Ya i guess we better before we get warned by Samuran

or a mod

and i too Await his post

I'm a dragon

thats a good one

DC....did you miss or ignore this?


Boss man asked you a direct question.

Again another question DC doges what do you know

Not about to hold my breath......

Maybe he is busy making a booklist for me to read.

Yes but the sorce wasnt credit able nor do i think they even ment that to be real because your sorce didnt even give evidance like you it was all talk

Ahah! So you are here to try and throw us mortals off your trail and make us think you don't exist. I knew it.

From what I can tell DC is referencing the Legenda sanctorum, now known as Legenda aurea (the golden legend), by Jacopo da Varagine, which has been dismissed as being an embellished hagiography . The pope DC talks about is Pope S. Silvester who reigned between 31 January 314 to 31 December 335.


Here is an excerpt from Legenda aurea about S. Silvester.



Reference: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/golde...2.htm#Silvester

ok so the point that he was making? i was referring to how he said the pope still owns a dragon

Sorry about that Weregirl,

According to this book, it only says that S. Silvester tied the dragons mouth shut with thread and sealed it with an image of a cross. If that is the case then there could still be a dragon in Rome, if it didn't starve to death.

As I did point out though, this book was dismissed as being an embellished and fanciful hagiography.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion from my original post.

I've always interpreted that he states as fact that people believed in, and worshiped dragons. That he states as conjecture (and his personal belief) that dragons were real, in some fashion.

PS. DragonSeeker, I've always perferred Bahamut Zero to Neo-Bahamut:

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Trufully i have too always thought he was better looking

and DC does in a way provide how he thinks dragons could be real today, but now my mind is almost clear set, today they are non-exsistant other than Komododragons and in mythology, however i do still say that they did possibly exsist however i have yet to prove this

I suspected the Golden Legend may have been the source, though the way Hogarth described it, it seemed to suggest that "the Pope" deliberately fed it all of those people. Technically, though, one could say Hogarth was correct and that "the Pope kept a dragon in Rome" from that account.

This story makes more sense if you understood the now little known Christian concept that enormous dragons will devour all of the wicked on Judgement day, deduced from scripture such as the Apocolypse of Baruch and I Enoch. In fact, the Pope in 1000 AD was sainted because he convinced God not to "release the dragons" becasue it was believed judgement day would happen on jan 1st 1000 AD. Sound familiar?

So based on Christian doctrine, the dragon is still waiting in the pit to be unleased un judgment day to devour sinners. This was a common motiff sculped on most medieval churches with angels helping to herd the sinners into the mouth of the dragon. Fun stuff!

Be careful DS. You grievously insult the real dragons in your apparent belief that mere humans of the Medieval era could have killed them.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it said that the apocalypse was supposed to be the world ingulfed in flames not eaten by dragons?

(that's what I was told anyway)

In more recent times, Christians of little faith have toned down the "attack dragons" because most people no longer believe in them. But yes, up until the last hundred years it was common knowledge God would "release the dragons". In Revelation the dragons are somewhat disguised as horse like fire breathing monsters with tails like snakes that will destroy One third of the human population. But the Jews also acknowledge would devouring dragons in their scriptures. But in the original version, they are just "dragons".

you better watch it. thats not an insult if they are real then people can kill them. there are paintings of it and thats more evidace then you give

DS, you might be assasinated by... a dragon?

Unrelated: Draconic Chronicler gets DC, Dragon Seeker gets DS, why can't my name be abbreviated?

US? OR UDS?

UDS sounds catchy

ok UDS it is

Awesome! hank you Weregirl666, or should I say,

WG666?

lol or WG? lol

Or even, if you were feeling alittle bit sci-fi, WG - SixSix6

so how did this all start?

No, another function of dragons various culturrs including Christianity is consuming/destroying the wicked. Virtually every church in Europe once portrayed this event. For people already dead, this would imply their soulds are consumed. This may be partly the origin of the notion dragons are so "wise", by retaining the knowledge of the souls they consume.

