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Owlscrying
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As she glides through the water, Winter the dolphin appears to be completely normal. But she is the world's first bionic sea creature after being fitted with an artificial tail.

Only closer inspection reveals the dolphin's rear end is entirely prosthetic.

Winter, an Atlantic Bottlenose Dolphin, lost her own tail after being caught in a harsh crab trap.

She was found at just two-months old in 2006, floating in distress off the coast of Florida.

Rescuers rushed her to the Clearwater Marine Aquarium, in Clearwater, Florida, where they battled to save her life. David Yates, the director, said: "For the first few days, we really didn't think she'd live at all.

Winter survived, but she lost her tail and was left with just a stump. "She had to learn how to swim without a tail, which no dolphin has ever done in captivity," said Mr Yates.

Winter tried to master the art – but couldn't swish up and down like a normal dolphin, and could only waggle from side to side.

Vets were worried this unusual swimming might alter the long-term health of her spine. So, they decided to make an artificial tail for Winter.

Kevin Carroll, one of the world's leading prosthetists, offered his services. Besides his work with people, he has designed prosthetics for dogs, an ostrich, and even a duck.

He explained: "With a person, when we fit a socket on them, we have one long, solid bone. "We don't have to have the socket moving in every direction. "With a dolphin, it needs to move along with her full spine."

Casts were used to monitor Winter's growth and body shape and to provide the mould for her new tail.

Finally, in August last year, Winter was fitted with her new silicone and plastic tail, which is 2 1/2 feet long. Now she is swimming and splashing about in normal dolphin-style.

"Winter's spirit was very positive and she had a never-say-die attitude," said Mr Yates. "She adapted very quickly."
go
grither
Poor dolphin lost her tail. Well at least she is fine now. That's good that she has a tail now.
Asphodel
The way they photographed Winter almost makes her seem proud, and maybe she is. Its amazing the effort humans will put forth in order save the life of an animal.

goalienan
It's always heartwarming to read a story like this...The doctor's should be commended for giving Winter a new lease on life...I also read where an eagle, who had half his beak snapped off is receiving a bionic one...Amazing... thumbsup.gif
Mattshark
It is very nice that they did this, but why so much with Atlantic bottlenose which is very common and none for genuinely rare species. To me this is a waste of time and money that could of gone to helping animals that rarely need it.
goalienan
QUOTE (Mattshark @ May 6 2008, 07:07 AM) *
It is very nice that they did this, but why so much with Atlantic bottlenose which is very common and none for genuinely rare species. To me this is a waste of time and money that could of gone to helping animals that rarely need it.


Hi Matt, I'm saying this with all sincerety, because of the fact that you know so much about this subject..But do you think that it would have been better to let Winter die when they found him, or to let him continue to swim with just a stump...I understand it's not a rare species but the fact remains that he needed help...I've read many of your posts in this forum and asking because you know alot more than I do...thanks original.gif
Mattshark
QUOTE (goalienan @ May 6 2008, 11:15 AM) *
Hi Matt, I'm saying this with all sincerety, because of the fact that you know so much about this subject..But do you think that it would have been better to let Winter die when they found him, or to let him continue to swim with just a stump...I understand it's not a rare species but the fact remains that he needed help...I've read many of your posts in this forum and asking because you know alot more than I do...thanks original.gif

Did he need anymore help than species that are on the edge of extinction? It is not like Winter can be released and most of his life will be spent bobbing up an down (I have seen Winter when Mote where looking after him while Clearwater were doing work on there facility) and it is a rather sad site. People just get soppy just because it is a dolphin imo. I think euthanising him would have been a better choice and I think Clearwater decided to keep him alive for the purpose of display rather than anything else.
Cetacea
QUOTE (goalienan @ May 6 2008, 12:15 PM) *
Hi Matt, I'm saying this with all sincerety, because of the fact that you know so much about this subject..But do you think that it would have been better to let Winter die when they found him, or to let him continue to swim with just a stump...I understand it's not a rare species but the fact remains that he needed help...I've read many of your posts in this forum and asking because you know alot more than I do...thanks original.gif


