I mean how can anybody on his sane mind think that in a supposedly infinite universe the only place that can hold intelligent life is our small planet?. We haven´t even reached our neighboring solar systems and imagine how many solar systems like ours or bigger there must be in the universe!!!.

How can the scientific community be so closed about the possibility of life in outter space, can somebody enlighten me on what are the mathematical probabilities that in an infinite universe life could have only sprung in one, only one planet?. I understand that science works with reliable proof and that right now we have no proof that there´s any extraterrestrial life ( except theories and supposed ufo sightings etc etc, which constitute no proof whatsoever), but what about odds and probabilities?. Are there any scientific studies that has been carried out about the probabilities of life appearing somewhere else in our universe?, and most importantly is there any study that proved it is completely and unrefutably impossible that there is in fact life out there?

Because if the answer is negative then why in hell mainstream science just goes on denying it, what are they basing that theory on? like huh, a factual study that I can read perhaps?.

Just curious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

SETI which is the acronym for SEARCH FOR EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE is endorsed by the scientific community. The Mars Rovers Spirit & Opportunity both had apparatus on board specifically designed to confirm whether life does or ever did exist on Mars. There are numerous projects setup around the world looking for Extra-Solar planets. I think the scientific community are on the whole anything but closed to the possibility of alien life.

I don't believe the universe is infinate though it is extraordinarily vast. If we are talking probabilities I would argue that the chances of alien life somewhere in the universe is one. However just because you roll a dice six times and dont get a 6 doesnt mean the next roll will be a 6. Probability is not a reliable indication.

Well, with all due respect to Dr. Hawking (he's certainly a genius), I really don't see how anyone can arrive at any conclusion regarding the prevalence of life in the universe. After all, we've yet to explore even our own solar system for goodness sakes! So, Dr. Drake says there are likely many intelligent aliens; Dr. Hawking says there are likely few intelligent aliens.

Hmm...do I detect mostly personal opinion here?

Fermi Paradox

Well, not everyone agrees that the Fermi Paradox is actually valid...see link here.

It's certainly an interesting issue, but since we've yet to explore even a fraction of our own solar system...seems to me a bit premature to conclude much of anything.

For the sake of all the lonely people on earth who can't even get a date I certainly hope we're alone in the universe. Just imagine how much more depressed that would make them to know that not even ET will go out with them.

What I detect is a bit of the old earth is plane ignorance, I mean as other poster said, we barely know our own solar system, all of those calculations are based on our own small knowledge of subjective parameters.

I'm not bringing any breakthrough point of debate in here, but I believe that many people in their efforts to put ufo phenomena down become very stubborn with this idea that we are the only intelligent life form in the whole universe. And come on, what are the odds of that?. If we had visited and researched at least several other solar systems and hadn't found any life whatsoever then I would be willing to admit theories like these, that we are some kind of odd miracle. But in reality we don't even know what there is around the corner so to speak.

I believe that untill we travel to other solar systems we should not hurry as much as we do to say we are the only ones.

hahaha! :<

Radio and infrared astronomy have made great strides in the study of what seem to be finding the analogs of laboratory molecular compounds, within the Milky Way. I imagine there are over a hundred (just a guess) such discovered molecules.

The research has drawn various conclusions about the processes that create these compounds. The bottom line is that the soup of life may find conditions in many places in our Galaxy.

I think there could be all sorts of chemistry connected to stars, for example the subject of astrochemistry. Obviously, it's a very large Galaxy.

I am just not inclined to believe every story about aliens or spacetime travelers. Maybe we have something we can not explain, that does not repeat, and is a mystery. Maybe some lights are not easily explained. I imagine so. But aliens, ET? I have not seen one, so I can not say or just support the idea, without seeing something.

Fair enough, I think only after seeing something for yourself you should believe in it.

