Good for you, and I applaud your positive attitude. Study is a wonderful pursuit, you not only show what is possible, you may well inspire others. Well done. I am glad your positive attitude got you out of the bed, you have no doubt opened a world that would be normally hidden to you, and you deserve all the fine benefits that will bring.
Different from the masses - I was thinking more that as you have been subject to so much medication, your body may have tolerances that others cannot endure?

The problem is what they are claiming about Kirlian photography has been shown to be a lie. It is just the electrical effect given off by moisture, hence it disappears in vacuum.

So flames are okay if they are used in "a public place?" But that's where flames are used!



Please explain why you feel that my belief that Manson is legally sane (or at least was in 1969), and therefore fully responsible for his wicked deeds, is "morally reprehensible." You have me deeply confused.

"Your defence of Charlie I find is tatamount to insult making you that initial agressor....The man is scum and deserves no defence in any way whatsoever."

I have maintained for the past 39 years that Manson is, to repeat myself, INCREDIBLY EVIL and that he fully deserved the death penalty which he was originally given. Somehow you are twisting that into a "defense" of Manson! How are you managing to do that? Why are you "insulted" that I regard the man as noissomely vile?

In fact your accusation that I am "defending" this monster is so utterly outrageous and so totally at variance with the facts that I am AGAIN calling it a flame. Moderator?

Since it is the prana that is manipulated and needed by a vampire that would be a starting point, but since everyone is in agreement that prana has yet to be proven there is little reason to go forward with the existence of vampires.

Consensus can be a good thing.

If you are so sure you can prove, why wouldn't you agree to pay my ticket if you can't? By the way I will be in Ft Meyer FL on July 4th. Bring it.

Eric

Wow haha FT Meyer, but you forget how big FL is like three states combined, plus I am doing multiple weddings, anniversary's, work, and going to a very special chiropractor this summer because I travel a lot to each experienced medical person I can get a hold of. Including last summer going out to UCLA in CA for a spect scan, and the top headache specialist in the US reviewing my papers. I do not have time to probably visit you this summer, you will have to come visit me, which will probably have to be at the end of summer.

Pysche101

I do have toxicity tolerances and stuff like that, that most people don't have including high doses of morphine and other narxotics being pumped into me, only thing that they find works is anthestisia because they had to get me on something when I stayed up for almost 6 days straight...but I haven't done that in a while so I am much better in that perspective.

Meeting the parents?

vampires are boring

Spending 5 days with inlaws.

I pity you Eric

I figured old people would be involved, it being Fort Meyers .
Did you know the Caloosahatchee river has the highest concentration of ****** for any river in world.

Strangely enough, I heard a different definition of "hole in one" chiropractic theory over 40 years ago. It wasn't defined by a chiropractor but instead by the literary professional who had edited, partially written and saw through to publication Thorp McClusky's best-selling paperback CHIROPRACTIC AND YOU.

Then it referred to the "hole" in the base of the skull via which the spinal cord connected to the brain.

Yes, FINALLY someone is getting the point hence everyday people, glad you are on board


OLDTIMERADIO

This is a new practice, and what that chiropractor told you seems to be a bit of the same thing...maybe just a watered down version of what you remember perhaps because it seems like it was all there...

Romania and anything in Carpathian mountain areas typically have mythological tidings to vampiric creatures, not just limited to the vampire but also creatures like the Iele.

[i]Iele's are a type of vampires, but are they true vampires. Aren't they more of a beast?

Ieles are a bipedal cat creature that stands in the middle of crossways to drain blood from there victims.

You are insistent in making this molehill a mountain aren't you?
You feel you are the only person who can categorise Charlie Mansons behaviour. Good for you Mr Riteous, have it any way you want, the man is scum, and EVERY single degoatory term in the English language applies as far as I am concerenced. Take your semantic flame elsewhere, your tirade is boring.
Once again, try Mum. I am done with your silly banter.
I will answer your one question you asked, although no doubt you will have a little cry and call it a flame, why do I feel that it is wrong to say Manson was sane?
The general populace is regarded as sane, I feel nothing Manson has ever done can be regarded as even similar to actions carried out by the general populace. I do not feel a "normal" person can do what he did. He cannot be compared to Mr Joe Average.

