If or when I have a child I plan on educating them in rational and logical thought. Teach them to be perceptive, and not to be gullible or naive. During all this I will instill morals in my child and when they are older, I will expose them to different religions views.

If you truly want her to make up her mind why dont you expose her unbiasly to worlds

Number 1 religion Islam
Number 2 religion Catholicism

Arent you forcing your religion down her throat defacto by exposing her only to Protestanism

good for you hon, you have taken a experince and created a benefical idea out of it...it is simply good for a child to be exposed to many perspectives, many well meaning guides( who themselves were once taught as you we model what we have been taught and often much is excepted on an assumption of soundness.. not enough question or know how....) go easy on your folks your example will speak for you, they will see for themselves ...My folks are fundies of the most devoute kind yet they have said to me on many occassions that even though i have gone a path they would not even fathom they are delighted in who I am, My mom has said I am very spiritually evolved, i dont' know what she means but from her its a compliment) .. we create naivety by the limits we place on our kids....More shelter their kids from life than actually prepare them for it.....to be able to discern fact from fiction is very imperative.....

Islam is not the number one religion pal. It takes every sect of Islam to barely overcome a single denomination of Christianity. Christians have over a billion more followers.

My littlest son, Ahmed, like Islam. Maybe I shouldn't have named him Ahmed...... But I'm fluent in Arabic, and Islam is very important to me. And Ahmed means "praise". So... But I teach my kids all religions, philosophies, and social sciences. I try to emphasize the universal good aspects of them all. But when they get older, they can decide for themsleves what religion and life-style they want. Knowing my luck, they will be homosexual Mormon pro-football players! But I'll still love them.

My littlest son, Ahmed, like Islam. Maybe I shouldn't have named him Ahmed...... But I'm fluent in Arabic, and Islam is very important to me. And Ahmed means "praise". So... But I teach my kids all religions, philosophies, and social sciences. I try to emphasize the universal good aspects of them all. But when they get older, they can decide for themsleves what religion and life-style they want. Knowing my luck, they will be homosexual Mormon pro-football players! But I'll still love them.

My wife & I plan to raise our kids (once we have them) as Pagans if they choose to stay on that path as they get older is up to them. If they choose to stay Pagans then whatever path is thiers to choose too. We refuse to think for our kids when it comes time for such things as religion & politics. As parents we can only point them down a path it is there choice to choose where they go when the path branches.

I like your style. But you're forgetting that Christianity is also pagan...

My wife & I plan to raise our kids (once we have them) as Pagans if they choose to stay on that path as they get older is up to them. If they choose to stay Pagans then whatever path is thiers to choose too. We refuse to think for our kids when it comes time for such things as religion & politics. As parents we can only point them down a path it is there choice to choose where they go when the path branches.

I like your style. But you're forgetting that Christianity is also pagan...

Explain...... you lost me.

Interesting, I am a christian, and I didn't raise my daughter to be christian. She was welcome to attend services with me if she chose to, and sometimes she did (not that there's much to see or hear at a Quaker First Day). Mostly she chose to spend the mornings entertaining her grandparents.

Is there some reason you'd choose to raise them pagan instead of just letting them find their own path right from the start? I have no real opinion either way, honest, I'm just curious.

Judaism and Islam are monotheistic and spiritual insofar as both religions tend to seek a spiritual God that encompasses all of creation.

Christianity evolved to subsume all of the Roman and some Celtic traditions. Christianity has elements of Mithraism, for instance. Isis' qualities are adapted and she re-emerges as the Virgin Mary. Many lower deities are transformed into "saints." So Catholic (which means Universal) is truly universal. It is an amalgamation of the Hebrew god, and many, many, many of the pagan traditions ranging from Persia to Egypt to greece to Gaul and to Rome.

So, even after the Protestant Reformation, Christianity retains a flavor of paganism.

There's a line in a movie (a black comedy, Full Metal Jacket, maybe): You love the Virgin Mary, don't you?

