Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcakY-gJpbA

Giulio Tremonti ex Italian minister admits publicly that EU is a creation of ILLUMINATI, a sect of mad people. The ex vice prime minister Dalema says that Clinton and Obama are member of the same sect.

And here is the same clip with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olkU_dSjNU0...feature=related

Ah, youtube: dayspring for the crackpot. Or crack for the springpot.

--Jaylemurph

Whats that supposed to mean? That just because a clip is on youtube it is irrelevant? If so that is a strange approach, and still doesn't make what these two men say less true, quite the opposite it makes it more interesting considering it is documented and available for the public to see.

As the old saying "Facts doesn't cease to exists because they are ignored".

...Yeah, that's pretty much it exactly. It's a bit like saying "It was on teh internets. It must be true." I'm not aware of any legitimate news ever breaking on youtube.

--Jaylemurph

Not necessarily irrelevant, but just because something's on Youtube, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily true. There's no screening of material on the 'Tube; that can be a virtue vis-a-vis freedom of speech, but it also means that you can't necessarily accept it at face value.

As far as the theory goes, well, when hasn't there been some secret society or organisation populated by the Elite? The Rosicrucians, the Templars, the Freemasons, the Order of the Golden Dawn, the Illuminati, Bohemian Grove, etc, etc; they may have had some background influence on political decision making, who can say, but it's nothing new.

"ex Italian minister"?

Perhaps an attempt to stay relevant? Get more attention?

Sorry but his word isn't exactly evidence...

Evidence or not, the fact that prominent politicians are speaking out about the existence of Illuminati and discussing it with eachother should make you think some at least.

Jaylemurph: Doesn't take many clicks with yer mouse and keyboard to do some background research on things to find out about its validity, but I'll do it for you:

Some background info on the two politicians discussing Illuminati on the clip:

Giulio Tremonti (born August 18, 1947) is an Italian politician and economist, and was the former Italian minister of Economy and Finance and deputy-prime minister in the governments of Silvio Berlusconi. He is actually Vice-President of Forza Italia.

Massimo D'Alema (born April 20, 1949) is an Italian politician, currently Italian Minister of Foreign Affairs and Deputy Prime Minister of Italy. He is also a journalist, a former national secretary of the PDS, Partito Democratico della Sinistra, and he was the first President of the Council of Ministers coming from Italian Communist Party.

I don't think there would be much to gain politically for such prominent politicians to start babbling about Illuminati if they didnt know/think it was real.

Regarding 747400s comment, Porta Porta is a well known political program on italian TV, and so are both the politicians in the TV show clip above.

And when it comes to the secret societies, the whole point is yes , they have been there for a long time with such orders as the ones you mention, and the fact that such orders are involved with almost everything that is happening within the politics at the top level should be of concern. In other words, a very small group of individuals have been and still is controlling most of the world in secret and maintaining the false illusion that there is democracy.

Noooo.... you don't mean.... Saruman and the Guild of Moderators ???


Tell me it's not true FluffyBunny

Meow Purr.

Why is our government allowed to do what it can do?


This was on CSPAN... heed the words being said... because the message is loud and clear, and coming from hundred's of people who have watched how well the government has learned to control public opinion, or just keep them from fighting back.

Here, is a link to a page about a Norwegian Politician who believes the world is ending in 2012 by planet x.

I realise your desire to hear people talking about the Illuminati makes you want to think it's two people seriously talking about it, but that video is clearly one person namechecking them and clearly suggesting the people who believe in them are crazy. The other guy continues then jokes about it.

You're slipping, DB, and becoming another one of those people completely deluded by what they want to be true.

--Jaylemurph

Awfully sorry mate, but that actually seems to be a self-description of yourself.

It seems you've lost yourself in your little fantasy island blinded by the walls of illusions you've let be around you, and I don't think you'll ever be able to get of the shores and sail to the mainland.

Unfortunately I don't want these things to be true as you suggest, quite the opposite, I wish it was not true, but that is sadly not the case, and no I'm not speaking from only things I've seen on youtube, I've actually got a pretty active life outside the internet where I've been involved with many things and traveled around the world and done my research and discoveries, and to my dismay I figured out the deceit and lies we're subjected to years ago - sometimes I wish I could just stayed as gullible as you and been swept away in my own ignorance not knowing of what is going on in this world.

