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Syntax
I have been trawling these boards for about a year and a half now, and while I do not often post I read most topics with great intensity.

I want to share with you a topic I wrote about last year in a different forum regarding the validity of witnesses - and not the evidence they present. Some of you may have already read this - But for those who have not I hope you find it interesting. Feel free to discuss your thoughts. I hope this gets a few peoples' minds working.

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Let me begin by saying this: You can measure a circle from any point and be sure of your destination, but how do you measure an infinite straight line?

We as conscious entities seem a little confused by the notion of the paranormal; we class the phenomenon as a circle that we can leap into at any point and be 100% positive of our conclusions, however I feel we have categorised the phenomenon incorrectly.

It is a straight line with no end.

This thread is the culmination of a year or so perusing these boards, more often in disbelief on behalf of the poster more so than the complexity of the phenomenon.

Our conclusions are somewhat shaky, a little embarrassing and quite often the result of our exposure to popular culture. I certainly am not pointing fingers at anyone, and often I too have been sucked in by the apparently strange world of the paranormal. To consider myself a skeptic would be wrong, I am more of an observer that gives credence to notion that the paranormal can not be defined by the set characteristics that we seem to lay down on these boards.

To begin my thread, I firmly believe that we are all looking in the wrong direction.

We post seemingly amazing tales of the unknown, more so for entertainment than to better expand our knowledge. I think for this reason alone we have become attuned to our focus on the characteristics of each story more so than all of the facts.

On our quest to solve the unsolvable, we look for similarities in the events more so than the similarities of the phenomenon.

For example, to ultimately prove the phenomenon real, we compare sightings of 'greys'. Our analysis of the story revolves around the ‘sighting’, what did the entity look like? How did it move? Let me guess…it held you down in bed and you felt like you couldn’t move?
What do we hope to gain from analysis of sightings that we don’t already know?

The real breakthrough is not in the sighting, but in the pattern of the sightings as a whole.

By focusing on one aspect of the phenomenon, we have ultimately ignored a large part of something that could eventually lead us to the truth.

I have posted this excerpt a few times on these forums, but it seems appropriate to do so again now:

QUOTE
In my travels I noted odd variations in the name game. Spectacular sightings and landings occurred at places called Misery Bay, Misery Point, Mount Misery and Misery Hollow. In each case I found the places had been so named because, logically, weird and miserable things had been happening in them for many years - Hauntings, Murders, Strange Noises, bizzare phantasms, disappearances of children and animals without explanation. Sightings in Point Pleasant West Virginia were followed up by sightings in Point Pleasant New Jersey. Sometimes UFO and monster appearances will occur in two widely scattered places with the same name at the same time. - John Keel 'The Eighth Tower'.


More so, scientifically the time of day, the month and day of the year, the location name and family history of the witness is of just as much importance (possibly more) as the sighting itself.

The more I delve into the subject material, the more intriguing and complex it becomes. It seems there are a number of variables that account for paranormal phenomenon, which include the validity of the witness, showing intelligence on behalf of the orchestration of the phenomenon. The ‘name game’ as outlined in a section above would suggest that the sightings have meaning that extends beyond the physical description of the events. One can liken it to hunting for a serial killer; to determine motive and drive one needs to examine not only the characteristics of the murder scene, but why the murder victim themselves were chosen. Behind the events lies a deeper mystery.

True quantitative study (as opposed to qualitative which we seem to focus on) has revealed these findings for several years, yet we seem to overlook them….more than likely because it does not fit into what we think the phenomenon should be.

It is the equivalent of examining the leg of an unknown insect under a microscope, and confidently stating what the rest of the insect must look like.

To put it another way, it is the equivalent of trying to adequately describe the New York skyline as a whole, and simply focussing on a single building.

It may very well be our quest to find meaning in lives that most skeptics dismiss as meaningless, godless pursuits. Our own sense of adventure and belief in something that can wonderfully prove the skeptics wrong is fueling the fire of popular culture. With every urban legend, tall tale and campfire monologue we do more damage to legitimate research than we realise, because we let imagination and wonder fill in the gaps that science is yet to prove.