I love that line. The concept of the bleeding heart of Mary/Isis to whom Christians may pray in dark times.

Christians also bow and pray to St. Francis of Asissi; Joseph (the patron of virgins); Stephen; etc.

See what I'm getting at?

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Matthew 28:16-20

Where in there does it say, "go and make people worship god"?

I highlighted 'TEACHING' for a reason. Teachers don't cram a belief down children's necks, they give every viewpoint.


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

Well then I think your goddess is really messing up because she has failed to prove her existence or sovereignty to me. Does this goddess hate people? Why doesn't she prove her existence to everybody?

Where in there does it say, "go and make people worship god"?

I highlighted 'TEACHING' for a reason. Teachers don't cram a belief down children's necks, they give every viewpoint.


Thanks, GUNNARYSEARGENTHARTMAN

When I have kids, if I have kids, I won't force them into everything. If they want to go, I'll go and take them with them. I'll baptise them because I would want them to go to a catholic school, but I wouldn't make them go to church.

Want the good and bad news?

Good news? You don't have to be baptised to go to a Catholic school.

Bad news? If they go to a Catholic school, bapitsed or not, they're going to be forced go to Mass at least once a week during school hours.

Well then I think your goddess is really messing up because she has failed to prove her existence or sovereignty to me.

Does this goddess hate people? Why doesn't she prove her existence to everybody?

Tthere are many approaches to reading the bible one is the believers approach and no it would not include critcal analysis of the canon... there is a historical approach and there is the jewish understanding of the bible as well as the christian and the Catholic etc....there is the scholarly approach to the bible and the literary approach etc etc.....

i am confident most teachers do not include these viewpoints....I am a parent and this is the way the bible is presented as many pov as I know of then my kids conclude........


to say i let my kid decide what to beleive is probaly not accurate, as parents we do guide them either by what we say or don't say and of course we don't just let them beleive what ever they want, ( I hope) ..i do place alot of stress on discernment and how to think, i do not tell my kids what they should think... i give as much data as available and let them conclude what it means to them if anything.....

there is no need to believe in things to get value from them., nor would i teach hatred(fear) as a contrast to get one to chose my way..... and as a parent i would not infer all beleifs are created equal in merit and value this is just not the case........

Janet Jenkins, part of a now-sundered lesbian twosome, has alleged that because of Lisa Miller’s (the biological mother) Christian parenting practices, Miller is no longer is a fit mother. Jenkins is seeking full custody of the child.

Forty years ago can seem like light years in cultural terms.

Forty years ago, the story of a Vermont lesbian who wanted to take a child away from her biological mother--because the mother was a Christian--would have been unbelievable.

Janet Jenkins, part of a now-sundered lesbian twosome, has alleged that because of Lisa Miller’s (the biological mother) Christian parenting practices, Miller is no longer is a fit mother. Jenkins is seeking full custody of the child.

Miller and Jenkins were a couple before Miller left the relationship and became a Christian. Now, the Virginia Supreme Court has to rule if 6-year-old Isabella, Miller's child, is to be ripped away from her and custody given to Jenkins.

Mathew Staver, chief of Liberty Counsel, said the impact of the decision will reach far beyond the important determination of the future for the child in question, also impacting states' sovereignty and the values on which Christian parents make decisions.

Staver said that the wrong ruling could set Isabella up to be "paraded as a political trophy of the homosexual community in Vermont".

"This case is exceptionally important because the future of [the child] Isabella hangs in the balance," he said. "Her future will be to either remain with her biological mother, Lisa Miller, or potentially be ripped away from her mom and placed in a lesbian household… This case is also important because states must also have the sovereign authority to maintain their marriage policy as the union of one man and one woman, while rejecting same-sex unions. Virginia's Constitution compels the state supreme court to not recognize out-of-state, same-sex marriages and civil unions.

"But if Virginia loses its sovereignty, then the sovereignty of every other state is put in jeopardy," he said.

