I decided to make this a new topic since it is slightly different.


Since God controls everything. This then means that he would control the outcome of any science experiment. It is also well known that God doesn't want us to have absolute proof that he is real.

So any experiments that would revel that he is real. Would not have any results that he was real. Or, am I wrong about this.


If you had a test subject but didn't want him/her to know that you were testing them. Could you not stop them from knowing no matter what tests they preformed to prove that you were there.

I don't think that God controls the outcome of science experiments. But when I see this it kind of makes me wonder....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOMiowrff0Y&feature=email

I think science in its best form helps us to see the wonders of God. So many scientists who don't even acknowledge his existence actually do his will!

If God controls everything, then why the hell doesn't he just make us mindless zombies to be 'perfect' and do his bidding?

IF God controls everything, then why doesn't he heal amputees?

If God controls everything, then why is the devil still allowed to live?

If God controls everything, then why does he listen to our stupid prayers, and not to the ones from starving children in Africa/South America?

Don't tell me 'God works in mysterious ways', because that wouldn't be true.
It would be something more like 'God works in radical, stupid, arrogant, and careless ways.

Cheers,
SQLserver

1 free will

2 he leaves it up to us to help.

3 the devil has an eternal soul like you and I do

4 he has answered their prayers. The united states among other nations has the ability to grow enough food to feed the world and we do.

You are guilty of this logic question:
If god is omnipotent, can he create a rock that he cannot lift?

And this one, too:
If god is omniscient, why even bother with free will? He already knows how everything will turn out.

So, what, the U.S has enough to feed the world and chooses not to? A tad simplistic, n'est pas?

that is true if he knows every thing that ever was or will be why does he waste his time in the first place, he already knows the outcome

Daniel this is just your mind trying to figure out why there is no evidence for God.

1. If God controls everything free will doesn't matter at all. It's even said in the Bible that God made the Pharoh's heart cold to help the Israelites escape Egypt. THAT is not free will on the Pharoh's part. Obviously God doesn't care about free will or he wouldn't have done that, even if it was for the Israelites' benefit. It's not fair, God's lying about free will, and it's not loving.

2. If God is perfect then he would know we wouldn't help, and do something about it. Humans in positions of power and wealth are not going to help other humans unless they get something out of it. That's just how people are.

3. If Jesus died on the cross for our sins that means as long as you follow Jesus you can do anything you want and still be saved. I've asked several Christians this and they all agree to this, but I don't know if everyone does. Jesus died to save ALL OF US, so in actuality that means we can do anything we want.

4. God should know that America doesn't care about starving children in Africa. If America gave Africa all of that food, our economy would fall apart, Africa would become too developed and we wouldn't be able to suck benefits from them anymore, they won't accept genetically altered food anyway (and it's bad for their native environment and could potentially destroy the native flora), and they have nothing to give us in return for this food. America doesn't care. Individuals may care, but our government doesn't, and God should know that. He's been able to interfere with free will before, so he could do it again if he cared.

He does you don't

Very insightful response Lady Otterwynnd! Excellent points!
The world is not perfect. As humans we do have a responsibility to take care of our own little corner of the world, though. If everyone actually picked up this small responsibility, the world would be a far better place!

5. If God did everything for us we would become to dependent on him.





And Cain said am I my brothers keeper.


Scientifically or religiosly we are all related.

I believe He does control all daniel even experiments. The reason He simply does not come down and say whats up is because mankind (Adam) chose to cut themselves off from Him. This spiritual connection was the tree of life. Belief allows one to be able to reestablish that connection.



Freewill and destiny coexist.



Even coin tosses or science experiments fall in this. He not only knows but allows the results of experiments.



He knows every step before we take it. He even knows the exact course of the nations. Every single factor that leads to a rise of a nation, marriages, emotions that led to independence, the resources available to wage a war to form a nation....He knows it all before it is done.



He knew from creation that He would come down as Jesus and be crucified, rise on the third day, and ascend.

here is some small proof of what I am talking about.


The ancient Greeks had all the parts they needed to build a steam locomotive. They even demonstrated that steam could be used to do work. With the same experiment they also demonstrated the jet engine.