Where in God's sweet Earth did I say anything even remotely like that?



On my checkbook that's Mr. Righteous. <g>



You STILL fail to realize that we're in TOTAL AGREEMENT here.

However, I also suggest that we end this discussion (well, your presentations of the facts and my tirades) here and now since it has nothing to do with the original topic, which is vampires.

Believe me you're better off debating Manson

Your martyr act, on many threads that even mention vampire, is pathetic.

You're evidently upset folks here haven't bought your silly notions, and thus seek to whine at any opportunity. Quit your crying, man up, and just stop.

Exactly. At least he is real.

If it were only done to me I wouldn't bother, but I see it done to a lot of others by practically the same lynch mob, now that's pathetic. How many decent discussions have dissolved because of this attitude?

Silly notions, crying, man up? piss off!

People claiming to be vampires, werewolves and supermen are not real discussions. They are comic books.

vampires are boring

Come on enough bickering please, lets keep the thread civil and constructive.

Thank you.

When I called Manson insane. You said the term was strictly a courtroom definition. Not so. Sanity has a definite meaning (Soundness of judgment or reason), as such so does it's antonym.



I am so not suprised I think I will have a heart attack and die of not suprise. Would you have it any other way?



Not quite total agreement are we, or this hostility would not be prevalent now would it. I present facts as they stand and offer supporting links. The presentations are not my own, but those that are recognised by the wider community.
Agreed, perhaps we can have a civil debate on the actual topic. I have asked the wannabe's in here what they think of the actual attrocities commited by unstable people that join these sects with the stupid inference that they "belong". The best I can get is a quiet, yeah, I don't agree with that, what I seek is an opinion, a solution, a train of thought, not a crowd to agree how twisted the acts are. Ironically, those that agree then go back and support the very train of thought that was responsible for the said murder without any form of remorse? I offered a couple links to people that have killed on the name of this legend. What is your opinion on this? Do you think the legend should carry a 18+ rating, or something like that? Do you think that the legend should be "softened" onto a halloween type event so that the story element can finally bask in it's rightful glory? The authors of the legend finally recognised for their litterary genius, and the effect they had on the world. Could this method be used to promote goodness? Do you think there is an answer, or do you think that some people will always have to be sacrificed so this story may pass onto future generations? Is that fair?
Have you seen the links I speak of, or do you wish for me to post them again?

It's "so" according to judges, lawyers, psychiatrists and psychologists. "Not so" according to you.



What hostility? When you refrain from personal attacks it's a delight to discuss things with you.

I believe you are reffering to how he was charged. I feel that does not cover a description of the man, nor do I feel it was intended to be a finite definition, courtroom rules must be abided by, I see no problem with expanding on the defnition he was charged with, or conditions met to stand trial.
I would have written a piece of paper calling him sane as well if I thought it would get the nutjob to stand up to his actions and keep him off the streets for the rest of his natural life. It is possible there was an alternate agenda here.
I agree with the judges, lawyers, psychiatrists and psychologists, I just think they to would have more to say about the man outside a courtroom. I feel he may have been classified as sane enough to stand trial, he should indeed pay for his actions, but I do not believe that term applies wholly. I feel the mans brain is anything but what I understand as the definition of the word sane.



Personal attacks? Shame you see it that way, I agree, I am blunt and that can be interpreted that way. I would not know you if I fell over you on the street in 2 minutes time, I have no personal problem with you. I felt that was your stance the way you seemed to be heatedly objected to calling the man insane, I see your point, that it could absolve too much, but I feel that it absolves nothing. If anything I feel it identifies a known dangerous defect and on that basis he should be immediately terminated. At least we seem to be debating over what type of cretin the creep is, rather than offering him any support, and that is a good thing. And thank you for the compliment, I am sure once we have this different viewpoint behind us, we will get along famously. I appreciate all points of view, but as I say, my blunt manner is often interpreted as antagonistic, maybe it is, I just only see things in black and white generally. Sorry for the confusion.

