I'm not mad at all. Amused yes.. Depending where you live in Ga it can be bad yes I grew up there too It's changed alot I'm sure. The last place I lived in Ga was Valdosta armpit of the universe. I have relatives in Greeneville,Tn wasn't even close to being as bad. Perhaps the reason is they let thier religion speak for them instead of placing Ads every where. About the staring you could of made yourself more clear on how long you looked at her. No?I'm not exaggerating anything like I said before you do not live here. I hate billboards of all types they are ugly & they do nothing. I hate any large bulidings that take up space where animals used to life. Same can be said for place where they have cut down thousands of trees to clear off the land to bulid more homes in a already over populated earth. I dislike it here for more then just the lack of religous intolerance. Weather sucks, no change of season. BUGS! NATS! that are big enough it seems to carry you off. Can't camp out because these things will make it un-bearable. NO really place here to ride my bike. No mountains the lakes here are dirty. The leaves do not change color I could go on about the weather but I'll stop. The edcuation system here is some of the worst in the U.S. I'm sure you know what I mean about that living in Ga. I went to H.S in Mableton, Ga.

Like I said I do not need to use religion as reason for hating it here I have TONS of other reasons as you can see.


MMW, I never said I was feeling persecuted I said it's a bit much when you can stand in one spot & look & see thatmost of the billboards along the interstate are religious in nature. Perhaps people here should like actions & not billboards speak for them.

Sure, sometimes people become defensive. . .but when you deal with people saying nasty things all the time, one tends to grow a bit defensive. I went through that stage. . .but now I don't really care too much what anyone says. I just smile and go on. You have to think of it from a different point of view. . .the muslim woman. . .I'm sure she deals with alot of name calling and people looking down on her. I'm sure it was nothing against you personally, but only a mutitude of past experiences with people treating her badly. You sort of become conditioned to react defensively.



The "Smile" billboard doesn't have anything to do with religion. . .it was just sort of a creepy statement.

Most Pagans in general don't really care what others believe. . .but constant harrassment tends to make some of us testy. I've never told anyone what to believe, or looked down on any one of any religion. . .I look down on people that don't accept other peoples way of life as their own. . .it doesn't really have much to do with their religion. However, I do deal with overbearing Christians every day. Its tiresome, but, like I said before, I generally just smile and walk off. I don't feel like I'm being persecuted or anything. . .I just feel like people need to understand to live and let live and let others believe what they will.

I don't mind people expressing their religion. . .but when they get angry at others for doing the same thing, that's when things get irritating. If some of us were to put up a billboard in the middle of the bible belt that said "The Goddess Loves you", there's a good probability that it would be met with hostility. I don't think most of us would because, like norwood said, they're ugly and they interfere (especially when they are in the country) with the natural landscape. Its just like the "Happy Holidays" vs. "Merry Christmas" thing. I don't mind either. I don't understand why some get so upset over stores having signs that read "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". There was a big debate about this locally around the holidays. It's all about tolerance, and some people simply don't have it.

I'm referring to their dress and moral standards and such.


Tarheelsfan

"accused of looking down on..." could have meant a glance. You merely perceived it as staring, norwood. Which falls into exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's all in the perception.

Actually, I can't say anything derogatory about the education back in the day. (I graduated in '80) I went to one of the best public schools in Georgia. Tennessee public schools have gone down hill in the last 20 or so years and people are moving to Geogia to send their kids to public school there right over the state line where there is lots of competition. The private schools in Chattanooga are some of the best in the nation. Many very, very prominant people have come from them.

As for the weather and bugs, have you been to the Carribean or Hawaii? You'd probably hate them, too. And, they are very especially more religious per capita than the south. By the way, we are going camping again next weekend.

I'm completely surrounded by Christian schools and live in a neighborhood full of the teachers and now their grown children are buying house here. It's never been anything but a delight to have them as neighbors.

I'm heavily involved in my community and we set up a land trust that buys lots or acres that can never be built on or cleared. It is strictly for preservation reasons.

As you can see, our descriptions and outlooks are very different. That's why I get so offended when people perpetuate stereotype of the backward, ignorant, southern redneck. I've traveled extensively and I don't see any difference in the percentage of stupid, pushy, redneck type people in the south than I do anywhere else.

Sweetsalem, I have to go, but I have to ask...why do people constantly harrass you and say nasty things to you? That's the part I don't understand, because as an athiest it doesn't happen to me. I had more people harrass me about smoking before I quit. How do people know what religion you are or aren't unless you are shoving it in THEIR face like you accuse them of doing to you? If In don't like something someone does I certainly don't go around doing the same thing to 'see how they like'.