I personally think they should have euthanised her (she is female) when it was clear she was going to lose her flukes. I have personally seen her as she was at Mote for a while while her tank got renovated and it is just sad, for one thing, the bionic tail is on only for very short periods of times, either because she does not tolerate it or it is not fitted well, I am not exactly sure about the reasons. I have talked to a number of scientists studying wild bottlenoses and most of them agree that she should have been put down when she lost her flukes . When she was initially rescued, she still had them, she was badly entangled in a crab pot but it soon became clear she would lose them as the tissue became necrotic, at this point as far as I know Clearwater actually had to actively fight to keep her as the authorities (NMFS if I am not mistaken) in charge of stranded marine mammals agreed and thought she should be put down.
It can cost up to $200 000 just to care for a stranded animal for several months, that is not taking into account the cost of the bionic tail. Furthermore, as far as I am aware, Winter is still growing, which means she will have to be refitted which will cost more money again. That is a lot of money and resources being poured into an animal that stands no chance of ever being released into the wild again. Sure, Clearwater now has a new moneyspinner, their site starts off with an intro featuring her, wherever you look on the website, she is there, but is it really doing the dolphin any favours keeping her without a tail in a small tank for the rest of her life so that tourists can come and get a fuzzy feeling of well being because she was kept alive against the odds? In my opinion that money would be better invested in research.
There is a lot of controversy about this subject and a recent report summarises these problems nicely in my opinion:
Stranded Marine Mammals stir tough decisions
This article includes an interesting diagram:
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If you go by these guidelines, I think the decision should have been fairly clear...
goalienan
Matt and Cetacea, thank you both for your replies...I'm of course looking at it from a layman's point of view, and of course didn't realize that there is so much more involved...I appreciate it...... original.gif
SquiggleVonNoodle
QUOTE (Mattshark @ May 6 2008, 12:33 PM) *
Did he need anymore help than species that are on the edge of extinction? It is not like Winter can be released and most of his life will be spent bobbing up an down (I have seen Winter when Mote where looking after him while Clearwater were doing work on there facility) and it is a rather sad site. People just get soppy just because it is a dolphin imo. I think euthanising him would have been a better choice and I think Clearwater decided to keep him alive for the purpose of display rather than anything else.



But would it have been ok if it was a rarer species, useful for a breeding programme? I see what you mean but surely if you had a rare and very ill dolphin this experiment may make it much easier to create it a new tail.
Mattshark
QUOTE (SquiggleVonNoodle @ May 8 2008, 01:05 PM) *
But would it have been ok if it was a rarer species, useful for a breeding programme? I see what you mean but surely if you had a rare and very ill dolphin this experiment may make it much easier to create it a new tail.

No, they only did so they could have a display animal. It is was opposed by other marine mammal hospitals as they saw it as a ploy by Clearwater to help bring in more profit.
No where that keeps dolphins has any interest in captive breeding for wild release.
crtbud
Very interesting...

What better marketing ploy? Any little girl who hears about this dolphin will instantly be set on convincing her parents to take her to see it.

$$$
Mattshark
QUOTE (crtbud @ May 8 2008, 03:09 PM) *
Very interesting...

What better marketing ploy? Any little girl who hears about this dolphin will instantly be set on convincing her parents to take her to see it.

$$$

Yes but it cruel to the animal and was uniformly criticised by the not for profit institutes that do genuine rehabilitation work.
crtbud
QUOTE (Mattshark @ May 8 2008, 10:19 AM) *
Yes but it cruel to the animal and was uniformly criticised by the not for profit institutes that do genuine rehabilitation work.

Yeah, sounds pretty grimey to me.
Mattshark
QUOTE (crtbud @ May 8 2008, 03:23 PM) *
Yeah, sounds pretty grimey to me.

The whole dolphin captivity market is pretty grimey.
Siara
I think with all the horrible sh** that's going on in the world a display of compassion is a good thing. Is it a calculated money-maker? Yup. So what?

This episode may not be a giant breakthrough for science but it has some value. Mattshark's post reminds me of the people who told me to put my dog down rather than have a tumor removed, There were so many dogs in the world, why bother?
Mattshark
QUOTE (Siara @ May 8 2008, 07:11 PM) *
I think with all the horrible sh** that's going on in the world a display of compassion is a good thing. Is it a calculated money-maker? Yup. So what?

This episode may not be a giant breakthrough for science but it has some value. Mattshark's post reminds me of the people who told me to put my dog down rather than have a tumor removed, There were so many dogs in the world, why bother?