If true, it would not be a good idea to anger them.

The lack of any 'trophies' of dragon parts preserved in churches or royal collections strongly suggest all reports of dragons being killed by man are fabrications. Such items would have been worth their weight in gold, and there are examples of fake and fossil remains being passed of as dragon trophies.

Common sense should also dictate that humans with metal weapons could not kill a dragon larger than 15 feet long. Intelligence combined with a flying, armored predator would be literally unstoppable before the invention of modern weapons.

Um, excuse me for breaking up anything here. But can someone perhaps give me a quick summery and what's happened so far and now? Also, they probably didn't keep any trophies from the dragons slain, if any. Forgive me DC. It was probably best to kill them leave them, one less dragon to worry about. Sure, before the creation of weapons dragons were something to be feared. But as time went on and people began making weapons, think about it, it could very well have been possibly to kill a dragon. And were dragons passing knowledge unto the humans, they are responsible for giving us the knowledge to make said weapons.

And if dragons did not consume humans, why would they consume humans who did horrible acts? Why not just leave us humans to our selves to deal with our problems but instead, step in, cause a panic and thus bring about their own end? gods or not, one has to wonder if the reason dragons have either all died out somehow, never existed or are in hiding, is because they basically killed themselves by doing what they've done.

It's the same with our gods, like Vishnu, Ra, Anubis, Jehova, and whatever other being. They rarely do anything to help us, so we do not fear and continue to believe. I think, quite possibly. Were we to actually see our gods and be able to interact with them as we did with dragons, we would kill them as well for power, end of the world or not. Think about that for a while.

We don't see our gods, we believe in them and thus, worship them. If what DC said is all true, then we see dragons, we killed them when we could make weapons. tables have turned somewhere. And if they were smart, they'd leave us alone, and if Nessie was, then she wouldn't get seen and go out at night.

And as I seem to recall, dragons are usually depicted with rough scales, but what of their soft undersides? Flying would be a disadvantage as well, because if they didn't have armor or scales there, then they'd be an easier target. Then they'd have to attack at which point, they wouldn't be gods, they'd be beasts driven by survival instinct. If they did have scales on their undersides, okay, easy. find a way to get the scales off, or get some kind of weapon through them, bam, dead. Good shot? aim for the eyes, bomb down the throat. many way to kill things said to be unkillable. But that's only what I think.

Your notion about not saving dragon remains if they killed one falls apart, becasue like I said, FAKE or FOSSIL remains were extremely valuable, and certain churches that had them became rich from all the people coming to see them, like the prehistoric rhino skull in Klagenfurt. Ah, but you have no idea what I am talking about. Long story short, proof like this shows that the remains of any real dragon would have been as valuable then as they would be today.

Common sense also suggests humans before modern times would not be capable of killing large intelligent dragons with weapons of those times. People lied about it because nothing could have ben a greater feat for a single man to do, but of course, there is no evidence anyone could. If humans presented any threat the dragons could stay out of range. With superb senses of smell and sight, no human could ever get close enough to harm them, yet they could kill humans with impunity on dark nights when people couldn't see. But dragons were not afriad of men in ancient times. They seem to have raised us like flocks of sheep, which is why dragons gods were called "good shepherds".
If 'souls' are real, or whatever 'ghosts' are supposed to be, maybe the only thing that could 'consume' it, would be the sould of a larger animal. I am not making these things up, I am simply making observations based on the ancient beliefs.

Yeah, but before, somewhere else, didn't you say that dragons didn't eat people at all? Everytime I see you, everything changes from something else to something else. There was a time when i did respect you, but now you sound even crazier then I do most of the time. First it was "Dragons don't eat people" Now it's "Dragons ate criminals" or "Dragons raised us as sheep" make up you're mind DC! Did they eat people or not? And quite honestly, other then arguing so childishly about how they existed, how about posting a few links as well to show us otherwise, show us actual proof other then word of mouth.

I mean honestly, if dragons did exist, we'd have found fossils, horns, scales, whatever. Yet we find nothing. Now, forgive me everyone for all of this. But honestly, I like and want to believe Dragons are real too, but I know when everything is just fantasy and stories sang by bards of old and story tellers of centuries past to entertain us or frighten us for whatever reason. yes, nothing could possibly have killed a dragon then, but now, I mean honestly. if dragons wanted too, they could easily over-take us and rule this world with an iron claw.

The reason they haven't? Well I believe I have pointed out the reasons. And DC, for the love of whatever god or being that watches over us, stop making your claims so ridicules and every hole in your theories so obvious. The only thing you do is make yourself look like a fool. I am not flaming you, but please, for the unholy beings. Stop being so arrogant and learn to respect other people who think otherwise. That is what they think, not what should affect you unless you want to believe so strongly in a fantasy where that is the only way you can make these beings real.

I could put up with you before, because well..."Okay, good for him if that's what he thinks. Go DC" I said before, but now as I see you exploding on people with insults such as pathetic, peasant, ignorant, poopy-head...Put the games and books down DC, think before you say. realize, that an opinion does not affect you, a simple. "Well I believe otherwise but I won't argue with you about it." is all you need to say...you look like less of ass and more like a reasonable adult...

I am 18...I am reasonable..I don't care what you think, but when you go into hour long explanations, and then when they don't agree, you turn into an ass...that just gets me the wrong way...

Now, to make up for all that and be the bigger man and walking away from this now.

If there are so many dragon religions in this day and age, and I'm sure there are still plenty. What do they have for holidays related to dragons? Now i'm not sure this counts or not, but do they have dragon related easters too? Like...find the multi-colored dragon egg or..?

I never said "dragons didn't eat people". You will never find that any of my posts. This is a universal characteristic, and probably the greatest dragon incentive for their civilizing endeavors.

You also apparently don't understand what is meant by dragon related religions. If Yahweh is the canaanite storm dragon Yaw, and the evidence is quite overwhelming, then technically, all of the religions that stem from the Bible are in fact "dragon-related religions. In fact, virtually every religion I can think of is connected with dragons as well, with the exception of modern, new age "out space alien related religons.

As several of the more responsible people here have pointed out, I get along fine here with others until they begin insulting me first

Interesting points, Vince. I must disagree, that if a dragon was killed, then or today, the hunters would most certainly take all or some of the carcass as a trophy. Even whan dealing only with dangerous predators, mankind has always taken such trophies. Even with other human beings, weapons, clothing or even parts of remains used to be commonly taken as "war trophies" in battle (this is illegal in both international and US law, but still happens, from time to time).

As to weather modern weapons could kill a giant reptile, I haven't seen anyone disagree with the idea. Indeed, DC has said that that was a principal reason for them to hide, today.

There is an irony to the idea of creatures giving mankind the knowledge, technology, and organization to subsequently wipe them out of existence. Indeed, I concur that if mankind were to meet their ancient "gods" or angels, or whatever, and it were in the power of mankind to destroy them, they most likely would. I doubt past offenses would be the main motive, simply pride, a necessity to see humanity at the pinnacle of creation.

But we shouldn't judge such hypothetical "god" too harshly, after all, is not mankind not in a technology race to create (either through genetics or computer -science) the next set of beings, subservient to our will? What powers and abilities will we give them, and how shall they be treated?

Too true, though I was either hopped up on coffee or still half asleep when I posted, now. Yes I think we would have trophies of some kind somewhere, though without. I do believe if such creatures existed, they would hide after they realized "Oh no, what have we done?!" though there is still the possibility they never did in the first place. I'm not trying to tell people they did or didn't. But that is what I believe until the world ends. Then I'll believe in whatever.

