Instead of "higher education" I think they should call it "higher indoctrination" cause all your gonna get at a university is spoon-fed political correctness and revisionist history. Even if you major in math or science you've still got to put up with the secular humanism! Ad infinitum! *ralphs at the thought*

Your better off thinking for yourself and spending some time in this forum IMO.

But you see that is what I am getting at. Whose truth yours that there cannot absolutly cannot be a God, or my truth that there has to be a God?


You see you have already discounted my truth. What happens if science does prove my truth to be right.

Your really not. Believe me that is a highly inaccurate description of higher education and there is a huge amount nonsense posted on this forum.

Education should also always be secular however it is important to be looking at something from the most objective view possible.

Actually, Yetihunter, not only is the school I go to considered a "Liberal Arts" school, but its also a Lutheran school.

And as opposed to what, Jerry Falwell's university? You think you'd actually get an unbiased education there? The nice thing about a liberal arts school is because I experience many different things I can formulate for myself what to believe in.

No it is important to look at something from every view possible that way you can then judge for yourself which view is the right one or the right one for you.


edited


That is what the liberals(political) in this country seem to be trying to do away with. The Conservatives aren't to far behind them on this issue either.

Objectivity is the most important part of education. That means you look unbiased (as possible) and not indoctrinate.

correct you are daniel

Well Mattshark - since you probably ARE a secular humanist you're not going to mind the indoctrination, are you?

Church - would you please stop with the Jerry Faldwell religious studies comments? I went to Cal Poly State and got a Bacheor of Science Degree. I've also gone on to an "advanced degree" and I'm sticking by my statements and I'd be happy to prove it if need be.

If Science proves that the Sun rotates around the Earth and the moon is it's own light source, I'll send you a written apology.

If Science prove that an invisible magic man created the entire universe in 6 days, I'll send you a written apology.

If Science proves there was a worldwide flood, I'll send you a written apology.

If Science proves that the Red Sea parted, I'll send you a written apology.

If Science proves that Jesus even existed, I'll send you a written apology.

Up until then - you'll excuse me if I somewhat doubt that Science will ever prove your truth to be right.

Have you guys noticed how all of my topics are usually called non-topics and then before you know it their 7 pages long.

Religion is taught in church not in school, that would be indoctrination. Religion unless you are studying theology should not be involved in education.


I'm sorry but I am amazed that you have a biology degree.

Oh, sorry about that Yetihunter, I wasn't questioning your personal education, I was just making a point. Liberal arts schools aren't that bad. I actually regularly disagree with teachers on many things, and disagreement in encouraged because it fosters debate, which is even better. I learn about many controversial topics through in class discussions, as well as research projects (some of which I loathe).

But in all seriousness, the Jerry Falwell University comment wasn't meant as an attack against your personal education. It was just an extreme example. Sorry about that.

Science has proven that the red sea can be parted with a 50 to 75 mile an hour wind if blowing at the right angle and in the right direction.

Whose 6 days.

I am sorry but if you cannot teach one unproven theory then you shouldn't be able to teach any unproven theories.


So what schools should say on the topic of how life got started WE DON'T KNOW. But after it got started evolution took over.

Do you have evidence of this? If you claim such a thing a source is required.

They teach numerous theories for the origin of life, the various possibilities are covered and analysed. However religious idea's are not taught because they are not scientific and are not theories. ID and creationism are not something that belong in a science class.

No worries Church! To be honest I'm glad I went to California Polytechnical and not Jerry Fallwells college. I have no problem with the university system as a source for higher learning in the sense that it's a prerequisite for further education or a professional career in many cases. However, I will stick to my guns and disagree with Mattshark. No, I'm not spreading false information, I would never knowingly do that. I know because I've been there.

Technically the red sea did part?? it was on the discovery channel...the SUPER VOLCANO near Crete..there was huge impacts and would have been felt all over the world...and a fault line underground, that ran right through the red sea, it opened up parted and all the water rushed in.so the sea level dramitically dropped, but where this happened, isnt where Moses and his people crossed the Red Sea.
Moses actually crossed the Sea of reeds, which was hundreds of miles north, and it was very shallow and you could walk accross it...The Sea Of Reeds was said to be mistranslated from the ancient scrolls as THE RED SEA....these two incidences where brought together for a more 'dramatic effect' to exaggerate the story <-----this is what they were saying on the documentary when giving an explaination to the so called story of Moses...it was sciences way o explaining all of the 10 plagues...........

Tiggs feel free to look into this..then.........you know the drill...start that apology

What you think it should not be taught from an objective viewpoint and religious dogma should be indoctrinated into education?

History Channel. That is the best I can do. and I think someone was able to walk across the red sea during the time that nepolian owned Egypt. Of course he was chest high in water at the time.

Well television is not the same as scientific evidence.

No, I agree that religion should be taught in a religious studies program. But secular humanism and political correctness should be taught in a poly sci or humanities forum. It's not just religious topics I have issue with. I STONGLY OBJECT to revisionist history. And that is happening every single day in this country - seriously, you need to open up your eyes.

They explained how but not the timing. Or how Moses knew that that volcano was going to cause all of those problems to start with.