But it turned out otherwise, and I figured things out, and at least it has given me some advantages by knowing what they are doing for bad purposes, so I can do the same but for good purposes and gain even deeper understanding and insights. And yes, the saying "The truth is stranger than fiction" is indeed true.

Luckily there are many others who've discovered similar things and more and more people are starting to figure out what is going on, and at some point those people will be the majority and the lies, ignorance and deceit of the illusions that has been surrounding us for so long will be teared down.

I hope you'll be around when that happens

Best wishes and profound peace be with you!
-EA

Darkbreed,

Suppose the 'illuminati' does exsist and has controlled the world's governments for the past hundred years.

Is it not possible considering the achievements that humanity has accomplished under the rule of this "secret society" for the longest time, to think maybe it exsists for the better?

In reference to the Georgia Guidestones (if they were constructed by the world's true leaders) they seem to have only a positive agenda for humanity. So in that, maybe all this negative outlook on the illuminati is pointless hysteria?

I mean if they do exsist than such is life.

This just means just as easily as they have the power to keep running the electricty in your life, they also have the ability to turn out the lights for good (in some manner).

Proof that politicians are people too and can be taken in by the silliest of crap.

Of course they most likely do what they think is for the better, that is not the problem or issue, the problem is that they lie about the truth, about themselves, about their agendas, and that they want to put these things into action without letting people know about it, such as depopulation etc as you mention the georgia guidestones. If they do believe that what they do is for the better, they are still doing it the wrong way through evil, lies, deceit, wars, disinformation and on and on.

If they really were good they wouldn't need to do anything in secret, they could tell the world the truth about what is going on and what they want, and find a solution that would work along with the people, and let people understand why certain things have to be done for the better sake of mankind and the earth. But that's not what they are doing is it?

The bottom line is they don't really seem to give a sheit about anyone else than their own, and the majority of people is just a problem or their faithful slaves working for them to achieve and maintain their goals.

In my eyes, such people are "bad" and far from worthy being the masters.

I say give them time. Yes bad things have been made, such as the wars and commercialization. But considering the overall theme of the guidestones, they've learned their lesson. I'm sure these people have souls, in that they realize the consequences of their actions.

The past is just that, people learn from their mistakes, societys learn from their mistakes in that evolution or forward progress. I think within the next decade the veil of this "world society" will be lifted, considering all this 2012, new-age dawning schpeil.

Have faith in your fellow man, just remember to what your life contribute's to could be a bad thing in itself. In that take the guidestones seriously, because if they represent the mentality of the NWO, they could definatly bring the salvation this planet needs to continue on into the future.

heebrow (hitting the home brew a bit hard i think)


such is life, eh? do they or do they not exist? help me out here because i could have sworn you were all red, white and blue for it.. now you seem to not know one way or the other..

i saw your other topic.. the one that was 'closed' ..btw can i have those 2 minutes of my life back?

you don't seem to know what you're talking about.. you remind me of a friend i had when i was 18.. thought he was a vegetarian because he ate broccoli one day to impress his new girlfriend (some ridiculous analagy)

well.. this is what i mean..
Heebrow again

here you're speaking of something you know nothing about.. you're stressing to me 'ooh, they've learnt their lesson' like you know it for fact or something..? all i see you mention in your travels is the guidestones.. how researched you are.. bare with me..


do you know for sure or just offering your opinion again?


saying it like this just proves you're new to the scene.. it's not something new at all, ok? and new-age is just old old age, ok?

you didn't let me down..
Heebrow... again...

now this is just toooooo easy.. and i've never been one to shoot fish in a barrel.. maybe some kind soul will help you out with this..?

i saw what u posted elsewhere, too.. you don't know what's going on.. you've come to the conclusion that you're going to set up an eco-safe lifestyle (and kudo's for that) but you're too intent firing off shots at people who "just don't get it like YOU do" for you to even realise what motivates you? you just seem to be accusing others of what you yourself internally feel inside.. read up on some jung and go to the face of the waters.. then come here and illuminate us unwashed masses oh great one..

i don't care to be sensitive and loving to you in this case, because you need a harsh reality call.. you are not transparent..

until I and others take self responsibility...



is that a good thing? It's only taking away personal power, personal choice, personal life. without self reliance, you are at the mercy of others.





