Could you please try and explain or help me to understand why a group of people who live humble lives as devout Muslims would wish to destroy the world biggest Buddha statues in Bumiyan? Archeologists from Afganistan have called the Taliban savages for destroying these masterpieces which highlight Afganistans rich cultural history due to the silk road trade routes.

-http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0301-04.htm

please check out this A-fighter I would be interested to hear your views on this.

QUOTE (Dante's Inferno @ Apr 10 2008, 01:50 AM)

Could you please try and explain or help me to understand why a group of people who live humble lives as devout Muslims would wish to destroy the world biggest Buddha statues in Bumiyan? Archeologists from Afganistan have called the Taliban savages for destroying these masterpieces which highlight Afganistans rich cultural history due to the silk road trade routes. Please check out this A-fighter I would be interested to hear your views on this.

Thank you for your question. I will try my best to answer it, but it will be very hard. Fisrt of all, the Taliban would never kill Hindus or Buddhists, so take that out of your mind. The Taliban commander, Mullah Mohammad Omar, wanted those statues to be destroyed, because... How can I explain this? Because when the statues were there, the International communities and organizations (such as New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art, the British Museum, Taiwan's National Palace Museum, and even Taliban friends such as Iran, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka) will give millions of dollars to save un-Islamic stone statues but not one cent to save the lives of Afghan men, women, and children.

There was no 'worldwide horror' or 'international outrage' when UN officials announced that more than 260 people have died in displacement camps in northern Afghanistan, where an additional 117,000 people are living in miserable conditions. (This was in 2001). Perhaps the only consolation in all of this is that these refugees may never know how much the world cared for some statues and how little it cared for them.

The Taliban government for more than a year had been requesting international humanitarian aid for a country ravaged by drought, earthquakes, and war. But foreign countries donated money (millions of dollars) to preserve these statues while most people in that country were struggling to find water and food for their families.

And these Afghan Archaeologists... They have their palaces and their servants (exaggerating) while their brothers and sisters are struggling to put food on the table. Why would the Taliban be 'savages'? If there was no reason for destroying it, then even I would disagree, but they knew what they were doing was for the sake of the people. As one Taliban member described it "Have you ever seen any decision of the Islamic Emirate (Taliban) reversed?".

I have made myself clear, but if you don't understand it, then tell me and I will (try to) make it even clearer.

I can finally start on the '9/11 conspiracy'. I already said that it was done by America themselves (Inside-Job). But now I will post some links to back up my claims.


At Least 7 of the 19 Hijackers are Still Alive.
Read this to find out the truth about the hijackers.

Mohamed Atta loved pork chops, and 49 other things you may not know.
This means that Mohamed Atta was not a devout Muslim, for we are not allowed to Pork.

What Muslim Would Write: 'The Time of Fun and Waste is Gone'?
I highly recommend that you read this, because it explains the mistakes Mohamed Atta and his friends had made.

BBC Videos reporting collapse of WTC-7 24 minutes before it actually happened!
What can I say?

Shaped Charges and the World Trade Center Collapses.
Photographs show how the WTC was taken down with surgical precision.

I can give you many more such links, but I will leave it at this for now. If anyone wants more information, please don't hesitate to ask, and I will answer your questions.

The quotes you mentioned are not very credible (but alas, finding good references is of course diffcult regarding this matter). BUt If we start discussing 9/11 (again) we should have the thread moved to another forum section

Anyway, you have made me see some positive sides about the Taliban, but what do you make of the large amounts of drug export from Afghanistan? Do you believe that manufacturing and exporting drugs is condoned by the Islam? After all, you have said to support that Taliban wholeheartedly...?

ohh boy its all a big game to some people!!

3rd time asking you...what rights do women have and why do men have highter rights? <--since you have dodged this question so often, im wondering if you are a real muslim

QUOTE (Pascal @ Apr 10 2008, 08:48 AM)

The quotes you mentioned are not very credible (but alas, finding good references is of course diffcult regarding this matter). BUt If we start discussing 9/11 (again) we should have the thread moved to another forum section

Yes, it is hard to find evidence to support one's ideas, for there are many different conspiracies surrounding 9/11. I don't think there are ANY 2 people in the world who believe that exactly the same happened as the other person does :D.

