Just think about it for a minute. think of aliens inventing the idea like a project and bumbling up all these ideas, using ufos to keep in contact and make sure everything is working properly

the abductions could lead to natural enviormental issues such as, there is no change in evoluton to the human is there? the human has the same functions? humans arent mutated are they? etc.

but i am a christian, and god did create the world.. but even though he did, what created him.
think of it this way...
what created god? what created that? what created that? what created that? what created that?
how did it all start?

LIFE had to start somewhere - creation is everything

what are your thoughts???

Considering that we plan to spread life across other worlds as soon as we can really get off this planet and move around some, I think it is a distinct and logical possibility.

What if God is infact the alien who invented/created us?

Your theory is similar to one of my own, though I was thinking more of a distant planet of Humans curious about their evolution but had the technology to create Human life on another planet (Earth) and see how we did.

It's like saying "yes, I understand the Big Bang...but what caused all those gases to be there in the first place?" Did God cause it, or did the big bang create God?

I don't think we have the intellectual capacity to comprehend that at the moment.

I always thought since the world is so stupid, and childish that what if some teenage alien is just playing a big game on his computer. Weird stuff like that. I personally disagree with this since we have obvious proof of evolution and that we didn't just get zapped down.

We evolved. It's possible that the primitive life which appeared on Earth three billion years ago came from aliens, but other than that...

If you think long and hard about such things, you eventually come up with all sorts of theories and conclusions. The simplest is usually the right one: A bunch of amino acids got frisky in the goo one day and then hey presto!

All you need to know about this issue can be found in the book 'Intelligent Design' which you can download for FREE at www.rael.org

But everything you've said here is pretty much explained in that book! (It's a great read!)

-Josh

That's the SIMPLEST answer you can come up with? Damn, that's the most complex for me! How did they become amino acids? How did they get into the goo? How did they combine to 'hey presto' into a complex, advanced system of living tissues each with a specific design and function?

To me, the simplest idea is that there is a design behind all of life. So, who are the designers? People from other planets, no less!

-Josh

There was a Star Trek episode a bit like that.




That's not simpler. Evolution is simple, now that we grasp it. Explaining a designer that we have no evidence for is incredibly difficult.

Not created from scratch, per se, but if Aliens exist, then I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that there had been some re-engineering of DNA at some point in the most promising looking creature, in order to accelerate it's evolution.

Take a chemistry class. Amino acids and lipid chains form naturally with no "designer" in the simplest of scenarios. Microbes are not "complex, advanced systems of living tissue" and organisms don't have specific design and function. If they did they'd be quite perfect. Instead the actuallity is a mess. A mess of genetics and useless traits that served the organsim at some point in it's evolution but no longer do and in some cases can be extremely detrimental to that creature given the right circumstances.

Click to view attachment

Amino acids are simply carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, and oxygen - all of which are occuring naturally now and when the Earth was forming life.

No, your idea is more complicated, because you still need to explain where those designers came from.

Let's compare, our idea requires life somehow arising, your idea requires life somehow arising and evolving complexity and intelligence, and then creating other life.

Fine, but who created the aliens who created us? Oh, I see, other aliens. But who created them? Or does this just go on for ever, like the Earth resting atop an endless stack of turtles?

In any case, who created the first aliens? And if that entity could create aliens why couldn't it just as well have created us?

Well I think that aliens just change our genes in order to make a human for later reasorces of that same genes just in case their genes die or mutaded because in order to evulution to happen something must be add or taken out of the genes but, the only way that is going happen is mutation or some source of alteration of the genes and we know that almost all mutations don't help much with surviable. But mutation only uses what already has in the genes there fore there is no way something to change in a total different thing. For esample Humans evuolution said that we come from the family of the primates but in order for a primate to become a human the genes had to be alter not trough mutation but meaning that aliens use some of their genes and ADD to our genes to create a human for who knows. conclusion if this is true then humans are the aliens. p.s. I know i am not good at spelling.

I think we thought ourselves into existence and other entities helped us out - all under the watchful eye of a higher and loving intelligence.

