of a reptile. From what I always understood, Leviathon was the name of a demon. Could this passage not be describing a demon??

Now that i have never heard, all of the things that revolve around levaithan i know, refers to it being a massive creature that lives in the sea, but you also make a good point, it could be describing a demon, can you quote your sorces where you came to the conclusion that Leviathon is a demons name? please do so, im interested

it is a demond i posted the links sites and prases in the bible where it says this

Ah yes, then i guess that sort of looks foolish, and i opologize but still the topic is interesting to me, does anybody know of any topics on the forum dealing with Leviathan?

well it is known as a demond and as a mythical creature some think is in loch ness

Here my friend: Search Results

"So they are either dragons, or pure imagination......... BUT if they were only imagination it is odd that they have been declared real creatures since man first wrote down words, and much, much longer judging from prehistoric rock art."

"You claim dragons destroy the credibility of cryptozoology when we have threads here about fairies, werewolves, mothmen, etc? You are you trying to kid? Dragons have been, and always will be the worlds most believed in Cryptid. A large number of people, billions in fact, all around the world are still worshipping a Canannite water dragon that the bible says has wings, breathes fire and is given virgin offerings."



So, you're trying to rationalize your belief in the current existence of dragons by pointing to the myths and superstitions of ancient man? Sounds reasonable to me...

Go back and read my post, I didn't confine my criticism to beliefs in dragons. Obviously, belief in werewolves et al is totally absurd and has no basis in any form of scientific evidence whatsoever. The last part of your post is a perfect illustration of my previous point about why people dont take cryptozoology seriously. Within this very forum, full of people who believe or want to believe in cryptids, your ideas are recognized as delusional. If you cant convince the people in here, good luck convincing anyone outside of here.

??? who was that 2?? oh and yeah werewolves may not be real but nether may dragons its not that i dont belive i just dont think they have to do with religon except as a sighn of the devil

also in russia germany MIchigan andmost of europe people belive in vampiers witches and most of all werewolves

it was to DC

o ok cool then lol im like wait but i give resources! lol

yeah sorry for the confusion

dragons are only tied to cryptids cause of "sea serpents"

are they the source of dragon myths ? gotta clean sea serpents up first.

Witches are real. I'm one. It's part of Pagan religious beliefs (most commonly Wicca) NOT some Satan worshipping, baby sacrificing demon as the church has made them out to be. We're not evil, the church just doesn't want competition. And yes, vampires and werewolves are still believed in today in some areas of Europe.

EDIT: Nevermind.

THANK YOU!

No, i dont thank him

You see the way that i see it, is that Dragons at one point in time did exsist and when i had first posted this topic thought they were possible today, and i wanted to know if anybody had a religion based around dragons

now that being said to get back on topic

Who else has an oppion?

What possible reasonable basis can you have for this belief?

Also, if you want a religion based on dragons, you could always take the L. Ron Hubbard approach and create your own religion based on dragons. So long as you live in the Western world, there is little anyone could do to stop you. I think you'd have a fairly good possibility of attracting converts, judging by the amount of believers in this forum alone.

There is already three major religons based on a dragon. His story is told in detail in the Old Testament. Despite his clear description, as a winged, fire spewing creature that eats lambs, calves and virgin offerings, and ordered the building of a flying serpent idol, most of his worshippers have forgotten he is a dragon.

And of course, virtually every other religion has dragons in them as well.

Bull Crap

Now DC, i'd like you to prove that

I think it is purely DCs interpretation and opinion.

It can just as easily be said that the ancient people mistook the humanoid angels for dragons. Simply because they appeared with wings and were haloed in flame like light that the "primitive" peoples thought of them as otherworldly and they feared them, so they portrayed them as monsters in their texts. Then latter when more study and meditation was done on the subject, it was found that they were indeed humanoid and so the newer texts and teachings were changed to reflect this new truth.

See how easy it is to refute the basis of DCs arguement? Simply take his arguement that the later peoples changed their teachings and text due to fear, so that the earlier peoples were the ones who were mistaken and his arguement loses a lot of its power.