It is not compassion, if they cared they would not be keeping it captivity (something that causes huge reductions in the average life span of a dolphin). If it was for compassion they would have not received the criticism they did. It is not the same at all.
Jennie 1
I,for one, think this is pretty cool!
Thanks for posting it!
Yeah, yeah, I know the whole "put it out of it's misery" thing, but I couldn't have killed it.
Even knowing all of the "money would be spent better elsewhere" arguments, I still couldn't have killed even this one.
I'm sure that makes me a horrible, weak person but I don't care.
I think it is wonderful that this dolphin got a new tail and is able to use it.
Cetacea
QUOTE (SquiggleVonNoodle @ May 8 2008, 12:05 PM) *
But would it have been ok if it was a rarer species, useful for a breeding programme? I see what you mean but surely if you had a rare and very ill dolphin this experiment may make it much easier to create it a new tail.


The question is, is the tail actually useful and improving her quality of life?If you look at the stranding diagram, it actually includes that case, if the individual cannot be released however is rare and of value for research or breeding program, more effort should be put in to save it. However whether or not it could actually be integrated in a breeding program is another question, as a lot of rare dolphin species are actually not kept in captivity- which defies the point a lot of places (like SeaWorld) bring forward to defend what they are doing, breeding for conservation is only really of use if it is an endangered species and they plan on releasing it but that is a different story.
It could still provide useful information about genetics and behaviour that could be of help for the survival of the species, although behaviour often changes in captivity.

QUOTE (Siara @ May 8 2008, 07:11 PM) *
I think with all the horrible sh** that's going on in the world a display of compassion is a good thing. Is it a calculated money-maker? Yup. So what?

This episode may not be a giant breakthrough for science but it has some value. Mattshark's post reminds me of the people who told me to put my dog down rather than have a tumor removed, There were so many dogs in the world, why bother?


As Matt said, it is questionable whether it is compassionate seeing the effect that captivity has on wild caught dolphins, especially on a crippled one as Winter, as I said before, the tail is not on for most of the time meaning she is severely handicapped in her ability to swim, possibly in pain, and either option is probably not exactly comfortable as I remember hearing them talk about her resisting the tail.
A domestic privately owned animal is a very different story. As is a tumour in most of the cases, a lot of animals recover very well from that sort of surgery and can enjoy the same quality of life that they had before, or at least close to it, in an environment that they know and are comfortable in with people they love. I have had a very sick dog myself and we invested a lot of love, time and (from a logistic view) unreasonable amounts of money in her and obviously did not regret it. A dolphin despite all the sentimental connotations brought up by Flipper however is not a domestic animal and you are taking it out of it's natural environment, which in itself is very stressful. Furthermore, if it is your pet's health that is at stake, it is a personal choice to invest large amounts of money in it, marine mammal hospitals however depend strongly on donations. Spending an extortionate amount of money on one animal means that they may not have the funds to care for another, one that may have a better chance of survival and release, which then, if there is no other place that can take it in, must then be put down instead. Is that any better?


QUOTE (Jennie 1 @ May 9 2008, 06:43 AM) *
I think it is wonderful that this dolphin got a new tail and is able to use it.



As I said, whether she is actually using it is questionable, one or two months ago they were saying she only has it on for very short periods and apparently she was occasionally even resisting having it put on. For one thing she was at Mote for several weeks and they did not even bother to bring it at all. It's not a new story either, they have been doing it for a while, see this article from 2006, and if she is still not wearing it continuously, it is clearly not working very well.
Also a noteworthy quote from that article:
Veterinarians are unsure if a prosthesis will be beneficial or harmful in the long term
Cryptoman
That's real cool. Imagine what they could do with this new technology: they can make human body parts! lol, just kidding. That is really cool though.
Alex01
QUOTE (Mattshark @ May 6 2008, 01:07 PM) *
It is very nice that they did this, but why so much with Atlantic bottlenose which is very common and none for genuinely rare species. To me this is a waste of time and money that could of gone to helping animals that rarely need it.


Excuse me Matt, I understand you are very proffesional on this subject, but as human as we are we cannot leave the dolphin to die in such torture, NO animal deserves that torture, I understand your compassion for other species but dear sir, we can't leave this dolphin in this state because other species are in danger. We are currently trying to save all species from a certain doom, but we can't leave not even one of them behind.

The dolphin is in captivity yes, but that would be another topic because, fact is that this dolphin was suffering from a much worse condition. I remind you that many animals are saved from a certain doom daily due to the fact that they are in captivity, this is not an excuse but a sincere fact.