I think that with all of the Earth-like planets that have been detected recently, the figures you could feed into the Drake equation are rapidly changing. However, the Drake Equation also takes into account the duration of civilization- which is a very important factor. Based on our current data (i.e, Earth), civilizations don't tend to last that long compared to the lifetime of the planet. So the chances of finding a similar civilization, on a planet near us, are still remote. As Douglas Adams said, 'The Universe is vast. I mean, you think it's a long way to the chemists...' So the scientific community isn't so much closed to the idea of there being other life- they are actively seeking it, and get excited at the prospect of seeing a methane signature- just closed to the idea that we might be able to communicate and share knowledge with them.

You are pulling the "Frank Drake mathematical probabilities b.s." No one can come up with numbers. The only knowledge we have is that we exist. Presently there is no evidence for any other similar species. So why worry about it and make demands that can never be met? There is no such thing as a "scientific community" for many scientists work alone and do not mingle with other scientists. The only "community is when a group of scientists work together on a problem. So if you understand that science demands repeatedly-verifiable experiments then they have no say-so on the mathematical probabilities of an unknown. I don't have a problem understanding that as far as intelligent life we are it, all of it, nothing, nowhere else.

I don't think that you have the experience to read a scientific factual study unless you were versed in that particular science topic. What scientific topic are you versed in?

Great reply, I guess most people here were wrong and there is indeed someone who knows for a fact that we are the only intelligent life form out there.

I don't know what field of science you belong to but hurry up and write a thesis, asap; we all want to know the details.

Simple. Other then math or odds, you have nothing at all to use in the arguement to prove we are not alone. Even with mathamatics and probabilities there are serious problems. It is in fact verrry possible that we could be the only planet with life. You error in saying this universe is infinite, it is not infinite! It is only 3.5 billion years old. This really is not that old in the big picture.

Consider this, perhaps earth is the first planet to sustain life, this does not mean it will be the last, but could mean the only one so far. Don't get me wrong I want to believe we are not alone! I really do! But I see no credible evidence yet to indicate otherwise.

Of course I will admit that it certainly is possible that we are NOT alone! But I am afraid to say one way or the other is pure speculation, still one can say convincingly there is no credible reasons to believe otherwise.

So you see, we are faced with this, Extraordinary Claims Demand Extraordinary Proof! We have none yet. Just wishful thinking. That is why mainstream science is still skeptical. Its not that we dont want to believe, we do! There just as no strong evidence yet thats all.

Who ever said that the universe is infinite? We have a very very close estimate of it's age, and a rough guess at it's size. It's big, but not infinite. All we know is that life arose here and that if the right ingredients come together elsewhere it might arise there too. That's no guarantee on what form that life would take, it might not even have DNA, and the chances of an intelligent species arising on another planet is incredibly slim. Also, we have to consider stellar phenomenon such as Supernovae and GRBs which are cosmic disasters that could easily wipe out all life within a certain number of light years, and since we detect about one Gamma Ray Burst every week, it's possible that we are alone, or alone in the sense that we're so separated from other lifeforms that we'll never reach them.

If instead of sarcasm you were to post the proof that you must have to prove that there is other intelligent life perhaps your sarcasm wouldn't be necessary. And nobody is wrong, just misinformed and holding on to beliefs. Nobody on this or any forum in the world can prove the reality of any other intelligent life outside of us. *SNIP*

Neither are you OR your whole lot of proof to sustain your point. People like you are of no help to any purpose at all, you are certainly no productive scientist, and your rigid unfounded views don't collaborate to the thought stimulation process that should happen in a forum like this one.

*SNIP*, and neither is it proven that humanity is for that case.

Cheers

Ok, manu-c and SkepticalEd it's clear that you guys disagree here. However, you need to focus on the other person's argument and why you think your position is better supported. Do not engage in any personal remarks/attacks/sarcastic comments etc.

Personally, (this is my opinion) I think that the probability of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is fairly high. However, that said, this remains only a probability (we simply do not have any evidence and/or data at this point in time). Then, there's the distance factor; we're talking about mind numbing distances here folks, ET may simply be so far away as to render us *alone* for all intensive purposes (ie, the ability to contact them).

