This guy was performing some work on his Dell laptop, and found a hardware keylogger attached to his NIC. He called Dell to ask about it and was hung up on. He then calls the police, and they apparently knew what it was about. They told him to contact the department of homeland security.
The DHS told him to file a freedom of information act request to get a answer, and the request was denied. I think I will toss out my Dell laptop...haha
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Full Version: Own a dell laptop or desktop?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > News, Media & World Events > Conspiracies & Secret Societies
pretty darn sure it's not just dell.
I wonder if mine has it,i'm not sure what kind mine is.It doesnt matter if they monitor me though,i'm boring.... lol.
I am not sure why they would need hardware on your PC to log your key strokes (although I don't doubt it). Because, they have data bases that log all of your internet activity, down to how long you view pages and what you say in your emails and IMs. I guess these key loggers could be used to log non-internet activity.
They can (and do) also use your computers built-in mics and cameras to peep in on you (as well as your cell phones).
They can (and do) also use your computers built-in mics and cameras to peep in on you (as well as your cell phones).
How bloody dare they...what next? counters in the crapper 
QUOTE (el midgetron @ Apr 6 2008, 02:35 AM) 
I am not sure why they would need hardware on your PC to log your key strokes (although I don't doubt it). Because, they have data bases that log all of your internet activity, down to how long you view pages and what you say in your emails and IMs. I guess these key loggers could be used to log non-internet activity.
They can (and do) also use your computers built-in mics and cameras to peep in on you (as well as your cell phones).
They can (and do) also use your computers built-in mics and cameras to peep in on you (as well as your cell phones).
If you send emails to a terrorist odds are good that you are using some strong encryption before you send that email. The government can break encryption but really strong encryption takes a huge network of super computers and even then it can take years to break them. A lot of email encryption softwares are made in Europe and thus the American government does not have backdoor secret access to break them.
It would save a lot of time breaking encryption if you can log everything before it gets sent.
-winces- Greeaat. If they've been key-logging Acer laptops, then they'll know I'm an obsessive fiction writer. I really wonder what they're going to do with that information. (cue sarcasm)
Actually, I wonder how they'd get to read it all. There's more pages typed up than probably the number of human beings on the planet.
Actually, I wonder how they'd get to read it all. There's more pages typed up than probably the number of human beings on the planet.
I could care less.... government agencies have been monitoring my email and communications for 10 years and I was told that right up front when I took my job. *shrugs* I wouldn't be surprised if my work email is monitored by the EU too, but I don't know precisely.
The reality is that there is SO much data that flows around the internet and in and out of computers, that it's almost impossible to parse any of it because of the sheer volume. There are certain things government agencies are looking for, and I can be pretty sure they're not intestested in you, or in reading your communications. My communications yes, they're watching me, but it's because of my job... trust me, they don't have time, resources or interested in watching 99.9% of the population.
As for whether Dell installs Keylogger hardware. Dell doesn't even manufacture their own NIC cards. I've taken apart tons of Dell laptops, servers, and desktops and none of them have had suspicious hardware. Besides, this is a hoax anyway, it's on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/dellbug.asp
It would be a LOT easier to bury a keylogger in an operating system and I know for 100% certain Microsoft does not, nor Apple and I'm really certain Linux doesn't either.
Not even at my job do we have hardware or software keyloggers and we KNOW we're being monitored and evaluated constantly by the federal government and foreign governments... how do they do it? The government can request the backups, which we MUST produce, and they will go through those backups e-mail by boring e-mail.
The reality is that there is SO much data that flows around the internet and in and out of computers, that it's almost impossible to parse any of it because of the sheer volume. There are certain things government agencies are looking for, and I can be pretty sure they're not intestested in you, or in reading your communications. My communications yes, they're watching me, but it's because of my job... trust me, they don't have time, resources or interested in watching 99.9% of the population.
As for whether Dell installs Keylogger hardware. Dell doesn't even manufacture their own NIC cards. I've taken apart tons of Dell laptops, servers, and desktops and none of them have had suspicious hardware. Besides, this is a hoax anyway, it's on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/dellbug.asp
It would be a LOT easier to bury a keylogger in an operating system and I know for 100% certain Microsoft does not, nor Apple and I'm really certain Linux doesn't either.