God should know that we won't do these things. If he's so benevolent he would change things. He did so in the past, so he should be able to now. Humans simply don't connect with each other on this level. A wealthy man living in America with everything he wants or needs isn't going to care a bit about the millions of starving children in the world. We just don't. Humans are faulted in this way, and we always have been. Instead of God letting us wallow in our own failure as a united species, he should be able to give us a nudge here and there, if he's so controlling. Obviously he would want us to succeed as a whole, so why let innocent children who worship him and cry to him for the heavens to rain die of famine and hunger? That's just cruel. If he knows everything, he knows we won't help them. Therefore, he should do something about it instead of letting them all die. We may be our "sibling's keeper" in the metaphorical sense, but we really don't care. There is FAR too much prejudice, anger, stereotypes, discrimination, fighting, and misunderstanding for us all to love each other. Do you think fundamentalists who want all Pagans to burn at the stake care about how people feel? No. Anyone who isn't for them deserves to die or be forced into their religion in their eyes. That is not unity, love or caring. We can't just blame God for not intervening, because if he truly, truly cared about us and wanted us to live happily, then he would do something. Free will doesn't matter to him at all if he can control everything. If he gave us free will, he wouldn't change the outcome of experiments because he's changing the way we think and perceive things.

I disagree with part of the last sentance. I mantaine that Christ and God are two seperate people.

.

This statement is way to biased.

there are a lot of rich people doing what they can to help others. As I have said it isn't just the united states but the rulers of some of these countries.

Even if we could get the food to the country the rulers won't let them get it.

I'm afraid to ask what kind of tests and test subjects?

On another note, if God controls everything, wouldn't he tell everyone about himself without the use of a spokesperson, a building, and a holy book?






So why did God allow them to be brought into the public eye now, and not then?

He doesn't want us to know for sure he is real.


we weren't ready for it then

The Roman Empire was unstoppable until they reached the limit of their horses. imagine what they could have done with trains.

Everyone has bias, Daniel. That is how I view God and Christianity, so that is how I am going to state my beliefs on the subject. I'm not going to sugar coat what I say in order to be politically correct. I respect your views on this subject, but these are controversial items that I find to disprove your point. I'm sorry if they're biased, but what you say is biased as well.

What rich people are you talking about exactly? Sure, Bill Gates donates tons of money to people who need it, but only because his wife badgers him. If his wife wasn't there to help convince him to give the money away, he would keep it all to himself.

Why does God answer prayers about lowering gas prices in the US, but he won't give starving children food? Why does he let rich people be rich and poor people be poor? That is not fair or loving, even if humans have free will. No one really has free will though, unless you're a totalitarian leader, of course.

Do you have documentation for this or is this just opinion?



(Ecclesiastes 1:12-18)

Solomon's answer is basically that God set it up that way for His own reasons and there is nothing we can do to fix it.

I don't have documentation for that, but it's not my opinion. Someone at my school did a report about it when we were studying Africa. My history teacher then proceeded to give us a lecture on the subject, so no, it's not my opinion.

Even if God set up the world on his own whim, that defies free will. You can't have free will and absolute control at the same time. If there's nothing we can do, then we're just puppets for God's will, which isn't loving. A loving God would give us free will, which means he wouldn't be able to control the destiny of the world because we have the free will to change our world. "Just because God wants to" isn't a very good reason for the way things work.

Looking at the state of the world, if God controls everything he is a not very nice word that I am not allowed to say on this site.

now I do believe in God. I believe our lives are paths that we and God laid out for the experience we needed/wanted long before we got here. God knows all. yep. all goes according to plan. yep. from beginning to end. yep. So actually God has only to sit back and let it all play out in a sense . although I'm sure time/space means something different to God.

that aside we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Humanly we may not understand or agree , but if we did we wouldn't be having a human experience would we? If everything happens for a reason , and I believe it does even if I don't agree or even hate it , it does happen for a reason. too tiring to keep my head wrapped around that concept 24/7 ( heck for any length of time) .

what ever happens does. choice/free will is just an illusion to keep us grounded in human living.(in any given moment you can only choose one , the one you were supposed to. you may change your mind , but that's a different moment in time and still one path. ) but spiritually we're right on track.

that's my 2 cents ......

Nicely worded. Could not agree more.

wait, wait wat? are you saying I don't know that god knows everything ? im confused. I dont belive in the bible god anyway

You are assuming that god exists. But there is no evidence to suggest he does. Therefore, everything that follows has no merit what so ever.

Sorry I have given two modern points of evidence of Gods existance just because you don't accept them isn't my problem.

To the OP, nothing scientific will ever confirm or deny the existence of God simply because it is a matter of faith. That's how its meant to be. He wants us to choose to believe in Him. Not force us to through proof or commands, but by faith alone.

Now this post here, I ALMOST agree with it. The only thing I disagree with, is free will being an illusion. IMHO I believe it truly does exist, and that is why we are having this 'human experience' to begin with. It was choice. We chose to seperate ourselves from God, and this whole material experience is to reverse those effects. We are re-learning what we always knew, basically.