So, just like the title and the Description say

what do you think about the Gryphon?

Mythalogical Creature?

Or

Real Creature that exsists/exsisted

also heres a pic i found of them, though its probably not acurate...

Why would an animal ever needs wings AND 4 legs?

Im thinking definate myth

From what I read it was probably the skull of a Protoceratops that started the myth

Yep it was peiced together from a whole host of different creatures

Tis a myth. Right in there with centaurs and dragons (couldn't help it, )

It wouldnt take much to start a myth back then (early civilization), if someone found dinosaur bones and claimed it was a gryphon, centaur or dragon how would you contradict them at that time?

Purely mythological, but beautiful - I think they're one of the most visually appealing creatures out there, to be honest. If I wasn't lazy and crap at bird heads I'd draw them a heck of a lot more. xD

The composite eagle-lion gryphon is of course a complete fantasy, but were considered real in several cultures due to a combination of countless genuine sightings of real dragons (from a great distance, otherwise the viewer would probably be eaten), combined with the discovery of protoceratopsian skulls in regions haunted by dragons such as mongolia.

This is why in ancient artwork gryphons are almost always a reptilian green in color and often portrayed with dragon-like spines on ther backs and belly scutes like a dragon. People knew dragons had large claws, wings, and with the discovery of beaked skulls, dragons became a 'dragon hybrid'. Like dragons they are associated with being guardians.

mythical, just like centaurs, minotaurs and dragons etc.

none of these existed.

So where did the lion thing come from, then?

Seems a bit of a huge coincidence that...

Lions are guardians in china.
Bixies look feline.
You say Bixies are dragons.
You say gryphons and dragons are seen as guardians.
You say gryphons are dragons.
Gryphons are part lion.

What explains all the "feline-like" dragons?

No coincidence. Many depictions of european dragons are very woflike becasue this was the carnivore they were most familiar with, and anyone who 'met a dragon' usually did not come back to tell about it. The Chinese were very familiar with tigers, and also knew dragons had dangerous clawed feet and sharp teeth, so it was natural that their dragons sometimes took on feline attributes. But as we have seen, some 'bixies' do not look feline at all. Why the difference? The records state that some dragons were friendly, and even civil servants were paid to tend visiting ones. Therefore the realistic dragonesque bixies were based on an artist seeing a freindly dragon up close. Artists who only had tigers as a carnivore model, often gave the 'dragon' very feline characteristics. It is all very logical and neatly explains the archaeological record of the so-called 'bixie'. And I would add that this dragon bixie is not a specific tomb guardian statue, but was simply the popular way dragons were depicted in china over 2000 years ago, becasue they appear on military belt buckles, imperial seals, etc.

You didn't answer my question.

Sure I did. In the simplist terms, Chinese artists who had not seen a real dragon close up, gave them attributes of the fiercest carnivore they were actually familiar with, large felines.

No, you did not.

Please don't let this degrade into another dragon thread. Please.

DC, as much as you believe gryphons are dragons, please dont turn it into a debate as to wheather or not Dragons exsist thank you

Personally i didn't really know, i was bordering on myth and i do think its a myth now, unless that is someone can bring proof of there exsistance

but in a sense WraithGod is right, it's a myth but an apealing one

what are others oppions



reason for edit: Wrong name

Agreed. Please, lets all stick to the topic, and not turn this into another useless debate with DC on the existance of dragons.

That being said, I believe that gryphons are purely mythological, but are a powerful and beatiful symbol. They combine some of the best attributes of some of the most feared/respected creatures in nature. And I have also heard that the myth originated from the skull of a protoceratops, but no one can be sure on that. Definately one of my favorite mythological creatures.

It's a mythological being, and ancient people are just being creative, they tried to create the strongest animal both on land and air, so they crossed lion and eagle and voila, along came Gryphon. Just like the today's people they imagined about crossing ninjas and turtles, to get the most powerful self-defense warrior, voila, along comes Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

But anyway, since the ancient Sumerian, maybe back even more, these gryphons has been widely known, and not just in ancinet Persia, but also to China/ Kore and Japan. Thanks to the silk road.