The bottom line here is that whether one thinks ET is rare, or prolific, no one knows for sure at this point in time. Sometimes "we don't know" is just the best we can do...frustrating, but reality is often very frustrating!

It's not mainstream science, it's the skewed budget seekers that proclaim this. You see, if it's operable, as in data lines can be thrown, to get more money. There you go, there "THEY" go...

It's like that. Mainstream science, declared by many pursuers is biased. Money gains, profit margins widen. Tell them what they want to hear, and if they like the cut of your jib; budget, infinite range...

This is an easy one. Some individuals who post/reply here are convinced that there is other intelligent life in the universe besides us but these individuals are not providing any evidence for their beliefs which is all it is. I require evidence when a claim is made. So far no one has any evidence and these individuals are being criticized by us and told to stop believing and concentrate on the fact that those "experts" such as Frank Drake, Seth Shostak, etc., are using fake science to proclaim the probability of intelligent life elsewhere. They can't provide evidence either but because of their professional positions, the individuals here accept their mathematical b.s.

If these convinced individuals were to pay more attention to my signature and act accordingly, there would be less of these questioning posts. And even if one of these alleged aliens were to interact with us in a manner that would leave no doubt the first questions to it/them would be: "Where do you originate from?" and "How do you get here from there?"

How's that, Lilly?

Skeptical Ed

The universe could be crawling with life. Do you really think the Government would tell us if they actually found life on Mars, Venus or some other planet? You assume there is not intelligent life out there because the government and science TELLS you there isnt. Who's to say they are being honest?

I like your sense of humor. I laughed for five minutes over that one.

Ask yourself this guys:

1. How many species on this planet Earth did it take to reach us?

2. How many billions of years did it take from a single-celled bacteria to a fern, for example?

3. How many planets are compatible for life that we have discovered?

4. How long would it take for a basic, vulnerable creature to evolve into a multi-organ, complex, rational killing machine?

I don't think there are many places out there than can support life, honestly. Much less have it inhabit life for the amount of time we did. Much less have it cultivate life to the extent where it's inhabitants rationalize like we do.



Maybe other aliens are destroying themselves just the same way we are. Or maybe there are none.

You make a claim there is no other intelligent life in the universe....wheres your proof?



Your proof.....

Yeah sorry I didn´t mean to get personal, but the other poster was not helping me at all on that.

If you read my previous post I was saying pretty much the same thing you said. I never came here implying I had any proof for ET life out there, I just said people who deny it so strongly have no basis to do so. There is a pattern for life in this planet we live and if we look at the same pattern at a macro level on the rest of the universe I believe that we have to conclude life has to have sprung at other parts of it, even if a "desert" is in between us and those forms of life.

For life to have appeared just on this planet would be like if on earth life would have appeared on just a small piece of land and the whole rest of the planet would have remained lifeless, sort of a miraculous event, which I just don´t believe is prone to happen not here not anywhere. JMHO ( not saying this is a fact )

Let's be realistic. We are the only life in the universe because, so far, no other life has appeared. You want to believe that there is other life, be my guest. But your beliefs do not emanate from proof at which point belief becomes reality. I live in a reality where we are all there is.

Reading your post caused me to have a thought that I had not really considered before.

If the universe is like a single planet, then all life across it would pretty much spring forth in unison.

There would be variations in evolution and development, but all sentient life would be fairly close together in a developmental time line. They would be close enough together to make them somewhat compatible just as high tech peoples on this planet were fairly compatible when they mixed with the most primitive ones because of the common development of language.

It could mean that any far in advance of us might not be too far out of our reach or we out of theirs.

Logically fallacious, just because other life hasn't appeared here on Earth for a visit doesn't mean they don't exist.



Agreed, there is no available definitive evidence that life exists anywhere beyond Earth. However, this premise does not negate the possibility of that scenario (ie, other intelligent life could very well be elsewhere in the universe). We simply don't know.



And, I live in a reality where we are all we know of at this point in time.

And that, dear Lil, is the heart of the matter!