And have faith in my fellow humans? Really? I mean look at everything that has ever happened. There is nothing I don't trust more than humans. Trust can only work in a mutual relationship. They hide in the Dark and so I should trust them? They don't trust ME!

good and bad are in the eye of the beholder. You seem to like these people that exist and yet don't, and yet exist again, depending on whatever point you are making. Me I see them as bad, but we are both right, we just like different things. I like freedom.

-Muddy

What always puzzles me about these claims of secret societies running the world is this: at what stage does a politician with a non-establishment background (eg Obama, as claimed in this very thread) rise high enough to be invited to join? How do they deal with the situation of someone refusing to join? There do not appear to be any people who say they turned down such an invite, so what happens to them?

My Friends,
The Illuminati only means the enlightened ones. In this world there are many enlightened people. These enlightened people only make plans for what what is completely obvious to those who are receptive to facts. I will state what I feel are some pertinent facts and then state what I feel are the repercussion of these facts.

These are my facts, They do not need to be yours.

1) There are too many people on this earth. The use of science to improve health and nutrition has had the unfortunate effect of having to many people born and survive.

2) The human carrying capacity of the planet has been exceeded. The discovery of petroleum products has made vast amounts of energy available to man and man has used this energy to proliferate. This easily obtainable source of almost free energy is quickly coming to an end. ( google : peak oil )

3) An evolutionary test is about to commence: Those who pass the test will survive, those who do not will die. Just as the humans that were adaptable and could plan ahead and think to survive the bitter ice age that predated recorded history are our ancestors. The people of the future will be those whose ancestors could plan ahead to think, and adapt.

4) The United States and to lesser degrees other parts of the civilized world are coming apart. If you do not become self reliant, If you do not plan for what you will eat when there is no food in the store you will starve. If you do not plan for what you will drink when the water does not come out of your faucet you will wither with thirst, If you do not plan for your self defense to maintain these scarce resources when others want them you will be killed.

Widespread hunger, disease , violence at a level unseen in human history will occur, nothing can change what is going to happen, The illuminated ones understand that this is a natural process being carried out by a planet attempting to drive off the septic infection that is mankind. It is possible over 95% of the earths population will die, the illuminated ones do not wish for this to happen they ( like you ) are just unable to stop it.

If the illuminated ones have planned what the post industrial world will look like and can prevail to come out on the top of the food chain on the other side. this will be an advantage to the survivors even if they are not the top of it , or only a worker.

5) You have only two options. Plan and possibly survive, or fail to plan and die. It will not be necessary or expedient for anyone to plan another's death. It will be all the enlightened ones can to to prevent their own.

I am not presently completely prepared, but I think every day what will I need, how can I be sure that I have it. How will I keep others from taking what I have planned ahead to have. I have no grudges or hard feelings about any of my fellow man and may not make it to the other side but I am geared
up to make a maximum survival effort for me and my family.

I urge you to do the same firstly because I don't want to be the only one on the other side, but selfishly because the more people who are prepared the less pressure there will be on me and my families survival.

Why do you think we are in the war in Iraq, ( It is a resource war for the survival of our nation) If I were the president I would do exactly what he is doing to make sure that my people have the resources they need. Is it right to take what belongs to another country ? (of course not) Is it necessary (absolutely), expediency and morality must give way to necessity and survival.

Good Luck and good planning my friends. I you have to kill me before this whole thing is over, I hold no grudge against you, and I ask your forgiveness if I have to kill you, I am sorry. If we both survive I will meet you at the old fishing hole and we can talk about what a tough time we had.

Your friend

I can agree to some things said in this thread, and some of what supposedly the Illuminati are trying to achieve. This includes a lower population in the world, as obviously continuous increasing can only lead one way and that's not a good way, we already have lack of resources for the amount of people in the world. The more people, the more poverty, crime, disease, hunger and so on.