I guess it depends where in the south your talking about I've met some people that I hope I'll know all my life that are here in the south. Then those are those who well... lets just say that the world would be MUCH better off without. Your right these people are everywhere, however sadly there are alot of truth in stereotypes & thats why people do not like them. I wasn't trying to typecast anyone here in the south, Scarlet even admit that moving from N.C to Alabama was a huge change. My wifes cousins & uncles would fit right at home on CMT's show about rednecks & the stupid things they do she freely admits it. Last Christmas they were Bogging on one of her cousins farm I wish I would of had a videocamera I would of sended to CMT!

My wife was totally embrassed I just thought it was funny. I like your idea of sitting up landtrust could you please PM on how that works?

As far as the Christians go here I'm not sure what to tell you at least once a week I run into someone who you would call a bible thumper. My wifes deals with these people on Halloween & on Valantines Days when they place the books out on the raceway for people to see & buy. Perhaps if people (not just here in the south) would stop living up to these sterotypes people would stop putting them all toghether.

As fas as schools go I'm sure the private schools are great but I've done my reaseach on public schools & over all they are still ranked last in the U.S as far as the south goes. I blame the no child left behind act for some of that!

Well, one case in point would be when I was buying that book. I didn't say anything. The woman saw what I was buying and made a comment. It usually happens when I go and buy my books. I have a pentacle necklace that I wear as well. . .which, is not only for my religion , but because of the sentimental value it has (it belonged to a friend of mine that passed away). People see it and make comments. Not to mention my boyfriends entire family just loves to play the "satanist" card with me. I have pagan themed books in my house. Anyone that comes in sees them, including his family, people he works with, and my friends.

And, I've already stated, most people I've met down here ask almost immediately what church I go to. I would much rather not answer, but most people keep pushing until I do. You shouldn't assume just because people say things to me that I start it. I'm not that type of person. I thought that was something that most people could gather from my posts but apparently not. . . I'm too obliviously happy to start arguments.

Edit: And, since you are an atheist, I have to add. . .I'm sure if Atheist had a symbol that represented their beliefs and it was easily recognized as such, you would probably have to deal with the same things. At least where I live. Racism is also a problem around here. People who are different in general tend to have a hard time.

And also. . .I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining. I'm not. I could really care less how many times a day someone tries to preach to me or something. I always laugh it off. But I am acknowledging that it happens. I've lived all over the south and it happens worse in some places. . .usually the smaller cities and towns. . .where people have been raised in the church and don't really know any thing else. I don't blame them or get angry. If they truly want to know what my religion is about, then I tell them nicely, if not, then I just walk away.

Well yes there are some people with a lot of money, but in general the area is economically depressed and the average wage is relatively low (especially when you discount the top ten earners). I know about the education in the area, it is sad, but like the UK the US education systems need a hell of a lot more money invested in it.

Once I was very focused on ethnic differences. I could not stand the other group, I felt they were always out to get me, my bitterness was strong and my view of the world was tinged by this. Not saying that this experience is paralleled by those who cannot stand Christianity but for some I am sure it is. Now I can live fine with all people and it is just a matter of outlook. I can compare myself then and now and see the difference.

As far as wearing a pentacle so others can see. I do not even let my cross charm show but that is at my discretion. Do I have a right to wear it as others do a pentacle in America. Certainly. But we should not be naive but we should be aware of how others might react. If one wishes to change things and wear it as being one of the first so others can get used to it they should also combine that with kindness and telling anyone who would listen the virtues of their belief system and slowly change public perceptions and opinions. Really if one wants to be a martyr or an agent of change they should not complain and take the good and the bad knowing they are choosing to stick out like a sore thumb. The first black woman who sat in front of the bus knew what she was getting into and was willing to go through with it. I bet you in her heart she did not have hate for whites but love for her own.

I have to agree with others who state it is a matter of outlook and views that affect our thinking. Sure we can become jaded if always set back but really persecution in America is nothing like in other parts of the world where violence, the burning of churches, the physical attack on people viewed as witches, and all kinds of other hatred and discrimination occur. Bottom line I believe is if we do not go looking for trouble we will not find it and if we do not focus on negativity we would not find it in every corner just as some see demons in every shadow and behind every bad circumstance. Cheer up mates Jesus loves you and so does the goddess.

It sounds to me like you are a bit confused with what I was saying. I was simply showing that with signs like that, it becomes apparent of the general culture and how tough it must be for someone who no longer wishes to be the "norm." I could care less what they believe.

But no matter how you twist it, putting up religious billboards every hundred feet IS pushing beliefs.

Exactly! So when they are completely sheltered from other belief systems many don't know how to talk to these people or have any basic understanding except that is 'evil' and that they should preach. They are confused that someone actually isn't Christian. But this is how many are taught. Believe what you want, but leave others alone. If they have questions they will come to you. Preaching is generally uncomfortable for the preachee.