Explaining designers that we have no evidence for? I know this isn't evidence to you, but the ancient religious texts carry some weight with me. The fact that people testify to eyewitness accounts of seeing these designers and that their creation stories are all very similar is evidence to me.

-Josh

It's interesting that you say this, because I'm come across many people who think the same. Can I ask, why is it easier for people to swallow that aliens altered our DNA? Why is it so hard to imagine that they designed us from scratch?

-Josh

Amino acids and lipid chains form naturally with no designer? Perhaps, but do they form naturally into a cat? Or do they form naturally into a human with ideas, thoughts and feelings? Could you please explain to me how these chemicals mix into a human being?

-Josh

Good points. My idea may seem complicated, but it fills in the gaps (in my opinion).

These designers were the result of a creation by advanced people. Those designers were a creation by advanced people. This has gone on for infinity and this is the way the all life in the universe has arrived. These creations, being able to become intelligent enough to create life on other planets, were designed with the ability to reach this stage....they didn't evolve their complexity or their intelligence. It was always there from their creation.

-Josh

Yep. If you can handle the idea of the universe as being infinite (check out Cambridge University mathematical physicist Neil Turok's work) then you can handle that there was no beginning and there will be no end to the universe....even Buddhism has known this for thousands of years. According to Turok, neither time nor the universe has a beginning or end in what he terms ‘an infinitely repeated cycle of universal expansion and contraction.’ You can read a summary of his theory in an article published on wired.com.

Doesn't it make sense that life comes from life comes from life comes from life.....for infinity?

-Josh

Taking that into account I have to wonder where did the earth get these from ie: amino acids and lipids? I agree that we started out as a primordial ewwwwzzzz and life sprouted from there. However I bet the very first living microbe was probably delivered here from space in the form of an asteroid or meteor. Life on planet earth IMO was brought here. Not so much from "aliens" but from much older life that may have existed a Looooonnnnggggg time ago. Example a planet destroyed by an astroid or stars going super nova, would be my guess on how life spread.

But, again, who created those aliens? Was that also accomplished from scratch? Who were the original aliens and who or what created them?

And how can we be certain that we aren't the original aliens?

There seems to be a general agreement that we are getting closer and closer and closer to creating Life in the lab.

When that happens won't it conclusively prove that Life can have a Beginning?

One thing about a truly infinite Universe that rarely gets addressed is that with an unlimited amount of time all the various combinations of atoms we have today MUST have occurred an infinite number of times in the past and will continue to do so infinitely into the future.

In short, I have posted exactly this same message an infinite number of times before and will continue to do so for infinity.

I have problems with that.

So do I, OldTimeRadio. It means my life is even more futile that I first thought, and that nothing I do will ever be original!




Ahh, now you're asking who created the Universe, I think. That's a product of your causal thinking, which is because you are a product of this causal Universe. But outside/ before/ after the Universe, there isn't necessarily cause and effect. And terms like 'outside' and 'before' are pretty meaningless, too.

That's the simplest?

How about life always existed in one form or another

Or how about it meaning life and reality just came into being

or this is all a dream,

those are simple amino acids got frisky in the goo, sounds funky don't get me wrong, but uh not to simple there bud.

the whynsos

What was the homo before cromagnom that became cromagnom (is that how you spell that sorry)?

That's the simplest?

How about life always existed in one form or another

Or how about it meaning life and reality just came into being

or this is all a dream,

those are simple amino acids got frisky in the goo, sounds funky don't get me wrong, but uh not to simple there bud.

the whynsos

What was the homo before cromagnom that became cromagnom (is that how you spell that sorry)?

But as I wrote just above we seem to be nearing a point when Man will create Life in the lab.

That Life will certainly have a definite beginning in time (April 2, 2039, say).

And anything that can be created has likely not existed forever.

How flawed is that statemenet that if we create life shows it likely didn't exist so what are we the creators inorganic?

I think about this all the time, actually. My friend and I were discussing how our existence and universe could be in a small water droplet in petri dish in a lab of some advanced civilization. What seems like 13.7 billion years since creation equates to like .5 seconds in their time.

What I actually wrote is that if we are able to create Life that Life will obviously have a discrete, documented, dated beginning in time and that anything that can be created may not have existed forever.

