Hi, I am a Muslim and I am here to explain Islam to those who are interested. As you may have noticed, there are MANY misconceptions about Islam today, such as 'Islam was spread by the sword' and 'Islam oppresses women'. If you have any questions or comments please don't hesitate to take part in this (friendly) discussion and I will try my best to answer them for you. This is a chance for everyone to come together and debate in a professional and appropriate way, and NOT to attack each other's faiths and religions.

The only thing I ask from you is to PLEASE stay on-topic and don't post any racist comments, because I don't want this thread to be closed by the Administrators. Thank you and have fun everyone!

“Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women.”

Why would men have a status above me?

Edit: I like how you gave yourself 5 stars!

Do you think the Talibon (sorry sp) treated women as they should be treated according to Islamic beliefs.

Note* You might ask the Mods to move this to Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs, the skeptics will eat you alive in here.

QUOTE (Belqis @ Apr 7 2008, 11:38 PM)

“Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women.”

Why would men have a status above me?

I don't know where you got that quote from, so I can't really say something about that. Anyway, men have got rights over women, BUT women also have rights above men.

Noble Qur'an 4:36. Worship Allah and join not any partners with Him; and be kind to your parents...

In this verse, Allah Almighty tells us to love our parents. So not only our fathers, but also our mothers. Here are three Hadiths that really show the importance of your mother (a woman!).

According to a hadîth, Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) has said "Do good to and serve your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your father, then the near relatives and then those who come after them." (Mazhari).

A man came to the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and said: O Messenger of Allah! Who from amongst mankind warrants the best companionship from me? He replied: "Your mother." The man asked: Then who? So he replied: "Your mother." The man then asked: Then who? So the Prophet replied again: "Your mother." The man then asked: Then who? So he replied: "Then your father." (Sahîh Bukhârî 5971 and Sahîh Muslim 7/2).

The Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) also said in a famous narration: 'Paradise lies at the feet of your mother' (Musnad Ahmad, Sunan An-Nasâ’i, Sunan Ibn Mâjah).

And there are many more Hadiths and verses from the Qur'an which tells us to respect women and that they have got their own rights. It is very common for people to say 'Islam hates women' and 'Women are tortured in Islam', but these people forget one thing: Most of the people that are converting to Islam are not men, but women! Imagine if all these lies were true, do you think even ONE woman would convert to Islam? NO. So this shows that they are lying, for there are far bigger numbers of women who accept Islam than there are men. This can only be explained by the fact that the media is spreading false ideas about our beautiful religion, and many people fall into their traps.

Surah 4:34 Men shall take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truely devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!

--

2:193 Hence, fight against them until there is no more opprossion and all worship is devoted to God alone but if they desist then all hostillity shall cease, save against those who willfully do wrong.

I used this line on purpose because it's meaning is that muslims to practice their faith how they want to do it freely, without outside influence and to justify to it's believers that their faith is better then everybody else and to kill them at the first sign of trouble for the freedom of islam to flourish.


Spreading islam by the sword and oppressing women. Direct quotes from the koran. Not very warm and fuzzy in my opinion.

And I gave it zero. HA!

Sorry my bad: Qur'an, 2:228.

Maybe you have another discernment of it?



you cheeky young pup. Although Hershiel made me giggle.

I'd feel more comfortable if I had not previously debated you on evolution, and watched you call modern research "lies" and quoted Harun Yahya as more accurate than the combined scientific community. You also got quite irrate? Not very peacful as I remember you pal. I would like to have seen you offer something in the other thread where I was asking genuine questions, and helped along by the very well spoken and patient EmpressStarXVII. I am still digesting the links, insights and thoughts this wonderful individual had the time to direct me to. I look forward to a better understanding of Islam.
I do not think anyone qustioned their mother, I believe the focus of the question is wives and duaghters.
No doubt the radicals and fundamentalists give everyone a bad name, but with passages prevalent on the internet like

Sura (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females"

Sura (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them

Sura (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it"

Sura (24:31) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye

Sura (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

How can one interpret such sayings as anything but negative? Many cultures do not consider speaking out against another in such a degrading fashion as acceptable, regardless of the context. It is not only religion I feel, but cultures as well. Understanding both will no doubt offer a far more global amicable situation.

how many times are you ppl. gonna post this same topic! its getting old....

honestly- i dont care about any issues islam has

Here's another that I feel can only be seen as a negative comment-
Sura IV.34: “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. God is high, supreme.”