QUOTE (Pascal @ Apr 10 2008, 08:48 AM)

Anyway, you have made me see some positive sides about the Taliban, but what do you make of the large amounts of drug export from Afghanistan? Do you believe that manufacturing and exporting drugs is condoned by the Islam? After all, you have said to support that Taliban wholeheartedly...?

The Taliban, when they were in power, had a perfect solution to this drugs problem. Here is a section taken from the BBC's own website:

The Taliban's fight against opium production in Afghanistan was the "most effective" drug control policy of modern times, research suggests. During the 1990s, Afghanistan was the main source of the world's illicit heroin supply. But a UK study has found a Taliban crackdown on drugs led to global heroin production falling by two-thirds in 2001.

Look at the difference between 2001 and 2002! You can't even see Afghanistan in 2001, for that was when the Taliban were in control. In 2002, drug production increased dramatically, because that was when the United States had invaded our country. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3408353.stm.

So as you can see, the Taliban were against drugs, for it is not allowed in Islam. If you look at the differences in drug productions in Taliban times and US times (Now), you will be stunned. The people that grow poppy fields have got no other sources of income, so they will continue to do their jobs. I don't blame them, but the government, for they don't care about such people. They just come and destroy whole fields, which will leave the farmers without any money, and that should be avoided.

QUOTE (Beckys_Mom @ Apr 10 2008, 09:09 AM)

3rd time asking you...what rights do women have and why do men have highter rights? <--since you have dodged this question so often, im wondering if you are a real muslim

How dare you say these things about me? So you are telling me that throughout this thread, I did not ONCE mention the rights of women? Don't be stupid, I have explained this point to others, and yet you are telling me to answer your question again. Why do you act like this? Post #26? Did you read it? It contains the answer to your question. I am a real Muslim, and by 'dodging a question' it does not make me a Christian does it? There are people here that are asking me serious questions, but if you keep repeating yourself I will have no time to answer them.

I know and am friends with many muslim men, and i have seen how they act towards their wives/sisters/etc. I dont need anyone to explain to me to their religious or philosophical beliefs toward women. (this behaviour has been observed in Aust. by Australian muslims born here like me)

Don't sit there giving me your meaningless insults...I posted my question LONG after you made post 26....I dont have to go in to any thread and go through every last freaking post made...............you could have at least said look at post 26...before you begun to b*tch at me.....I asked you a straight forward question and I just looked at post 26 which is on page 2...all you did was post up stuff from your holy book....I didnt ask for this...I asked YOU for YOUR OWN personal view point as to WHY men have more rights and I dont see how women do have rights..the only thing they have is to obey their hubbys..thats not a right, its a rule

now if you cant answer a single question without b*tching and calling names..then dry your eyes and get on with it

Dont make threads you cant hadle!


WHAT? make you a christian?? there is only one or two that dodge questions the rest of the christians DONT...and they dont expect everyone to read every last post made..if anyone asks them a question that previously was answered several pages aerlier in the topic....they would be POLITE about it and say so...you DIFFER..with your ignorance

That is impressive indeed, but only amounts to one single year. Do you know what remedy was used? Or did the crops simply freeze or dry out in that particular year? I believe the Taliban have been in power for more than just one year, no? What about the other years?

Mind you, I am not an advocate of the Aghanistan "war" at all, I am just being critical and see a nice opportunity for debate in your openness regarding the matter.

QUOTE (Beckys_Mom @ Apr 8 2008, 12:42 PM)

What rights do the women have?

And why have the men have rights ABOVE women?

I never understood this at all...

Which post is this? #36! I thought you asked me before post #26? So I was right, I had answered this question already but you did not read it properly.

