So, any clandestine replicas on Ebay yet. I'm interested. As a student of Relative History, I'm curious on how the Swiss Expedition went to locate the actual spear that pierce Christ's side.

No, I'm serious as I heard it happened.

This was, after all, Hitler's attempt to establish a front, now occupied by a Germanic Catholic Pope. Has it succeeded. Should I pray for the reverence of him.
I'm in no way joking either.

As, it's clandestine reproach is related to a Gentleman I'm somewhat familiar with. A certain Reverend Dr. Bartholemew Brown, whom indicated he as aware of God's plan for the Cosmos in that Christ would not bear other sins from extra terrestrial beings.

This puzzles me, because since the Pope has recently visited, he just condemned the acts of some Catholic Bishops, yet did not extend beyond trouble Homeland. Within which its scope is none discretionary.

As I myself took the liberty to notice non-assignment of an Arch Bishop.

Okay, the lance is only mentioned in the gospel of john. There are several lances throughout Europe claiming to be THE one, The Vatican Lance, The Echmiadzin Lance, The Vienna Lance and others which are contested as replica. Although this is mainly a religious persuit as 'evidence' of holy relic's were needed to bolster faith.

I know of the Nazi expedition to find the lance, im not sure if this is what your reffering to, im not sure of a Swiss one though.

Even if they found it, how could they prove its identity?

As... uh, ex-Rector said, just like any other relic floating around, there are several competing ones trying to be the "real" one -- there are no less than 17 foreskins of Jesus in Europe. My bet is that the real one -- if there was a real one -- faded to dust centuries ago.

--Jaylemurph

Yeah, just like it, you're there...

Still, though as a cross-implied-referencial post:

"Triumph of the Swill" is one of my favorite Dead Kennedy's songs. Someone cross like in what are you listening to thread.
Thanks.

The horror author James Herbert wrote a fictional book named 'spear' if i remember rightly. It was all about the nazi's successful quest to get the spear of longinius. That's the only place i've seen a nazi quest mentioned.

With the Annexation with Austria, the Nazi's automatically came into possesion with the Vienna Spear. It was then moved to Nuremburg but returned after the war, should of been a bit clearer.

so how do we know which one is the real one if still around?

If you mean Christ's foreskin, the test is actually pretty easy.

You sprinkle it with holy water and wait a few seconds. If it's real, it should jump up and start singing:

"Hello my Baby,

Hello my Honey...,

Hello my Ragtime Gaaaaalll!!"

Harte

It's extra chewy.

An easy way to figure which spear is real is as follows and I am being serious.

1. Take a sample of blood from each spear (if blood is avail)

2. Do a DNA cross check on each sample.

3. One of the DNA's should have some kind of an abnormality in it compared to the others and bingo you got your spear.

Why would you expect an abnormality?

(notice my avatar lol) Spear of Destiny would be an amazing find, but it is true that would be hard to prove it exactly

You don't think Jesus the son of god who could do miraculous things would not have some kind of DNA abnormality? If it didn't then I would not believe anything the bible says.

I have the feeling that Vhundabhar is just a misspelling of the German word "Wunderbar" (Marvelous) and therefore the old scar I have that starts hurting when I see a hoax is itching....

No, not necessarily.

I caught that, too, QM... Personally, such things make my wallet itch, not a scar.

--Jaylemurph

the "true" artifact woul be of great value, historically and religiously. the spear that wounded a god, the spear that wounded the son of god, the spear that wounded the god made flesh. where blood and water floowed out from the body of christ.
the aforesaid artifact is beleived to be of value mostly due to the following mentioned-a weapon that of supernatural proportion that could even hurt a god. i wonder why who ever beleived this didnt looked for the nails that was hammers on christ palms and feet...
What ever the beleif is, finding this would be a great historical value

They did, con-men arent a modern construct read the Canterbury Tales. Many people throughout olde Europe claimed to be selling parts of the True Cross, or True Nails, Relics etc,

Smart men, they were. By the way, I've got a bag of Stardust for sale. It'll cure whatever ails ya!

But as for the Spear of Destiny... if it's supposed to be some kind of supernatural weapon, then wouldn't the Shroud of Turin have some sort of supernatural powers? Ability to heal anything or something like that? (Kind of like my bag of Stardust? )

Yeah the Shroud must be the cape in the whole super hero set

I saw a discovery channel documentary on the subject, i think the program was called "the spear of destiny" most candidates for the spear can easily be dismissed because their not of the Roman period, a spear in Vienna that had once belonged to charlemagne was taken to Hitler by German troops and was returned to Vienna after the war by the Americans, it looked as if it could be from the right period, the centre of the spear was cut out and a nail from the cross fitted into it, a gold band around the spear was inscribed, a metallurgist was given permission to do tests on the spear, on removing the gold band he found a band of silver underneath also inscribed (i don't remember what the inscription's said) if my memory serves me right the metallurgist thought the spear was not quiet old enough.

This is a lance head displayed in the Schatzkammer, or Treasury Museum in Vienna as the "Holy Lance." One of the stories is that it may be the Spear of Destiny, that is, the spear which was used to pierce Christ's side at the crucifixtion



Back in 1911 or so, Hitler would visit this relic and stand on this very spot, transfixed by the amazing history of this relic (Wikipedia reference). Hitler believed that, while in posession of this spear, he would be invincible. In fact, while in Vienna for only two days (or was it eight hours? I forget) in 1939, he spent two hours of in the museum, waiting while the relic was placed under his control.

Hitler invaded Poland two days later.

UPDATE: The spear was also recently analyized on a Discovery Channel special and although not thought to date from the time of Christ, it has some other unusual features. The spear itself contains a nail thought to be from the "true cross", but that nail inside has ANOTHER nail inside THAT one that they cannot properly date!
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Here is something i found. Does anyone have any further details about the nail within the nail? I wonder how that happened?

I believe that it is possible that there is a real spear of Christ out there somewere. Even if it's still buried somewere near were Christ was nailed on the cross. Where was that exactly? Has anyone dug around there?

Seems to me about as likely as finding the arrow which shot Baldr. The incident is only mentioned in John, likely the latest and least accurate canonical Gospel. Like many incidents recounted by John, it was probably included for some symbolic or christological reason (most likely to quash the growing anti-resurrection rumour that Jesus didn't actually die on the cross), rather than to record an independent tradition.

Anyway, in the immortal words of Baldrick, "I am amazed, my lord... I thought they only came in packs of ten!"

There are many legends that stem from the crucifixion. The gypsy and the nails of the crucifixion. There is of course the Lance of Longinus (aka Spear of Destiny) and the legend that says he is destined to walk the earth until the end of days. If he is still alive I wonder where? I met a girl who was taught by Jesuits, she told me another name, the true name, of Longinus...I wish I could remember it. It has been 8 years and I cannot find it anywhere. The Celtic Encyclopedia says King Arthur's daughter Melora searched for it. If it does still exist it is carefully guarded by one of the ruling families of the world and not on display in any museum.




+ for the OP my favorite DK song is California Uber Alles

Yes that's the one i was referring to

Blackadder: That was irony, Baldrick. Do you know what irony is?

Baldrick: Yeah... It's like gold-y and bronze-y.



Well, in the Celtic-inspired Grail mythology, lances and spears are whacking great phallic symbols. I'd b amused if Longinus' spear was the same for Christians. It certainly put a new spin on the foreskin remark I made earlier.

--Jaylemurph