I guess this wannabe can answer, unstable people are just that 'unstable' that they join cults and continue there demented mission has nothing to do with vampirism, everything to do with cults and the sort. The sooner you understand that real vampires are not in cults, not sacrificing virgins, not flying through the air as a bat, the sooner you will see there is a huge difference.


You're talking about the ghost story, myth, Hollywood image again? Do you think curtailing these 'bogeymen' folktales will prevent all these atrocities you are speaking of? There is way more cultural / media dementia for you to protest about than just the silly little Dracula image, no?

If you want to save the World from evil, I would start looking at our Religions and Governments, there you can find the ultimate in manipulation and deception not to mention death.

In one post you said my views were "morally reprehensible," in another that I was self-righteous, and you accused me of defending Charles Manson (when in actuality I think the man should have been executed more than three decades ago).

I regarded those as personal flames and believe that most people would so regard them had they been aimed in their direction.

But apology certainly accepted. And apologies to you for anything I've said that may have offended you.

P. S. I've also been accused of seeing the world in black-and-white.

PPS. "A man without opinions is a man without character."

sorry if yuve already said Vampira Pandora but i cant be arsed going through the whole conco. so u genually believe your a Vamp?

Thanks for that, I am positive the bickering is over, I feel we may be quite passionate about the same thing, just perhaps had slightly different perspectives. What you saw as flames was just my direct approach. I can see how you would take those comments as offensive rather than a staunch viewpoint. That behind us, and in total agreeance that we both find Manson a disgrace to the human race, I feel we shall have sme fruitful discussions. I had a similar experience with Frogfish when I joined, after some short conversations, I found myself quite a fan of anything he posted and firmly support his stance in all cases.

That is one fine quote, not sure who's it is, but I do agree with it.

Yet the Hollywood Vampire remains an inspiration to this crowd, and there are some that cannot handle the responsibiliy of play acting out a fantasy. This lot do actually do much harm, and outnumber the contingent you are discussing. By and large the Hollywood legend is prevalent, and can be a dangerous influence as proven by historical record.

What you are reffering to as Real Vampires concern me as well, as they are a personification of a myth, and tend to "evolve" the story to something they think others will believe. The belief alone concerns me, I would also be concerned to find a group of adults that insist they work for Santa too. Just how far are they prepared to go to keep the story alive? I shudder to think. Why this hidden existance? We don't cut things up anymore, we scan them, why not come forward? As I said in a previous post, financial benefits to the institution could be immense.
Or they could all end up in a nuthouse. All they would have to do to change that is show what differences they haved, or validate Prana. Validating Prana should get the Nobel Prize. Seriously, if the creatures you speak of did actually exist, hiding out would only lead to their extinction in the modern day world. The benefits to such a minority group would be immense. As you say, not creatures of the silver screen so why would the general reaction be the same as well?
I think Prana is a crock. No evidence substantiates this idea any more than manna. The "energies" theories are ageing hippy tales. Psychic Vampires exist, they are normal homo sapien teenagers. Nothing drains a person more. I see no reason to believe in such a thing other than a want to believe.



Yes, I am speaking of it again, it is the prevalent myth that causes injury and death to innocents. It corrupts young minds. Hollywood should consider this.
If the Vampire legend did not exist, yes, I can name one teen at least the would be alive today. Does her memory not deserve the respect to question the twisted thoughts that ended her life? Of course there is more to protest, but this is a Vampire thread, isn't it. There are venues that other discussions can be taken up in.



Read that and tell me that the ideal does no harm. Tell her parents that. The inspiration was Vampirism. Hollywood or not, this direct incident of the ideal caused this vile act and is a reason to erase the legend from the history books.