Thank-you for the topic. You confirmed my existing opinions and after reading your posts I like islam even less now.

sigh just either give your PERSONAL view or continue to moan and grumble....

are you some kind of index?? I mean I dont give a hoot for the earlier posts that are posted several pages back...............your making me dislike islam all the more too..your ignorance makes it flow that way

true that

Of course you know, Becky, that basing your opinion on a belief system on the posts one young Muslim has made, would be highly ignorant too

Just some harmless pun

QUOTE (Beckys_Mom @ Apr 10 2008, 11:32 AM)

sigh just either give your PERSONAL view or continue to moan and grumble....

are you some kind of index?? I mean I dont give a hoot for the earlier posts that are posted several pages back...............

Women have got many rights in Islam, but men have got more. And most women are happy with their rights... Men are considered to be higher because they are dominant. They are leaders. They can take control of the situation. There, that is my honest opinion.

But I asked you - WHAT rights do women have?? give a list if you can..that dont include the RULE to obey husbands

and I would like to know what the hell makes the male more dominate?? I mean that IMO is stupid...males are not more dominate....most have trouble with the word...like IE to spell it LMAO...ok jokes aside...but why are they considered more dominate?? it dont make sense!!

Thanks for the reply but like Becky I would like to have a deeper understanding of this. What does 'more dominant' mean. Because they may be stronger there is a might is right attitude?

Are men dominant because they have these rights? Might be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy IMO lol.

What rights are these? How do they manifest themselves in your society?

You seem to think you have answered these questions sufficiently, I don't see it, so humor me if you will

he is just a child yes but he comes to a board filled with adults and tries to make us all think he KNOWS ALL..so he has now made his bed, he should lay in it too

QUOTE (Pascal @ Apr 10 2008, 11:24 AM)

That is impressive indeed, but only amounts to one single year. Do you know what remedy was used? Or did the crops simply freeze or dry out in that particular year? I believe the Taliban have been in power for more than just one year, no? What about the other years?

It is true that the Taliban were in control of Afghanistan for about 5 years (1996-2001). But their crackdown on drugs began in 2001. I don't know why, but it seemed to be the right thing to do! Imagine of they had just taken control of the country, and they destroyed all the poppy fields, do you think anyone would support them? This is exactly what the Occupiers are doing right now. The Taliban paid the farmers some money to do something different, for example, grow vegetables. So they did it step by step, and in 2001 the plan had worked perfectly.

QUOTE (Pascal @ Apr 10 2008, 11:24 AM)

Mind you, I am not an advocate of the Aghanistan "war" at all, I am just being critical and see a nice opportunity for debate in your openness regarding the matter.

I see your point. Thanks for asking me such good questions and I hope my answers are clear.

Your answers, while somewhat shortcoming at times, are very appreciated. It is not easy for someone like you to battle these skeptic forums.

I have seen some reports, which I cannot reproduce here at work currently, that a large amount of the drug export money prior to the year it went down, has been used for the purchase of arms by the Taliban. What is your opinion on that "fact"?

QUOTE (Belqis @ Apr 10 2008, 11:39 AM)

Thanks for the reply but like Becky I would like to have a deeper understanding of this. What does 'more dominant' mean. Because they may be stronger there is a might is right attitude?

Are men dominant because they have these rights? Might be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy IMO lol.

What rights are these? How do they manifest themselves in your society?

You seem to think you have answered these questions sufficiently, I don't see it, so humor me if you will

I will give you a link to a website where I get a lot of my information from: http://www.answering-christianity.com/spiritual_equality.htm.

This subject is very hard to understand, for people keep referring to it and make fun of it. I will try one more time to settle this.

Allah Almighty ordered men in the Qur'an to take care of women and to protect them.

Noble Qur'an 4:34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard.

Men and Women are equal in one way but unequal in another way. Yes, they both have basic rights etc. But they have different roles in this life. I never said that men can do whatever they want and women have to do everything their husbands or their fathers tell them to do, because that is NOT true. A woman should take care of the family (Cooking, cleaning), and a man should take care of the home (including wife).

Yes a deeper and something more personal that comes directly from a muslim who can speak out and give an understanding is more appreciated than him sitting there copying and pating from a book!!

it hold no water

I don't think people are making fun of it. I am genuinely interested in the status of women in Islam. You know people from other cultures find this unpalatable and offensive. But honestly it is just a bit infuriating tiptoeing around the issue like you did.

