I still stand on my position regarding devolution. Centuries ago spiritual, occult and magical practices were a completely normal and fundamental part of society basically world wide. Then came some changes in large parts due to the christinsanity conquering the world and forcing a belief of lies upon people and killing those who did not believe and even exterminating huge cultures and civilizations.

This is still in effect today through the brainwashing facilities called school and educational system as well as the ideology put into society by the very same people, and those connected to these people and groups that seemingly don't want people to practice these "occult" things and rather believe in blind faith alone instead of experience of truth. The short reason for this is that those guys want to keep this knowledge to themselves to exploit the rest of us and keep us in the darkness, blinded by their illusions and mind control - its about power and control of the masses.

Luckily, there are still large parts of the world and its people that actually do believe and practice spiritual development and belief systems today. Actually I think there are more people that DO believe in the supernatural / occult / spiritual than those who don't. So that means the normal people do think this is the reality, while the lesser people believe in the "rational" ideas put upon them through various institutions and groups.

Look at India, look at China, look at the east, look at south and latin americas, look at the natives of the north americas, look at the native tribes and cultures of most parts of the world, look at the orient and arabic countries - they all have a great spiritual belief and practice and even the religions themselves such as Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, cultures practicing Shamanism, Witchcraft, Magic, and so on is examples on their own on how many people believe / know that the spiritual is real.

And now, with this "new age" movement, and even more of these spiritual and occult practices becoming available and common in almost any book shop you can find, so popular that almost everyone know what things like "The Secret" is, past life regressions, astral projection, telekinesis, psychics, telepathy and so on, not to even mention all the secret orders such and mystery schools that alone have millions of members around the world in addition to the mentioned, is a good indication that indeed most people do have a interest and belief in these things, and the number of these people are just increasing, while the number of nonbelievers are decreasing.

So the skeptics I'd say are a minority already, and they're shrinking.

This is because people tend to know within that there is something more to themselves, that there is something to it all, and so many people have benefited from being part of these things and seen the improvements and experiences in their lives that it has given, thus its success and increasingly popularity, while the nonbelievers and skeptics are a dying race.

Does this mean that all these people, whom are the majority of people on the earth, are crazy? Delusional? Insane? Or is it the other part, the nonbelievers and skeptics who are that?

Of course this may be debated and discussed in the endless, but for me, and many, there is no doubt, as we have personal valid and proven experiences on its reality - life changing new perceptions of who and what we are

So the bottom line is, we had a period of darkness put upon us that removed us from the spiritual, but as always truth will come and people will see and act and fight against the deceit and wake up to reality. And we are now in that period. That is my opinion.

God bless and good luck to all in these wonderful times towards great discoveries and insights!

-EA

Have you ever thought that the decline in occult practices started when the general populace became more and more educated? We've always been a superstitious race, and back when we would dance and see that the dance was followed by rain, such a thing as a rain dance was invented. The same applied to virgin sacrifices, which was supposed to make the ground more fertile for farming. Are you to suggest that all these things were covered up by the Christian Church?

They are no different than pagan religions in that they are full of superstitions and rituals. Do you think the body and blood of Christ thing is different from any pagan ritual? What about baptism? Prayer? The church isn't part of some conspiracy, there's absolutely no evidence of that, it's merely a belief system with the doctrine that all other beliefs are wrong and that they must be replaced with the one true belief.

Back to my point about education, we don't have many occult and pagan practices in the west, except for kids trying to be cool in their own way. However, in the Caribbean where Christianity does still hold sway, they have a thing called Voodoo, which is a fusion of African and Christian beliefs. The more educated a society gets, the less religious it gets and the less occult and pagan rituals we see, just like in most of Europe and the west. However, education seems to do little with superstition. I know first hand what it's like, walking in the dark, knowing all the things that probably aren't there but I still feel afraid that they might be. It's why astrology still lingers in the west despite it being disproved centuries ago.

