Okay, I'm sure we've all seen these topics before. but it was just something that I was wondering after me and my sister discussed god and cloning.

So I say cloning is good, it'll help us, instead of waiting for someone to die, clone a new, fully compatible organ, give it the patient who needs it, fixed. We don't need to clone humans like in sixth day, no. Just organs, brains if need be, though chances are it might not work but, we say we tried. I'm not saying clone to extend life beyond death, Clone to extend life, UNTIL death, or until they get ran over by a person waving around a bible going "Sin against god!", forgive me everyone if that offended you.

Now, my sister's argument can be summed up in only a few words. Going. Against. God. Perhaps, but if god didn't want us cloning, he'd cause a few discouraging mishaps, right? Maybe not, but still, he might do something about it. Now, I don't personally believe in anything, but I'll say I believe in Shiva just to get people to leave me alone. BUT! Now here comes the all mighty "Who's right?" But I don't say that, I say, am I wrong? Now she doesn't like the idea of cloning, only looking on the negative side, I look on the positive side and see lots of good that can be done with such things.

Now, some people will say science is satan's ryhmes with witch, but I don't see it that way, it's what the people want the scientists to do with science that IS bad, not the people doing it. Now, handling deadly diseases, bad, but also good so we can find a cure, my sister says that's bad for whatever i can't recall right now, but I'm sure she'd say it is. Because we have to infect someone or something with it so we can test the cure, sure we can test it probably without doing so, which I see as ten times safer. But would it work the same?

Now, god might probably see that as bad, which I also must agree, it is because if it doesn't work, it's like murder. But could be used also as a step in the right direction, see what went wrong for whatever horrible reason.

Now, again, i'm not saying we clone disney, GOD no! Though I'm sure people will say we can clone the greatest minds of our time, and a few will probably say Bush, and of course they may spark ye old flame war but let's try to avoid that. Now, for the simple question. Am I wrong? or has this all been a waste of time?

First of all Shiva is the best elemental able to be summoned in the Final Fantasy franchise. I know you were not referring to her. Also I remember in the GI Joe comics they cloned Serpentis using the the DNA of various historicals including Hitler and Ghenghis Khan.

As far as science, I do not think God minds us doing anything as long as we do it with the right attitude. As far as cloning, I see nothing wrong with cloning individual parts. When it comes to fertilizing though, as soon as conception is achieved, then to do anything to that is murder IMHO. I would say you win the debate against your sister unless she can prove where in the Bible it states her case. If it does not then she has none.

Oh, ho! It doesn't say anything about cloning in the bible if I'm right, only that just about everything is bad and evil and will make you go to heck and burn for all eternity in the firey pits of pain, anguish and misery with no chance of mercy in the span of infinity that you are stuck there unless you get on satan's good side which is impossible!

*ahem* Now, I'm sure there are also a few people out there, like-a my sister, who will come in here, whip out of the bible and somehow find a page or passage saying that cloning is against god. I do believe we have no real reason to say it's bad. I respect everyone's beliefs about it and how they view their choice, not mine to change. But let's try to look on the bright side of things instead of the negative which protesters and a lot of other people seem to shout about.

The world's best video game series, that should have spawned a religion by now, and the best American cartoon (all done by hired Japenese artists. Go Joe!)

I would be more in favor of starting a religion based on the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Well you could start a few religions. The Aes Sedai, followers of Shai'tan, Children of the Light, Wise Ones of the Aiel, the Windfinders of the Sea Folk, even the village Wisdoms, and the list could go on a bit longer...

If they DID make a religion for Final fantasy, can you just imagine if they came out with bibles too? It would probably be second to the actual bible. "And now, my children. I shall quote a passage from the Book of Sephiroth.". Hahaha! I hate to admit, but that would be hilarious.

Anyway. Let's be serious for a moment before we start going for the G.I Joe and FF jokes. What do you guys think about the whole, science vs. religion and cloning against god thing?