We're gonna drag the rotten truth out of you anyways

Thanks for the reply

I know, I know

Why cant it be 50/50? why stay in the olden times ? why not get involved with modern times? the christian have had to move on...if they stuck with what their OT says..heck they'd still be stonning people to death and burning what thy believe are witches LOL

Times change A-Fighter...A women should be respected and given the choice whether she wants to marry or not...given the chance to have a good career...and the man giving support and doing the same

When a muslim moves to IE the states ot the UK/Ireland...the women DO have rights...they are out working just like the men.........a womans life is not just committed to having kids and cooking

Speaking of cooking, with the look at reality,...MEN are the BEST at it..they make the best cooks of all...so with that in mind then should a mans place be in the kitchen??

Why would God chose the woman to have the power to reproduce more humans? ........without the woman you wouldnt be here........could this mean God is female?

Exactly, tip toeing around it with copy and paste jobs all over with holy text just doesnt cut it............personal views on the other hand DO

It matters not the slightest what one muslim or a million claim is the real islam.
All that matters is the barbaric behavior of a significant number of it's followers, the breathtaking silence, denial and disconnect of many more in the greater body and how those realities compare to the rest of the world today.
And by that, islam has shown that it is simply not yet ready to co-exist peacefully with the modern civilized world.
Parts of the body? Sure, but not the whole to a degree anywhere near what it takes to pass that test.
Not to a degree anywhere near that of the other religions of the world today.

I hate to say this, but that's what happens when men are the dominate ones of islam...the violence and hate grows...women being more compasionate..wouldnt go that far

QUOTE (Pascal @ Apr 10 2008, 11:58 AM)

Your answers, while somewhat shortcoming at times, are very appreciated. It is not easy for someone like you to battle these skeptic forums.

I have seen some reports, which I cannot reproduce here at work currently, that a large amount of the drug export money prior to the year it went down, has been used for the purchase of arms by the Taliban. What is your opinion on that "fact"?

Hmm... I don't think that this can be true, because the Taliban themselves did not have any poppy fields. These were the local farmers. I myself would actually do it, because the drugs that they sell can also be used for a good cause (hospitals). Anyway, if they had sold their drugs to buy weapons, I would trust them on this, because they know what is right and what is not. The Qur'an has made some prohibited things (such as pork) allowed if your life is in danger. And the Taliban knew that a war could be coming up, so they did everything they could to prepare themselves.

This may be true, and maybe not, but it is my opinion, and I believe this is what happened.

Hi A-Fighter – Thanks to eight bits, I think I may have found the source of your quote; the following website:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/shdaut.htm

Here is the title, the name of the author, and the first paragraph...

Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition
The Myth and The Reality
By: Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D.- Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

PART 3 - SHAMEFUL DAUGHTERS
In fact, the difference between the Biblical and the Quranic attitude towards the female sex starts as soon as a female is born. For example, the Bible states that the period of the mother's ritual impurity is twice as long if a girl is born than if a boy is (Lev. 12:2-5). The Catholic Bible states explicitly that: "The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3). In contrast to this shocking statement, boys receive special praise: "A man who educates his son will be the envy of his enemy." (Ecclesiasticus 30:3)
-=-=-

Unfortunately, A-Fighter, it seems that the author Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D. is not honest in his presentations.
* He denigrates Leviticus 12:2-5 by innuendo.
* He distorts Ecclesiasticus 22:3 so blatantly, that his writing is an out-and-out lie.
* He misrepresents Ecclesiasticus 30:3 by distorting the meaning of what is written there.

A-Fighter, I hope your other sources have more credibility.

