Why are so many people threatened by God if he is not real.


They are going out of their way to destroy anything to do with God. Like this soldier suing the army. Did he try to go through channels when this Major threatened him no. He decided to sue first. Of course what he said about the major must be right because he is an atheist and the major isn't.


On this forum, the athiest and other non-believers attack Christians because they believe in an imaginary person/creature what ever you want to call him.


The Christains on this forum are on defense mostly. I do attack a little but I have a mental problem.

Daniel, I don't believe for a sec they feel threatened by something that they dont feel is real...it doesnt make sense

I mean it's like saying you feel threated by some weird monster thing that you didnt believe was real..well if its not real why feel threatened??

see my point?


Like what? can you explain a lil more on this?


A tad baised..for BOTH as as bad as eachother...Ive lost count how many have even went as far as to offer money to the non believers...someone recently made a thread calling ALL non believers stupid etc

I dont attack christians for following christ...when I sound abrubt to someone, it is only due to their post and the attitude ...not their faith

Bummer. I thought this thread was going to be about Osama bin Laden...

I know what you mean daniel. Not everyone is like that though some who do not believe simply ignore the total debate and continue their life in peace with themselves and everyone else. For the others who have an incessant need to disprove God or attempt to have believers somehow disbelieve I think it stems more from some internal conflict they have and their outward expression is simply how it manifests itself.

Well firstly, religious divide affects millions of people - whether you're a protestant in Belfast or a Kurd in Iraq. Untold suffering has always happened in the name of religious divide.

Secondly, whether you believe in it or not, modern science is well on its way to revealing the deepest mysteries of the universe, life and evolution. This is what we should be teaching our children and I find it abhorrent in the extreme that any form of education should be based on a religious viewpoint (which ID is).

Finally religion is ingrained in various soceties, meaning in many cases children don't have a choice whether or not to follow a particular faith. At least in this country the majority can chose when they become an adult.

I believe it is wrong for belief in God to affect socity in such negative ways.

I will defend anyone's right to believe what they want to believe as long as it affects no-one else (my family are Quaker) - but so many issues are thrown up by people's trust in God that it is my honest belief that society would be better off without religion.

I don't feel threatened by God, more threatened that believers have influence in politics/community standards which affect my life and the lives of others. So I dispute what their beliefs are based on, ie an old book - which IMO should have zero influence on how I or anyone else lives their life.

There are lots of Christians on the boards and most of the non-Christians grew up in Christian countries at least. That is why it appears so lopsided. And lots of you guys dispute evolution etc which most of the pagans, Satanists etc don't.

You guys are usually making the positive claim, which can be disputed by science or common sense.

I am just as happy to attack reincarnation or be 'attacked', as I am to attack a Christian to be honest. Just not as much opportunity lol.

I didn't say everyone was like that. I didn't say that everyone on here was attacking without provocation.


I did give an example. But we have this war on Christmas. If a store says merry Christmas the atheist want to sue them. What is Christmas really about it is about peace on Earth. Why would anyone be upset about that.

We aren't threatened by gods, we are worried about what those that believe in him may do under certain circumstances. Historically, those who follow gods have done some pretty evil things whilst believing they have a divine warrant.

Bad things aren't exclusive to the religious but it can really help a person justify their actions if they truly belive their god wants them to behave in a certain way.

I believe you are right Belle...it is NOT God they feel threatened by, its how so many believers push God as if God is a selling tool..and then in comes condeming

I do not dispute evolution. I do dispute spontaneous life.

I think you have set up a very simple situation that has not really occured and attacked that as if it is typical.

I'd like to see an example of that in real life please.

But what threads made by non believers are there that banter on about christmas??

And why are atheists threatened by God?? how come you dont see how it is the believers themselves (some)

Condemning is judging and a true Christian doesn't judge without facts usually.

To be FAIR about this...not all christians on this forum claim to be attacked

And I dont beleive you have a mental problem...you seem pretty normal to me

They aren't threatened by God, per se, they are threatened by the notion that there are people out there who think that everyone should believe in what they believe, no ifs ands or buts. They are threatened by what they view is Christian propaganda, which they believe gradually erodes the fine line of the separation of Church and state, something that many of us hold dear.