The undeniable link between all of the paranormal realms are there, we just choose to ignore them because not everything sparks our interest. To those who prefer to trawl their evenings on the Ghost forums will dismiss tales of aliens and UFO landings, completely ignoring the similarities between the patterns in the two phenomenon.

This research is not new, in fact many of the world’s greatest ufologists began to refocus their studies as far back as the 1960’s. Even the ex-military UFO authority Donald Keyhoe began to change his tune after his research kept sending him spiralling into brick wall after brick wall. The world renowned Jacques Vallee even began to recant on the previous books he had written on the subject; never changing his stance on the validity of the phenomenon, more so on how we interpret the sightings.

The impact of this may not mean very much to a lot of you, but these people were the top guns of their field. It would be similar to Steven Hawking ‘finding god’ and falling prey to creationism.

Despite how enlightened we think we are, we seemingly know very little about the phenomenon.


PRECONCEPTIONS

I want to leave you a few documented case files (these are not newly researched cases, and are available for scrutiny via a number of sources) that outline very mundane paranormal sightings. These have been lifted from the original source books, and from the primary source if possible:


QUOTE
In the middle of the night I was awakened by a blinding light. I looked up and saw to the left of my bed a shining disc with a light in it that looked like a steady flame of a nightlamp. I saw no figure and heard no sound. I had a feeling that a cousin of mine, who lived in Langdon and was very ill, was in the room with me – A blacksmith from Tarbes, France


QUOTE
On Tuesday, September 23, 1823, a young man named Joseph Smith awoke in his bedroom in Palmyra, New York, to find a strange luminous being standing over his bed. This being, he said, was dressed in a white robe and had a brilliantly glowing face – Joseph Smith would go on to found the Mormon religion.


QUOTE
One night I awoke about 3:00 A.M., terrified. I sensed two beings in my bedroom at the foot of the bed. I did not try to look at them because I was afraid of what I would see. I saw the glow of the clock and Jeff, (my husband) sleeping next to me. I tried to turn (I was on my stomach) to wake him up but I was paralyzed. I then tried to scream but no sound would come out. As I tried to assess my situation I felt that the creatures were discussing what they were going to do to me. I then noticed that the room stunk terribly and was thick with EVIL. I then thought that they must be evil spirits, so I told them with my mind (since I could not speak) "You have no right to be here, because I am a child of Jesus." – Remarkably this was categorised in a UFO casebook.


I come across the same components of each case in all aspects of paranormal phenomenon. In this day and age we look at the circumstances of the event, and label it is sleep paralysis; however the most important part of the phenomenon is not the evidence that can explain the phenomenon away as something terrestrial, but more importantly the frame of reference that the witness used to classify their encounter in the first place.

Above you were presented with three different encounters, all of which had the same elements as each other and yet were classified in different ways. It is the witness who draws the line in the sand between aliens, angels and ghosts, not the phenomenon itself.

Patrick Harpur wrote:

QUOTE
It is often said that visions and apparitions are experienced according to the culture in which they appear. To draw a religious parallel, it is a truism to say no Buddhist has ever had a vision of Christ, and no Christian ever had a vision of Buddha.



Here you can plainly see, the phenomenon itself tells us very little….it is the witness who invents tales of ghosts, goblins and ghouls.

To put it more profoundly; a whole is only as good as the sum of its parts. If we were to construct the reasoning behind common ghost and UFO stories, we would only be able to do so using the facts that were on hand to the witness at the time. Anything else is preconception about the phenomenon on behalf of the witness and the listener.

From the evidence provided in a lot of UFO case files, there is nothing that points to an Extra-terrestrial origin; a bright light in the sky, terrestrial looking ‘human’ occupants and metallic discs are not distinctive character traits for extra-terrestrials. Let’s face it, there is no defined distinctive character trait for a truly authentic extra-terrestrial entity; primarily because their existence has yet to be authenticated. Again, it is our frame of reference and preconception of our beliefs that we use to subconsciously classify the event.

Remarkably, the last encounter was put into a UFO casebook. Here you can see the effects of ‘preconception’ in action, with the researcher using what he believed were the defined characteristics of an authentic alien abduction to classify it that way, despite the testimony of the witness.

I want to draw on a high profile case right now, something that was witnessed by thousands and puts the ‘preconception’ model to the test in the most magnificent way.