I take it then, what you are saying is people are starting to get less educated again considering the growth of spiritualism. And that the inquisitions were of none importance regarding the decline in the spiritual practices back in those days. And that is suddenly started to get back once spiritual practices other than the christian ones were "ok" again were just coincidence, or people suddenly getting less educated again.

Regarding your statement that we "don't have many occult and pagan practices in the west" I assume some millions people practicing such are not many to you. This includes everyone from those members of esoteric orders, mystery schools, new age groups, paranormal and psychic circles, those into metaphysics and so on, as well as all individuals studying and practicing these things on their own without being part of any sort of groups / orders / societies etc.

Then comes the millions rest that are part of various religions such as christians, catholics, muslims, jews, buddhists and so on. So these people are not educated enough because they are having spiritual beliefs?

Education had very little to do with the decline of the spiritual practices, force had a lot to do with it, a force that was mostly carried out by those following the bible. It was still practiced, but by fewer, and in secret, due to the obvious reasons of what would face them if what they practiced got known by the authorities back then.

And as said, these older practices are increasing fast and widespread again these days, even a blind man can see that. Poor education got nothing to do with that, it's got to do with people being free to practice what they want again and spread the knowledge about such practices without fearing to burn on a stake.

Absolutely not. When you replace a wide variety of spiritual practices with a single one, that doesn't mean a decline, especially since Christianity spread to places where they didn't have many spiritual practices, like ancient Rome. Baptisms, praying and singing hymns, no matter how it fits into your theory, are all spiritual practices.

Spirituality isn't tied to stupidity, that's not what I'm saying. But when you know that the brain is the source of consciousness, and that rain isn't affected by whether or not you dance, and that lightning is not a product of Zeus, and that the natural laws of the world determine how good the harvest is, people don't get involved in those sort of rituals. The same goes with fundamentalist Christianity, if they're aware of the science behind the world, and had a soft enough ego, they'd let go of their beliefs which clearly and greatly contradict reality.




The number of people who claim to be part of all those groups are far less than the non-religious and the Christians in the west, I'm quite sure of that. To Christians practicing occult rituals is wrong, and to rationalists and humanists it's pointless.




Losing ones religion is more about the ego, although knowledge might drive you in a certain direction.




Again, you're invoking a conspiracy that simply does not exist. The church acts like a meme, a virus of the mind, it convinces people that they have to spread their religion, by force if necessary, that's why it spread. It wasn't out to crack down on occult practices specifically, but the people who practiced them were not Christian and therefor had to be converted. The catholic church was already in place when it began it's crack down, and that was fueled by fear and ignorance.




Yes, Christianity has had a leash thrown over it, thanks to the secularists of the west. People are branching out with their religious beliefs now, but, that doesn't mean any of it's true. If ever there was a religion that was true simply due to numbers it's catholicism. And here in the west we practice lighter versions of these religions. Arthur C Clarke considered himself to be part Hindu. The Buddhists of the west are of the kind that loves peace and tranquility, but could never give up material possessions. I cant count the number of white stoner's I've known who refer to themselves as Rastafarian simply because they like cannabis and Bob Marley Even modern day Wicca is based on a modernized version that someone came up. I don't have any problem with people believing what they like, so long as they keep it to themselves of course, but don't try to tell me that this wave of occult and non-mainstream spirituality is proof of something. This is just a generation of people who replaced prayer and baptism with Ouija boards.

Some fine posts here Cradle of Fish. Nice work.

As for my thoughts? I have but one for now and can expand at a later date. I have to be into work early tomorrow so off to bed for me. I will leave you with this....

"...and Candle in the Wind by Sir Elton John, is the best selling song of all time. Popular, sure doesn't mean right."

Kevin A.

I would agree that we are coming into a re-awakening reguarding these pratices. However there is a strong desire to repress this process and we need to appreciate the reasons for this. I have a view that the logical mind serves us by protecting the conscious human from disturbing thoughts.

So I would suggest that the knowledge be spread with great care and understand for these considerations.