They aren't going out of their way, danielost. Many of them have legitimate claims. Most often all an atheist wants, with regards to the religious, is to be left alone, and many of the religious seem to think it necessary to go out of their way to bother atheists. I would know. I remember what it was like being an atheist. Not alot of people are big fans of atheists.

The Christians on this forum are on the defense... mostly? How? I've constantly had to defend my beliefs about cosmology and science from people who, no offense, I regard as severely undereducated in those subjects. They make unsubstantiated claims, which they find on B.S. propaganda websites like AiG, which have no basis in actual fact. Indeed, danielost, it wasn't the atheists who started this little "war" or whatever. It was the people who decided to push Creationism and I.D. as actual theories. Instead of facing the scrutiny of the scientific method, which they know their theories would fail, they use backhanded methods to try to get Creationism and I.D. to be taught in schools, like appealing it to government officials or boards of education. They cry boo hoo that their theories aren't taught in school, WHEN THEY RIGHTFULLY SHOULDNT. First of all, it violates the separation of Church/State clause, second of all they aren't theories. They're just ideas. I.D. sounds like it belongs in a philosophy classroom, and creationism should be taught in a world religions class. Neither should be taught in a science class.

and yet Jesus says - Judge not lest ye be judged <--so when a christian does this and condems and judges, they are going against what Jesus has taught

"Its like a box that one has, and another wants to see inside the box".
The more you say they "cant" see inside the more their going to want to look.
A brought on fascination of something that one cant see.

I myself am fascinated with the stories of Christ, origins of the Bible etc.
Behind every story you read theres a relevent lesson behind it.

Jesus said to that holy gentleman in the bible, "Cast your nets on the other side of the boat and you will catch enough fish to feed all those who are hungry".

'I went fishing up north, you know mangroves style, stinking hot determined to go home with anything In my fishing bucket.
Three hours later I started to get impatient.
So I cast my line on the otherside of the boat away from the mangroves. "Wouldnt you know It one Cat fish, one Mangrove Jack and a Sooty grunter and an almost Mud crab.

Now If that aint faith in a lesson learnt behind a contructive story, I'll go to church on Sunday.

I can see a fish, for If I have caught it myself Ive have proof In my hands as I cherish it.

Amen
Cool post DL.

I'm not threatened by God. God "Doesn't exist". "He" is not affecting me.

It's his people who claim to stand for him that I feel threatened by.




You answered your own question. We "attack" you guys. Not God.

And seriously if they didn't like it they wouldn't post.....unless they feel they must spread the word this way



I agree, and I am quite partial to the topics you post Daniel....even if they are a little cryptic at times lol.

Dont be scared, holy people are generally humble and pleasant.
"Stand for him". Sounds like preists and Nuns and stuff.
Standing for and believeing are very different from one another.

Believers rely on a higher being thats invisible.

This in itself cant harm you, dont let it threaten you either.
Respectively xcrimsonx.

I think you are perceiving it wrong. I think it's people threatened by those who are in certain positions who also use God and their beliefs in him to control others. They are afriad of losing their rights by such people.


For one, I do not think you read that thread right. Two, what other channels were you talking about, if you do not think he should sue?

I am soooo sick and tired of some who say that some people are trying to distory anything to do with God, when you bring it to light about thier situations and the bigotry against them if they do not believe. That soldier, from what I read, stated that he respects the people above and below him in the ranks, who did believe. It was him, when his Atheism came to light, that he was prejudiced upon. A higher ranking officer treated him wrong because of it, and I think that was wrong!!! Why do you think he is trying to distroy everything about God?? I didn't see it!



On this forum, I see everything happening. What you are implying happens between rare posters, who are Atheist and believers that do that. There are all kinds in every place. Not everyone does it, or shall you point fingers?




And I have a learning disability. Both situations are no excuse for a lack of consideration. I try to accomadate to post in the best way that I can. If I cannot, then I will leave. I wonder if maybe you should try to do the same for your situation, or just leave.

I don't think they want to destroy God. They want to destroy the use of religion as a political weapon to manipulate the population.