Here is a commentary on Leviticus 12:5, which I hope sheds some light of reason:
Lev 12:5 -
But if she had given birth to a girl, she was to be unclean two weeks (14 days), as in her menstruation, and then after that to remain at home 66 days. The distinction between the seven (or fourteen) days of the “separation for her infirmity,” and the thirty-three (or sixty-six) days of the “blood of her purifying,” had a natural ground in the bodily secretions connected with child-birth, which are stronger and have more blood in them in the first week (lochia rubra) than the more watery discharge of the lochia alba, which may last as much as five weeks, so that the normal state may not be restored till about six weeks after the birth of the child. The prolongation of the period, in connection with the birth of a girl, was also founded upon the notion, which was very common in antiquity, that the bleeding and watery discharge continued longer after the birth of a girl than after that of a boy (Hippocr. Opp. ed. Kühn. i. p. 393; Aristot. h. an. 6, 22; 7, 3, cf. Burdach, Physiologie iii. p. 34). But the extension of the period to 40 and 80 days can only be accounted for from the significance of the numbers, which we meet with repeatedly, more especially the number forty … (Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament).
-=-=-

Regarding Ecclesiasticus 22:3 -- the author, Sherif Abdel Azim twists and distorts the meaning to the extent that he loses all credibility.

Here is the URL for the whole book of Ecclesiasticus http://www.catholicdoors.com/bible/sirach.htm Also known as "The Book of Sirach."

22:3 A son ill taught is the confusion of the father: and a foolish daughter shall be to his loss.
22:4 A wise daughter shall bring an inheritance to her husband: but she that confoundeth, becometh a disgrace to her father.
22:5 She that is bold shameth both her father and husband, and will not be inferior to the ungodly: and shall be disgraced by them both.
-=-=-

Sherif Abdel Azim’s treatment of Ecclesiasticus 30:3 is dishonest. In my opinion, a self-respecting student of his should cringe in shame.

Here are the words copy-pasted from Ecclesiasticus. I hope you do see what I mean about "scholarly dishonesty"
30:1 He that loveth his son, frequently chastiseth him, that he may rejoice in his latter end, and not grope after the doors of his neighbours.
30:2 He that instructeth his son shall be praised in him, and shall glory in him in the midst of them of his household.
30:3 He that teacheth his son, maketh his enemy jealous, and in the midst of his friends he shall glory in him.

I hope that what I posted is helpful in distinguishing true and honest research. What do you think?

Well, whilst hospitals could use it, we both know that this is not the way 99% of the drugs were going. Mentioning an eventuality that is highly unlikely, and in this case not factual, is not a good argument.

And as far as I am informed, the Taliban have always been armed, not just in the interlude towards the war.

Correct me if I am wrong according to you though.

I applaud libertyworld's post by the way, in fact, I might quote him on that in the near future, as a concise answer as to why the current Islam-dislike/hate exists.

In respect to the female in Islam, I thought it would be worthwhile mentioning that the urge for emancipation only mildly exists. Mainly in Pakistan (urban) and Turkey (urban). In other Islam countries I have been to, women seem to happily accept their supression it seems to me. I can see how this sounds extrmely strange to an emancipated woman like for instance Becky.

But it, nonetheless is my experience.

QUOTE (Beckys_Mom @ Apr 10 2008, 12:11 PM)

Exactly, tip toeing around it with copy and paste jobs all over with holy text just doesnt cut it............personal views on the other hand DO

This is insulting. Are you here to ask questions or to spread your false ideas about Islam? "Copy and paste jobs all over with holy text"... You are the only person here that (only) wants people's opinions. Only you consider that as proof. People want to see what a religion itself says, and NOT one of it's followers. Who cares what I or any other Muslim thinks about women? Go back to the Scriptures, and see for yourself.

Very oppressive towards women, freedom etc.? Shall I give you some facts?

Here is one: Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world!

You want another one? Islam is the world's largest religion!

And here is the biggest fact of them all: Most people converting to Islam are not male, but female!

Let me tell you something: Islam is the fastest growing religion in America, in Europe, In Africa, in Asia, in Australia etc! Was it spread by the sword? Was it spread using any force? Of course not! These people have read the Qur'an and were instantly bonded to it, that is how powerful our Book truly is. Regarding the number of women who willingly converted to Islam, the number is much higher than for men (4 to 1). Is this because women are 'oppressed' and even 'tortured' in Islam? Haha who would believe such a thing?! This shows how misguided most people are regarding women in Islam and also on other subjects.