Not even at my job do we have hardware or software keyloggers and we KNOW we're being monitored and evaluated constantly by the federal government and foreign governments... how do they do it? The government can request the backups, which we MUST produce, and they will go through those backups e-mail by boring e-mail.
QUOTE ((Moonlight) @ Apr 6 2008, 08:25 AM)
-winces- Greeaat. If they've been key-logging Acer laptops, then they'll know I'm an obsessive fiction writer. I really wonder what they're going to do with that information. (cue sarcasm)
Actually, I wonder how they'd get to read it all. There's more pages typed up than probably the number of human beings on the planet.
Actually, I wonder how they'd get to read it all. There's more pages typed up than probably the number of human beings on the planet.
Thats the thing, they can't read it all. Its more about creating a climate of fear of speak out.
QUOTE
In Mussolini's Italy, in Nazi Germany, in communist East Germany, in communist China - in every closed society - secret police spy on ordinary people and encourage neighbours to spy on neighbours. The Stasi needed to keep only a minority of East Germans under surveillance to convince a majority that they themselves were being watched.
In 2005 and 2006, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau wrote in the New York Times about a secret state programme to wiretap citizens' phones, read their emails and follow international financial transactions, it became clear to ordinary Americans that they, too, could be under state scrutiny. In closed societies, this surveillance is cast as being about "national security"; the true function is to keep citizens docile and inhibit their activism and dissent
In 2005 and 2006, when James Risen and Eric Lichtblau wrote in the New York Times about a secret state programme to wiretap citizens' phones, read their emails and follow international financial transactions, it became clear to ordinary Americans that they, too, could be under state scrutiny. In closed societies, this surveillance is cast as being about "national security"; the true function is to keep citizens docile and inhibit their activism and dissent
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment
QUOTE (el midgetron @ Apr 6 2008, 06:35 AM)
I am not sure why they would need hardware on your PC to log your key strokes (although I don't doubt it). Because, they have data bases that log all of your internet activity, down to how long you view pages and what you say in your emails and IMs. I guess these key loggers could be used to log non-internet activity.
They can (and do) also use your computers built-in mics and cameras to peep in on you (as well as your cell phones).
They can (and do) also use your computers built-in mics and cameras to peep in on you (as well as your cell phones).
Oh, they monitor sites like this as hotbeds of potentially subversive activity, I've no doubt. Certain keywords trigger a flurry of activity at the NSA and DHS and all the other acronyms. The usual things, like George W. Bush, and Osama bin Laden, and Spongebob, and Pentagon, and etc, and etc.
Just think about all the jobs they are creating and how they are helping the economy! 
QUOTE (belial @ Apr 6 2008, 07:09 AM)
How bloody dare they...what next? counters in the crapper
ROFLMAO!!!
:::: runs off to check ::::
Its a hoax. See Frenat's post a couple up.
In addition, it wouldn't work. You can't hook up a keylogger to your network card and expect it to be able to transmit anything over the internet. The network card does not contain the IP protocol stack. The hypothetical 'keylogger' would have to run it's OWN protocol stack. It would not be able to do this without risking interference with the operation of the computer (because it has no way of knowing what stack the PC is running, and therefore could not integrate with it. The keylogger would hence cause 'interference').
Finally, it would have no way of deducing the IP address of the local (default) router.
Meow Purr.
In addition, it wouldn't work. You can't hook up a keylogger to your network card and expect it to be able to transmit anything over the internet. The network card does not contain the IP protocol stack. The hypothetical 'keylogger' would have to run it's OWN protocol stack. It would not be able to do this without risking interference with the operation of the computer (because it has no way of knowing what stack the PC is running, and therefore could not integrate with it. The keylogger would hence cause 'interference').
Finally, it would have no way of deducing the IP address of the local (default) router.
Meow Purr.
^^^ correct.
You can run dual TCP/IP stacks, but not under the scenario this hoax suggests.
You can run dual TCP/IP stacks, but not under the scenario this hoax suggests.