I am new to this section of the forum. Actually, going by the last three threads on the subject, very few are prepared to contribute. As such, no doubt many questions about this faith abound. It is great to have a representative explain their point of view - to be fair you must listen to both points of view. I feel the questions being asked are relevant and informative.

If you do not care, why enter and make negative comments? Why not avoid what you see so often anyway? It is not like several active threads abound currently. I for one am genuinely interested to hear each side of the story. If any topic cops a beating, it is evolution. Heck, how many pages have also been devoted to the theoretical squashing of a worm? Fair go m8.

I like this section far better. One can ask a straighforward question without being accused of bashing.

That that's me out lol for my comments on this issue could strike you as racist..so to save the trouble...thanks but no thanks!

Would have joined the debate but seing as you are dishonest from the very first question asked to you this shows how much worth your explanations hold.
To say the muslim fairth doesn't place men over women is to call your own god a liar!

Is it true whats written in the quran is gods word and that it cannot be altered, denied or falcyfied?

yes that is supposedly true so how can you explain this-Taken from Ibn Warraq "If anything, the wider textual context makes things worse for those apologists of Islam who wish to minimize the misogyny of the Koran. The oppression of women has divine sanction, women must obey God and their men, who have divine authorization to scourge them. One Muslim translator, Yusuf Ali, clearly disturbed by this verse adds the word “lightly “in brackets after “beat “even though there is no “lightly “in the original Arabic. An objective reading of the entire Koran (that is the total context) makes grim reading as far as the position of women is concerned. There are at least forty passages in the Koran that are misogynistic in character"

You know, I have come across where women seem to have certain rights above men, even rights that women do not have in Christianity today, from my understanding. Are there any other rights women have above men?

I am also curious, where did you get the facts about the majority of those convering to Islam are women. Not that I do not disagree with you, I just like see how you got them, that is all.



I agree, that more should be expressing their side of Islam. Before, it was just one or two, and one particular that is only one side, that I cannot agree on or get passed some very expressive one sidedness. Anyhow, I think it has been nice to see some more come in and educate on Islam, and see it done with patience and intelligence. I think we need more, and I am not saying that there is too many on Christianity I don't think so, but it should be well rounded and fair. I'm glad to see a lot of thread on Wiccan and Paganism. I do wish there were more on Judism. I maybe wrong, but I haven't seen many on the this.

Yes I agree - particularly about the Judism. It would be good to get their perspective on the OT.

I would be interested to know where he got his statisics from too. A Fighters sources in the past have been very dubious.
I agree, my interest in the faith has been curbed by my fear. EmpressStar has been an excellent ambassador and has piqued my interest dramatically. I take massive interrest in such ancient cultures and traditions. I'd like to know if I am getting the full story from the media. It would appear not.

Be nice guys A-fight is 16 and new to the forum. Maybe one of the mods can merge this thread with the other threads about Islam.

Why do you think that these misconceptions exist? And I would agree that Islam is sometimes unfairly maligned in the media. But just in general why do you think this has happened to Islam?

I debated him on evolution in the Crypto forum quite some time ago. Maybe a year ago? He has been around awhile.
I have been watching this for the last couple weeks, there seems to be a great deal more threads active on evolution and Christianity?

As Psyche said, there was no need for another thread. The one created by him, already had a very interesting discussion going.

As I have explained in the other thread already; I am not a Muslim, I live in Western Europe and am of Italian/German origin. I have many Muslim friends however, and frequently visit various countries having Islam as main religion. That said, I believe judging Islam as a whole is difficult, as the radicalism and fundementalism (which I think we will all object to) is rather centered in a few countries (or at least their breeding grounds are). Making a parallel between for instance Turkey (a highly secularized state - although argueably less so due to the recent President) and Pakistan is simply ludacris. These two countries have teh same faith (Islam) but vastly differ in exercizing it. Even within Turkey, you will see a huge difference between the North Western (urban) part, and the South Eastern (rural) part.

I do agree with the backward female position however, and have no argument against it sadly.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:51 AM)

I'd feel more comfortable if I had not previously debated you on evolution, and watched you call modern research "lies" and quoted Harun Yahya as more accurate than the combined scientific community. You also got quite irrate? Not very peacful as I remember you pal. I would like to have seen you offer something in the other thread where I was asking genuine questions, and helped along by the very well spoken and patient EmpressStarXVII. I am still digesting the links, insights and thoughts this wonderful individual had the time to direct me to. I look forward to a better understanding of Islam.