"The Violent Oppression of Women in Islam, is a graphic, nightmarish, and profoundly unsettling glance into the darkest recesses of our fellow man. Narrated by Nonie Darwish, this film accurately depicts the dehumanizing theology, brutal abuse, and degredation that comprise the daily lives of millions of women in the fascist portions of the Islamic world -- arcing like a crescent from sub-Saharan Africa, through Iran, to north-central Asia and reaching into hidden pockets of the United States. These acts include the honor killing of a seven-year-old girl, beheaded for having been the victim of sexual abuse; gang-rapes, occasionally perpetrated by family members, to punish women who refuse to wear the hijab; the regular marriage of grown men to nine-year-old girls, in imitation of Islam's founder, Muhammad; genital mutilation of infant girls to destroy their sexual pleasure and objectify them as outlets for the gratification of man's lust; the widespread, often public practice of wife-battery, a practice justified by the Koran; public stonings for violations of Shari'a law; and sadly, much, much more.Taken together, the images of this video are a grotesque and disturbing assault on the integrity of women. Under no circumstances should they be viewed by children.

However realistic the film, it is immeasurably less grotesque and disturbing than the daily lives of millions of women subject to Islamo-Fascist regimes. Only the insulated nature of the Islamic world, and the silence and acquiescence of Western feminists, allow this situation to continue. This silence is the greatest hope of Islamo-Fascism and the primary reason Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week is vitally needed: to end this misogynistic tyranny and allow all the world's inhabitants to experience the miracle of human dignity. This is precisely why there has been such a massive outcry against Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week. The national campaign to censor or subvert this educational program has involved the entire spectrum of enemies we face -- Islamo-Fascist theocrats on the extreme "right" to the Revolutionary Communist Party on the radical Left, both charter members of the Unholy Alliance that sees the United States as the world's Great Satan. Between the two poles are aspiring mainstream Arab "civil rights" organizations that apologize for terrorism and the theocratic strongmen who finance it."
http://www.noburqua.blogspot.com/2007/10/v...n-islam_22.html

January 3, 2008
UK: 66,000 women and girls have undergone female genital mutilation
Eurabia Alert. "The unspeakable practice of female circumcision that's destroying young women's lives in Britain," by Jo-Ann Goodwin and David Jones in the Daily Mail (thanks to Sugiero):

...During a highly disturbing, four-month investigation, however, we uncovered evidence that thousands of British-African girls, in towns and cities throughout the country, have been forcibly "cut".
By conservative estimates, 66,000 women and girls living in Britain have been mutilated. This figure, accepted by the Metropolitan Police, came in a report by a volunteer organisation funded by the Department of Health and carried out with academics from the London School of Tropical Hygiene and the City University.

And thousands more girls are at imminent risk as families club together to fly professional "cutters" from Africa to Britain.

These women "elders" perform the crude operation for up to £40 a time, often on kitchen tables or floors, without anaesthetic, using filthy, blunt knives, razor blades or scalpels.[...]

But of course, the increasingly dhimmi Daily Mail hastens to assure us, it has nothing to do with Islam:...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/019427.php

QUOTE (Karlis @ Apr 10 2008, 12:42 PM)

Hi A-Fighter – Thanks to eight bits, I think I may have found the source of your quote; the following website:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/shdaut.htm

I hope that what I posted is helpful in distinguishing true and honest research. What do you think?

That is not the website that I visited... But it is talking about the same thing. And yes, I think that the author mis-interpreted it. The meaning is different than what this man said. I am sorry that I used his comments.

We care because it is fine to quote text but we want an understanding of how that translates to the daily life/attitudes of the common person (that is what you are representing for us). I am interested in how religion and holy texts translate into the daily lives of people - different interpretations always abound, as you know. If men had less rights than women in another religion and hence culture you may be interested in that side as well.

Yes Pascal, although I have not visited any Muslim countries that is what I have percieved. If you are unaware of any other way - why would you think your existence was unsatisfactory? That is just the way it is. Perhaps that is why religion dislikes exposure to new concepts. Will be interesting to see how long it lasts Keep them away from the internet and Becky lol.

What do Islam teachings say about this practice?

QUOTE (Karlis @ Apr 10 2008, 01:02 PM)

What do Islam teachings say about this practice?