As far as wearing a pentacle so others can see. I do not even let my cross charm show but that is at my discretion. Do I have a right to wear it as others do a pentacle in America. Certainly. But we should not be naive but we should be aware of how others might react. If one wishes to change things and wear it as being one of the first so others can get used to it they should also combine that with kindness and telling anyone who would listen the virtues of their belief system and slowly change public perceptions and opinions. Really if one wants to be a martyr or an agent of change they should not complain and take the good and the bad knowing they are choosing to stick out like a sore thumb. The first black woman who sat in front of the bus knew what she was getting into and was willing to go through with it. I bet you in her heart she did not have hate for whites but love for her own.
[/quote Clovis



Your right it should not matter what your necklace looks like but sadly it still does. No one here is trying to play the martyr here but you should be able to walk down the stree wearing what ever you want or no matter where you live. I myself sence I started studing Druidism wear a Green Man necklace every once in a while I wear my Pentgram necklace but not so much anymore. Like I said before these people were raised to believe in the Christian God & while I have problem with thier faith. Just because people have a faith that is not what people consider the norm is no reason to look down on others nor treat them differently.

All small groups feel persecuted to one extent or another. I'm a Quaker; there are maybe 30 of us in a city of 40,000. We always feel like the odd-man-out. But, we have a good relationship with the local Methodists, so things work out. There's a cartoon showing a school of fish, all going the same way, except for one that is going the exact opposite direction. The caption reads: "Can you guess which one is the Quaker fish?" An ability to laugh at yourself and what makes you different can really help.

I'm also a member of a pipe band. There are six of us. We solve the problem of being different by exagerating the difference. Not too many other bands wear kilts. You can't worry about being different if you're wearing a kilt. And the pipe just advertises the difference.

Put the differences to work for you; they can be an advantage.

Re billboards: trashing up the landscape in the name of God is still trashing up the landscape. This is not good stewardship of the earth. Crushing the earth is not the same as subduing it.
Doug

Really? You feel like the odd man out as a Quaker? LOL. Best I get (and I think it's a riot) is "What? You're a Quaker? But... but, you have a computer, and electricity!" or my personal favorite "You mean, like Oatmeal?!"

Yes, the billboards junk up the landscape. I live in the Seattle Metro area, most all cities in this area have banned billboards of all kinds. Although they're still legal in some county areas, but mostly, they just aren't used. We're proud of our scenery around here in this part of the country, and not junking it up is something most people are passionate about. Goll darned tree huggers, that's us! (part of it is Seattle's dislike of billboard millionaire king Barry Ackerly too, but that's a different story entirely)



I don't know what "looked down on" means. Not really. I never really give people a chance to look down on me. But, I've learned to be good at saying things like "In the interest of you and I being good neighbors, this topic is not up for discussion" Granted, I've never had to say that about my faith, no one around here cares, but I HAVE had to say things like that to diffuse people who want to tell me how to raise my kid.

I don't have an overwhelming need for people to accept me or my choices or understand me and my beliefs even. It's simply not needed or necessary. If people try to engage me in verbal combat over something like that, my tactic is to kindly diffuse and change the subject to something a bit more acceptable to both of us.

I think I've learned that people who don't agree with my choices aren't my enemy, and if I look hard enough, there are plenty of things we agree on, and the things we don't agree on are off-limits in the interest of being good neighbors and associates.

Ever notice on the oatmeal box: the man is wearing a ruffled shirt, not plain dress: he's not a Quaker!


I'm from Oklahoma: we're not very proud of our scenery, judging from the billboards along the major highways.

A friend of mine wears a pentacle. She's a Quaker, but she wears it anyway. She says she tries to live by the ideals it stands for. I think it's a nifty idea.

Tell your boyfriend's family that pagans don't believe in Satan: that's a Christian thing and you're wondering how it is that they know so much about Satan.

(BTW: which hocky team does Satan play for? No kidding! There's a pro hockey player named Satan; said he'd never play for the New Jersey Devils. See if you can work that into a reply.).

I have the same problem around here (Oklahoma), but when I tell somebody I'm a Quaker, I either get "Oh. Like on the cereal box?" or stunned silence: they don't know what to say next. I told one pushy guy I was a Reformed Druid and invited him to worship at the tree in my back yard. Never heard from him again.
Doug

I've often responded with "No, not like the cereal---like the Motor Oil" Then they're just confused. LOL. It's pretty comical actually.

More often, I get the "but you drive a car and you have electricity" response. Geeeze, I said Quaker, not Amish!! LOL. I should ask them if they'd like to meet my horse too. LOL.

People are so funny. I also go to a Mennonite church... If I tell people Mennonite, I get "meno-who?" Or funnier, "What? Men at night??" It's really pretty much high comedy.

For the most part, it doesn't bug me at all. *shrug*

I recently attended a lecture by a Mennonite pastor, and needless to say I was quite moved by the man. I had never encountered a Mennonite before then, and he gave me a pretty good first impression with regards to Mennonites. I liked him, his ontology was fascinating as was his outlook on "prosperity theology" and the necessity of ecumenical works. Good stuff.