Years ago I used to daydream that the Universe was actually the sparkles and spangles inside the rattle of a super-gigantic baby tens of billions of light-years tall.

The baby's peacefully sleeping in its crib.

But soon it will wake up and shake the rattle! <g>

I do think that we evolved on our own, but that what started it all off possibly did come from outer space.

Think of it this way: the concept revolving around time did not exist until humans came into existence. God of course aided in this creation, but humans shaped the concept. It is figuratively/literally IMPOSSIBLE for us to imagine a world where time did not exist. Well, God, being God, exists not only inside of the environment he created, but outside of it as well. What I'm saying is that this dimension, governed by time (it seems) and space, is home to God, as well as other dimensions/ astral planes where things like gravity, time, space, mass, etc. might not exist.

Thinking of it like that, it makes sense. Though rather intangible for me to imagine an infinite lifespan, when thinking of it like above, it makes sense to me that God exists in and out of time, never beginning, never ending...
That's the best I can offer.

Define Alien.

If your spirit is something you cant see, is created by a spirit you can't see is an alien, Then I guess Father is an Alien.

But he loves us verry much.

Love Omnaka

But God wasn't born and He's not going to die. He didn't "start" someplace and He's not "progressing" towards some place else. He had no beginning and He has no end. In Judaeo-Christian theology he's "the Un-Created" or "the Un-Created Creator."

In short, God IS.

As God Himself expresses it, "I AM that I AM."

That could just as well be translated as "I EXIST that I EXIST."



I'm sorry, but that makes creation more important than the CREATOR.

I will answer point by point starting with the question in the title.

Could an advanced alien species have created us? Yes it is certainly not as far out there as being created by an invisible guy in the sky, I do however think it is highly unlikely.



If we were created by an alien species it is likely that physically we do not exist outside of a computer running a simulation of the universe. Here we run into a paradox however because if this were true then it is equally likely that the aliens or even human beings who created such a construct also merely exist within a construct created by an even more advanced species and so on...

Why go to all the trouble wasting resources to create life when you can make a perfect simulation and watch it evolve without us ever really knowing the truth? Provided of course this is the truth.



Human being have mutated (evolved) since we first showed up for example once we started to use tools to eat as well as cook our food etc our jaw line shrank and became less robust over time as a result of no longer needing the ability to say crack really hard nuts with our teeth etc. Evolution is natures way to adapt and we are not excluded from this.



Did god create the world and all life in the universe?

Up until modern science came along as we know it today there were no explanations or theories other then mystical energies and gods etc. The most logical is that there is no god or gods and that the universe created itself and will end eventually. This is not a random process and is endlessly repeated.



A question to which there is no answer eh? or is there?

How did it all start? We know for our universe it started about 13.5 billion years ago and violently and will likely end quietly. The real question here is what exists beyond our universe. The best theory I have heard is that there are other universes beyond our own.

Think of it like an endless ocean where bubbles are constantly being created and popped, a process which is truly infinite and has always occurred.

From the human perspective the universe seems to be orderly and consistent, for example 1 second that passes for me is one second that passes for everyone. The rules seem pretty consistent not only for me or you but everyone else as well. However at the subatomic level these rules break down and no longer exist revealing that what we perceive as consistent is really chaotic and unpredictable.

To imply that there is a god in turn also implies that there is order in the universe however the more we observe our understanding becomes by far more clear. This understanding of course is that there really is no order in the universe and that everything we perceive came from chaos and anarchy not consciousness.

Have you any suggestion of a mechanism for that one?

The Big Bang 13.5 billion years ago.

Think of it like a stick of dynamite exploding. The shock wave being time which drives everything to it's eventual end and the stars and galaxies like flame and sparks eventually extinguishing and cooling. Eventually the universe will spread so far apart then break up and cool just over billions of years instead of seconds.