This issue has been discussed here before and the topic got quite a bit of attention. I don't think we should be playing God and many people replied.....
well what about medicines and other medical miricles that prolong or save lives? I say thats well and good but that is not creating life just prolonging or saving or healing life. When we start thinking we can be God by taking his place in creating life we are in boundaries we have no business in, in my opinion.
God made each and every one of us unique and special and if He meant to have two of each of us running around He would have done so.
Now I have heard the argument that God gives us the talent and the skills to do such but that does not mean we should us those talents and skills. We have people with the talent and sills to make and use nuclear weapons but that does not give us a good reason to use them just because we can.

Always a pleasure

Ah yes, BUT! This medicine can keep people from suffering things like cancer, flesh eating viruses, it can give people limbs again, legs, arms, a new lung or kidney or even restore eye sight again just as Jesus do so many years ago. Satan may be responsible for all that yes, as people would say, but we can make them whole again, we can undo the damages he causes, defy him and allow people a second chance and allow them to get to heaven just as god intended!

Although if it was all a test by god, then he doesn't seem very merciful does he? Making his beloved children suffer. Now, I'm not trying to argue, but even if we helped people in the ways i mentioned, they can continue to believe in god instead of suffer and curse him and all that he is. because last I heard, that's bad.

I'm not saying we play god or anything, because that would be way off the point I was trying to make. The point is, that we can use cloning to give people a second chance at life, because even if you were a criminal who did something really horrible and had, say...a...well i can't think of an example beside cancer, which is also very bad, BUT! But say he had a...broken or...ruptured...something bad. We can clone it, he lives and dies anyway because he was on death row because that's how god wanted it, he doesn't suffer, but he dies anyway. Happy ending for all.

Hoorah, the people wanting him to die are happy, the people who wanted to clone that part are happy, we harvest his organs, take what we can and the hospitals are also happy and the people who don't want cloned organs are happy. Praise [Insert great higher being here]! Thus the world keeps turning and no one has be mad. Now I can also argue with myself as there being many things wrong with this that I can see. But that would make me look crazy so I won't. I'll do it in secret.

Well, I'm against cloning, but not because it's "evil" in any deity's eyes. Cloning could be quite beneficial to humanity as a whole, but if our population continues to grow at it's current rate (which would be accelerated even MORE if we could prolong life and create more humans whenever we wished) then we will eventually overpopulate the planet and kill ourselves and every other life form on this planet. Our economics are ALREADY strained because of lack of food, and there are already many countries that are starving to death. How long until we run out of food entirely? Not long if our population continues to grow. I believe, according to the current model, that the human population will reach 10 billion individuals by 2050. We're already under so much strain at 6 billion, just think of how strained we would be at 10 billion. Deforestation would be widespread because more houses would need to be built, precious natural habitats and organisms would become extinct because of habitat encroachment, poverty and disease would become more widespread because of an increase in population and the demand for food, and the economic system that keeps certain countries in power (such as the US) would crumble. The only reason the US is so powerful and wealthy is because we step on other, less powerful countries in order to get what we want. We don't offer them help because we wouldn't gain anything out of it. Why would that change if the population got bigger? It wouldn't, plain and simple. Humans right now just don't care about others. We have far to much prejudice, discrimination, and stereotypes in this world. They prevent us from being united as a whole. Until we figure out how to work as a united force and get rid of the negative associations between our countries, we will continue to suffer and fall further into poverty, civil unrest, war, and famine.

Furthermore, if we start cloning humans, even organs, we will want these to be the best they can. Could this not develop into social darwinism? If we decide to make human genetics a standard that everyone is influenced by, then we will be slaves to our own genetic codes. You, and I will be considered at the bottom of the social scale because of our imperfect genetics. Gametes will be edited so that they are genetically "perfect" which would change the social structure of our entire world in drastic ways. The movie Gattaca perfectly describes this scenario. We would only have a successful chance at life if we were perfect, and if we weren't we would be discriminated against and a whole new type of social prejudice would be created. Sure, we could start small and develop organs for people who need them, but it's only a matter of time until we start to edit and change the human genotype. There are incredible ramifications if we decide to start cloning humans. Sure, there are benefits, but in the long run it will only harm our planet all far, far more than it will help it. Humanity is too short-sighted in it's goals. We don't understand that our actions have irreversible effects on our own population as well as the planet as a whole. Until we learn to recognize and understand the consequences of our actions, we're far from being able to clone humans from a morally correct standpoint. In this way fundamentalists have a point; we shouldn't try to perfect the human race, because in the end we, and everything else on our planet, will only end up suffering.