We KNOW nothing more than ourselves.

That is correct, though you have to admit my beliefs are primarily based on already existing patterns, not on wild human imagination created by some particular psychological need. My stand point is based on speculation that what we see here on earth could and it's very possibly a reflection at a micro level of how the whole universe works.

If whatever event that happened to create life here on earth just happened once since the beggining of time and the vastness of space, we would be talking about a miracle of an inmeasurable proportion. Do you believe in miracles SkepticalED ?

I do agree however that any speculation about the particularities of life outside earth enters the realm of human imagination and can be only be taken as a diversion. I'm sure we can find a common stand on that one

How many species of organism died due to evolution before we did? All of us are all created on the sole theory of trial and error. Evolution. Intelligent life like us come in... one in how many trillions of a chance?

The problem is is that we're looking to find ourselves in the cosmos. Humankind is so homo-centric that we search for signals that only we are familiar with.

While it's true that all we have to base intelligence on is ourselves, we also neglect the fact that alien races may have developed that do not rely on technology as we do. Curiosity may lead to the betterment of knowledge, but it is not the end-all be-all of intelligence.

As we scan the skies with our radio telescopes, all we are hoping to find is a mirror reflecting our own image back at us.

Mainstream science does not believe we are alone in the universe.

The general consensus is that if we evolved than life evolved elsewhere as well. Scientists are now and have been for a while now working on ways to detect life on newly discovered worlds.

What mainstream science does not accept is that humans have had contact with them given the size of the universe, number of spacial bodies and distance between the bodies.

The probability of life existing or having existed elsewhere is 100%, only a charlatan would say otherwise. We are living proof that life evolved elsewhere.

All life in the universe will also share a common trait and that is survival instinct, no matter how advanced it may be. We understand in order to survive that we must spread across the universe to other worlds in case a catastrophic event were to destroy our planet and eventually will. Logically the only conclusion we can come to is that no matter how different all intelligent life will share certain things in common for example mathematics, social structure, language and survival instinct.

Naturally of course alien life will be radically different from us however certain traits will be shared in very much the same way we share traits with even the simplest life forms.

I suppose that posting this will open a firestorm of criticism amidst the skeptics, but with regards to not having any tangible proof of extraterrestrial existence, what about all the UFO sightings that are reported all over the world, since even primitive times? What about Roswell? Clearly, I think there is something going on here. Sure, probably an overwhelming percentage of this stuff either has a natural explanation, or is even complete bogus; but on the other hand I think there are more than a few cases that really merit serious attention. Whatever crashed in Roswell was no weather balloon.

And as for mainstream science not advocating the probability of life on other worlds, is that any surprise? Science is so dogmatic that it is almost a religion unto itself. They would never accept it unless they found absolute, 100% proof, which who knows, maybe they will, just hope its in my lifetime!

Perhap the lack of any evidence to the contrary might be mitigating factor.

Here we go again. You're asking Ed to prove a negative. As yet there is no proof to suggest there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, You on the otherhand are suggesting there must be, therefore the burden of proof is upon you to prove there is. UNDERSTAND.

I agree! Because we do not have the technology to perceive something does not mean it isnt there. People had no idea of bacteria until the invention of the microscope.

Now you said its BIG but no infinite

I assume Space was always there, because Space is nothing, space is empty ! big bang merely created whats Inside the Space right ? So what you mean is the basic, i guess perimeter isn't infinite its just big. But space itself is infinite because its nothing ?

anyone ?

The truth could very well be that Earth is the only place in the universe to inhabit intelligent life right now, but that would probably only be possible if the big bang happens in cycles and intelligent life is extremely rare. If the big bang is a one time thing? Then theres probably others out there. If we live in some kind of multiverse? Then we dont know much about the probability, but surly somewhere else in the multiverse there would be others.

And theres more possibilities for what the truth might hold. So your opinion is based on your belief. I'd say: There is, or there is not.

