when i was young, my facination with dragons got my a nickname around my genre of kids as the "dragon keeper". i played with this fact even on other games like D&D and other make beleive games. but i still dont believed they could exist. im just stressing the fact that how much i love dragons. but i do not beleive it would be posible for them to exist.

why did you wake a dead thread?

some one (i believe it was Undeadskpetic) gave me some advice before

Leave dead topics to rest in peace

If a dragon was hurried or being too cocky, then it is possible for one's cover to "slip" which would explain the small amount of sightings.


Also, kidchaos, you should check out the show on animal planet "Dragons - a Fantasy Made Real". You said that the structure of a dragon could not support flight, but many scientists have proven that they could.

My dead topic is a zombie! It's back! Aaaaah!

I wasn't trying to be convincing. I was just documenting what I saw, and I was trying to do it bluntly without dressing it up with facts to make it sound more dragon-like. I didn't want to jump to the conclusion it was a dragon, I wanted people's opinions and whether they thought that it was or wasn't a dragon. Part of me hopes its a dragon, and I'm glad you believe they exist.

You mentioned bones have been found to prove that, I was wondering what those were?

That too i'd like to know

I'm sure there is a much more logical and simple explanation for the lack of dragon sightings...

We all know how to deal with zombies.

we shure do and a little salt never hurt any

Erm TV documentary is not science and because they say it could on one bears no reference to real science.

You do make a point there

That seems rather small. The Golden Eagles I see around here are much much larger. I'd say a wingspan of around 8 feet or so.

an excellent point sir! kudos.

People have actually done research and constructed models and simulations to find that a dragon could exist, be able to fly, and breath fire.



Hahahaa, this is my choice against a zombie....

Right well then it is true though, TV and REAL science togeather that is a laugh




and Chainsaws work too

and yes they have done so, as a matter of fact im shure there are at least one or 2 universitys that have done so

i know im new but the thing is i have seen a few things in my local area that would support the finding's of dragons the thing is i stood downwind from one and yea it didnt see me as a threat at all...

I'm sure you did

Dragons don't exist, and we all agree that this was a large bird, not a dragon. Game over.

"Not so fast there sam!"

*Gasp!* It's the legions of dragon believrs on this board, they're devouring my brain! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

Anyway, what I'm saying is we have discussed the dragon topic over and over and have decided, the majority of us have decided, that dragons do NOT exist. Can't we let it rest? I'll make a poll...

I don't think that anybody would love dragons to exist more than me. But honestly...they just don't. They're too big, too obvious to hide for so long. Yes, research has been done to establish that they COULD have existed biologically. That's all well and good. However, something of that size would take TONNES of food to keep itself going. We, as humans, would notice the loss.
Sorry. Dragon's don't exist. You probably saw a Golden Eagle, who's wingspan can reach up to a little over two meters (that's about seven feet for Americans).

im thinking cause dragons dont exist, you mighta seen a condor?
http://cres.sandiegozoo.org/images/condor_compare_chart.jpg
pretty darn large. if not the biggest bid, although i could be mistaken. i thought there was another one

hmmm...yes, i see.
nice contribution

sooooo, how do you know that? do you just make it up? and say this is how dragons talk?
seems like the only way to me. unless you know another way

no, it couldnt have.



lmfao
im guessing youre 6 years old, or just like to lie.



yes, because theyre fictional creatures from stories.

Many dragon legends have them dwelling in the sea, where there is plenty to eat. J. Cousteau once said Sperm Whales eat a biomass as big as the human race each year, (though this was in the 1970's. Many of the sea serpent reports are very similar to depictions of dragons. Whales are quite intellgent, and many legends speak of dragons more intelligent than humans. so such intelligent creatures could easily avoid man....... or sink dozens of ships and devour their crews and get away with mankind being none the wiser.

how old are you?
and no, you dont have Anything that would support the existance of dragons, otherwise you would have posted it on here.
no one will take your 'account' as evidence, or as reality.

I never actually understood why people insist that dragons exist. . .I mean, to me, they sound like dinosaurs. . .And it would make logical sense that if people from way back in the day found dinosaur bones, they would try and give such a creature a name and description and add it to their stories. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have sat back and thought. . "Hmm. . .These bones seem to have come from X years ago which means that they're likely extinct." They might very well assume that the bones belonged to a creature that was still roaming.