Religions and Governments? What, conspiracy theories now? Come one. The West divorced state and religion centuries ago, we don't have crusades anymore, hadn't you heard?
War, I can protest all I like, and I do when relevant, as I do about religions like Scientology Raelism and the like. I do my best to broaden public awareness on those issues as well. Why restrict myself to one contingent of nutters? Wipe them all I reckon. They are harmful, stupid and are full of lies. If you wish to debate Religions, you are in the wrong forum. I wont save the world, but if in my lifetime I make one person aware, it will all be worth it. Imagine if one could have saved this poor girls life with some simple words.........

Okay, first off . . . you're Avatar is the best one on Earth, I'll give you that

I'm with you on that. But I don't think we can do much about all of this now, there all kinds of 'monster' archetypes in the movies, but I understand the connections with cults and the sort, very bad stuff indeed. There is a big difference between joining a Pagan group with good intentions and joinging some neo-nazi occult organization (sorry, neos out there).


Not sure who 'they' are but, I will insist that I am aware of at least one Order that has proven to me physically that this stuff exists as I have experienced it first hand.


I'm sure these kind of benefits are not what they are looking for. The damage that would be done upon them as a whole would be terrible. Matter of fact just me babbling about this I am sure will get me in hot water.

Or so you have said

I don't know about that really, wouldn't it be 'the Devil/Satan' stuff that causes the most problems, at least is attributed to these problems.



Well, I'm not condoning the dementia that confused children can have with all of these Occult themes. But where do you start? Let's remember how stupid the whole playing 'Stairway to Heaven' song backwards was. More children were massacred in the name of religion than anything, let's put an end to that first.

What tiny corner of the Universe do you live? Church & State is as a corrupt unity as ever.

Of course. But education is the key here.

I ran into that just once, in a Texas church newsletter more than 40 years ago, and it immediately entered permanent memory.

The life of Elizabeth Bathory is a part of history.

So is Vlad Tepes.

Bram Stoker's 'Dracula' is a part of our literary heritage.

Are you saying we should erase knowledge of two real-life people from our history, and that we should burn all copies of a well-known book?

The vampire legend and mythology has many incarnations around the world. Trying to erase that would be a daunting task indeed.

There has always been people who are moral-less, reprehensible, with no conscience, who are determined to do evil, horrible things. Remove one outlet for their actions and thoughts, and they'll find many more. It highlights the phrase, "If it's not one thing, it's another."

I am not saying they should not be stopped from doing these things; and they definitely should be appropriately punished when they do. BUT, saying we should erase the legend itself from history books is silly. It's saying we should ignore parts of culture that are a part of our history.
Do you think we should erase references to slavery, Nazi-ism, or historical serial killers (i.e. Jack the Ripper), too? They have all been blights on our past, and horrible atrocities. But they are also facts of our world history that have a right to be told AS FACTS.

You're stepping into 'freedom of knowledge' here with your statement.

Very good point that you brought up, as you know though it can be annoying with any 'lunnies' out there that take it all tooo far and thus are placed in the history books on the top of the page, rather than all of the other facts in between that are left out. It seems as though humans naturally try to erase history, you'll find this with any history book you look in and you'll see right away some of the details they leave out in each one, depends on preference really...sad but true.

Why thanks. I am quite fond of my avatar as well It is how I see myself. Now how do I make that bull look more atangonistic ...LOL...



That there is, but Hollywood has to make "evil" "Cool". I do not know if lobbying Hollywood to take more responsibility is the answer, or perhaps simply highlighting such crimes and increasing the punishments for them. Thanks for the response though, a large mix of answers is the best way to start I think. As many viewpoints as possible. All in all, I think your closing sentance addresses this best. Education is indeed the key to this riddle I feel.



May I ask what it was you experienced. A draining, did you see the tendrils you have claimed? It would have to be pretty darn convincing for me, I would not just believe my eyes in this case.