I remember you very well.... But why do you say such things about me? This is exactly why I made this thread, to clear misconceptions. You say that I did not trust the whole scientific community, but only Harun Yahya? NO, it is unfair for you to say such things. Did I say the same thing about you? You are spreading lies (about me) and that is the precise reason why Islam has got such a negative name! You should have left the old debate and concentrate on this one, for now everyone suspects me of lying and deceiving etc. which is NOT true!

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:51 AM)

I would be interested to know where he got his statisics from too. A Fighters sources in the past have been very dubious.

Again, you say something which is not true. My sources are always authentic and if they weren't, I would not bother to use them as sources.

Anyway, I get some of my statistics from a man called Dr. Zakir Naik. This man has a lot of knowledge, for he can quote the Qur'an, the Bible, and various other scriptures by heart. He has got his own channel: Peace TV, and it is one of the best ways to understand Islam. I also get my facts from websites such as www.answering-christianity.com and www.freewebs.com/islamiway (My brother's website).

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:51 AM)

I do not think anyone qustioned their mother, I believe the focus of the question is wives and duaghters.

Don't twist any words here, for that is the one thing I hate the most. She asked about women and in my dictionary a mother is a woman. But to make it fair, I will answer your question.

100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam.

Does this mean that 4 in 5 people converting to Islam are mothers :D? It doesn't. It means female (daughters, mothers, wifes etc.) I only wanted to point out that mothers are very important, and you got the idea that it is only the mother, and not the rest of the women. I am sorry if I have confused anyone, for that was not my intention.

QUOTE (Darkwind @ Apr 7 2008, 11:54 PM)

Do you think the Talibon (sorry sp) treated women as they should be treated according to Islamic beliefs.

I am sorry, but I can't answer this question. I am from Afghanistan myself and know what you are talking about, but I simply can't answer it. If I said 'Yes' then I would be called a terrorist. If I said 'No' then I would be lying :D. Seriously now, I am sorry for not answering your question but feel free to ask something different.

QUOTE (Belqis @ Apr 8 2008, 12:51 AM)

Sorry my bad: Qur'an, 2:228.

Maybe you have another discernment of it?

Noble Qur'an 2:228. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

In other words, Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are "a degree above them." I am not a scholar so I can't really add much to this, but you get the idea. Of course men should have (some) rights above women, for men are more 'dominant'.

With all due respect young man, the precise reason Islam has such a negative connotation currently, is because one of your brethren landed a plane in a skyscraper. Not because people have spread lies about Islam.

This incident has started a chain reaction of events and media hypes (and global attention), and whilst I am an advocate of Islam; while setting things right, one needs to stick to the facts.

QUOTE (Watchful @ Apr 8 2008, 05:24 AM)

You know, I have come across where women seem to have certain rights above men, even rights that women do not have in Christianity today, from my understanding. Are there any other rights women have above men?

Yes, I can give you several verses from the Qur'an + the Bible regarding women.

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners (Eve picking from the forbidden tree) {Genesis 2:4-3:24}.
The Qur'an Clarifies it was Adam, not Eve {Noble Qur'an 7:19-25}.

2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a loss" {Ecclesiastics 22:3}.
The Qur'an says both are an Equal Blessing {Noble Qur'an 42:49}.

3. The Bible forbids women from speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}.
The Qur'an says women can argue with the Prophet {Noble Qur'an 58:1}.

5. In The Bible, widows and sisters do not inherit any property or wealth {Numbers 27:1-11}.
The Qur'an abolished this male greed {Noble Qur'an 4:22}.

6. The Bible also asks women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}.

7. Women were given rights to Vote less than 100 years ago in the US, while the Qur'an gave women voting rights more than 1,400 years ago.

QUOTE (Watchful @ Apr 8 2008, 05:24 AM)

I am also curious, where did you get the facts about the majority of those convering to Islam are women. Not that I do not disagree with you, I just like see how you got them, that is all.

That would be Peace TV, where Zakir Naik gave a public lecture, and also from various websites.

Deary me, I am not sure if you are the right person to advocate your religion when you are making convinced statements like this. I for one, can tell you my girlfriend would rightfully disagree with you. You are obviously a perfect example of what we are against here: you seem to be so indoctrinated by your religion, that you actually agree to the lesser position of women because they are... less dominant? Since when does dominance justify a sociologically lesser or higher position?!

How do these rights manifest themselves in modern-day Islam?

