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thunkerdrone
The official story of the Josef Fritzl case is not making any sense.
According to the press, he is said to have forced his daughter to dig out the cellar by hand:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...e#StartComments
Still other accounts mention him building the cellar to code, even applying for a building permit.
Pictures of the the 'dungeon' reveal that it was indeed built to code, and is beautifully paneled from floor to walls to ceiling.

linked-image

Then we are told that the daughter of this monster 'disappeared' at age 18, and no one, including her own mother, ever thought
of looking in the basement that was completed with a building permit. Oh, he built it in secret, which meant he somehow managed
to get floor tiles, paneling , plumbing fixtures , furniture, etc. etc. down there without his wife ever knowing, and no one hearing
the sawing, hammering , etc. etc. What a pile of b.s.
HE even expanded it a couple of times after his daughter went missing, but his pure and perfect wife never once suspected that
something linked to her daughter's disappearance might be going on. He spent hours down there, and managed to feed
and clothe two or three people for 1/4 century without wifey ever wondering what is going on. Then there is the matter of
their raising two of his and his daughter's inbred children upstairs in the house, with 'normal lives'. What did wifey do when
Josef showed up from the basement every couple of years with a couple of extra babies? Hey, honey, look what I found. LEts keep em!

None of this b.s. story makes sense.












SquiggleVonNoodle
I think that after the case has gone to court we will all get the true story.

What I thought though was that everyone knew about the cellar but that it was considered his domain.
goalienan
There are so many sad aspects to this story, and this physco actually believes he did no wrong...He has stated that "he" took his granddaughter to the hospital, and that "he" could have killed all of them in the basement, with noone ever knowing, but "he" let them live, so in his devious, sick mind he feels that he is being betrayed to look like an incest monster...Every day we read more about this inhuman creep and there's always something new added...
goalienan
QUOTE (SquiggleVonNoodle @ May 8 2008, 06:31 AM) *
I think that after the case has gone to court we will all get the true story.

What I thought though was that everyone knew about the cellar but that it was considered his domain.



Hi Squiggle, yes most everyone did know about the basement, saw him coming and going, not letting anyone down there, noone suspecting anything...He was a tyrant, his word was law and it seems most people were afraid of him.....
SquiggleVonNoodle
QUOTE
An Austrian accused of keeping his daughter as a sex slave for 24 years insisted he was "no monster", as over 500 residents of his town staged a rally in support of the victims.

While the government in Vienna agreed to take a tougher line on sex crimes, Josef Fritzl, in comments passed by his lawyer to the tabloid newspaper Oesterreich, insisted he was "no monster."

Fritzl, 73, claimed credit for having saved the life of his daughter and added: "I could have killed them all. Then there would have been no trace. No-one would have found me out."

The prosecution, which interviewed the suspect Wednesday for the first time since his arrest at the beginning of last week, said it found Fritzl to be "cooperative" and "ready to talk".

Spokesman Gerhard Sedlacek said the interview with investigating prosecutor Christiane Burkheiser in St. Poelten prison where Fritzl is being held, lasted "about one and a half hours" although Fritzl was not yet questioned directly about the accusations.

"The interview focussed on his personal history, his professional career, et cetera," the spokesman said.

In the comments published by Oesterreich, Fritzl claimed he had saved the life of the eldest of the six surviving children born from the sexual abuse.

Nineteen-year-old Kerstin, who was born in the cramped dungeon where Fritzl held his daughter prisoner and was never allowed out, was rushed to hospital on April 19 with multiple organ failure, which doctors suggest could be a result of her incarceration.

She has since been in an artificially-induced coma and put on a life-support machine.

It was Kerstin's hospitalisation that triggered the events which led to the discovery of the shocking abuse case. But Fritzl said: "If it weren't for me, Kerstin wouldn't be alive today."

He added: "It was me who made sure she was taken to hospital."

Police say the retired electrician has admitted that he locked away his daughter Elisabeth, now 42, when she was just 18 and repeatedly raped her, forcing her to bear seven children in all.

Three children spent their entire life underground with their mother, never seeing sunlight, while three were raised by Fritzl and his wife as their "grandchildren" in the family home upstairs. The seventh child died shortly after birth.

The case has sparked widespread calls for tougher punishment for rapists and paedophiles.

On Wednesday, the government cabinet promptly agreed a package of measures to combat sex crime, which will come into force next year if adopted.

They included keeping criminal records of convicted sex offenders on file for much longer, banning convicted sex criminals from carrying out certain professions, and not allowing them to adopt children.

Under current Austrian law, criminal records are expunged after no longer than 15 years, depending on the severity of the crime.

The Fritzl case has raised questions about the practice after reports suggested the 73-year-old had been convicted of sex crimes back in the 1960s, but those convictions had since been wiped from his record.

When police carried out routine background checks on Fritzl when he reported his daughter missing 24 years ago, his record was technically clean, as it was when he applied to adopt three of the children born out of the abuse.

Under the new proposals, the time period will now be extended to 30 years for sex offenders and serious offences would no longer be wiped at all, Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said.