Why? The world is becoming incresingly tolerant, in the West religion has lost steam and such a group would surely be as welcome to join society as Bigfoot would. Alternative measures could be sought if feeding on a vital human attribute was necessary for survival, and as I said, the financial benefits would be huge. The protection, and self preservation of the society would be greatly advanced by such a move.
What would be the harm in coming forward? What fear would such a faction hold? What damage could be done? Polluting a culture seems the only possibility?
Why would you be in trouble? People question the claims heavily, and if you can accomplish something similar to the above, it would of a huge advantage. Surely at least the option would be open for discussion?
The Goths sand Emo's would worship them. They would find safety there if all went wrong.



Yes, I have stated that is my opinion. As I have said before, I am a pretty black and white sort of fella. It woud take some empirical evidence to convince me of Prana's existance.



The entities you mention too have had the Hollywood extreme makeover. More issues with the same subject. If we could find an answer to one, it may work for other ideals?



And Queens "Another One Bites The Dust". Heard that played backwards in Church as an example personally. Got thrown out the room for laughing so hard.
What religion(s) do you refer to? Christianity stopped crusades centuries ago, the Muslim Faith seems to generally denounce the terrorist faction, Bhuddist is a very gentle teaching. I show up at anti-scientology or anti-rael meetings when local. Such scammers will always be around as long as we revolve around currency and men have sex-drives. Not sure what more people can do than try to make those aware of the dangers they embrace, or how they are funding a sham.
Religion has more positive attributes, it depends on the interpretation. I hope Christianity is a role model as to why it should be divorced from state. Sadly, fundies have taken the good book and tried to use it as a historical record, when it is quite plain the ideals contained are phillisophical. People just like to be right I guess, and want to lead the way, no matter how much deviation is needed from original principals. I always find it incredibly ironic that the West uses religion as a historical record, and the middle east uses historical record as religion. Times change, values change. What works 12 hundred years ago may not work today,it is principal that should be studied, not authenticity of events, for goodness sake the world was never flooded or freshwater organisms would not exist in the abundance they do today. I think religious fundies feel they need to get their message across, not the written one. The Catholic Church publically announcing that it teaches evolution as opposed to theism is a big step in the right direction I think. Hard to say those bones do not exist.



Qué? What do politics and Religion share in the way of law? Please extrapolate. Scientology blackmailed tax free status. The two seem to detest each other in all aspects. The Anti-Christian movement is very strong. Many people in politics do not believe religion in any way.

Heard a great Pollie joke last night. For all the Members of UM:-

Mr. Bush was at a primary school doing a little question time. He got in front of the class, and explained ecconomies, greenhouses gasses, and the concept of freedom. At the end of it President Bush offers some question time, little Johhny sticks his hand up and says

Mr. President. I got 2 questions for you.
1 - Where are all the weapons of mass destruction
and
2 - When are the troops leaving the middle east?

Just them, the recess bell rings. After Recess the class resumes, and question time is re-stared. This time little Timmy sticks his hand up and says

Mr. President, I got 4 questions for you.
1 - Where are all the weapons of mass destruction
2 - When are the troops leaving the middle east?
3 - Why did the recess bell go 40 minutes early today
and
4 - WHERE IS LITTLE JOHNNY!!!

I enjoyed it anyways LOL.



Agreed, any idea how to start? Schools, media, video games? Anyone in UM know what department would be best one to lobby for an ear? How do we get someone in charge to recognise the problem and attempt a solution? Many minds may offer the right solution here. The Government seems to not notice this, the Department of Child Services here in Oz has been inder the hammer a few times in the last 12 months, and rightly so. They do a pathetic job and the whole department should be thouroughly investigated.
Thanks for your thoughts on this. I am very interested in all angles of this aspect.

Actually, no I am not, it is an opinion, and I am asking others opinions. I'd like as broad an overview of opinion on this subject as possible.