The initial sightings of the miracle at Fatima in 1917 differ greatly to how it has been recorded in history.

QUOTE
Suddenly the crowd screamed, and all of the people fell to their knees. Something was coming through the clouds: a huge silver disc which rotated rapidly as it descended towards the mob. Fragile strands of silvery ‘angel hair’ showered from the sky, melting away before any of it could be collected.



Miles from Fatima, others were watching the same object. A well known poet named Affonso Lopes Vieira claimed that he saw it from his home at San Pedro de Moel, forty kilometers from Fatima. Eighteen KM away in Alburita, Dona Delfina Pereira Lopes, a teacher, and all of her students reportedly witnessed the spectacle. Father inacio Lourenco described it as looking “Like a globe of snow revolving on itself”.



Fatima was a modern event, yet it is already clouded with the distortions of belief. The photographs of the object have disappeared. The key prophecy has been suppressed. Lucia shut herself away from the world. As the years passed, the object was turned into a dancing sun, the angel hair became rose petals, and the entire phenomenon was removed from the field of science and entrusted to the religionists.

Operation Trojan Horse – Pg. 260


The conclusion I wish for the reader to take from this is thus; we need to be careful on how we treat the phenomenon. I have seen an alarming rise in threads where individuals offer their ideas and thoughts to other forum members about their problems. Please keep in mind that those thoughts and ideas are based solely on our own preconceptions and frame of reference.

To blindly follow those frames of reference is akin to religious zealousy.

No one is attacking your beliefs, just be aware that those preconceptions themselves were molded by someone else’s frame of reference. We need to keep an open mind to what others are saying to us, and observe the phenomenon for what it is, and not for what we believe it should be.

Keeping an open mind is not a phrase that the paranormal field invented to stress openly to skeptics, it needs to work the other way too.

We all, regardless of what we believe, need to be open to the fact that our own frame of reference can not be stretched over the whole of the phenomenon.

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Discuss if you like.
Syntax
I'm consider changing the name of this thread to - Snip -

then, and only then it seems you get quality discussion.

Doesn't anyone have anything to say about the topic?

The topic of course being that the phenomena may shape itself AROUND the mind state of the witness.
Saru
Bumping your thread with a derrogatory comment about other members because nobody has replied is not going to help encourge a response.

I think this might be in the wrong section, i'll move it to a board where it may be better received.
Syntax
well it was regarding UFO witnesses...

but ok
lars123456789
Well, it confuses me what you want to say with this?
Mademoiselle
I'm sorry .. way too long . I'll come back if i have time .
Showgirl
QUOTE (Syntax @ Apr 15 2008, 10:45 PM) *
well it was regarding UFO witnesses...

but ok


hi hun. sorry, but i dont know jack about UFO's. but have what might be a useful comment for u. its not mine, just something was mentioned by a guy i know ages ago. u may have heard it.

in ancient times, anything wierd in the sky was described as being from a god/gods.
in the middle ages, it was witches .
in WW2 it was german secret weapons.
in the 50's they were flying saucers from venus or Saturn.
and once it was shown there's no life there, the flying saucers were then said to be from another star.
since CETI has shown there has not yet been any proof for nearby alien civilization, the aliens now are said to come from 'other dimensions'....

witnesses do seem determined to not find an answer....

Min xx
Rosewin
You make valid points about how interconnected much of the phenomena is with varying paranormal topics seemingly containing the same elements. While culture definitely plays a part in this I do believe it is also in the presentation. Who is presenting this to the witness and what objective they wish to achieve? This would of course mean that I accept there is much more going on than simply witnesses imagining their experiences.

The general public who is inquisitive enough to be drawn to these discussions though are not to blame for not connecting all the dots because even if they all seem related the presentation varies. Also it is much more interesting to discuss the particulars rather than steering it into an exercise in comparison. That is not to say there is no validity in connecting the dots, because there is.

I do not think the witnesses though are simply determined not to find an answer but rather if someone is enjoying reading a genre novel, and then wish to discuss it, the last thing on their mind would be to discuss how that genre is related to other genres. Some things do not lend themselves easy to general conversation when they are better left to the classroom and the realm of academia.
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