This could well read
"For the others who have an incessant need to prove God or attempt to have non believers somehow believe I think it stems more from some internal conflict they have and their outward expression is simply how it manifests itself."
and it would be just as relevant



fullywired

When I read this, your opening remark, I misunderstood you. But resistance to the following psychological phenomenon, the answer to the question which I misunderstood you to be asking, is sufficient motivation to face up to exploitation.

Since when does something really have to exist in order for you to fear it, or to be anxious about it maybe existing?

Experiment. Go to the bakery, and buy a small pastry. Take a knife, and press its flat side on the pastry's surface to make a small indentation. Now offer the pastry to people, telling them "I dropped this on the bathroom floor, but I think it's OK. I'm going to wash the floor today anyway. Would you like to eat it?"

The falsehood of your words is unrelated to their effectiveness in altering your audience's behavior.

Now take the same pastry, and tell any of the same people, "What I said before was just a joke that some guy on the internet suggested. Really, I just dinged it with a knife, it's pristine and clean."

The chances are now better that someone will eat it, but odds are that some still will not, simply because the possibility of contamination has been discussed, and you were obviously trying to fool them, either before or now, and maybe it's now.

And, of course, to complete the experiment with a proper control, just ding an identical pastry in the identical way, set the knife next to it, and offer the pastry without any explanation to someone who has not been part of the earlier trials. The pastry will be eaten without hesitation.

Psychology is not rocket science. Promoting fantasies as if they were facts is easy, lucrative, and beats working.

Every false belief that you have is a lever by which you can be exploited. In whatever way you can be exploited, someone will show up sooner or later to exploit you.

And returning to what you actually were asking: Resistance to exploitation justifies itself.

Yea I know LOL


Thats what he is getting at also...but he is claiming christians just get attacked or following their belief...he never stated the reality of it all

I see it as, to each their own. I like to follow the, if you don't bring it up, then I won't either.
(I stay out of your belief, and you stay out of mine.)

I grew up in the Baptist faith, preaching fire and brimstone. When I got older and better understood this faith,
I absolutely hated it. Pushing this absurd belief on people I just found to be rediculous. So, basically I refused
to go to church or even follow the belief anymore for that matter; I was yelled at and punished for it but, in
time my parents got over it, and it passed.

I never really did, (What you call!) get back on a religious path. I found it all to be to overwhelming, and biased
with it's condescending nature. Pushing one's beliefs on another, is foolish in my opinion.

I personally, find both sides, (Believers and Non-believers!) to equally participate in such debates. None are really
better than the other, when it comes to pushing beliefs.



Regards,
Tom

there isn't an imposition of beleifs unless there is some punishment or reward attached to it....there are disciplines that inspire thinking for oneself with ones thinking apparatus, this is not telling you what to think or demanding you think with the quo.... its thinking things through which requires elbow grease and courage because one may just come to a different conclusion then the herd... .

Well said Tom

The topic got sidetracked and so far no one has answered the simple question: Why do some people try to disprove God when they claim He is imaginary? That question in its purity has nothing to do with the people that follow God. It is doubtful anyone who disbelieves God will be able to self analyze themselves and actually be able to answer it much less even address the question. Simply put they will deny it or just ignore it.

Now now clovis that is not what the OP is

its this..


it doesnt say what you claim it does...it clearly says - why are so many threatened and as far as I can see clovis...so many including myself HAVE answered it

It's an analogy Clovis. Are you threatened by actions taken forth against the belief in a god?

If atheists attempt to disprove god because of an internal conflict, then the same can be said of any theist on this board. You are attempting to prove god out of an interal conflict. Don't spin this clovis. People attempt to convert others because they feel they are correct and have the truth.


I attempt to disprove god, because I do not believe he exists, yet he remains the most influential entity on this planet, without even existing. In my oppinion, this is negative influence. So just because god does not exist, does not mean I have nothing to fear. Whether you like it or not there is a war going on, between seculars and traditionalists. Some on both sides deny that it exists, but it does. Who wins this war will fundamentally alter the future of my country. If my side loses this war, we will be plunged into the dark ages, and those on my side, will lose their rights. This is a matter of freedom, something all deserve.