I do not admit that your "beliefs are primarily based on already existing patterns, not on wild human imagination created by some particular psychological need." That is EXACTLY what is happening with you and similar thinkers. First, beliefs are the result of mental conditioning. Beliefs have no reality of their own, they are created by persistency.

No, I do not believe in miracles, that stems from religion. I deal strictly with physical reality and nothing happens miraculously in this reality. If it happens and it seems to you to be a miracle then you're missing on the vastness of possibilities.

One never knows that future will bring. When one considers what we've gone through on this planet, first to the planet and then after our appearance from who knows where, one has to accept that it's not happening willy-nilly through the universe.

But I'm always willing to discuss anything I know something about or seems reasonable to me.

Anyone? Yeah, I'll jump in here with my usually controversial POV. Big Bang is strictly a theory. There isn't a single individual on planet Earth that knows anything factually about how creation (in a non-religious sense) began. What is a fact is that you cannot create something from nothing. So no one knows where everything that is came from. And, of course, it's silly to say that space is empty! Scientists can only GUESS as to the age of the visible universe, nothing is certain. Especially its size. These concepts stagger the imagination and scientists in their limited thinking have to accept their limited thinking to try to explain everything. I have no idea when in the future humans will be able to explain things with more certainty but, presently, we know very little and nothing should be accepted as a finality.

Very well said. When it comes to the subject of aliens, we must always keep in mind that the motives and actions of aliens will likely be very *alien* to us humans. Perhaps we've looked right at star systems inhabited by advanced ETs, and simply not realized it?

You should read the story they've got posted on the "Main Page" on this site. I had a hard time understanding all of the mathematical mumbo jumbo the author used, but, it's interesting and right up your alley as far as your current question goes.

Huh?

I agree! If I was in a situation where there were several billion {(1,000,000,000)x ?} pennies laid out in front of me so that I could see only half a dozen clearly and the rest would take some effort to look at, and one of them was 'heads' and the other five or so were 'tails', there is no way I could logically speculate that I wouldnt find at least one more heads in all the others. Especially if my assumption was that they were put there by some chance ‘explosion’.

I'm sorry to burst any bubbles, it really is not my intent, honest. I have a very open mind. But remember a open mind works in both directions! If we went by the sheer volume of evidence and lack of evidence we would come to these conclusions.

In the most liberal arguement...

This is certainly NOT a universe over populated with other life. Indeed over population of life in this universe is not going to be a problem.


In the moderate arguement...

We can safely assume that if there is any other life out there, it is very few and far apart, and may not even be advanced as us.


In the most conservative arguement...

It is looking more and more like we are the only planet in the Universe that has sustained intelegent life. The further we can search and probe, the further we look, we find nothing! Instead of getting hope, we are getting a different picture. How utterly rare what we have here on Earth really is!


My opinion...

I really, really hope and wish that we are not alone! And that there is even a more advanced species of life some where! But as a realist and one who keeps a open mind in BOTH directions! I can not say in honesty it looks like there is any more life. BUT if there is, it is extremely rare, and certainly very far apart. So far apart that for all realistic purposes we might as well say we are alone.

I hope I'm wrong! But thats what I think.


I do however believe that this is a very young universe! A mere babe if you will! And we really are in the beginning of this evolutionary process. I am more confident that given enough time, more life will evolve! 3 1/2 Billion years is nothing! Give us more time. In another 5 billion years we may be advanced enough to reach another planet just starting out like earth is here and now. I just think the Universe needs more time to evolve!

Regards!

Problem with this argument is that we simply haven't "looked at" much more than a 'drop in the cosmic bucket' if you will. When we finally send probes to other star systems (verses just radio waves) that will actually constitute "looking".




Pretty good opinion...in my opinion anyway!



We could very well be the epitome of life in the universe (ie, the most advanced), or one of a select few separated by vast (and I mean vast) distances. There's just no way to know if intelligent life has evolved elsewhere...there's simply far too much 'elsewhere'! Sure, time will help matters (evolutionarily speaking) but there's still the possibility others got 'out of the gate' even before we did....no one knows.