Vermont's Supreme Court already granted parental rights and visitation to Jenkins. Miller and Isabella live in Virginia and Miller has gone to the Virginia Supreme to defend her right to raise her own daughter as she sees fit.

"This hearing will determine whether a lesbian woman who is Lisa Miller's former partner will share custody of Isabella, Lisa's daughter," wrote Matt Barber, policy director for cultural issues at Concerned Women for America. "The woman is neither an adoptive parent nor is she biologically related to Isabella. In fact, she's a total stranger to the little girl.

"Isabella, who is now 6 years old, hadn't seen this woman since she was 17 months old. This case could have national ramifications and will help decide whether states like Vermont and Massachusetts get to export their radical new definitions of marriage and family around the country," Barber said.

The relationship ended when Miller became a Christian and claimed Jenkins was abusive. Miller, who says she no longer is a lesbian, lives with her daughter in Virginia.

Lower courts in Virginia have ruled Miller is the sole parent and the Virginia Marriage Affirmation Act bars recognition of civil unions. The Vermont Supreme Court, however, reached across state lines to demand that Miller allow Jenkins visitation.

Jenkins alleges that Miller's Christianity is unhealthy and harmful to Isabella

"That's true. Janet Jenkins, in court documents in Vermont, argued because Lisa prays for her daughter and her well-being, and even prays for Janet, that in fact that is not in the best interests of Isabella. She [Jenkins] says because Lisa prays for her daughter, and tells her she's praying to do God's will, Janet has taken the position that … Christianity is harmful to children," Staver told WorldNetDaily.

As pat sums the whole case up: "The woman attempting to gain custody is not the mother in any sense, nor does she pay child support. The 'bad' parenting alleged is the practice of Christianity. The Vermont Court asserts authority over both parties because a 'civil union' was contracted there. The birth and residency of the child was never in Vermont. This case appears to be setup to void traditional 'best interest of the child' standards in favor of 'whatever a gay person wants'"

Staver anticipates that if Jenkins or the state of Vermont attempt to enforce the stipulations of the civil union custody ruling in Virginia, that Miller will have to start over again at county court. The arguments on her behalf in the next round of legal wrangling, however, will center on Virginia's Marriage Amendment, so this time, the upper courts won't be able to ignore it.

So here is a case that has went under the radar for quite some time. Perhaps it deserves its own thread but a lesbian couple split up, one who is a biological mother of her child became a Christian and wanted nothing to do with her former partner, her former partner then in turned sued for custody and one of her charges was that:

Judaism and Islam are monotheistic and spiritual insofar as both religions tend to seek a spiritual God that encompasses all of creation.

Christianity evolved to subsume all of the Roman and some Celtic traditions. Christianity has elements of Mithraism, for instance. Isis' qualities are adapted and she re-emerges as the Virgin Mary. Many lower deities are transformed into "saints." So Catholic (which means Universal) is truly universal. It is an amalgamation of the Hebrew god, and many, many, many of the pagan traditions ranging from Persia to Egypt to greece to Gaul and to Rome.

So, even after the Protestant Reformation, Christianity retains a flavor of paganism.

There's a line in a movie (a black comedy, Full Metal Jacket, maybe): You love the Virgin Mary, don't you?

I love that line. The concept of the bleeding heart of Mary/Isis to whom Christians may pray in dark times.

Christians also bow and pray to St. Francis of Asissi; Joseph (the patron of virgins); Stephen; etc.

See what I'm getting at?

Interesting indeed and I quite disagree with the ruling.

Please don't mix up Christians with Catholics. I am a Christian I do not pray to any of them only to God in the name of Christ when I pray as instructed to by the bible. All the Catholic church did was take the Roman Gods and change their names. Which is why I keep saying that the Catholic church is not a christian church. Some of the Catholic people might be but not the Church. I also don't worship a syring(the cross).