Nicely put Lady Otterwynnd. I believe what's wrong with cloning has nothing to do with religion. I also believe if we just clone organs we will end up cloning full humans. Once we have fully cloned humans they will be treated as slaves only for spare parts. Has anyone seen the movie the Island? It's about clones in the future who are used as spare parts and the rich people can pay to have a clone created. Should they need an arm they take it from the clone. Also cloning animals is wrong too it cheapens the animals lives. Cloning cheapens all life with the idea you can just clone. I also agree with what Lady Otterwynnd said. The human population is too huge and we don't need to prolong every life.

That makes me think..... Is that how God views us? As just dispensable, cheap lives to experiment with? Certainly humanity would "farm" clones, whether they'd be human or animal, so why wouldn't God do the same? He has many human qualities and emotions, so he must have a mentality similar to humans as well. How could he experience anger, jealousy, and fury but still love everyone as equals? He's even chosen a favorite people, the Israelites, which isn't being fair and loving. If he loves us all the same how could he pick favorites? It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe if God does exist we're just part of one big experiment and he's just trying to convince humanity that what he's doing is "correct" and "all part of the plan"? Just speculation of course....

Here is quite a discussion about Cloning.

Enjoy.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...p;#entry2090117

Love Omnaka

It's incredibly annoying getting the it's all part of the plan. I guess if god exists we can't know the way god thinks. I'd like to believe a god to be all loving. It doesn't make much sense to me either. I do know though that cloning is wrong and it has nothing to do with any deity. Here's the link to the movie description. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Island_(2005_film). If anyone wants to check it out.

Just assuming there was a god and we were created in his image as many religions claim...

If God created us to be like him in his image then we were also blessed with the power of creation. To put it simply if there was a god and he didn't want us to create life he would have made it impossible for us to do so and in turn not have made us to be like him.

i dont see a difference

cloning is simply put A-sexual reproduction.

and since men are modified clones anyway it wouldnt really be an advance.

if you want expendables just get slaves and breed em like cattle.


all life is expendable
this means you or I

something will always thrive from anothers death.

There is a very big difference NiK Xues, God made each and everyone of us and we all have a purpose in life some of us never really know what that purpose is but that is beside the point. We can not play God and expect good results if we cloned say another you what purpose would he have other than being spare parts for the original. You say all life is expendable well I disagree God does not make junk. We all are here for a reason life is precious.
When you say get slaves and breed them like cattle that is basically what cloning is in my opinion. Cloning is not a sexual reproduction. To create a life is a beautiful experience in which God brings a precious baby in to this world using the women He created.

Always a pleasure

God created women so...okay, there are a number of things wrong with that I could find. First of all, I believe women are more then just baby-makers made by god so we can harvest fresh organs and parts. I know that probably isn't what you meant, but still, seriously. Anyways. Like I said before, I am not saying we clone entire humans, organs, body parts and the like, fully compatible. Not a second me or a second you or a second anyone else. Now if you or I lost an arm or leg. Instead of saying we'll need fake limbs of plastic "New arm! *holds up an arm wrapped with a ribbon spurting blood*" stick it on and boom, new arm. God's all goodness in action. Minus the bloody mess. Now, god doesn't need to kill anyone else so we can harvest their precious organs. We can remake the organ, fixed and better, give it away for 5 dollars and all is well.

Now, if someone dies or mysteriously implodes, we don't need to run out of the walls with plastic bags going "MINE!" or "I call dibs!" We bury them in peace, or pieces like god wanted. Now yet again, forgive me if I offend but that seems like it makes more sense of what god would have wanted for us. because as it stands, spirits in the after life, ghosts and such are sometimes results of people digging around their insides. Thus, cannay go in peace. So through cloning of individual body parts or insides. We avoid the whole thing. God forgives, spirits rest in peace, someone lives a little longer, the world keeps going.

Also, we hit anyone trying to clone an entire person with a rolled up newspaper and take away their license to practice science of any kind. It all works out.