Neither Elizabeth Bathory, nor Vlad Tepes the third used a Vampire as inspiration. Vlad Tepes was at war, Elizabeth Bathory was a serial killer. Vlad may have been the inspiration for Bram Stokers Dracula. Both died long before Bram Stoker was born.
So, if the lives of mass killers (Vlad's killing justified(?) by war - Bathony just a whacko) are the inspiration for the legend, you do not think an 18+ or a 15+ tag might be appropriate? Do you feel that every person has enough of a grasp of reality by this age to not go out and commit a similar attrocity wthout undertsanding the full implications of their actions? I feel mixing history with fantasy is both a crime to the authors of the original works, and the memories of those who perished by the hands of such monsters. A true recount of history is far less romantic than Bram Stokers Dracula, and a mature person is more likely to understand the value of a life, and how easily it can be taken, and identify story from history. A teen can see such as an inspiration and destroy a whole life with one curiosity. Matureness would have to be of assistance in this instance would it not?
Now, having mentioned history, we learn slavery and Nazi-ism is an attrocity, and in general, it is regarded as distasteful. As such, it is valuable as a tool to avoid repeating any such thing, or anyone trying to. The principals are vastly different, as is the light in which they are displayed, Should the Vampire be given the same treatment? I do not think it could be erased for the history books, just one suggstion to get people to put thinking caps on. Outlawing the culture would most probably drive it underground, which no doubt would make things worse.
Freedom of knowledge? Nah, perhaps an organised structure to present such knowledge? I dunno, what do you think we can do to take "coolness" out of killing? How do we make helping you neighbour seem "cool"? How do we stop another teenager dying like the one in the link? How do we get in these heads early enough to send out the right message? There will alwys be sick people I think, until genetic engineering can hep with such a thing, until then how do we identify such cases early, or stifle such personalities from emerging or even coming into existance? I cannot get over the story of that poor girl, not sure why but it quite struck a chord with me. I cannot believe what the two girls(?) did to her. How did they get like that? Sadly, they need to be removed altogether from society, I could not trust such a mind to redeem after commiting such an act. I guess this incident has fuelled my passion to say something, I dunno, do something. I am sad for the two killers as well, as to me, they died some time ago as young girls, consumed by the monsters that represent them today. Such a chilling episode from young women. For that poor dead girls sake, if I could go back in time and erase the Vampire legend, I would do it in a heartbeat, even for the chance it might save her life.
And thanks for your 2 cents, all views are appreciated. Good point, but I think you saw my view from a different viewpoint than I had intended. I hope this post is a little clearer.
Gracious, just read those posts back. Just call me Buffy.

It is prudent to check facts concerning history, by way of alternate accounts, and environmental impact as history is generally written by the victor.

Oh, I know. I've read a lot of information on both. My point was that both are tied into the Vampire mythology because of 1) The likelihood that Stoker used accounts of Vlad Tepes for his novel, and 2) Elizabeth Bathory killing and drinking the blood of young girls in a quest for ageless-ness (as close to 'vampirism', as we now think of it, as you can get).
Also, vampire mythology had been around awhile before either showed up on the scene, so while it probably wasn't the impetus behind either's actions, I'm sure they'd heard stories at some point.



Oh, yes, I fully agree. I think ANY accounts of serial/mass killers (like the scum that are allowed to write their 'life-stories' from behind bars and make money off of their atrocities ) should have 17+, or whatever, rating on them for the very reasons you stated. Unfortunately, you'd have to change Hollywood's minds on the matter, and I don't think they're willing to give up their 'cash-cow' just yet.



I think that is a great suggestion. I do remember in school how an emphasis was put on the fact that slavery and Nazi-ism was deplorable, and that we needed to make sure we did not repeat these horrors. I also remember reading about people in history (the Crusades, and such) that didn't have that emphasis, and thinking to myself, "But isn't this close to the same thing?? Shouldn't we be talking about these as horrors, too??" The US, unfortunately, has a horrible track record themselves of covering up their mis-deeds (i.e. the American Indians).



My 'freedom of knowledge' comment was in regards to your statement that we should That is what governments and people do when they don't want the general public to have knowledge of things that they deem 'unsuitable' and make them look bad. Erasing something from historical records doesn't mean it never happened. On the contrary, something like this is cultural, and should be preserved for this, as well as like we discussed in the last paragraph, so that people may learn from it what NOT to do.
I think a specific class to have an organized way to present these types of cultural/historical knowledge would be a good idea. Having someone who specializes in it, who can answer any questions; and make sure the point is driven home that these are things that we DO NOT want to repeat. What do you think?