Fossils of Terror Birds and Ceratopsians probably gave rise to the legends. Terror Birds had claws which could have added the lion traits to the myth. Both type of creatures had the big beaks.

hmmm interseting well thanks for that bit of info

heres another pic i found on Yahoo images

What I find really interesting is in a book I read griffins are supposed to be the "hounds of God" that devour and carry away sinners. They are a combination of the eagle, which represents wisdom and grace, and the lion, which is charisma, courage, and strength. Jesus is represented by the lion, and the dove, so I guess someone thought that since the griffon is part bird and part lion it has to relate to Jesus.... Or something. I don't know how authentic that theory is, but here are some pictures of griffins:

http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/images/Griffin.gif
http://schools.cbe.ab.ca/b826/images/griffin_up.png
http://www.crystalinks.com/griffin.gif
http://www.crystalinks.com/griffin2.gif
http://www.albany.edu/faculty/griggs/208/8/griffin.jpg
http://www.griffinbailey.com/images/Griffi...lantGryphon.jpg
http://www.griffinbailey.com/images/Griffi...ueBarcelona.jpg
http://www.griffinbailey.com/images/Griffi...y%20Griffin.jpg
http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Nina-Bole...-C12487951.jpeg
http://members.aol.com/Alyenah/gryphon.GIF
http://josephnigg.com/images/jnigg-340-Untitled.jpg

Oh, and look, a book about the history of griffins that doesn't say anything about them being draconic....
http://josephnigg.com/work6.htm

But yes, let's keep this thread on track, shall we?

Wow, thanks for all the links and it wierd it didnt post my pic.... go figgure

Let's just say I was obsessed over mythological creatures when I was young. I know quite a bit about them, I have to admit. Hm, I wonder why it didn't post your pic... weird.

ya, o well but thanks for all of the links

when i was younger and less into dragons

i was a huge fan of gryphons, dam if only i could find that website that had all of those awsome pics.... o well (the site is probably dead cause i can't seem to find it anymore)

but thanks

I read that in Christianity, Gryhpons can be a symbol of Christ. A union of earth and the heavens.

Interseting well, thanks for that bit of information


so who else has an oppion?

Crypid or Mythalogical Creature?

C'mon, you're not really serious, are you? But then, since you evidently believe in dragons, maybe you are.

DS, there's quite a difference between cryptid animals and mythologicals. One category has a slim (usually darned slim) chance to actually exist. The other category are fables and old tales of ridiculous creatures that can't possibly exist. No matter how many video games one plays.

I love the idea of gryphons; they are one of my favorite mythical creatures. The possibility of them existing is very appealing, and if they did exist I would be one happy girl. But sadly I highly doubt they are alive today. They are absolutely gorgeous. Most mythical creatures never appeal to me much, but gryphons certainly are very stunning creatures, whether mythical or not.

I have memories from when I was little about seeing a gryphon in my forest. I had an overactive imagination then, but my mom used to tell me that when ever someone told me I was imagining him, I would throw a fit. I don't remember much now, and I'm sure I imagined it, but it was still pretty cool, anyhow. I called him Airryaxe.

"oh, so ur a girl dragon." ^.^

-donkey

.................what?

Yes i believe in dragons however you are right but i said that to give those a fair chance IF they thought it were true, i think its a mythalogical creature

so heres a new quetion for you all on the topic/forum

What are some of the myths/legends that surround gryphons?

what do you think?

also pics would be appreciated thank you!

i dont really know alot well atleast compared most of you about cryptid animals or mythological animals.
but i think that in their time mythical creatures were criptid with like incorrihible1 said with a slim chance they exist ,but as time went on people would belive in them less and less untill when they would be brought up in a conversation they would just say their miths and legends,thats what makes me think that in like a few hundred years or more the cryptids from this time will be nothing but mythical creauters.
but like i said i dont much about cryptids or mythical creatures.
so i think that the gryphon was a cryptid but now just another mythical crearure.

I would love if Gryphons existed. They are my favorite Cryptid. Like, they're just so cool. The two greatest symbols of power and peace, the lion and eagle, combined in one. Gryphons are just so magestic. I don't think they exist on earth. I'm a Christian, so maybe in Heavan they exist....But, I absolutely love them..I mean, if in a preview for a movie, if I see a gryphon, I must see that movie...lol

the griffin comes from sightings of protoceratops fossils from the gobi desert
the beak, four legs, and the crest broken and moved could have looked like wings.

To state that Griffins are misidentified other animals is not "getting off the track", it is an attempt to explain them, which is what this forum is all about. In fact your own quote of griffins "carrying of and devouring sinners" is actually attributed to dragons, not griffins in Judao-Christian theology. I will cite the ancient text, Apocolyspe of Baruch. What is the actual ancient source for your claim griffins do this? In fact, I believe well-meaning Christians possibly created this false information originally attributed to dragons, in their attempts to rewrite the heavenly dragons out of the original theology because of their problem with the 'satan dragon'. Griffins are not even menitoned in the Bible, because everyone by this time knew they were actually dragons, though they may have believed griffins had died out because of the beaked dinosaur and terror bird skulls they may have seen.