Danielost maybe you should take a good look at the CLDS before you start calling the Catholic Church "non-Christian". Catholics are just as Christian as any other denomination. Obviously you don't know much about the Catholic Church. As a former Catholic, I can guarantee that the Catholic Church is a Christian organization.

Chris·tian
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

1. A Christian is a person who professes to believe in Jesus Christ.
2. Catholics profess faith in Jesus Christ.
3. Therefore, Catholics are Christians.

They profess their faith in the Nicene Creed during mass.

The Roman system certainly does not follow the Bible and the Bible alone. They might be considered Christians but they are not biblical Christians. It does not mean there is good people in the Catholic faith who will go to heaven I believe there is.

Catholics are the only trus Christians ,and were the only christian religion for the first 1500 years the rest are "Johnny come latelys"

First of all Clovis, interpretation of the Bible and what constitutes as "biblical" is subjective. Each Denomination follows whatever interpretation of the Bible serves their own methods. This does not mean that any one is more right than the others. For all you know, the Catholic Church could actually be the official Church of God. I'm not saying it is (nor would I say that about any Church, and neither, I dare say, do I think you would.) but I am just throwing that out there.

This is not about interpretation of the Bible it is about following the traditions they either made up or inherited from paganism. It is about them not even accepting the Bible as the sole source of Christianity.

The key as you stated above is that "Each Denomination follows whatever interpretation of the Bible serves their own methods" while Catholicism also follows their own rules that are extrabiblical which are called magisterium. And well any church who claims their leader is the representative of God on earth and uses the title of Pontifex Maximus, the title of the leader of the ancient Roman College of Pontiffs which also included Vestal Virgins and augurs, well that is not Christianity...

They do not subscribe to sola scriptura and some might even make the point they do not subscribe to prima scriptura either. They hold their own traditions equal to Scripture which their traditions and rules are always changing. This is why it can be said with confidence that Catholicism is not 'biblical Christianity'.

No offense meant at all to Mormons, but I did find it ironic that a self-professed Mormon is implying that the entire Catholic Church is a heretical organization. Do you know that when you're Catholic, you're actually not required to tithe? It helps the Parish if you do, but tithing is not a prerequisite to either Heaven, or admission into the Catholic Church.

Danielost maybe you should take a good look at the CLDS before you start calling the Catholic Church "non-Christian". Catholics are just as Christian as any other denomination. Obviously you don't know much about the Catholic Church. As a former Catholic, I can guarantee that the Catholic Church is a Christian organization.

Chris·tian
n.
1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

1. A Christian is a person who professes to believe in Jesus Christ.
2. Catholics profess faith in Jesus Christ.
3. Therefore, Catholics are Christians.

They profess their faith in the Nicene Creed during mass.

it isn't required in the lds church either.

Do they need to accept the Bible as the sole source? Does it say anywhere in the New Testament that ONLY the Bible should be accepted?



"If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior, and that God resurrected him from the dead, than you will be saved."~Paul

According to Paul, as long as you have the above, you are a christian.


What's wrong with that? The NT says in there somewhere that things are supposed to be "decent and in order". Not to mention that nowhere does it state that a person should believe in "sola scriptura".

Galatians 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Isiah 8:20 To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.

2 Timothy 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of Go may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, an the Word was with God, and the Word was God....14 And the Word became flesh..

There are many more than the following three scriptures that say to follow the word or along those lines. Where are the ones that say to follow extrabiblical teachings again?

to recieve obsolution you have to say the rosemary or whatever it is called. ie hall mary mother of christ. or however it goes. That is praying to mary.

The catholics pray to everyone but christ. The priests are not allowed to marry but Christ stated that if you cannot take care of your family how can you take care of mine.

Mormon bishops are not payed to do their church callings. The Catholic priest at the least receive room and board.

Actually I don't pray to Christ either I pray to god through Christ as he instructed in his example the lords prayer.