I completely see where you're coming from, but unfortunately, there will always be people like this who are mentally unbalanced, and will latch onto something to be able to act out and fulfill their twisted, reprehensible desires. I'm sure there are scientists and ones in the mental health field who are trying to answer those very questions. But instead of blaming the ideas/stories that fuelled their actions, I look at the person. The mentally unstable person caused the horror, not the story/legend/idea. Therefore, fixing the person, not the stories, should be our first priority.



You're welcome, I'm glad we're all discussing this topic with civility now, instead of the bickering before. That's why haven't posted here for a few days. I didn't want to get caught in the hail-storm. lol And yes, thank you for clarifying your thoughts, I can see we agree on most of our points.

It is not how the World sees vampirism, it is the Hollywood archetype and neither of those two loonies have anything to do with vampirism.
Vampire myth and folklore has been around since the Sumerians and ancient Egypt

yeop. the babylonians had theirs too. then greece and rome had it going on as well.

It's worth noting that from the 1920s/1930s down to the 1960s the British gave an "X" (adults only) rating to almost all horror films. (This was long before X-rated films had their modern connotation.)

The X was awarded to even such comparatively-mild American imports as Boris Karloff's FRANKENSTEIN and Bela Lugosi's DRACULA, which drew not the slightest censure over here and were considered viewable by everybody.

I guess they could have been infulenced, I wouldn't have thought it was Tepes' influence, but could well have been Elizabeth Bathory's. Both lived a royal lifestyle and would have access to the foremost literature at the time.

The tie to Vampiric lore also was well after the two had passed on, so I have never seen Vampire refrences to the two as accurate. I find the only reference that sounds anything like inspiration (that Tepes had on Stoker) to be the surname - Dracul. Tepes life appears to have been vastly different from the Stoker story. I believe Tepes never consumed blood, as far as I know, that was a story to frighten his enemies. Still talking about it centuries later, I'd say he was successful in propogating that fear.

Pretty much every culture records some "Vampiric Entity", although chasing the sources reveals that the blood drinking was associated with a demon or some other evil entity. The term vampire was not common until the early 18th century, when immigrants brought vampire superstition into Western Europe from areas where vampire legends were frequent, such as the Balkans and Eastern Europe. Some local creatures were also known by different names, such as Vrykolakas in Greece and Strigoi in Romania. (suprising how many members are actually from Romania here, or at least claim to be) This increased level of vampire superstition in Europe led to what can only be called mass hysteria and in some cases resulted in corpses actually being staked and people being accused of vampirism. Which shows some people cannot distinguish fantasy for reality by way of irrational fears, and it seems, remains a problem to this day and the heart of this banter. An intruiging tale and shows the morbid fascination humans harbour, and how such morbid thoughts are gobbled up with delight. Strange lot aren't we.



Law enforcement needs to take responsibility, as you say, too much cash involved to even consider such a proposal. Lets hope it is only a matter of time before this problem is addressed by the authorities. Hollywood will never take responsibility for it's actions. Not on the agenda. Only heavy fines or shutdowns might make them reconsider.
And a new popular storyline. Maybe just a brilliant author is needed for this lot.

Lets hope such accounts do recieve the rating they deserve and ALL proceeds should be directly forwrded to victims families, and or research into this type of behaviour. It is a true crime that they recieve a brass razzoo for telling people of what they did wrong.

Elections. We need to start electing pollies that care, not the one's with the biggest brightest posters, they should in fact be boycotted for the flaunting of money when they are supposed to be the responsible one's. We are also responsible for this mess. Keep bad pollies feathering their own nest, and those of big bussiness. In general, the average person needs to research before voting, not vote because "Grandad, Dad Unle Tom and Uncle Fred always voted that way, I ain't changing" Sad what we ourselves are accountable for. We put these people in charge in the first place. I think we are up against quite a few bank accounts



Thanks, I have been thinking about this subject, and it seems a solution. Just how to get teachers and the media on board and place the emphasis in the right direction, not shock value to entertain people out of their money. I think some prices are indeed too high.