I don't believe in god and I've got no doubt that I've thought about it more than most theists ever have.

The problem isn't religion, it's ignorance.

RE-READ clovis post and hen go look at the OP..totally different statements BM...clovis has made a slight mistake in his post

The OP's questions are confusingly posed.

It opens with one question, then wanders through a recitation criticizing on procedural grounds a soldier lawfully pursuing his civil rights. Finally, there is speculation about the motives of those who argue on UM with the poster and like-minded members.

So, swell, instead of that porridge, you would like to discuss "Why do some people try to disprove God when they claim He is imaginary?"

That all but answers itself. Intellectually honest people back up their claims.

But I find no path from the OP to your question, which is about claims rather than the post's articulated concern with beliefs and feelings, plus a commentary on military life as bonus material.

The political use of "God" is real in the same way any other political movement is real. People are threatened because the political Christians think their moral superiority puts them in a position where they can take away their neighbors' rights.

I don't think most people feel threatened by the Creator of the Universe, Source of All Life, or whatever. They are threatened by the very human control freaks who live down the street.

haha I can care less if other people believe in God or not. In fact the Word says many people will not. There is no need for myself or anyone else to convince them for they have already made up their mind. End of story as far as I am concerned.

I still wonder why some people attempt to disprove God constantly if they truly believe He does not exist? For that question it is doubtful anyone would even attempt to answer....except for BM so far. Rest assured though BM the country will not plunge into the dark ages if your side lost the culture wars. It is even doubtful that Christians could ever win the culture wars for they are in a losing battle with the odds ever stacked against them in a disbelieving world. Thank you though BM for being the first to answer the question.

Does the abrahamic god threaten me? Only when I have the winning hand at poker.

No.. He doesn't threaten me. What threatens me is those who follow this god. Those who condemn me for my own beliefs. Those who use this god as justification for thier actions such as murder, war, and lieing to sway people.

If I were to ever pray to this god, it would be for him to save me from his three sects of followers.

As to why people try to disprove him? This can be flipsided. Why did the christians wipe out verious faiths, working to disprove the other gods? Why are christians then and now so afraid of other gods?

Why does say, myself being pagan, pose a threat?

Which BM are you thanking LOL

Validation I suppose. If only faith were that easy. We, as human beings, want to show ourselves that what we believe is correct. We need evidence, and a good way of doing that is debating against others. I had a nagging feeling for a while that there was some sort of higher power, and I used an old cosmological argument with a pinch of modernity to validate my beliefs. You validate your beliefs through the Bible, and I validate mine through my cosmological argument. The same thing with an Atheist.

That makes sense c&d. Validitation. Well now I have two good answers and yours makes much more sense than BM's (Messiah's) fear of a plunge into the dark ages.

Maybe people are inwardly concerned about the possibility of God actually being real. If you've lived your life with the premise that he's not real and he is.....you may not be prepared for eternity. IMO

And, the opposite may apply to the people who believe in gods supposed words.

Those that do believe in all powerful supernatural beings had better have picked the right one.

If you follow Abraham's god and it's actually Allah up there then boy, you'd better prepare yourself for eternity...

I guarentee you, churchanddestroy and I completely agree on that issue. I also gave his answer in the first part of my post. I said we believe it is true to we try to prove it. It's the same for any belief. He has made similar statements before about being plunged into the dark ages. We simply differ over whether a god exists. However, the difference between a deist and an atheist is so small. Don't try and divide two people who are in complete unison and disagreement with you, and act as if they are in contradiction.

There is no doubt many of them doubt that very fact.

No Atheist is threatened by God (who is imaginary.) Only by the believers who let their faith influence them a little too much.

If the Jews are right or the Muslims are right, you're going to hell... also yeti, if people debate because they are inwardly concerned their views are incorrect, perhaps that is why you are here. You doubt the existence of god maybe?

That is not necessarily true especially concering the Christian God. Those who follow the law will be judged by it and those who do not will be judged by their own conscience. The Bible clearly says this so people who never heard of this God or even believe in Him still have a chance.

A good lawyer knows the law but a better one knows the judge.

Nice one Clovis! Mind if I use that sometime?