Meanwhile the rally, in Amstetten's town square, aimed to show solidarity with Elisabeth Fritzl and the children she bore with her father during her captivity, but also to remind residents that they "as a community, did not fail", said spokesman Hermann Gruber.

"This was one man," Margarete Reisinger, 68, said. "I'm proud to be from Amstetten."

Schoolchildren unrolled a dozen banners with messages of solidarity for the victims but also of criticism to the media for its vilification of the small town.

"We in Amstetten can't help that we had such a person among us, but the whole world is watching us," said Robert Schiller, 68.

"This Amstetten we see today, that's the real Amstetten," Gruber told the crowd calling for "a return to normality in our town and in our province."


http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=458990

Anyone here agree with him?
whitehound
QUOTE (SquiggleVonNoodle @ May 8 2008, 01:27 PM) *


I used to know somebody who lived part of the year in Austria and she reckoned it's a funny place, very concerned with rules and appearances although the rules are often unfair. Fritzl probably got away with it partly because a big businessman *must* be an upright citizen as well, so nobody questioned what he did too hard.

At the same time, he had the perfect cover, didn't he? He openly told everybody he was making rooms in the cellar but he said it was a nuclear bunker. If he was seen taking decorating materials down there, well, that was to make his bunker nice. People might think he was a bit obsessive, but they'd have thought that anyway when he built a bunker.

He was an engineer who designed blueprints, so there was nothing odd if he said he didn't want anybody to go into his workroom: people would just assume it was to protect his copyright from industrial spies.

He let out rooms at the same address, so if he was seen carrying things like washing machines into the house, people would asusme he was fitting them for a tenant. If he was seen taking them into the basement, he could say he was storing them there, because he was planning to fit them for a tenant at a later date.

You would think his wife might query the amount of food he took down there, but some reports said he bought most of it at scattered, distant shops to cover his trail, and given that he waited until his wife was abroad before taking Kerstin to the doctor, it's likely he usually waited until his wife was out of the house before smuggling food in. The four prisoners probably didn't eat all that much anyway, because bad air and lack of space prevented them from taking any exercise.

The wife may have realised he was up to *something* - but what he was really doing was so bizarre it really might not have occurred to her that he was holding their daughter captive, especially if she's not very bright or is very trusting. She probably thought he was entertaining a mistress - in the usual sense - or running an illegal gambling den or some such.

As for Fritzl himself, it's often said that psychopaths view other people as dolls or as characters in a play, as not fully real - and that seems to be part of what he was doing, playing doll-house with real live dolls. I suppose it really is to his credit that in the end he had enough of a spark of human connection not to let his daughter/granddaughter die, she was real enough to him for that. But perhaps the fact that he did have at least some ability to see other people as real and valuable makes him more culpable.
Asphodel
QUOTE (whitehound @ May 18 2008, 03:43 AM) *
As for Fritzl himself, it's often said that psychopaths view other people as dolls or as characters in a play, as not fully real - and that seems to be part of what he was doing, playing doll-house with real live dolls. I suppose it really is to his credit that in the end he had enough of a spark of human connection not to let his daughter/granddaughter die, she was real enough to him for that. But perhaps the fact that he did have at least some ability to see other people as real and valuable makes him more culpable.


This is how I responded to a similar statement in another thread:
"I personally think that it wasn't humanity that caused him to hospitalize her. I think that it was another selfish effort. I'm assuming that he figured that it would be difficult to successfully dispose of such a large body, and when the girl didn't get better it was in his best interest to preserve her life. Personally, I don't necessarily think that's his downfall. What crushed him is his arrogant nature. It lead him to assume that he had complete control over poor Elizabeth. He never expected her to leave a note with her daughter."

I still think thats how it was with him. I still fail to see humanity.
whitehound
True. If he was aware that there was a strong risk that his crimes would come out, and he took Kerstin to the hospital because he actually cared whether she lived or died, then it's to his credit. But if he was so sure of his control over his family that he thought he was safe to do so, then he may just have saved her for convenience, or because he didn't want to lose his toy (or his slave). We don't know enough to judge, at this stage, and may never know.

I am wary of all the websites dismissing him as a monster, though, because it is likely that his children still have some affection for him - however misguided. Whether it's the truth or not, it will probably be easier for them to manage their own conflicted feelings if they believe him to be more mad than bad. It will also be easier for those who were raped - Elisabeth certainly, Kerstin maybe - to accept that what happened to them wasn't their fault if they believe that he's simply crazy, because if a mad dog bites you you know it's the dog that has a problem, not something you did wrong.

And, after all, the most important thing is doing whatever will make it easier for the victims to recover.
thunkerdrone
QUOTE (SquiggleVonNoodle @ May 8 2008, 04:31 AM) *
I think that after the case has gone to court we will all get the true story.

What I thought though was that everyone knew about the cellar but that it was considered his domain.


His wife raised two strange kids, so how did he pull that off? Where did Fritzl get them?
What did he tell her? This story is spastic crap.
LucidElement
id luv that guy to come to my house.. he can try to lock me up... i get sooo pissed when i read stuff like this.
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