It would be totally inhuman to leave a specie to suffer just for the sake of saving the others, we must act on this problem wisely, not brutaly.
Cetacea
QUOTE (Alex01 @ May 10 2008, 06:26 PM) *
Excuse me Matt, I understand you are very proffesional on this subject, but as human as we are we cannot leave the dolphin to die in such torture, NO animal deserves that torture, I understand your compassion for other species but dear sir, we can't leave this dolphin in this state because other species are in danger.


Which is why she should be put down, as I explained in detail in the previous posts. That wonderful bionic tail they keep talking about, it's not on for most of the time, not only is she in captivity but she is most likely also damaging her spine with the way she is swimming and is in pain because of that.

QUOTE (Alex01 @ May 10 2008, 06:26 PM) *
We are currently trying to save all species from a certain doom, but we can't leave not even one of them behind.


As I pointed out before, what about the other dolphins that may be compromised by the decision to be alive? Keeping Winter alive has not only eaten a large hole into their pocket, it has also reduced their capacity for taking in other animals, animals that may have a bigger chance of survival and release if they could be brought in to be rehabilitated. What happens if nowhere else can take them? They get put down. Marine Mammal Rescue Centres do not have unlimited capacity or funds, as crude as it may sound they can simply not afford to save every single one. I strongly recommend you read the article I posted further back in the thread; Stranded Marine Mammals stir tough decisions.


QUOTE (Alex01 @ May 10 2008, 06:26 PM) *
The dolphin is in captivity yes, but that would be another topic because, fact is that this dolphin was suffering from a much worse condition.

Which she is still suffering from if I may remind you, she is just suffering from it in a foreign and strange environment that has massively reduced the lifespan of many cetaceans.

QUOTE (Alex01 @ May 10 2008, 06:26 PM) *
I remind you that many animals are saved from a certain doom daily due to the fact that they are in captivity, this is not an excuse but a sincere fact.


No, that is not a fact, at the best it is a twisted fact propagated by especially aquariums to justify themselves. It might be true in the case of endangered species, yes, in most cases they are being protected from an environment that has become hostile to them because of what we have done to it, however this protection is only ever of any use for conservation if there is intention to improve the situation in the wild and release them. Justifying the keeping of orcas and bottlenose dolphins by saying that they are protected from daily doom is no better than saying we should bring all zebras into captivity so they don't get eaten by lions, it is not doom, it is nature, in the case of orcas it is just bull as they do not even have natural predators.
To be fair, yes, Winter was injured by a human made device, so we had a responsibility to try and rescue her. It was however also our responsibility to accept that she could not truly be saved rather than artificially extend her life-and suffering.

QUOTE (Alex01 @ May 10 2008, 06:26 PM) *
It would be totally inhuman to leave a specie to suffer just for the sake of saving the others, we must act on this problem wisely, not brutaly.



It has nothing to do with brutality and everything to do with 'acting wisely'. Would it be any less brutal to put down an animal that could easily be released in a couple of weeks because there is no room or money to care for it because hopeless cases have taken up both room and funds?
Jennie 1
QUOTE (Cetacea @ May 9 2008, 02:58 AM) *
As I said, whether she is actually using it is questionable, one or two months ago they were saying she only has it on for very short periods and apparently she was occasionally even resisting having it put on. For one thing she was at Mote for several weeks and they did not even bother to bring it at all. It's not a new story either, they have been doing it for a while, see this article from 2006, and if she is still not wearing it continuously, it is clearly not working very well.
Also a noteworthy quote from that article:
Veterinarians are unsure if a prosthesis will be beneficial or harmful in the long term


Thank you for the link to that article! I see your point, but I still don't think she should be euthanized.
Personally, I can see why she would resist having it put on, if she's used to swimming without it.
ShaunZero
QUOTE (Mattshark @ May 6 2008, 06:07 AM) *
It is very nice that they did this, but why so much with Atlantic bottlenose which is very common and none for genuinely rare species. To me this is a waste of time and money that could of gone to helping animals that rarely need it.


I agree that they should be helping out other more rare species. But also, I don't think it'd be too kind to let the dolphin die, even if helping it would not result in something beneficial to the species. If we went by that logic and only save lives when it's beneficial to not only the one being saved, we'd be alot less obligated to save lives.
Cetacea
QUOTE (ShaunZero @ May 13 2008, 04:26 AM) *
But also, I don't think it'd be too kind to let the dolphin die, even if helping it would not result in something beneficial to the species. If we went by that logic and only save lives when it's beneficial to not only the one being saved, we'd be alot less obligated to save lives.