And you can't really use old stories as support. . I don't see any of us out looking for Grendel's cousin. . . Though I'm sure there's a few out there that are. . .

Well said, very logical.

For a race of aquatic dragons to exist that are more intelligent than human beings, they would have to exist far deeper than our sonar and whatnot can probe. We'd notice them otherwise. And if that was the case, coming up to the surface would be tough for them due to decompression.
Also, they would leave corpses similar to Whale Falls (Dragons Falls, if you will), and we'd have found some sort of evidence of them.
They could live in ridiculously deep trenches, sure, fine. But in that case, then they would never be seen by humans.
Dragons don't exist.

Edit: I'd provide a link to Whale Falls but I don't know how to add a link in here. Could anyone help me out with that?

There are scientists that firmly believe Caddie exists, and this is a creature seen hundreds of times in coastal waters. Where do you get the idea every square inch of the ocean is being bombarded by sonar? Our ancestors generally believed these creatures were intelligent, and if intelligent and if they wanted to avoid humans in our noisy ships they would have no problem doing so. As for no bodies, they may deliberately sink them, eat them, or may have extraordinarily long life spans as human legends also attests.

If you were more familar with the subject you would know that dragon sightings were often from contemporary accounts, where many people saw the same creatures. It is a modern cop out, to say, "they saw old bones and invented dragons". Virtually everbody around the world believed dragons were living creatues, and constantly seen right up until the 16th - 17th century, when improved firearms seem to have induced dragons to retreat into inaccessible deep lakes and the ocean, where they CONTINUE to be seen, but no longer called dragons.

I hardly think the beliefs of a handfull of mostly teenagers here who do not believe dragons could exist is reason to not discuss the world's most believed in cryptic animal. And I seem to recall you believing in the possible existence of a certain, Maori dragon-like reptile, that according to native legend was intelligent, protected its adopted tribe, but zealously inforced religious taboos.

So what's the deal, only Maori "dragons" are real? I think it more likely that everyone's dragon legends have some kernel of truth behind them.

Yeah, but fairies, giants, mermaids, and a whole host of other things were also "seen all the time". Do you believe in all of them as well? And it usually ends up being a perfectly normal animals just misidentified. And saying that an air breathing land living animal retreated to the depths of the oceans seems to be a bit of an assumption. . .neither evolution or biology works that way. Unless you assume dragons have magical powers or something. . .

I live in Victoria British Columbia, home of "Caddy", as you say, and my father has seen what he believes is the Cadborosaurus several times. As have many people who live on the island.
Moving on.

I never said every inch of the ocean was blasted with sonar. However, something as undoubtedly fantastic as a dragon would be noticeable, since if we follow what our ancestors generally believed then dragons are massive beasts of immense sizes. And what makes you think that intelligence means easy dodging of sonar? Nothing that our ancestors generally believed states that dragons could detect and dodge ultra or supersonic waves.
And even if they did have immense lifespans, there would still be bodies. And that deep down, there is still the problem of little life. Stuff decomposes for CENTURIES. Even one corpse would last for ridiculous amounts of time, an Oases of life (microbes and whatnot feeding on it) in the Abyss of the deepest depths.

Edit: Insulting the age of those involved in this discussion does not help your case. To assume the opinion of one younger than yourself is inferior is not the way to conduct a debate. With the same logic, we could say that to consider the opinion of you, a dragon believer, is not valid because your eyes are blinded by false hope. It makes just about as much sense.

No those imaginary creatures were not seen all the time and in every human culture as dragons were. Dragons appeared in Scientific treatises up until the 1700s when they made themselves scarce. Also dragons remain relatively uniform in cultures for thousands of years and all over the world. You cannot say that for your fairies and mermaids.

Dragons appear in the theologies of probably 3/4ths of the world population. Fairies and mermaids do not, and we know giantism is quite real though rare.

It was our ancient ancestors who claimed these creatures were intelligent and seen all over the world. Creatures that may have been sentient for 100 million years may indeed have abilities we cannot comprehend yet, but you can call it "magic" if you like. ESP is not "magic".