QUOTE (ships-cat @ Apr 6 2008, 04:44 PM)
Its a hoax. See Frenat's post a couple up.
In addition, it wouldn't work. You can't hook up a keylogger to your network card and expect it to be able to transmit anything over the internet. The network card does not contain the IP protocol stack. The hypothetical 'keylogger' would have to run it's OWN protocol stack. It would not be able to do this without risking interference with the operation of the computer (because it has no way of knowing what stack the PC is running, and therefore could not integrate with it. The keylogger would hence cause 'interference').
Finally, it would have no way of deducing the IP address of the local (default) router.
Meow Purr.
In addition, it wouldn't work. You can't hook up a keylogger to your network card and expect it to be able to transmit anything over the internet. The network card does not contain the IP protocol stack. The hypothetical 'keylogger' would have to run it's OWN protocol stack. It would not be able to do this without risking interference with the operation of the computer (because it has no way of knowing what stack the PC is running, and therefore could not integrate with it. The keylogger would hence cause 'interference').
Finally, it would have no way of deducing the IP address of the local (default) router.
Meow Purr.
Hypothetically - There are more network Protocols than just TCP, especially if you were just transmitting. Also, you wouldn't run it in real time - that would be madness. You'd store up the info and transmit it during periods of other network activity.
It's pretty pointless, however - if it's sent across the Internet, Echelon knows about it, anyway.
QUOTE (Tiggs @ Apr 6 2008, 05:45 PM)
Hypothetically - There are more network Protocols than just TCP, especially if you were just transmitting. Also, you wouldn't run it in real time - that would be madness. You'd store up the info and transmit it during periods of other network activity.
True, but most home/small office routers can only handle TCP/IP encapsulation... and ditto the broadband suppliers. Also, the chip in this gadget (as described on umpteen blog websites) only has about 500KByte of memory, which would be pushing it to create a TCP stack and the keystroke buffering/logging software - let alone to function as a 'store-and-forward' device.
QUOTE (Tiggs @ Apr 6 2008, 05:45 PM)
It's pretty pointless, however - if it's sent across the Internet, Echelon knows about it, anyway.
There is no such system Tiggs.. and No Such Agency to run it !
Meow Purr.
I've never heard of a hardware device that's sole purpose is keylogging. The only keyloggers I've ever heard of are of the software variety that are offered with commercialy available spyware programs.
As was pointed out, the hardware device would need to transmit the logged data over the internet at some point. The transmit to location is usually to an email address or FTP server and that information would have to be hardwire programmed into the ROM of the chip in question. A good firewall however would detect these transmissions and in most cases, give the user the option to block them.
As was pointed out, the hardware device would need to transmit the logged data over the internet at some point. The transmit to location is usually to an email address or FTP server and that information would have to be hardwire programmed into the ROM of the chip in question. A good firewall however would detect these transmissions and in most cases, give the user the option to block them.
QUOTE (ships-cat @ Apr 6 2008, 07:00 PM)
True, but most home/small office routers can only handle TCP/IP encapsulation... and ditto the broadband suppliers. Also, the chip in this gadget (as described on umpteen blog websites) only has about 500KByte of memory, which would be pushing it to create a TCP stack and the keystroke buffering/logging software - let alone to function as a 'store-and-forward' device.
You might be surprised. There's UDP for example, which can easily be rigged in less than 16k - and I could personally write a keyboard logger in well under 1k - Just a quick TSR that hooked in to the keyboard interrupt. Add a ZIP function in 16k (with a 4k dictionary) and you'd have room for roughly 100,000 keystrokes, give or take. Remember that back in the good old days, many of us used to surf the BBS's with just a 32k BBC Micro and a Prestel adapter.
QUOTE
There is no such system Tiggs.. and No Such Agency to run it !
Meow Purr.
Meow Purr.
No Such Agency, indeed
QUOTE (Stardrive @ Apr 6 2008, 02:32 PM)
I've never heard of a hardware device that's sole purpose is keylogging. The only keyloggers I've ever heard of are of the software variety that are offered with commercialy available spyware programs.
