It is not that simple because evolution is a fact that I can prove in my kitchen sink. That all variation the exists today evolved is a theory based on observable fact, but, in science there is no real difference between theory and fact. Newton's natural gravity is a theory, would you not also say that it is a fact? What about the germ theory of disease? Would you be here arguing that it was not a fact because it is a theory? I have many cultures of bacteria growing in my lab, wanna test that theory? Or I have some HIV samples if anyone is really daring.

Evolution does not deal with inanimate matter.

So -- a theory is a fact? That is a brand new ball game, is it not?
Karlis

Scientifically we can show it was not a creator.
First we start of with the hypothesis that it was given by a creator.
This would mean a null hypothesis that it was not given by a creator.
We examine the evidence and find none showing that there is a creator.
Hence we statistically have a 0% probability of a creator.
Hence we can reject the hypothesis and accept the null hypothesis.


No evidence of creator = No evidence of creation.


QED

Did you read the numerous definitions that you have been given?
Your either ignorant or unable to understand, which one?

LOL karlis please dont tell me what I can and cant se in front of me LMAO...I KNOW what real facts are..and evolution is real fact...its been proved...now just because you fail to see it, that sir is NOT my problem, its yours not mine

God, faith and low and behold FACTS...big time...there is such a thing as faith and fact going hand in hand lol

trick is for me is being smart enough to SEE it <---speaking on my own behalf

ok same question to you..can you prove God did it all? can you prove anything the bible says as true? <--that question is not much different from the one you just posted to Cimber...............and even if he does present proof...are you all of a sudden going to say --> ohhh ok then ????

how can you come out with this statement, when you scroll back a page and you AGREED with me that...just because it is said to be a theory, does not mean its not true....

Ok -- I'll play the game by deleting the "superfluous" phrasings.

So, it all boils down to "assumptions" of observable facts; not proof of the assumption, right?
Karlis

no it does not.
It requires a lot of facts put together.

I see that you have great faith in science and as a consequence; faith in evolution.
Karlis

Gee you sure did delete

here is the FULL version of theory

noun, plural -ries. 1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3. Mathematics. a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
4. the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.
5. a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
6. contemplation or speculation.
7. guess or conjecture.


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[Origin: 1590–1600; < LL theōria < Gk theōría a viewing, contemplating, equiv. to theōr(eǐn) to view + -ia -y3]


—Synonyms 1. Theory, hypothesis are used in non-technical contexts to mean an untested idea or opinion. A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity. A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis.

Didnt sir Issac Newton come up with a THEORY..what was it called again?? ohh yes..GRAVITY <--so you see Karlis..its not just a theory..its fact

Science does not require faith. You do not have to have in something that exists.

So, in that case -- evolution deals with theories, right?
Also -- does the theory of evolution prove evolution of sentient consciousness?
Karlis

I am flagerbusted ... really I am.
Was that a scientist talking, or a lawyer talking?
Karlis

That is how science works and both science and law are extremely stringent in terms of terminology and evidence. Though science is possibly more stringent than law.

ha ha you got that right Matt

No I layed out just ONE theory that was proved to be fact ..from Sir Issac Newtown..

here's another (karlis if you like you too can observe lol) ..

What were those wild hair brained theories of Copernicus that earth was NOT the centre of the universe...and low and behold..he was RIGHT..his theory was proven to be.......= FACT..

As I understood it -- all the given definitions were theories.
Karlis

and I was just pointing out that either didn't read or understand the definition.

Hi again B's Mom,

I really will appreciate it if you would give us just one example of *real evolution* -- as opposed to growth, or change -- that you can see in front of you.

Regards,
Karlis

Oh did you not see the numerous papers that have been listed. Again more wilful ignorance or an inability to read.

So if we all thought like you on theory being nothing but assumptions and thats like....it...........so then..Jesus of the bible is nothing more than just a theory..an assumption doesnt mean anything, after all you cant prove it..so it HAS to be a theory..so then you are saying Jesus stories and all written is just not true...<--no evidence to back it all up..so then it must not be true..??? <--just asking

Wow! Are you really that frightened?

As matt has just tolld you Karlis..it wont matter look see, how many papers are handed to you as evidence..it wouldnt matter look see if I personally knocked on your front door and dropped all evidence of evolution on your door step..you will STILL deny it all..AND GO ON ABOUT THEORY <---KARLIS THATS NOT ME TRYING TO BE FUNNY..ITS WHAT i Have come to see on these sites in these kind of arguements

sorry for the caps ..i hit the key by mistake and im too lazy to delete lol

I have fatih that my car will start. I have faith that I will not die in my sleep. I have faith that my children will graduate high school, go on to college, and be resposible adults one day. I do not have faith in evolution because it requires no faith. I can observe it.

Hi B's Mom -- have you not noticed that numerous times previously I have written that my belief is based on faith in God?

On the other hand, Cimber et al *seem to claim* (without actually saying so) that sentient life evolved from inanimate matter. Or am I wrong on that?

And by the way -- Cimber and other scientists here, have only postulated theories -- not proof -- for evolution of life.

Cheers,
Karlis

LOL! Tell me Karlis, you are not very good with puzzles, am I right?

I personally wouldnt say he is frightened...just confused as to whats going on ...he is trying to get ot grips with it ....at the same time he may fear if he does say - yes I fully understand and see what you mean...it might make him look the less christian..its all about saving face <--------------thats just my view and its very understandable not just from Karlis but from anyone in the same boat
PLZ note I said he MAY fear...not saying he DOES fear I am just guessing lol

Liar. You have either just ignored them or you are not intelligent enough to understand.