John

Woah, that's mildly offensive As a 'lesser person' in your brave new two-tier world, I'd point out firstly that, fortunately, reality is not a consensus issue.


Yes, lots of people believe in magic.


Any figures you could cite? I'm not disagreeing, since your comments thus far are of sociological, rather than ontological, import - although I'm not certain that the number of sceptics is shrinking, I'd be curious to know what you're basing that point on, is all.


You're asserting that this is the reason, without supplying any evidence. Who has benefited from these magical beliefs, in what way, and how do you know?


You discuss 'believers' as though they were a homogenous, united group. In actual fact, almost any particular group of subscribers to any specific religious or spiritual philosophy would waste no time in labelling subscribers to other religions crazy, delusional or insane. I personally don't see why it's impossible that the majority of people in the world hold a mistaken idea; we all do, I'm sure I hold several. Throughout human history, attempts to understand the workings of the world have resulted in good, but ill-informed, guesses which have led to mistaken beliefs. An argument from incredulity based on 'this many people can't be wrong' is a poor one.


As you say - to be endlessly discussed and debated.


So... before the darkness, what was the light? What (to steal a line) did the pagans ever do for us? I'm not aware of this Golden Age of spiritual contentment, wisdom, astral knowledge and brotherly love you seem to hint at existing before this Orwellian nightmare you now seem to think we're in. Have 'They' destroyed all evidence of it? That would be convenient.

Also, there's no such thing as devolution. An animal that evolved from a fish into a reptile then a mammal then evolved into a whale didn't devolve, it just evolved in a different direction.

Semantics aside, yes, I do believe that many of today's societies have lost touch with many of the magical or psychic abilities they once possessed. The psychic awakening, paradigm shift, and global consciousness that is on the horizon will move in a new direction, divergent and distinct from the lost traditions, and while reconstructionism cannot duplicate those lost traditions, their efforts as well as the more modern established religions will evolve and merge in this new global religion which will claim that all paths lead to the same source.

In the view of some Christians though this will be just the last attempt of Satan to control the globe and the messiah of this new global religion will claim to be the second coming of Christ, the Messiah, the Mahdi, the reincarnation of Krishna, the fifth Buddha, the return of Quetzalcoatl, etc. All things for all people. Yet after three and a half years he will be assassinated then resurrected when the peace he brings to the globe will end and the greatest times of trouble the world has ever seen will begin. In the end he will be defeated and judgment will occur.

The Bible itself is not without its own magic, though not the type where we gain personal power, but the type where personal experience with the Spirit allows for true and radical change within us so that the Spirit guides us.

I like your thoughts. The human experience is not well understood. There may well be 2 kinds of people. Those who have given their power away and those who desire to get it back.

John

You should get your facts straight before you post. It was the Catholic Church that killed all the people (including Christians) during the inquisition. There is a big difference there.

Excellent post Clovis. At last someone's said it right. It's exciting to know that all these are coming in the next 5 years. I wonder in what way exactly the present worldwide economic slowdown is leading up to these events. Probably there will be worldwide chaos and/or femine and we'll all welcome the antichrist to "save" us. We'll see shortly. Too bad so many people are still unprepared and will happily rely on someone else to sort their problems. Like babies that need looking after. So dependent on the constructs of modern "civilisation". So distant from what we are really supposed to be. And the worst thing: like it's said in The Matrix, they "are not ready to be unplugged, and many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it." Luckily, as we know, they will fail.
So what's next? The theories are many. The earth gets destroyed? It'll be shifted into the 4th dimension? Who will survive? Noone? Chosen ones? Spiritually prepared ones? God's serviants? What will we become? Spirits? Half spirits? Or carry on as flesh and blood humans? You can't say "whatever you believe in"... There is only one truth. And a damn good job is being done to hide it. Like instead of removing the red ribbon, they tie ribbons on all the logs. So many beliefs, possible truths, just to make it impossible to find the core. For most of us...