In the dark ages, the griffin reappeared, without its reptilian characteristics, becasue the barbarians saw them on ancient monuments. sometimes if.

I canot recall any eye witness reports of living griffins, yet there are hundreds of eyewitness dragon acounts. Now you know why.

Have you guys seen one post that DC has ever made, that doesn't relate to Dragons? Like, in a topic bout Gryphons, he mentions Dragons. He brings em up in everything. I mean, I've seen him mention them in Vampire threads, or sea-monster threads...When does it end DC?

Seconded. Also, let us not automatically declare any cryptid that comes into topic on these boards a dragon.

Mythical creatures. Just someones imagination to combine a giant hawk with lion features.

Try to act a little more mature. I have made MANY posts in UM unrelated to dragons, but as for gryphons, and excellent case can be made that they were based on a combination of real dragon sightings and the skulls of terror birds and Protoceratopsians. That's why they are painted GREEN in ancient art, as we would expect a reptil to be.

Of course they relate to sea monsters, many dragon legends claim dragons dwell in the water. They have nothing to do with vampires though, save for the name of a fictional vampire (though real person) Dracula.

DC, how about posting some actual EVIDENCE when you make claims like this, hm? Where are the records of griffins being depicted as draconic and green? The griffin could have been painted in a way that the pain turned green over time, such as with copper. But please, this is a thread about griffins, not dragons, so please keep to the topic at hand before someone reports you for thread derailment.

oh come on..

griffins are not dragons
they are protoceratops fossils not a combination of dragon myths and fossil bird skulls
not every four legged winged creature has to do with dragons

plus if the thought it was reptile then why is it part bird and lion?, two creatures that are not reptiles

Atleast somebody seems to understand the reason why they can't be dragons.

Anyway, I look at it like this; these creatures were fabricated from the king of the sky, (An eagle!) and the king
of the grounds, (A lion!) They were merely symbolic representations for guardians. One can find them on tapestries,
doors, beside a kings throne etc.

Adrienne Mayor draws upon similarities that exist between the prehistoric Protoceratops skeletons of the steppes leading to the Gobi Desert, and the legends of the gold-hoarding griffin told by nomadic Scythians of the region. This is not evidence of a connection, only speculation.

The Gryphon is even on Canada's Coat of Arms



The way i was explained it, it was to represent our connection to Englend

Since when do protoceratopsians fly? No wing bones have ever been found, and it is ridiculous for anyone to believe the flange on the skull had anything to do with wings. This is nonsens cojectured be a writer trying to sell her book. The ONLY way ancient people would associate protceratopsian skulls with a giant flying green quadrapeds is because they saw dragons in the sky from some distance away.

This is why people created the gryphon. They saw large green flying monsters, but since dragons never seem to die, they only found the beaked skulls of these dinosaurs common in mongolia, and put them on the 'head' of the real dragons they saw.

Proof of this is the fact that although the Chinese lived closer to mongolia, they did not acknowledge gryphons. Becasue dragons were friendly to this culture as the hirstorical record confirms, people saw the dragons up close, with some accounts citing dragons even giving them 'rides' and civil servants employed to take care of their needs.

But to the dragons, the ingnorant barbarians of the steppes were regarded as little more than food, so nobody lived long enough to see these large flying predators up close and tell about it. They could only assume that the beaked skulls of the dinosuars they found, had to belong to the terrifying fying monsters they saw in the sky.

I don't see the gryphon in that image, I see two lions and a unicorn. But it was a common heraldic emblem, like dragons. For around 100 years the official coat of arms of England had a red dragon because this was the emblem of the Tudor family. The crest of London still retains the Tudor dragon. The unicorn in the crest you show exchanged the dragon because Elizabeth had no heirs so the Tudor dragon had to go. Unicorns were believed to be real becasue i was though Narwhale horns belonged to unicorns.

Well the way I see it, it can be real. Who knows?

DC, if all your going to do is change the subject to dragons then leave, this topic is to speak of GRYPHONS not dragons

Assuming Gryphons were real, what would the point of having feathers and fur? One would think that an animal would have one or the other.

(Note: I believe they are symbols of power, nothing more)

Ya your right there, but still they are a powerful symbol and they look cool

but now back to my secondary question

does anybody know any myths or legands that surround the gryphon?

Note: DC, we allready have your oppion so don't go changing this into a disscussion about dragons
Thank You