I still say I would like to test the germ theory of disease on Karlis, but, I think he knows more than he is letting on because he is not biting.

A theory can well be true, agreed.

However, it is quite another thing to baldly claim that *a specific theory* -- such as a theory that sentient life evolved from inanimate matter -- is a fact.

Hope this helps you to see my point of view,
Karlis

But surely you must agree that all those papers put forward *theories* -- not proof?

On the other hand -- if they claim that theories *are* proof, then I have no answer to that.
Karlis

It is a collection of facts. Evolution is a fact and speciation is a fact and the theory of evolution is based on this combined with other facts like genetics and palaeontology. It is accepted scientifically because it beyond all reasonable doubt.

Since evolution only deals with life that is already here and not how life came to be here, you are not right that anyone here has claimed this to be true. Things do not evolve from inanimate matter, because inanimate matter does not reproduce. Although, viruses are not alive, persay, and they do evolve, but, one would not say they are inanimate since they are not.

Karlis....I respect your faith...<--your own faith in God is not up for question ...a person can hold faith in God and still see facts infront of them..I am proof of that

I am not afraid to say I am wrong.. am not afraid of loosing face...what makes people respect me is how honest and willing to listen..I am observant in most cases....

Darwin for example...was religious..and even when he came up with the theory of evolution..Darwin STILL reminded to have faith in GOD <--this Karlis is fact....he later lost his faith after his 3rd child died but that had nothing to do with his discoveries

So from reading up on this mans life..I saw that he was not out to disprove God (and I know you didnt claim he was)...I saw he like many other great scientists has stumbled on to facts...it couldnt be helped....

So you see, you can have faith in God...but when you ignore facts that are starring you in the face...thats a different ball game...........this is NOT about GOD...its about something that can be proved to be real
The person that wrote that God created us begun with adam and eve <--for all you know, that too was just a theory..one that made sense to the person that was trying to imagine how on earth did we get here...it made sense to think there was a creator..but the creator had to start off with one or two...<--again just a theory...and you have no problem believing it WITHOUT actual evidence!!!..........have you ever thought of exploring it all yourself?? just a thought

Im sorry but they have present you with so much..you choose to deny and ignore..the burden of proof is no longer their problem..sorry but its not

No they show: PHYSICAL PROOF OF EVOLUTION. THEY SHOW REPRODUCTIVE ISOLATION LEADING TO THE CREATION OF A NEW SPECIES, THEY SHOW OBSERVED EVOLUTION WITH IN A SPECIES.
If want to know about a scientific f*****g theory see above. It is form from a collection of facts and has been shown to be beyond reasonable doubt.

Luk 18:8 ... Yet when the Son of Man comes, shall He find faith on the earth?

Frightened of what, may I ask? Surely I am not frightened by theories.
Karlis

I still say why would whales and dolphins need opposible thumbs if their fins were always used for swimming.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/1314008

Not to worry, B's Mom -- I did not really expect you to provide any tangible evidence of proof ... and you provided none, as expected.

Anyway, thanks for your reply,
Karlis

Frightened of being wrong.

Karlis...something tells me you DO in fact fully understand evolution...and you do understand what we are saying to you...ohh I have a strong feeling you sure do....

you are not dumb...far from it...but one thing stands in your way..thats fear of loosing face...you dont wish to admit what you understand is real because it may make your christian faith look a tad pointless....so tell me...how pointless wuld your faith be if you said...well evolution does seem to have strong facts..I guess the person that wrote about creation got their theory wrong?? <--would that damage you?? just asking
thats just my guess...only because you seem to stress more so on a single word - THEORY...you seem to repeat the same thing and ignore all that makes sense!!!

hmmmm I have a feeling you do understand all....you just wont say you do

Frightened of admitting your wrong.

Karlis jokes aside..Cimber and matt presented proof...you denied it all..so what difference would it make if I did the same??

you know more than you are letting on..for this is not like the usual WWF arguement, where it was one pointless thing after another...no....you do know something..you just fear saying so..<--well you give me that impression, so forgive me for being a tad observant

Frightened your faith is not strong enough to withstand reality. I could go on, but, I am sure you know more what you are frightened of than me.

Yea but look at the amount of men that claimed to be the son..even around the same times as Jesus...all said to be in the footnotes of your bible...so many preformed miricales...one of which was stonned to the ground after he showed Peter how he too had powers and he levatated himself off the ground and Peter and his followers threw rocks at him..

so how do we know what is the REAL truth> do we go on a theory given by someone in the bible??

Karlis does know a lot more than he is letting on..and he is not the only christian that uses this board that doesnt know..I can list a few more christians that DO in fact fully understand evolution..and I have a huntch they believe in it, but fear saying do..for there are too many here waiting to judge them if they ever did <--that is a crying shame

Hi again, B's Mom,

Have you read that very often what one writes about others, often reflects their own self?

So, without being personal, could the following, re-phrased post of yours, be an unconscious reflection of your own inner self?

"I [B's Mom] wouldn't say I am frightened ... just confused as to whats going on ... I am trying to get to grips with it ... at the same time I may fear if I say say - yes I fully understand and see ... it might make me look the less godly ... its all about saving face -- thats just my view and its very understandable not just from my point of view, but from anyone in the same boat
PLZ note I said that I MAY fear...not saying I DO fear; I am just guessing lol"

You do look in a mirror now and again do you not, B's Mom?
Karlis

No -- I am not a liar, Mattshark; perhaps mistaken, and perhaps not intelligent enough ... but not a liar.

Anyway, not to worry -- I am not taking this as a personal affront.
Karlis