Edit: oh and what Pascal said lol.

QUOTE (Pascal @ Apr 8 2008, 10:53 AM)

With all due respect young man, the precise reason Islam has such a negative connotation currently, is because one of your brethren landed a plane in a skyscraper. Not because people have spread lies about Islam.

You are 50% right here. First of all, 9/11 was NOT the work of Muslims. There is a FAR larger reason behind this attack which most of us have no knowledge about. Let me (try to) explain it to everyone.

9/11 was done by Israel & CIA, to give Muslims a very bad name + to start 2 wars (Afghanistan and Iraq). Bush wanted to have an excuse to control Iraqi oil and he wanted to defeat the Taliban before they could spread Shariah to other countries. They tell us '19 Muslims bombed the Twin towers', but I tell them 'More than half of the 19 people that they accused are still alive!'. How can a person who is hiding in caves (Osama) bypass the CIA, FBI, Mossad (Israel) and attack America in such a way? It was all an excuse, a big lie to attack and control the Islamic countries, and the media was a large contributor to this crazy plan of Bush.

I am sorry, but without sources, I will give your post no credit at all. Touching upon such a sensitive "conspiracy" subject without proper proof, is just empty words. But let's not discuss 9/11 since that will certainly make your topic derail

I remember the Dolphin with legs thread as well.

No? You said no such thing?



In refernce to scientific journals



Don't remember those bits? Berkley simply not true?
I offered a link above to the thread so you may refresh your memory. I must say when you called me a liar, you were very polite about it



I would have quite enjoyed a debate, but you ended up posting links and cutting and pasting straight from sites, without even looking at the many links I provided.



Like your brothers website? I showed you Harun Yahaya was using outdated information. You refused to believe me. Not much I can do when you refuse to accept latest findings and theories.



Anyone able to verify those statistics? I am not saying they are incorrect, it is just that corroboration tends to lead to a more convincing outcome.



Sorry you see it that way. I have no interntion of making you out to look like a liar, I am sure you are not, I am simply trying to bring you up to date on the latest scientific findings to ammend what you know so it is more accurate. I hope to proliferate as much Internet as I can with things that are factual in regards to the many myths that reside in today's society.

I see Mothers treated differently from other women who are not all the time. Everyone loves a Mum! In my dictionary a man is male, but he is not a boy.



Thank you for the answer. I shall have a look to see if anyone else can verify these statistics.
I find it hard to believe many women would willingly convert to Islam considering your closing statement on this post.



This is what concerns a great deal of the world. This is wrong. Why is a women worth less than a man? I'd be lost without my good wife. Half a person. Also, I do not think you would be called a terrorist for your view of women, but many other terms certainly apply.

Oh for Pete's sake.

Maybe time to close the thread already.

Could you re-check the source of this verse, please?

Speaking of negative names...your own ID is pretty much just that..well in a way it is...it isnt exactly a peacful name lol...hey im not trying to be ignorant I just couldnt help but spot this LOL

here's a question for you...is there such a thing as a non believer in a muslim country? if so what happens to them?

Or is it that everyone has to believe in the faith? is there even a choice?

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 11:49 AM)

No? You said no such thing?

You have mis-read (or I have confused you) what I said. I made this new thread, and you come with a discussion which had ended months ago. You have no right to say that you posted facts and I posted mistakes etc. I told you to leave that alone, and start again in this thread, because now everyone thinks that you had beaten me in a debate and that I did this and that.... Did I mention anything from our last debate? This is what I wanted to ask you. No, and you shouldn't either, so leave it alone.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 11:49 AM)

I find it hard to believe many women would willingly convert to Islam considering your closing statement on this post.

Is there something wrong with it? Please tell me.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 11:49 AM)

This is what concerns a great deal of the world. This is wrong. Why is a women worth less than a man?

If man and woman were (exactly) equal, then why do men need 2500 calories a day and women only 2000? This is because men are more active and they need a lot of energy. This is a fact. If they were equal, then why are there millions more male soldiers in the world than there are women soldiers? This is because men are stronger and more capable than women. Another fact. If men and women were equal, then why in the event of a disaster (such as the Titanic), do they say 'Women and children first (in the escape boats)'? There are many such examples, which all add up to say that men and women are not equal.

Don't start to think that I said 'Women have no rights (at all)' because that means you have not understood me. Women have got their own rights, and men have got their own rights, but men have got some rights above women.

What rights do the women have?