This website will help you: http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equityappendix.html.

A-fighter - am i right in thinking you didn't live in Afghanistan whilst it was under Taliban rule?

To reply to the latter:

It is interesting to see however, that in the countries that have better access to mass media, and none-Islamic television in particular, the urge slowly grows. Whilst for instance in Syria, none of the women indeed know any better. Deducing this, you could conclude that in countries women are aware of another way of being, they long for it. What does that say for Islam? Obviously, when given the chance, women do want to be equal.

disclaimer: I do understand that this is a very broad conclusion stemming from a very broad, subjective, fact/opinion.

Take Turkey (I know Turkey quite well, which is why I keep using it as an example) for instance.

In the North West (Istanbul, Izmir) women do not wear veils, nor do they actively practise Islam (talking about the women my age [20-30 on university]) whilst in the more rural (dare I say "backward"?) areas the mere notion of emancipation is met with forced none understanding.

Are the Islam women waiting for a way to escape? Take Ayaan Hirsi Ali as a prima example (an ex Muslim woman in Holland battling against the genital deformation of Islam women).

Never said it had anything to do with justice, but I like the idea of using criminals for basic labour - not worked to death like in Stalinist Russia of course. But the slave labour of criminals - as in, when they go into prison they lose every right they have except for your most basic humans rights (clean water, food, prison-decent beddings and toilet useage.)

But yeah, I understand the concepts of Sharia law, I just don't agree with it. Seems far too excessive for my taste.

QUOTE (Username Deleted @ Apr 10 2008, 01:11 PM)

A-fighter - am i right in thinking you didn't live in Afghanistan whilst it was under Taliban rule?

I was born in 1991 and the Taliban had taken control of Afghanistan in 1996. We left Afghanistan in 1997/1998. It is actually pointless to ask me about what I saw or something like that, because I don't remember much from my 'childhood'.

Sheesh, you are younger than I thought. I had hoped you would have experienced Aghanistan first hand.

QUOTE (Pascal @ Apr 10 2008, 01:19 PM)

Sheesh, you are younger than I thought. I had hoped you would have experienced Aghanistan first hand.

Haha. Sorry?

Fair enough. Kind of makes your justification of a backward ideology rather irrelevant then.

I admire your honesty whilst eagerly awaiting the day this mind set is relegated to a few pages in a history book.

No offense intended.

No offense mate, but you are simply too young to udnerstand.

Are you aware of the fatwa issued a few years ago by the sheikh of Al Azhar ,( which is one of the oldest Sunni Islamic institutes) equating drugs with alcohol as "khamr wa muskar" ? That means that the curse of those who sell, use, or even carry it applies to the Taliban ! Eating pork is something that affects the only the person who eats it, but selling drugs destroys lives & families, the most vulnerable being the young. Taliban cannot even hide behind a 'retaliation' excuse, because the availability of drugs destroys also the 'local' youth. I do not understand how can they switch positions so drastically from trying to destroy fields to selling the stuff!! Is it a matter of principle or expediency? How can they claim to be applying the rules of islam while committing what other muslims clearly see as 'Haram'?

QUOTE (tetisheri @ Apr 10 2008, 01:08 PM)

Are you aware of the fatwa issued a few years ago by the sheikh of Al Azhar ,( which is one of the oldest Sunni Islamic institutes) equating drugs with alcohol as "khamr wa muskar" ? That means that the curse of those who sell, use, or even carry it applies to the Taliban ! Eating pork is something that affects the only the person who eats it, but selling drugs destroys lives & families, the most vulnerable being the young. Taliban cannot even hide behind a 'retaliation' excuse, because the availability of drugs destroys also the 'local' youth. I do not understand how can they switch positions so drastically from trying to destroy fields to selling the stuff!! Is it a matter of principle or expediency? How can they claim to be applying the rules of islam while committing what other muslims clearly see as 'Haram'?

The Taliban have got many scholars among their ranks, so if they thought that selling drugs was prohibited, they would never have done it. (Maybe they did not even sell it. I am not really sure. Give me some time and I will find out).