QUOTE (Jennie 1 @ May 12 2008, 07:03 PM) *
I see your point, but I still don't think she should be euthanized.



As I pointed out before, it is not only about the potential benefits gained by saving the dolphin, it is about the potential disadvantages this may cause for other animals, rare species or not; a lot of rescues deal with common animals but a lot of rescues are a lot simpler. For the most part Marine Mammal Hospitals have tight budgets at the best of times, with the amount of money invested in her they may not be able to take in the next animal in need that comes along- which may very well have better chances of recovering and being released- and they will need to put that down instead, is that any better? It is for this reason that Marine Mammal Hospitals have an obligation to make these sort of tough decisions. save one hopeless case or have space and money to save -and release- two or three releasable animals? By the guidelines set out by the NMFS the decision should be quite clear.
Jennie 1
While that all may be true, the people who have Winter at their facility seem to be more than happy to care for her, according to the link you provided, and maybe they are outside of the NMFS guidelines, who knows. They certainly don't seem to be bemoaning all of the animals they could have saved, if they'd just euthanised her. wink2.gif
Also in your link, it was said that the prosthetic tail would probably be paid for, by the manufacturers. Very cost effective, as far as I'm concerned. LOL!
Siara
QUOTE (Cetacea @ May 9 2008, 08:58 AM) *
As Matt said, it is questionable whether it is compassionate seeing the effect that captivity has on wild caught dolphins, especially on a crippled one as Winter, as I said before, the tail is not on for most of the time meaning she is severely handicapped in her ability to swim, possibly in pain, and either option is probably not exactly comfortable as I remember hearing them talk about her resisting the tail.


The ideal thing would be if they could determine whether Winter is in pain or not. If they are prolonging an animal's suffering to make a buck (or a quid... whatever) that's callous or maybe even sadistic or immoral. If she is having a weird but enjoyable life, that's not so bad.

I don't think "scientific advancement" has any relationship at all to this animal. She's a symbol of a social attitude (compassion, the love of and respect for nature, etc.). In my opinion, that attitude is a lot better than most social attitudes. The public needs symbols to help it move its philosophical beliefs into the real world. As long as Winter is having a decent life, it doesn't bother me that her life should function in this manner.

Dolphins are so intelligent it seems possible to me that Winter could live a good life that's wildly different than the life that nature intended and still have an OK life. Intelligence allows the individual to transcend nature.

The big question for me is-- is she in pain?
Cetacea
QUOTE (Siara @ May 14 2008, 05:03 AM) *
If she is having a weird but enjoyable life, that's not so bad.

Dolphins are so intelligent it seems possible to me that Winter could live a good life that's wildly different than the life that nature intended and still have an OK life. Intelligence allows the individual to transcend nature


There is a reason cetacean captivity is banned in several countries (and one state in the US) and is becoming more and more restricted and rarer in others. The problem is that they are 'intelligent', the more intelligent' an animal is, the harder it is to do them justice in captivity. The effects of captivity on social wide ranging predators as cetaceans is detrimental to their well being physically and mentally.

QUOTE (Siara @ May 14 2008, 05:03 AM) *
I don't think "scientific advancement" has any relationship at all to this animal. She's a symbol of a social attitude (compassion, the love of and respect for nature, etc.).


Taking science out of the equation and looking at animals individually then: symbol or not, how does that justify a situation in which they may have neither funds nor space to look after the next rescue animal which then may need to be put down, regardless of whether it may have better chances of survival and release back into the wild?
There is a reason there are guidelines to rescuing marine mammals and believe it or not, they were put in place to benefit these animals, if the NMFS thought she should be put down it is not because they were being cruel but because they thought it was the best thing to do for her and the 'greater good', ie. benefiting future, more feasible rescues with a higher chance of release.

QUOTE (Siara @ May 14 2008, 05:03 AM) *
The big question for me is-- is she in pain?


That is obviously a hard question to answer however, if she is not now, she will be if she continues swimming without the tail (which she is refusing to accept at the moment) as this form of locomotion is unnatural and will most likely result in serious spinal damage- especially because she is still growing.
Lost World
wow cool thanks
Cetacea
Sorry, I just realised I ignored one post completely by mistake, not on purpose....