And why have the men have rights ABOVE women?

I never understood this at all...

What you are saying then is."they are all equal but some are more equal than others "



fullywired

Men and women are unequal. Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Everything else is detail.

QUOTE (Beckys_Mom @ Apr 8 2008, 11:21 AM)

Speaking of negative names...your own ID is pretty much just that..well in a way it is...it isnt exactly a peacful name lol...hey im not trying to be ignorant I just couldnt help but spot this LOL

Here is a definition of my name: Fighter = Someone who fights for a cause. It does not have to be a bad cause, but it can also be a good cause...

QUOTE (Beckys_Mom @ Apr 8 2008, 11:21 AM)

here's a question for you...is there such a thing as a non believer in a muslim country? if so what happens to them?

Or is it that everyone has to believe in the faith? is there even a choice?

Here is a section from a website that will answer your question:

The Muslims have to pay taxes (which is 2.5 percent of their annual income) under the name of "Zakah" to the "Muslim Financial Institute" or the "House of the Muslim Money" which all goes to provide welfare to the poor and the needy citizens; from both Muslims and non-Muslims. The poor and the needy (such as the Orphans, Widows and the disabled) from the Muslims are exempt from paying taxes.

The non-Muslims have to pay a varying amount under the name of "Jizyah", depending on their situation, which is taxes that don't go to help poor and needy Muslims, but instead, it goes to the government to (1) Provide protection for them since they are a minority; (2) Provide means for them to practice their religions freely by building Temples or Churches for them.

As I mentioned above for the non-Muslims, there are exemptions for the poor, for females and children (according to Abu Hanifah), for slaves, and for monks and hermits.

It is important to know that the law in the Islamic State applies to everyone; both Muslims and non-Muslims equally. This means that murderers and rapists get executed, adulterers and adulteresses get flogged 100 stripes, etc...

If Muslims conquered a State by war then the non-Muslims are to be taken as slaves, and later on, they must be given their freedom if they request it and be paid some money too.

No, no confusion, that is why I offered links and quotes. I can see why you would want to drop this. People can see you are not a new member as mistakenly claimed by another member.
I made my point, consider our old debate dropped.



If I need to tell you what is wrong withthis, you have some real problems.



Well. I have worked in construction all my life, and ended up reasonably fit as a result. I am probably much stronger than you physically. Do I have rights over you?
You are kidding, you do not know why a man would send women and children to safety before themselves? This is not a right, it is the right thing to do. I could never let a child perish to save myself. No sir. Women have rights equal to that of men. We would be a mess without them. They are our backbone and support, they deserve our support and respect.

QUOTE (Karlis @ Apr 8 2008, 11:18 AM)

Could you re-check the source of this verse, please?

I am sorry, when I entered the real name (Ecclesiastes), the spell-checker did not recognize the word, so I had to change it to that (Ecclesiastics).

You posted this in the wrong part of the fourm if you want us to get along with you. On this part of the fourm your asking for it.

What is this? You can't whine when some one makes a better arugement against you. There are no do-overs....

uneasy bit begins. Why fight? Not necessary in todays world. It seems that this faith has a lot of fighting associated with it. Peacful negotiations are possible.



Why did the teacher who named the teddy bear have to flee for her life then? Many called for her beheading when anyone could see it was a simple misunderstanding that I am sure the lady would have happily apologised publically for. Every answer does not have to be stoning or beheading. Everytime something happens in that part of the world, people are being threatened and killed. It does little to express a message of peace.

Do you advocate the terrorist actions in the name of your faith, or do you dennounce them? I mean actions like Bali, where the assasins happily take the credit for killing innocents.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 11:58 AM)

If I need to tell you what is wrong withthis, you have some real problems.

This is precisely the reason why I don't like to debate with you, for I have asked you a simple question and you reply in attack-mode! Just make your question clearer and I will reply to you, simple.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 11:58 AM)

Well. I have worked in construction all my life, and ended up reasonably fit as a result. I am probably much stronger than you physically. Do I have rights over you?

This is not the issue, for there are kids that are even stronger than you :D. I was not talking about strength, like weightlifting or boxing, but more like a normal strength, the one that you are born with and stays with you your whole life. You know what? If I continue to add to this subject about women being 'weaker' than men, it will cause hate towards me. So I will let it rest for the moment.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 12:05 PM)

Why did the teacher who named the teddy bear have to flee for her life then? Many called for her beheading when anyone could see it was a simple misunderstanding that I am sure the lady would have happily apologised publically for. Every answer does not have to be stoning or beheading. Everytime something happens in that part of the world, people are being threatened and killed. It does little to express a message of peace.