As was pointed out, the hardware device would need to transmit the logged data over the internet at some point. The transmit to location is usually to an email address or FTP server and that information would have to be hardwire programmed into the ROM of the chip in question. A good firewall however would detect these transmissions and in most cases, give the user the option to block them.
As was pointed out, the hardware device would need to transmit the logged data over the internet at some point. The transmit to location is usually to an email address or FTP server and that information would have to be hardwire programmed into the ROM of the chip in question. A good firewall however would detect these transmissions and in most cases, give the user the option to block them.
I've seen hardware keyloggers as a small thumb drive size item that the keyboard is plugged into then it is plugged into the computer but it was designed to be interrogated by another user on the same computer. Still rare though as a software solution could do the same job, quicker, cheaper, and easier.
Trust me, y'all are giving the government and corporations WAY too much credit. 
They aren't as smart or organized as ya think. LOL. Really.
They aren't as smart or organized as ya think. LOL. Really.
Two words, MissMelsWell. Baseball and TopSail. Wikipedia is your friend.
QUOTE
The reality is that there is SO much data that flows around the internet and in and out of computers, that it's almost impossible to parse any of it because of the sheer volume
that's why there's things like echelon, carnivore, omnivore, and whatever else we don't know about..
QUOTE
Trust me, y'all are giving the government and corporations WAY too much credit. They aren't as smart or organized as ya think. LOL. Really.
hum.. ok.. i guess it's just a fluke they managed to run the show thus far?
every computer p3 and beyond has its own unique signature on the internet.. all traffic is stored on ISP end. just put heads down and thumbs up ones own behind and nothing to worry about.. but exercise your right to free speech and you'll pay for it..
enjoy the journey
As for the OP's link HERE, the supposed referral by the police to the DHS would be because ( I would think) it was above their level and would fall under the jurisdiction of the DHS.
And if you do a google image search of "denied freedom of information act request", you'll get about a million returns. So, I doubt that the one posted in the link was even original.
And if you do a google image search of "denied freedom of information act request", you'll get about a million returns. So, I doubt that the one posted in the link was even original.
QUOTE (unit @ Apr 9 2008, 07:28 AM)
that's why there's things like echelon, carnivore, omnivore, and whatever else we don't know about..
hum.. ok.. i guess it's just a fluke they managed to run the show thus far?
every computer p3 and beyond has its own unique signature on the internet.. all traffic is stored on ISP end. just put heads down and thumbs up ones own behind and nothing to worry about.. but exercise your right to free speech and you'll pay for it..
enjoy the journey
hum.. ok.. i guess it's just a fluke they managed to run the show thus far?
every computer p3 and beyond has its own unique signature on the internet.. all traffic is stored on ISP end. just put heads down and thumbs up ones own behind and nothing to worry about.. but exercise your right to free speech and you'll pay for it..
enjoy the journey
Ya, it is a FLUKE they've run it so far... I mean, the reality is that they're not even doing a good job of running much anyway.
You don't need to tell me about MAC addresses and IP addressess. I work for the Evil Empire... Microsoft, on the Windows team no less. LOL. I'm watching you while you're laying on the sofa scratching your butt.
It's a conspiracy, really. LOL NOT.
QUOTE (MissMelsWell @ Apr 6 2008, 04:39 AM)
I could care less.... government agencies have been monitoring my email and communications for 10 years and I was told that right up front when I took my job. *shrugs* I wouldn't be surprised if my work email is monitored by the EU too, but I don't know precisely.
The reality is that there is SO much data that flows around the internet and in and out of computers, that it's almost impossible to parse any of it because of the sheer volume. There are certain things government agencies are looking for, and I can be pretty sure they're not intestested in you, or in reading your communications. My communications yes, they're watching me, but it's because of my job... trust me, they don't have time, resources or interested in watching 99.9% of the population.
As for whether Dell installs Keylogger hardware. Dell doesn't even manufacture their own NIC cards. I've taken apart tons of Dell laptops, servers, and desktops and none of them have had suspicious hardware. Besides, this is a hoax anyway, it's on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/dellbug.asp
It would be a LOT easier to bury a keylogger in an operating system and I know for 100% certain Microsoft does not, nor Apple and I'm really certain Linux doesn't either.
Not even at my job do we have hardware or software keyloggers and we KNOW we're being monitored and evaluated constantly by the federal government and foreign governments... how do they do it? The government can request the backups, which we MUST produce, and they will go through those backups e-mail by boring e-mail.
The reality is that there is SO much data that flows around the internet and in and out of computers, that it's almost impossible to parse any of it because of the sheer volume. There are certain things government agencies are looking for, and I can be pretty sure they're not intestested in you, or in reading your communications. My communications yes, they're watching me, but it's because of my job... trust me, they don't have time, resources or interested in watching 99.9% of the population.
As for whether Dell installs Keylogger hardware. Dell doesn't even manufacture their own NIC cards. I've taken apart tons of Dell laptops, servers, and desktops and none of them have had suspicious hardware. Besides, this is a hoax anyway, it's on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/computer/internet/dellbug.asp
It would be a LOT easier to bury a keylogger in an operating system and I know for 100% certain Microsoft does not, nor Apple and I'm really certain Linux doesn't either.
Not even at my job do we have hardware or software keyloggers and we KNOW we're being monitored and evaluated constantly by the federal government and foreign governments... how do they do it? The government can request the backups, which we MUST produce, and they will go through those backups e-mail by boring e-mail.
Why would the fed be so concerned with a microsoft employees e-mail then? If they were not so concerned with or connected in some way with microsoft then why is your internet use monitored so rigorously? Afraid someone may let the cat out of the bag? I dunno, my dell laptops built in camera flashes each time the comp is turned on and its a little disconcerting to say the least since I've never even used it. I'll say this we need laws and we need police but do we need sooo many? I mean just on the local level I have city, county, and state police plus all the special ops police like the dept of game and fish, gbi, fbi, cia, nsa, ins and newly morped public safety commision (dot) and who knows what else may be out there. Even with alllll these agencys we are overrun with illegal aliens and 19 terrorist were somehow able to defeat them all. Somebody was asleep at the wheel and heads should roll and careers ended WITHOUT their retirement that your average taxpayer will never receive. I often feel like the US wants half the people in prison and the other half watching them.
I don't care if it's a hoax every time I log in to my computer it feels like someone is monitoring every step I take 
QUOTE (Mordfabrik @ May 13 2008, 06:01 PM)
I don't care if it's a hoax every time I log in to my computer it feels like someone is monitoring every step I take
That's just good ol' healthy paranoia
QUOTE (cpjason @ Apr 6 2008, 12:27 AM)
This guy was performing some work on his Dell laptop, and found a hardware keylogger attached to his NIC. He called Dell to ask about it and was hung up on. He then calls the police, and they apparently knew what it was about. They told him to contact the department of homeland security.
The DHS told him to file a freedom of information act request to get a answer, and the request was denied. I think I will toss out my Dell laptop...haha
click
The DHS told him to file a freedom of information act request to get a answer, and the request was denied. I think I will toss out my Dell laptop...haha
click
Sounds like someone has bought stock in Apple!
QUOTE (Mordfabrik @ May 13 2008, 07:01 PM)
I don't care if it's a hoax every time I log in to my computer it feels like someone is monitoring every step I take
Oh now, thats just silly.
BTW your shoe is untied.
QUOTE (supervike @ May 14 2008, 04:08 AM)
Oh now, thats just silly.
BTW your shoe is untied.
BTW your shoe is untied.
Haha I didn't look, what now?
And who the hell wears shoes indoors? Man you're all kinds of messed up, lol.
QUOTE (cpjason @ Apr 6 2008, 01:27 AM)
This guy was performing some work on his Dell laptop, and found a hardware keylogger attached to his NIC. He called Dell to ask about it and was hung up on. He then calls the police, and they apparently knew what it was about. They told him to contact the department of homeland security.
The DHS told him to file a freedom of information act request to get a answer, and the request was denied. I think I will toss out my Dell laptop...haha
click
The DHS told him to file a freedom of information act request to get a answer, and the request was denied. I think I will toss out my Dell laptop...haha
click
I not true I work on Dells. Never seen anyone on the NIC card. I just replaced a NIC today. Sorry Dude but your wrong.
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