QUOTE (Jennie 1 @ May 14 2008, 02:46 AM) *
While that all may be true, the people who have Winter at their facility seem to be more than happy to care for her, according to the link you provided, and maybe they are outside of the NMFS guidelines, who knows.


There is no 'who knows' element to it, they are. As I said they had to actively fight against the NMFS decision on it in that matter and as I said before there are good reasons why they make these sort of decisions.

QUOTE (Jennie 1 @ May 14 2008, 02:46 AM) *
They certainly don't seem to be bemoaning all of the animals they could have saved, if they'd just euthanised her. wink2.gif


That would be because they are getting a lot of publicity out of the poor, cute, disabled dolphin. Ignoring both NMFS guidelines which are specifically thought out and put in place to protect cetaceans in these situations as well as the opinion of many other respected scientists would suggest they are not looking at the bigger picture or long term consequences but at the immediate benefits.
You also did not really answer my question, would it be any better if a more releasable animal may have to be put down due to lack of funds or space that were put into a basically hopeless case instead?

QUOTE (Jennie 1 @ May 14 2008, 02:46 AM) *
Also in your link, it was said that the prosthetic tail would probably be paid for, by the manufacturers. Very cost effective, as far as I'm concerned. LOL!


Probably is the word here, plus it does not cover other veterinary or feeding costs, nor does it provide extra space for future rescues. Just veterinary care can cost in excess of $100 000 for a rehab dolphin, never mind a prostethic tail (again $100 000, and Winter will need new ones as she continues to grow) or even special needs that Winter may have. It also does not change the fact that there is less capacity for future rescues, not only due to space but staff time.
And apart from all that, Winter could still be in pain, referring again to the original article, some experts even believe the tail may be harmful, I repeat;
Veterinarians are unsure if a prosthesis will be beneficial or harmful in the long term
That is without taking the added stresses of captivity into account.
gigs
I was happy to see it has a 2nd chance at a " normal " life . To swim properly and not be put to death
because it was handicap. Now something is man made , if it happens again we have a prototype and
can see how well this dolphin reacts to its new tail . Did it just lay around with out it ?
Mattshark
QUOTE (gigs @ May 18 2008, 04:40 AM) *
I was happy to see it has a 2nd chance at a " normal " life . To swim properly and not be put to death
because it was handicap. Now something is man made , if it happens again we have a prototype and
can see how well this dolphin reacts to its new tail . Did it just lay around with out it ?

It threw the tail off and stayed away from it, it was not happy about it.
And being in captivity is not a normal life for a dolphin.
3rd rock resident alien
A dolphin tried to save a distressed fisherman last Monday after his boat sank in heavy weather, fellow fisherman Roberto Caratao told reporters in Cadiz City. Caratao saw an adult-sized dolphin pushing and trying to carry Joseph Cesduyro, a 34-year-old crewmember of the F/B Nicole Louise 2, and the dolphin were still breathing when they reached the shore on Burias Island. But both died a few minutes later and were buried on the island, Caratao said.

June 23, 2008 Monday Dolphin died while saving a human . link here
Mattshark
QUOTE (3rd rock resident alien @ Jun 28 2008, 11:53 AM) *
A dolphin tried to save a distressed fisherman last Monday after his boat sank in heavy weather, fellow fisherman Roberto Caratao told reporters in Cadiz City. Caratao saw an adult-sized dolphin pushing and trying to carry Joseph Cesduyro, a 34-year-old crewmember of the F/B Nicole Louise 2, and the dolphin were still breathing when they reached the shore on Burias Island. But both died a few minutes later and were buried on the island, Caratao said.

June 23, 2008 Monday Dolphin died while saving a human . link here

Shows the journo knows nowt about dolphin behaviour. Gone over this so many times in dolphin threads and no good zoologist would come to that conclusion since dolphins show the same instinct with many floating objects, including dead deer and mattresses.
(SG)Max
QUOTE (Asphodel @ May 6 2008, 05:56 PM) *
The way they photographed Winter almost makes her seem proud, and maybe she is. Its amazing the effort humans will put forth in order save the life of an animal.

But the reason why Winter's life was in danger was because of a crab trap, set by humans , so it is right that the humans should repair the damage their fellow humans did
Mattshark
QUOTE ((SG)Max @ Jun 30 2008, 03:58 PM) *
But the reason why Winter's life was in danger was because of a crab trap, set by humans , so it is right that the humans should repair the damage their fellow humans did

Not when they only do it for a publicity stunt. It does not help winter who refuses the tail.
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