And this is a fact I don't think many people can deny in a rational way.

The problem however, is how to solve this, and the fact that these "illuminati" people try to depopulate the world without letting us know, through extreme and horrible methods without any seemingly regret or remorse to what they do, only caring about their "own" survival.

Of course that is just the TIP of the iceberg of what they are all about and what they do and keep from us, secretly, working with their hidden agendas behind our backs spreading lies and deceit on every plane of society and virtually every country of the world - when we go deeper into what they are about and what they do, the apple gets pretty rotten.

Thanks for your perspective of the future. I think the human species has the ability to overcome all the gloomy points you asserted above. I believe that thinking positively is the first step in the "evolutionary test" you mentioned. What you describe is not evolution but disevolution...something I don't want to "disevolve" into.

Dear SoCrazes,

Thank you for responding to my letter. You make many pertinent points and while I agree to hope with you that a peaceful, harmonious solution to the earths prevailing dilemma comes about with time, I do not see this as probable. I will hope for the best and prepare for the worst. In one of the letters above which you did not write the author said that what I was describing was a sort of de-evolution, I would not necessary disagree with this if he means it in the context that we may retrace our pre industrial past path. A previous writer suggests that there is a conspiracy to depopulate the earth, I can not say first hand that this is true. I do not think that it would be energy efficient to attempt to supplement the natural phenomenon, It would be like setting up powerful fans to help along a hurricane, or running giant pumps to increase the water level in New Orleans during Katrina. It would be nearly wasted energy that one could use more effectively to assure their own survival. I do see it as possible that potential survivors may manifest a form of benign neglect in not attempting to help those who have failed to prepare. I do not see this as malicious intent but as a necessary precaution as there are a limited number of people who can fit into a lifeboat before it swamps itself. Who are you going to let into the lifeboat with you; people that do not have their own food and water and are incapable of rowing or people who have also prepared that have their own supplies and are capable of increasing all the occupants chances of survival.

Your Friend.

Obama is blood related to BOTH Bush and Cheney, as both publically announced by the media as well as by Cheney's wife. In addition it is reported he is a 32 degree freemason. That's pretty established if you ask me.

When it comes to the other question, those who refuse to join, first of all they don't ask randomly, they handpick the ones they already know are on their side from many years of observation and indoctrination into their system, which includes mind control, brainwashing, and the like.

The few who try to get out, or actually refuse to take part, are usually threatened either on their life or with "uncomfortable" secrets regarding themselves, their private lives and things they've been involved with. So mostly they stay, though the major part belongs to the first mentioned group.

Either everyone who gains political power is a member, even someone who gets there unexpectedly, or there are people with power who are not members, yet curiously neglect to blow the whistle.
Neither case strikes me as particularly believable.

Briefly -

A group was created to mimic the Illuminati that no longer existed and named themselves The Skull and Bones.

A member of the Skull and Bones created an off shoot group and named it The Council on Foreign Relations.

All of this can easily be verified by numerous documents and historical texts. Easy research.

Here is then the site of what one could call the modern Illuminati, The Council on Foreign Relations.

site link

32 degree freemason? Well, i wouldn't worry about them plotting conspiracies for global domination; they'd never have time, with all the initiations they'd have to do every week. They'd never get anything else done at the meetings.

I thought Rockefeller founded the CFR, was he Skull n Bones?

Anyway, I agree with you that the CFR is an arm of the illuminati.

We lie, because the lie is our friend
the lie is a loving god
the lie is eternal life
the lie is meaning and purpose
the lie is justice
the lie is human dignity
the lie is equality
We lie and do not turn our backs
on such a sweet and gentle friend.

10th Cousins once removed, and 11th cousins. Obama and I are both distant descendants of General Robert E. Lee....maybe that means I'm related to Bush and Cheney as well? Sweet - that means I can get in on the Illuminati racket too.


Reported by whom? He isn't listed as a member by any lodge that I have seen. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Mfume are all listed as Prince Hall Freemasons, but Obama is not. And in order for Obama to be a 32-degree freemason, he would have to be Scottish Rite. So where is the evidence that he is a master mason as well as a 32-degree Scottish Rite freemason?

NumberOneSon