That part of the world? Africa... I have not heard much about 'Islamic Terrorism' in that part of the world. Anyway, I would not have killed her, for that was a mistake which every non-Muslim could have made. My real name is Mohammad too, and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is a good thing to call yourself Mohammad, but not a teddy bear. And anyway, it had a happy ending, didn't it?

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 12:05 PM)

Do you advocate the terrorist actions in the name of your faith, or do you dennounce them? I mean actions like Bali, where the assasins happily take the credit for killing innocents.

No, I don't like these people (Bali, London, Madrid), who kill innocent bystanders and civilians. There is no reason to do such things.

I think there may be other reasons as well

Sorry you see that as attack mode, I am sure many members see your belitteling of women as an attack.
Make the question clearer? I am not sure how. Perhaps it is a language barrier we are experiencing.

Man have no rights above women.



Kids, are there? Maybe, I've not seen any personally. I have seen pictures of some women though that could pick you and I up and tie us in a knot. Bodybuilding women require more calories than you or I. What stays with you your whole life is your self respect. Not some right. Respect has to be earned, even by yourself. The body can be tempered. My wife is much stronger mentally than most people I know, definitely including many men.
And yes, you are already unpopular for the belief that man have rights over women. It is akin to slavery in most places these days.

sarcasm /on
Heck, women are allowed to use elevators and everything over here!

Yes, Sudan in Africa.
Happy ending? I beleive she is still in hiding. British Muslims rallied to have her beheaded as well. She was snuck out of the country amongst howls of disgust as she was not given the 100 lashes it was believed she deserved. Link for anyone who missed the story.
Men are allowed to bear the prophets name, but nobody else isn't it? Aren't many Muslim men given the name Mohammad? I believe it is also forbiden to create an image of the prohpet Mohammad?
As a teacher, she should have been more aware of the local customs, I do agree, but I thought this incident went a bit far.

This incident may not be prevalent of the faith. That is why I started asking EmpressStar about the faith, I am sure that the media portrays the faith with a biased slant - it would sell papers. I must say it sure makes one uneasy to see such a community outburst for a killing though. Rather barbaric. It does not have to be terrorist action to be wrong. Killing is wrong.



Thank you for your opinion, I am happy to hear it. Even war is wrong, but inevitable I guess. Just a question, do you think that the world must change to Islam, or do you think that the world can reside with Islam?

You "will let it rest"? So whenever the debate points towards you losing it, you, in all your grace, let it rest?

Answer the questions please, the physical strength (upon birth) does not justify any different treatment of man, and woman, not even the evolutionairy other physical attributes do (i.e. men having tunnel sight, while women have a wide sight, etc.). Following your logic, a stronger, or better looking man, would deserve better treatment than a "lesser" man?

It simply does not add up, mate.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:40 PM)

Happy ending? I beleive she is still in hiding.

I can't find any updates to this story, but I do remember Sky News reporting that she was back in the UK, at her home in Liverpool.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:40 PM)

As a teacher, she should have been more aware of the local customs, I do agree, but I thought this incident went a bit far.

I am with you on this. It was exaggerated and there was no need for that. But then again, if people did not stand up to this (Not in the way that they did recently), more people would start doing it. That is the only reason that I can give you, that others might do the same thing.

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:40 PM)

Men are allowed to bear the prophets name, but nobody else isn't it? Aren't many Muslim men given the name Mohammad? I believe it is also forbiden to create an image of the prohpet Mohammad?

We name ourselves after the Prophet (Peace be upon him) to show our respects and to show that we follow the same religion as he did. When you name a teddy bear after a Prophet, you have no respect for him, and your intentions must be negative (Unless you have no knowledge of these things).

QUOTE (psyche101 @ Apr 8 2008, 01:40 PM)

Thank you for your opinion, I am happy to hear it. Even war is wrong, but inevitable I guess. Just a question, do you think that the world must change to Islam, or do you think that the world can reside with Islam?

And thank you for asking me this question. If the world could not live with Islam in the backyard, then World War 1 would have started 1400 years ago :D.

Here is a well-known quote: "The Western people worry that Nuclear weapons might one day fall in the hands of the Arabs. But they fail to realize that the Islamic Bomb has already been dropped - It fell on the day that Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him) was born." -- Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson.