Hello guys,

Recently, some ogject were found by a friend of mine, these objects seem to be very old belonging to a very old civilization. Can anyone figure out what these things are, strange symbols are present on them, please inform me if someone can understand what these stuff are.

Symbols found on the CUP
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The CUP
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The Bottle
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where did he find these artifacts? If this is the real deal, I would NOT let these artifacts out of my sight.

Please help me identifying them first, we'll then proceed to check their genuinity. I need an identification, then I'll say where they were found, I am open for any deal with anyone serious and willing to help find out what these objects are.

P.S.; The bottle in the photo, seems to have a dense liquid inside, when close to a cell phone the display of the cell would go off!!

The symbols look Enochian to me, I can't remember details of Enochian culture, all you have to do is search for Enochian Symbols on your search engine and you will find that they are very similar to what you have found on the cup.

ok, ok, they do look real, being skeptical is what I know. Go to www.historian.net/hxwrite.htm for some keys to ancient writing and their symbols.

Thank you all for the replies and help.
I will check further and inform you what i find out. Any further updates are welcome.

if that stuff makes your cell display go off i would cap that bottle might not be safe to be breathin it. You're very lucky. Don't take them to a museum

sounds like the bottle or its contents might be magnetic if it's interfearing with electronics like that.

welcome to UM by the way.

My first impression: voodoo artifacts.

The scripture looks like a group of 'sigils'.

So, if this is true, then maybe the place those artifacts were found is Haiti, Brasil or the west coast of Africa.

Assuming theres a hollow space at the base of the cup, it looks like it might actually be a percussion instrument. You put round pieces of hide over the top and the bottom and lash them together. You'd hold the thing between your knees and squeeze on the lashes with your knees to adjust the tone.

remember seeing a video an youtube about a dense magnetic liquid. i dont know if it was natural or man made, maybe thats whats in it?

Any help is appreciated, more objets, any clue???

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Can anyone please identify these objects?

Do you really want an answer, yes?

Then tell us where you found these objects.

You and your friend could have easily made them yourselves, and are now showing them to us and have a bit of fun with what we might think they are.

If you seriously want an answer - assuming you didn't create the artifacts yourself - then tell us where you found them.

And show all of the artifacts at the same time in one post, don't keep showing new ones every other time.

Not at all, please Abramelin, I'm so serious, no tricks here, I myself want to know what this stuff is. I'm not tricking anyone here, so please if you know something about what this might be give me a hint! I ASSURE YOU I DID NOT CREATE THEM MYSELF. As for where they were found, it's exactly because we're serious we prefare not to say!!! Wouldn't you have done the same. The only hint I can give is that they were found in a mediterranean country. I hope you can help.

bogcreeper,

I looked at all the fonts you suggested, nothing found. escept if the letters would change when used in a word like the case in arabic language.
Any other suggestions?

Are these more symbols or an alphabet?

Despite what you told me in private, I must say several symbols resemble Kharoshti script,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:YingpanKharoshthi.jpg

But that script originated, like Sanskrit, Latin, Etruscan, Hebrew, and Greek script, from the old Phoenician script:

http://karenswhimsy.com/ancient-languages.shtm


OK, my next guess is Spain, Tunesia or Lebanon/Syria (thinking of Phoenicians of course).

What State or location did you find these in? I ask this b/c edgar cayce talked about certain artifacts from the atlanteans being unearthed and he gives the specific region. The fact that you found this in a mine intrests me greatly.

OMG, the Atlanteans....

Do they turn up every time someone finds something we don´t immediately recognize?

Thank you all for th input, however i still canot find any empirical match. Though i find some similarities, but still no match.

If any of the objects are 'authentic' then you need to notify the relevant authorites. Not only will they be able to correctly handle such items but also put them to better use than parading them about a website, some museums offer donations to people who find artifacts of worth. If they turn out to be real, which im in doubt, surely they would be better in a museum where people can view their heritage instead of you secretly keeping them. Why wont you reveal the location of these finds ? they are in very good conditon to say that none of the collection are broken or in pieces (unusual, even for a professional dig) if you want help then at least give basic knowledge, location, material, other items in collection etc... otherwise there is no point in asking for peoples views.

The only reason someone would not want to reveal the location would be because they want to monopolize the area in case any more artifacts are there for the potential of profit. The land also might belong to someone else and the laws of the country might make the property of the state. If they are real the location should be revealed to the proper scientific community so that it can be properly excavated and protected.

I would especially be interested in if they are Phoenician or Carthaginian for they would shed information on their religious beliefs. They do appear highly ritualistic or mythological in nature.

I think that it makes more sence not to tell things and to keep them for yourself. He dose not know who comes here and I think that he is giving enough trust by showing them to you. I would not say something if I found something like that. I would want to learn all I can about it first, and then I would think about turning it in...after I talked to a lawyer or something so I knew my rights first.

Hi and welcome to UM....I have a question, without disclosing the location....Were these objects dug up, found in a cave, etc...Just curious as to how they came into your possession....Some are very beautiful.....

Thank you all, and specially "The Raven", you are absolutely right. Now I still did not find any match, so all input is welcome.
Regards

Goalienan,
please let me know where you think the origine of this stuff is, and then i'll tell you in private where they were found.

I will speculate that they were found some where between the Ohio and Pueblo. Compared to what has been found in the Ohio they appear much, much older. The script though is puzzling but I would also guess that it is correctly read from right to left. It appears they are made from sand and pebble.

I'm trying to find anything that might explain some of the writings/symbols but only come close...

It almost looks like this template(whish is a type of rune) but not quit.. (1) this is from German tribes in central and Eastern Europe..

(2)This is from Negev desert of Israel

As anyone can read, my first guess was "voodoo", but that was mostly based on the figurines in combination with some of the symbols.

But soon after that I got more and more convinced that the script was some form of Phoenician writing, or a script developed out of Phoenician writing.

Then I looked around and found a script (developed from Phoenician) that looked rather similar to what's been posted in the first post here: Kharoshti.

Although what Parabellum told me could indicate I was wrong, I also like to point to the fact that people travel: someone could have taken the figurines with them from another place far away. So the place the figurines was found was maybe not the place were they originated.

And that place where the Kharoshti sript was in use was in the north-west corner of the Indian subcontinent, and it was first in use around 2-300 BC, but it is suggested that it may have been in use much longer.

Here's a pdf file about he development of that script:
http://andrewglass.org/downloads/Glass_2000.pdf

I would like to say: never mind the text, just look at the pictures.


The Kharoshti script, also known as the Gandhari script, is an ancient abugida (a kind of alphabetic script) used by the Gandhara culture of historic northwest India to write the Gandhari and Sanskrit languages (the Gandhara kingdom was located along the present-day border between Afghanistan and Pakistan between the Indus River and the Khyber Pass). It was in use from the middle of the 3rd century BC until it died out in its homeland around the 3rd century AD. It was also in use along the Silk Road where there is some evidence it may have survived until the 7th century in the remote way stations of Khotan and Niya.

Scholars are not in agreement as to whether the Kharoshti script evolved gradually, or was the work of a mindful inventor. An analysis of the script forms shows a clear dependency on the Aramaic alphabet but with extensive modifications to support the sounds found in Indic languages. One model is that the Aramaic script arrived with the Achaemenid conquest of the region in 500 BC and evolved over the next 200+ years to reach its final form by the 3rd century BC. However, no intermediate forms have yet been found to confirm this evolutionary model, and rock and coins inscriptions from the 3rd century BC onward show a unified and mature form.

Source: http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Kharoh/id/510629

Abramelin,
I looked already at that script, some "letters" look similar if inverted, however, not all letters are found! I agre they are similar, they just give you the "feel" thatg they are written the same way, however they do not match.
interesting input anyway.
regards

Hi, I have to toss this around a bit when I have time .... I feel as though I'm on a scavenger hunt

Just my two cents, not sure if it means anything, but to me it looks similar in many ways to astrological/alchemical symbology. In the symbols written on the paper, what struck me first is that in the group in the lower right, the symbol for Capricorn is prominent, with partials for Cancer and Pisces, and on the end in the top row is Libra. I tried looking up the origins of those symbols and couldn't get much more than that they were standardized around the middle ages, so..maybe if nothing else a clue for someone who knows more about it than me.

I believe they are related to death. The bat is a symbol of death. What is puzzling about them is that in one photo we can see one side of the bat shape, then the other, then assembled with the four human shapes in their positions. That makes me doubt these were actually excavated but found in some collection. Also I kind of doubt they are from America now because of the incense holders on either end.

Parabellum, I am not just being stubborn here: I actually compared many Phoenician related scripts with the symbols you posted, particularly with those you copied to a piece of paper (see first post in this thread). What I noticed in many of those symbols is that they had somewhat horizontal or slightly tilted horizontal strokes added to them, and that's exactly what's in use with the Kharoshti script to indicate different vowels folowing the consonant. There's even a symbol that has a little -z- added through the bottom of a vertical, just like in Kharoshti to indicate a certain -r- following the consonant'
Please take a look again at this link: http://www.ancientscripts.com/kharosthi.html

Then we have to take into account a couple of other things:
#1 we may have here a form of Kharoshti that's a precursor of the standardized Kharoshti, so some symbols/letters may have still been used that were lost later.
Some of the letters look inverted (upside down, or left/right) when compared to Kharoshti script, but that's what happened often in the early days of the devolpment of sripts.
#2 some symbols look like a combination of two letters
#3 letters were also used in divination and spells from early on, so some of what you copied from the beaker to the paper looks like a sentence, some of them are in a group without any order.
#4 the medium the symbols are written on could have distorted the standard style
#5 differences due to the one who wrote them, or his/her handwriting style.

I also looked to the symbols written on those moth/bat-like plates, and they even more convinced me that it is definatively a script used to write sentences in a language, and, again, it looked like some form of Kharoshti (or some Phoenician related) script.

Earlier I suggested to just look at the pictures in this pdf file : http://andrewglass.org/downloads/Glass_2000.pdf , but now I would suggest to read the accompanying text too.

Anyway, whatever the place of origin of the finds, it's age , and the identity of the script, I would like you to inform us about it as soon as you know.

There's also something else that needs to be taken into account. That this is bogus homemade junk.

That's where I'm leaning.

That's what I already said on the first page of this thread, but Parabellum assured me it was not bogus.

So, just assuming s/he is telling the truth, I will continue trying to find out where it comes from (and I was close...) and where the script originated from.

For me it's no more than an interesting puzzle, but I understand it's different for Parabellum....

Abramelin
Thank you for the input, now that was really usefull and makes sense. I actually was thinking as you do, and now with this input i'm more convinced. An archaeologist is studying this matter now and he'll inform me as soon as he reaches a conclusion, i'll surely let you know.
Thank you again

You're welcome, Parabellum.

In the meantime I will try to keep adding things I found or remember.

---

Something about the black, smiling figurine with the headgear you posted...

I knew I remembered it from somewhere, and after some time I knew I once saw a very similar picture in a book about the Phoenicians in the eastern Meditteranian.

I wanted to mention it as soon as I was able to post a picture of it, but I could not find any picture resembling what was in my mind.

Anyway, to me it looks like a figurine depicting "Tanit", an ancient Phoenician goddess ( probably related to "Anat" from Ugarit ). Normally it is depicted in a more stylized way: a triangle with a circle on it's top, with a horizontal bar separating the circle and the triangle. But the picture I once saw and still remember looked very much like that black figurine you posted, and it had been identified as depicting the goddess Tanit.