1. Its absolution.
2. Rosemary is a song. Its the Hail Mary. Praying to Mary does not equate to worshiping Mary. Its basically a sign of respect for Mary. Catholics know that Mary isn't God. But she did give birth to the Christ, and according to Catholic tradition, she plays an important role in the life of Christ and the Church. Its a sign of respect, not worship.


Only a fool would assume the the Catholic Church doesn't pray to Christ. What are you, brainwashed?
The Nicene Creed, which is recited at EVERY MASS proves you wrong on this account.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen;
and in one Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, the only begotten, born of the Father before all ages.
Light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father; through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven and was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died and was buried.
He rose on the third day according to the scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he is coming again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of Life, who proceeds from the Father.
Together with the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified; he spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I profess one baptism for the remission of sins.
I expect the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
Amen

Also, during the Holy Mass, the Priest and the faithful pray specifically to Jesus Christ. Trust me, I've been going to Mass for 19 years, I've studied the Catholic Church inside and out, and believe me, I know a HELL of a lot more about the Catholic Church than some Mormon who has never attended a Catholic Mass.


Catholic Clergy, whether it be priests or nuns, dedicate their lives to their faith through a promise of faith, celibacy, and poverty. Priests and nuns are not rich men and women. The church provides for their basic needs. Nothing wrong with that.

However, if you feel such a need to be so critical of the Catholic Church from a completely false perspective, allow me some time critique Mormonism, except I'll actually do my research.


Good for you, Catholics pray the Our Father too.

There is one more thing that you have wrong. The Catholic church started 300 years after the resurection not before. Peter was not the first pope.

The Catholic church was also the cause of the dark ages.

Of all the people in history who have gotten a bad rap it is pilot. He did everything he could not to have to kill Christ short of causing a riot. I have heard that he may have died as a christian.

1. Its absolution.
2. Rosemary is a song. Its the Hail Mary. Praying to Mary does not equate to worshiping Mary. Its basically a sign of respect for Mary. Catholics know that Mary isn't God. But she did give birth to the Christ, and according to Catholic tradition, she plays an important role in the life of Christ and the Church. Its a sign of respect, not worship.


Only a fool would assume the the Catholic Church doesn't pray to Christ. What are you, brainwashed?
The Nicene Creed, which is recited at EVERY MASS proves you wrong on this account.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen;
and in one Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, the only begotten, born of the Father before all ages.
Light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father; through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven and was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died and was buried.
He rose on the third day according to the scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he is coming again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of Life, who proceeds from the Father.
Together with the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified; he spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I profess one baptism for the remission of sins.
I expect the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
Amen

Also, during the Holy Mass, the Priest and the faithful pray specifically to Jesus Christ. Trust me, I've been going to Mass for 19 years, I've studied the Catholic Church inside and out, and believe me, I know a HELL of a lot more about the Catholic Church than some Mormon who has never attended a Catholic Mass.


Catholic Clergy, whether it be priests or nuns, dedicate their lives to their faith through a promise of faith, celibacy, and poverty. Priests and nuns are not rich men and women. The church provides for their basic needs. Nothing wrong with that.

However, if you feel such a need to be so critical of the Catholic Church from a completely false perspective, allow me some time critique Mormonism, except I'll actually do my research.


Good for you, Catholics pray the Our Father too.

That has nothing to do with ANYTHING. I'm not discussing the Origins of the Holy Mother Church, nor the historicity of Peter and the early Popes, but were we to actually discuss people and organizations that have distorted history and blatantly made things up, why don't we talk about Joseph Smith while were at it?

The Catholic Church's historical origins have nothing to do with the fact that one way or another, the Church is a Christian organization. They believe in Jesus Christ, only Son of the Father, begotten, not made, born of the Virgin Mary, wholly God and wholly Man, who they believe was crucified, suffered unimaginable torments, then died, and in His death the Sins of Mankind were redeemed.

Thats pretty much Christianity right there.


This we can agree on. I sort of felt bad for him when I was a kid.