I believe that there is a high likelihood that aliens do exist, however I do not find it plausible that they actually created us. With regards to God, and your statement "what created him" presupposes that there was something before God, which in turn presupposes time. You have to look at God as something that exists outside of what we call time; meaning that there was no 'before', time eminated from God. He is the first cause. While I strongly believe in God, I also believe in evolution. As such I just can't accept that aliens had anything to do with our creation. Nothing created God, he is the uncaused cause, and as a christian you should be wary of thinking that something else created God, as that's where heresies get started. For example, mormons believe that matter existed before God, and that He came from that matter.....matter being more powerful than Almighty God? I think not. If you have questions concerning creations I HIGHLY suggest reading St. Thomas Aquinas or Saint Augustine. In their works, they both do an excellent job of dispelling those ridiculous myths.

Iv always thought of this.

Now remember its your OPINION that god exists.

technically in religion the God figure IS an Alien, the creator just creates right ?

What came first ? Chicken or the Egg sort of deal here.

Who created this and them them. Its all going really deep i mean we cant even comprehend the FIRST step in this can we ?? creator/aliens ect ect

Okay. It was the "created itself" that I had a problem with.

I believe your view (which is a perfectly valid one) used to be known as the "Oscillating Universe" theory. The Universe expands to its furthest potential, then entirely collapse in upon itself, back to the center, compacting more and more tightly, until it eventually "Big Bags" again.

Then again what if we are their mutated and damaged, or their mentally disabled. simply shipped off so as to no inter-breed with the healthy ones



I saw that idea play out on Stargate atlantis. good episode


this is a question that goes with every "how did we get here" theory that is out there. i think that the answer just is not available to us at this time. and I don't think I really want to know. The haunting question of how we got here and how we were created pushes us to learn and better ourselves. which is great. I only wish that we could have taken better care of our planet in doing so.

Yes, we certainly are getting close to created synthetic life. There's going to be a conference held in London soon in order to organise how scientist will go about achieving that aim.

When we do created the first synthetic lifeform (and it will most likely be very basic, but nevertheless, still synthetic) it will prove that life can have a beginning. That form of life will have had a beginning. Just like us, we had a beginning when we were created. Those creators had a beginning when they were created....the chain of life continues.

-Josh

Yes, what you've said has summed up the 'religious' part of the Raelian religon. This is the religion of our creators too - the religion of the Infinite. It is to feel liked with the universe around us.

The atoms that make us up are incredibly old and are also infinite, seeing as energy is transformed and never destroyed. All of the atoms in the universe have always been here and will continue to make up various combinations of life. The soup I ate at lunch contained atoms that, millions upon millions of years ago, most likely formed a part of another life form's leg. Now it is a part of me. When I cough, or when I die, or whatever action it takes to have these atoms expelled from my combination, it will go on to form a part of something else.

We are all the universe and we are all made out of the universe.

A truly beautiful feeling to be linked to the infinite. We raelians meditate everyday on this thought through various mind exercises in order to awaken ourselves to the infinite, as our ET creators the Elohim do also.

-Josh

AH! Now what you are talking about is exactly the other part of the 'religious' part of being a Raelian (see my early post before this which explains how we feel linked to the universe). The Elohim (our ET creators) have said that they have proven that inside every atom are thousands of galaxies and inside those galaxies are planets and on those planets is life and inside the atoms of that life are galaxies and inside those galaxies are planets.....you can go forever into the infinitely small.

Also, our planet is a part of a galaxy that makes up thousands of galaxies inside a giant atom that is a part of a molecule, which is a part of a cell of a living being. The Elohim have only been able to prove that it's something alive, they don't know what it is.

But, time is inversely proportional to mass. Like you said, a billion gazillion years for us means a second for the being in which we are a part of. At the same time, a second for us is a billion gazillion years for the living being who live inside of our atoms.

BUT - because time is inversely proportional to mass, there can be no communication betweem the two levels.

We Raelians like to feel liked to the being that we are a part of and also the beings that live inside of us by meditating and doing mind exercises on this point.

-Josh

You may be right! We are certainly living inside of our universe which is a part of an atom that makes up a living thing. Who knows, perhaps we do live inside of a baby?

-Josh

LMAO

But isn't that just an endless chain of turtles stacked on turtles? Did the first creator simply come into existence by magic? And in that case who played the Magician?