Caddy looks very much like an oriental dragon, and may in fact be the same creature. If they are rare to begin with, you may never find a corpse, especially if the creatures are sentient and don't want us to know of their existence.

The point about particular teenagers is that they have the gall to claim they speak for the whole UM community, which they do not, and also go out of their way to disrupt any threads they do not like. This paritcular thread title had the word "dragon" in it. So if this bothers him so much, the logical solution would be to NOT read the thread.

Er. . .actually fairies/elves are present in alot of folklore from that time period. I'm not going to argue with you. . I've been warned against that from someone that's more familiar with your posts than me. . .

I think it'd be alot more plausible to believe that "lake monsters" and "ocean serpents" are living dinosaurs instead of dragons. . . Even that's a bit of a stretch, but its more rational. But I suppose there are zoologists that are on UM, and I'm sure they've given you the whole debate about why dragon's couldn't exist. . .and if you don't believe them I'm sure my humble opinion doesn't matter much. I hope you don't believe the whole "breathing fire" thing at least. . .

Sorry but anthropologists have shown that virtually every human culture had dragons, and there is no evidence like that for fairies and elves. YOu are only deluding yourself if you think so.

Actually, several scientists have come up with plausible ways a dragon could spew fire. It is probably no more extraordinary than an electric eel. And there is nothing extraordinary about a sentient dragon requesting alchohol and then making a fire breathing demonstration as any human can also do.

And no, nobody has provided evidence that dragons "couldn't exist". The historical accounts tell us just the opposite.

And no, it is far more plausible that lake monsters ARE sentient dragons, than walnut brained dinos, otherwise we would have caught them by now.

I never said I believed in Taniwha because I don't. DO YOU UNDERSTAND DC? I DO NOT BELIEVE IN TANIWHA!!!! AND I NEVER DID!!!!!

I laughed so hard I nearly wet myself at "I hardly think the beliefs of a handfull of mostly teenagers here who do not believe dragons could exist is reason to not discuss the world's most believed in cryptic animal."

The vast majority of people on this forum believe dragons are not in existence, not a handful of teenagers (BTW that crack at my age is funny, because Otterclaw, this topics creator and apart from you the foremost dragon believer on this board, is only 11 and dragon seeker, the other, is my age, so I don't think age is a very smart thing to take a crack at.) We have decided by majority that dragons don't exist. Anyway, that part of my post was just a little sorta joke for the skeptics.

I think that what Otterclaw saw was a large bird, as most of the posters have suggested.

I read the thread because I like Otterclaw, she is very smart and is a brilliant contributor to these boards. I liked her story a lot and therfore replied to it. Never did I ask to be bombarded by an attack by you.

If you wish to attack me further please PM me.

That way I can delete your messages before I have to read them.

people saw giant stone reptilian bones and made up dragons to explain them, the Chinese grind up dinosaur fossils for medicine to this day and call them ‘dragon bones’, and animals can’t fly magically like Chinese dragons, I'm unaware of any accounts of cryptid lake monsters or sea serpents with wings, Nessie has never been described as having wings... IMO

I didn’t see anyone claim they speak for the whole UM community, and since when is having a contrary opinion disrupting? Seems like you just wants to have all dragon threads as your personal soapbox to spew your opinions as fact, and what’s the point of having these threads if people can’t read them and express themselves?...

Apparently you didn't bother to read his comments: QUOTE Undead Skeptic

Dragons don't exist, and we all agree that this was a large bird, not a dragon. Game over.

"Not so fast there sam!"

*Gasp!* It's the legions of dragon believrs on this board, they're devouring my brain! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

Anyway, what I'm saying is we have discussed the dragon topic over and over and have decided, the majority of us have decided, that dragons do NOT exist. Can't we let it rest? I'll make a poll...
END QUOTE

So you see what intellectual contributions this guy adds to the discussions? His only purpose is to make insulting, stupid remarks like this to manipulate the mods into closing every dragon thread.

If he really wanted to "let it rest", then why attack every dragon related thread until the mods close it in exasperation?

I did indeed miss Undeadskeptic’s post, and think he should have worded his post less collectively (And perhaps be whipped with wet noodles!), my apologies...

Anyway, I can prove people mistakenly believed dinosaur bones were dragon bones...

LINK-> Chinese villagers ate dinosaur 'dragon bones'

what have you got as tangible proof of dragons?

BTW, the various and dissimilar descriptions of dragons, would seem to indicate they were cultural constructs, much the same way vampire like entities and were-creatures (that are also found in just about every culture) are usually very dissimilar... after all Chinese dragons without wings or little wings don’t look like European dragons with their bat like wings, and the supposed Ishtar gate dragon doesn’t really resemble either of those... IMO

I'm very sorry to have hurt your feelings, but as I said before, PM me rather than ruin another thread.

However, Oriental dragons could not have existed unless you believe in magical levitation, since those things were said to fly with no wings. You use Scientists proving that dragons could have existed (which is true, I'll give you that much) as a basis for saying that they exist. Well, with the same logic, there's no way an Asian dragon could fly without wings. Meaning that the Cadborosaurus isn't an Asian dragon.
Plus, the darn thing has the head of a Camel, not a reptile. Also, you ignore that something that large not being able to avoid sonar if, in fact, it lives in shallow enough water to surface and be seen by humans at all.
But this thread is about a land-bound "dragon", not an ocean going creature. Otterclaw witnessed a creature with wings. As I said, something that large couldn't feed itself on land without us noticing or seeing SOME signs. You responded by shifting the debate to oceangoing creatures, when that is not the topic at hand.
I don't care how smart a "dragon" is; if it lands in a forest, and then flaps its wings to take off, it's going to leave marks of its passage.
Unless, of course, you believe these things can cast magic of some kind.
And on the age thing, fair enough. However, I myself am a Teenager (I turned 18 not long ago). My age, however, does not make my words any less valid.

hahaha! I read the hairy guy on a motorcycle explanation

what we have (in reference to the enboldened bit) is a situation before the 1700's or so where everyone compiling a beastiary, would plagurise the work of their predecessors....it was a 'tradition'. So essentially they all copied Pliny and other ancient sources......these early 'natural historians' were completely unreliable on the subject, but trusted by men who had little worldly experience.
The naval power of the British empire facilitated 'the enlightenment' of the 18th Century, where men (with access to much of the globe) were able to express their scientific enquiry in many fields.
This age sought to expand on and also challenge the knowledge of previous generations...........dragons didnt make the cut, they were never found.

Their position as mythical creatures and characters of folkelore was confirmed.

NEWSFLASH: DRAGONS DONT EXIST!

the only thing resembling a dragon is the prehistoric pteradon or pteradactyl and other winged dinosaurs. Dragons as they are portrayed today are a thing of myth just like the minotaur, medusa etc. The guy starting the post did not see a dragon he only saw what his active imagination led him to believe was a dragon. When will you guys start excercising some common sense and realise that just like leprecauns dragons are a fable at best? There is absolutley no evidence whatsoever that suggests that dragons existed or do exist. And by that i mean scientific evidence not the ramblings of a mad man.

Personally i think dragon's should be celabrated.???????(WHAT"""" )
Celabrated for what they are the greatest Mythological "Non Real" animal ever created

Ruin another thread in you words? How is it ruining another thread. You come on here and start Calling DC names And instagating him. Why is it wrong for DC to beilieve in something and Support that. If anyone is ruining a thread sir it may be you. DC holds his beilif of dragons close. And a Discussion Board is for discussing things.

Also im gonna have to go with the majority of the people It sounds like a large bird.

*shakes head* Why do people come in here and thrash people for there beiliefs.

DC doesn’t discuss, he makes unsubstantiated claims as fact. He tries to incorporate every sighting of flying or swimming unidentified beast like Nessie into a dragon (though Nessie is never described as winged, he just makes the assumption the wings are ‘folded’ against the body), or dragons without wings can fly magically...

He won’t even consider the possibility of slaying a dragon (yet there are myths of dragons being killed), yet claims they are hiding at the bottom of lakes and oceans because they fear people will kill them, and thinks the more likely explanation that ancient superstitious people saw giant stone reptilian bones (fossils), and tried to explain them with stories of dragons ‘is a modern cop out’...

Just try asking for some credible evidence, you’ll never get any... IMO