Well, I'm glad you were. Obviously Jerry Falwell's college is going to have some ( ) bias. The university system is not bad, I agree. I like my liberal arts college though. Yeah its small and in a crappy town, but the education is outstanding, and the professors have me intrigued. The important thing about college is to make up your own mind about what's being taught to you. You choose to adhere to creationism, I choose to adhere to evolution, no ifs ands or buts. Ironically, I was taught about evolution not in college or high school, but in Catholic grade school. Weird, huh?

I'm not in your country. But as regards to bachelor level degrees I would argue that UK universities have a far stronger educational system anyway.
I am of the opinion all general education should be secular with the exception of theology.

I wouldn't bother teaching if my students didn't think for themselves and/or argue with me. Higher education is where you hone your critical skills and not where you become an academic automaton.

On Topic: I think it's truly a matter of that well-trodden cliche': Fear of the Unknown.

Exodus 14

21 Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the LORD drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided,
22 and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left.

I've bolded the important bit.

Just because you don't agree with what they said does not make them a bad source.

Moses didnt know, thats why they took those REAL events and used them to make give the story of Moses a more dramatic effect <---I wrote that in the previous post

If you watched this documentary daniel..you would see what I meant

Sorry, I thought you were in Florida. I can't comment on the UK system - my bad.

On the same show that becky's mom is talking about. They had a scientist show how said wind could devide the water and there would be a wall of water on both sides. Or at least water on both sides.

I was moved back to the UK recently. Just in time for the weather to start warming.

One of the biggest differences in the UK degree system is coverage. A degree is single subject and far more specialised, hence my degree Zoology with Marine Zoology covered that area and biological subjects only.

YES but thats just the dramatic effect and huge exagerating the bible gives to a real event that did take place....Moses never parted the red sea...the effects of the super explosion of the volcanio did it...the sea did part..but not in the explaination the bible says it it...science disproves this ...

I watched it but I guess I was being more critical of it than you were.

Im going to hunt a source for this info daniel...if you and I saw the same documentary ...then it should be easy to find..for I cant recall every detail the scientists where trying to explain

wanna help me look??

I know wiki is not the best source but I just have to say that I think this first line of an article sums up how I feel about ID/evolution/abiogenisis

"Abiogenesis
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article focuses on modern scientific research on the origin of life. For religious beliefs about the creation of life, see creation myth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

Clovis - I am not opposed to a liberal education at all. Maybe I was not clear but I only have a problem with religion being taught in science class. ID is not science, so it has NO place in a science course. I have no problem with all the ideas on creation being taught in a philosophy class or a comparative religions class. That is where creationism belongs. With the religious beliefs, not the facts of science.

What I don't understand is if creationism was taught, what about all the other creation myths out there? Do they all get taught? or just the ones you want taught? And by you, I don't mean you as an individual but your religion/belief systems idea of how life got here.....

Here is a brief list of creation myths - which of these belong along side the bible in a science class?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth

Very well put.

It's not that I'm threatened, afraid or dislike the imaginary God you believe in, but the people who believe it and proclaim their "truths" can cause problems. How can you be afraid or threatened by something that you don't believe in? You're not, you can be towards those who believe in it though.

I found the title but can't link to it's page.

http://www.history.com/search.do?searchTex...B=THC_SPIDER_V2


The exodus decoded. At least I think it is the show.

I believe the word was wall. I have no doubts that it's possible for a heavily reeded part of the red sea to dry up. What I dispute is the wall of water on each side. As far as I know, it's scientifically impossible to have water at two different levels without any kind of boundary between them.

Simply put - water tends to flow.

Again though a television program is not the same as scientific evidence. A paper is what is required.

There is a shelf that runs across the red sea it is this shelf that becomes dry under the right conditions and there would be water on both sides of it.

In a wall? I think not.

The people who wrote the show put their work on paper.



The term creation myth is sometimes used in a derogatory way to describe stories which are still believed today, as the term myth may suggest something which is absurd or fictional. While these beliefs and stories need not be a literal account of actual events, they may yet express ideas that are perceived by some people and cultures to be truths at a deeper or more symbolic level. Author Daniel Quinn notes that in this sense creation myths need not be religious in nature, and they have secular analogues in modern cultures



I followed your link then went to the creation myth link and came up with this.

The water that is pushed away from the shelf would be pushed up into a wall of water, and remain there until the wind dies. When the wind dies the shelf is instantly covered again.


The man used a box as a mock up of the red sea and a leaf blower for the wind. So it is on film at least under these circumstances that this could happen.

Can you link to the paper?

I just tried to I couldn't get the page to come up.


It is pretty obvious Mattshark that if I could you wouldn't accept it then either.

That is not true. If it was a legitimate piece of scientific work I would accept that such an event was possible. That is not to say I believe it ever happened.

* Shakes head *

And the tribe of Israel managed to cross during this 1000mph wind simulation, an event never ever experienced again in the entire history of mankind?

Let's make this simple. There is absolutely no historical proof that the exodus even occurred let alone the miraculous parting of the Red Sea.

no more than 100 miles an hour. and it has been close to being done at least one other time. The wind just didn't blow long enough.


Also since it is a remote area how would we know if it was only done once. Maybe Moses saw it happen and knew that the conditions were right for it to happen again.