The only reason we do not have Crusades any more is since the West divorced religion and politics, the governing bodies changed "crusade" to "war". Same thing really, just religion in that instance has been replaced with the word freedom/human rights. Although, I do believe that you are correct in the general ideal being the crusaders were persecuted and prevailed. Hopefully historians can reconstruct all such accounts accurately.
Not suprising though, history is always written by the victor. Australia too has a disgusting and embarrasing history with regards to the indigenous inhabitants. Such actions seem to be more widely regarded as derogotory, and some



I could not agree more. The thing is switching the bias to a good and wholesome one. Shock value gets bottoms in seats, the mighty dollar has to be overcome in the first instance I fear.
An overall authoritive governing body, or type of "censorship board" is brilliant. As we do it for all other forms of entertaiment, these ones seems to have slipped past as I guess they have "always been there". Maybe the current media censorship boards might be a good place to start.
I really like this suggestion.



Agreed, but in the meantime, something like the above censorship board might be the band aid solution that keeps people alive untill we gain a real working knowledge of the human brain, or this fascination. It could be some time before we can adress such seemingly obvious human defects.



That we do. Glad I could e a little clearer, I must admit, I wonder if I should click every time my mouse hovers over the title. It can get quite heated in here, but after the death of that girl (and so many others) one is urged to protest at such actions, and attempt to prevent such a gross injustice ever repeating. I know I can't do anything, I just feel a need to try. At least try and take the steam out of the evil in the stories and let as many as possible know the real story. Flood the net with as much truth as I can I guess. Getting older, and having chased so many legends since childhood, I guess one becomes disillusioned at the very real and rational explainations that steal away the childhood wonder one's imagination permits from reading of such beasties. Heck, as a kid, color telly was not even invented, the world was quite a bit larger then and such things seemed a great deal more possible. Kinda sad science killed them for me, but I would rather know what really hapened to them, and not wonder for the rest of my life. Closure is a good thing and bring harmony. As Sagan said



Been a pleasure conversing with you

Actually, I would wager the majority of understanding of the culture is indeed attributed to the Hollywood legend. If a sub-culture such as you describe was to exist, it would certainly contain the minority. You yourself claim it to be a secret society that meets few, if any, of the "legendary" Vampire attributes. This is not in reference to what you claim as accurate accounts, merely statistics.

Ancient tales refered to demons and the like. The term "Vampire" came about in the early 18th Century. Blood drinking entities might do similar things the the hollywood Vampire, but the "Vampire" as such does not go back centuries. It's term has been applied to similar entities, which each distincly have a name which is not Vampire. Only human surmation makes the connection. No real connections exist, only similarities and a want.

Tepes I would not class as a loon. I would agree completely with regard to Elizabeth Bathory, but Tepes was more a leader and military man who was in the midst of a crazy war. The Ottomans commited vile crime against his family and country. He was just a military leader? Much of the information about his atrocities and cruelty comes from the German stories written about him, which were for the most part politically, religiously and economically inspired propaganda against Tepes. Although some of the stories have some basis in reality, most of them are either fictional or exaggerated. War gets ugly in many ways. I believe though, that the residents of his home town, Wallachia, were quite fond of him.



Source - Wikipedia.

Yes, you are actually correct in that some of them were indeed very fond of him, still to this day infact.

Now that is interesting. I wonder what proportion the crimes rates were at the time between the countries with regards to "fetish murder."

Britain has always had a much lower murder rate than the United States (this is usually attributed to the US still being, historically, a "frontier nation") but the ones they do have are just as bloody and just as fetishistic.

Look, for example, at Jack the Ripper and his 1888 London atrocities. And there seem to have been several Rippers active in the area at the time.

And even at the height of the "X" film era there was John George Haigh killing people for a few paltry bucks each (even though he was himself a successful businessman) and then dissolving their bodies in sulphuric acid.