Though mankind is an unpredictable creature with beings obsessed with power that they WOULD create beings even stronger then themselves through any means in the future. And those beings would do the same thing just as we did hundreds of thousands of millions of years before. It will be a never ending circle of destruction. Mind you we may not do it now but we will do it someday. Things made for war with the abilities to destroy entire countries with only 20 or so of these things we made. If these gods did make us and left us to ourselves, then it is our fault it will happen.

If gods made us and gave unto to us the knowledge we have before, such as teaching or telling us. Then we both share the blame, because they gave us the knowledge, we had the means. Now they hide from us because of what they told us and what we did. So let's hope the next batch of beings re-created once every other living human on earth is dead, they don't make the same mistake twice.

Well at least things didnt get out of hand while i was gone

You make some very interseting points there VincentHunter, there all quite logical and would make sense

any other theories?

I have a theory. Dragons never existed. Hey, that's the right theory!

But then there wouldn't be the God of three of the world's great religions. Over two billion combined believers versus a handful of naysayers? Who are you trying to kid?

I am not trying to kid anyone. I would love to ask you the same question, as you have not once in my time here convinced a single person of your theories so DC, who are you trying to kid?

DC i find this as hard as you do however i agree with that statement but in retrospect



I too agree with you UDS (happy?) because DC is one of the biggest posters of "theories" so to speak but who is to say which is true and which is not?

or perhaps there all true and on the other hand perhaps there all false however 1 thing can be certain

So long as there are people who believe, dragons shall eternaly live

Well, there are stories where deities turn into dragons for various reasons and there is at least dragons referenced with Vahagn.

Just some more religious dragon references.

Hi, can anybody tell me who this is, and why its relevant?



(and dont cheat)

I can almost guarantee that Rosanne Barr is not in the title. I may be wrong though.

Yes, this is probably why we still see the dragons today, though only fleetinig glimpses in the deepest lakes and oceans. They are waiting in case they are needed again. Its their job.

So we blast ourselves into the stoneage in a nuclear war, the dragons will probably appear to us again, and become mankind's gods and shepherds. It is interesting that reptiles thrive with no apparent problems on nuclear test sites where the radiation is deadly to mammals.

Or maybe they will appear again to make sure any survivors all die, and will give some other species their chance since we 'blew it'..

A first impression without going to any sources suggests this may be a fragment of Lacoon wihtout the serpents.

This is an important incident in the Trojan war Illiad, that explained why the Trojans allowed the horse into their city, even though this seems ridiculous to us today, without checking it out first. This is because this part is usually left out of the modern retellings because it is about dragons, and omitted becasue there is less belief in dragons today.

Basically, Lacoon is a trojan priest that tries to warn his people that the Horse is a trick, but huge serpents or dragons (depending on the version), come out of the sea and swallow him and his sons. The people believe the gods sent the giant reptiles (since they were gods as well), to punish Lacoon for his impiety, and for this reason, allowed the horse into the city without any investigation.

See how much more sense history makes when we know there were dragons? The Trojan War appears to have been instigated by these creatures as I will explain, though in the later retellings, like so many other religious figures, the original dragon gods have been 'morphed' into humanoid ones by their worhsippers.

sorry DC no cigar.

not sure i agree with your interpretation of the illiad either....they werent gods sent against laocoon....but you can believe what you wish. ill not get into an argument about this point.

im more interested in the statue ... any other ideas of who is being represented and why its relevant to the thread of Dragonic Religions?

there is not 'grand insight' to be found, i just thought others would find it as interesting as me.

DC here's the statue you mean? laocoon and his sons being attacked ....




perhaps if i showed the first statue from another angle it may help deduction....
but before i do, what do we see in the picture?...what appears to be shown?

dont be afraid to have a pop at it....noone will be ridiculed for saying stuff like, a naked bloke with a girl etc....
look closely.

Only in the imaginations of children.

Well, theres something behind the naked bloke, all I can see is a tail and leg so maybe a puppy? Or is it like a little gargoyle thingy? Or dare I say it a dragon?

...sorry, heres the statue from another angle...

it may make identification easier.