I always found an interest in japanese legends, be it demons or otherwise. There are few I've really tried doing some research on, though google doesn't help any. But anyway. So, Orochi, said by some to be a dragon or serpent, eight hills and valleys, or eight mountains, with eight heads and tails and eyes as red as winter cherries. Breathing fires as hot as the underworld, okay so I added that last part about the fire.

Anyway, Orochi seems to have a lot to do with eight, as he eats seven of eight virgin daughters of a family when Susano-o comes across the family, usually following their crying. In each it seems he asks to marry the eighth daughter whom he transforms into a comb, her name is Kushinada-hime, he either takes her form or something to trick Orochi, it isn't quite clear to me but. anyway.

So he asks for eight large kegs or vats of sake to be refined eight times and have a large ring built with eight rings. Are we seeing a pattern yet? if I remember, eight usually means death in japan. As the kanji for eight and death are supposed to be the same.

So orochi comes, sticks his eight heads into each of the eight gates, gets completely boozed on sake, Susano-O then chops off the eight heads, then tails, at the third tail he stops and finds the sword Ama-no-Murakumo-no-Tsurugi which he takes and offers to Amaterasu to settle an old grievance, in one story. But anyway, it always ends up as a grass cutter sword anyway.

But before I get too far into that. The point. Are there any other records of Yamata No Orochi? Or just Orochi? since it should count as a crypto...? Like, statues, probably not any sightings or anything else about it? Here are a few links I found, not from a naruto related site. or about the car. Or should we fear snakes with more then one head?

But imagine if a creature like orochi did exist. Eight hills and valleys and heads, my god. seven girls aren't going to do much to satisfy his hunger. And I assume the daughters were virgin. Doesn't seem to mention it anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusanagi
http://www.interq.or.jp/www-user/fuushi/b-eng/e-myth-4.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orochi

if you love dragons and dragon lore i suggest you read Dragon lance, the old heroes story linage. wonderfull story line. magic the gathering also has great artwork and mini stories about them.

While the basic dragon form can be seen in early tailed pterosaurs (wyrven), and draco lizards (quadreped), therefore establishing a biological precedent for these creatures, a multiheaded dragon is completely ridiculous. But I agree that "8" and the red color reveal the kernel of truth behind the legend. I suspect this may be based on sightings of live, and eventually seeing the washed up carcass of a giant squid.

Dragon as big as eight hills and valleys? Allows all eight of its head to chopped off? All of the connections to the number eight? This story is so ridiculous that it may have originally been nothing but part of a child's number game, and never was supposed to be taken seriously (unlike the real dragons they believed in).

Glad you are using some rationality.

I doubt this story has any truth behind it at all, this story probably is rooted in the whole "number of 8 means death in Japan" mixed with a dragon, a sign of evil in most stories.

He's in the Kojiki, one of the sacred books used in Shinto. It details various kami, their stories and lineages. I know he is depicted in paintngs and I'm sure there are statues and probably a shrine somewhere, at the very least to mark the supposed place of his death.

The sword is also one of three extremely sacred objects in Shinto.

From Kojiki Book 1, Chapter 19:

Susa-no-wo-no-mikoto was expelled and descended to the upper reaches of the Pi river in the land of Idumo, to a place called Tori-kami. At that time a chopstick came floating down the river.

Thinking therefore yjat there were people upstream, Susa-no-wo-no-mikoto set out in search of them.

He found an old man and an old woman, with a maiden between them, crying.

He asked them:

"Who are you?"

The old man replied:

"I am a child of the earthly deity Opo-yama-tu-mi-no-kami. My name is Asi-na-duti; my wife's name is Te-na-duti. Our daughter's name is Kusi-nada-pime."

He asked further:

"Why are you crying?"

He replied:

"We originally had eight daughters. But the eight-tailed dragon of Kosi has come every year and eaten them. We are crying because it is now time for him to come again."

He replied:

"His eyes are like red ground cherries; his one body has eight heads and eight tails. On his body grow moss and cypress and cryotomeria trees. His length is such that he spans eight valleys and eight mountain peaks. If you look at his belly, you see that blood is oozing out all over it."

Then Paya-susa-no-wo-no-mikoto said to the old man:

"Will you give me your daughter?"

He answered:

"Awed as I am, I do not know your name."

Then he replied:

"I am the brother of Ame-terasu-opo-mi-kami and have just descended from the heavens."

Then Asi-na-duti and Te-na-duti said:

"If that is so, we will with fearful reverance present her to you."

Then Paya-susa-no-wo-no-mikoto transformed the maiden into a hair-comb, which he inserted into his hair-bunch.

He said to Asi-na-duti and Te-na-duti-no-kami:

"Distill thick wine of eight-fold brewings; build a fence, and make eight doors in the fence. At each door, tie together eight platforms, and on each of these platforms place a wine barrel. Fill each barrel with the thick wine of eight-fold brrewings, and wait."

They made the preparations as he had instructed, amd as they waited, the eight-tailed dragon came indeed, as the old man had said.

Putting one head into each of the barrels, he drank the wine; then, becoming drunk, he lay down and slept.

The Paya-susa-no-wo-no-mikoto unsheathed the sword ten hands long which he was wearing at his side, and hacked the dragon to pieces, so that the Pi river ran with blood.

When he cut the dragon's middle tail, the blade of his sword broke. Thinking this strange, he thrust deeper with the stub of his sword, until a great sharp sword appeared.

He took this sword out and, thinking it an extraordinary thing, reported the matter and presented the sword to Ama-terasu-opo-mi-kami.

This is the sword Kusa-nagi.

The stories of multi-headed dragons and serpents may actually have an origin in a biological oddity. Two headed snakes, turtles and lizards are ocaisonnaly born. While these creatures do not survive in the wild (they will disagree about which way to crawl for instance) they will live in captivity. Prehaps the ancients saw a multi headed reptile, and then conjured up a myth about dragons or serpents with with scores of heads.

Why would anyone who "loves dragons" want to read that ridiculous c___p? The notion of piddling humans slaying mighty dragons as this offal presents is so implausible, I cannot imagine anyone over the age of 10 finding them worth reading. The people who excrete this sludge have absolutely no idea about the real capabilities of either humans or predatory animals. Nor do the stories make any sense. Why on earth would wise, centuries-old dragons be killing each other over human politics, and accepting humans and their commanders and masters as these silly books purport? Of course they wouldn't. But geeks apparently love the idea of slaying such mighty creatures or reducing them to loyal riding beasts.

Aye, i know no thing could possibly exist, unlike dragons. I'm saying I believe in them but how can nessie, a thing with flippers, be a wing who normally has wings and claws? a sea serpent possibly can't have flippers as it is a serpent, there for nessie is a giant penguin, but that is another topic. (Just kidding, it's a joke)

But I think the story and legends of orochi are interesting. I would love to see the statues of it, or heck, even a statue of the sword Susano-o had. replica or not. Even if a painting. I would love to see it. But still, would Orochi count as a crypto or not?

Or you know, dragons aren't wise century old beings but rather are commonly used in stories as an evil beast to represent evil.

To find out about Orochi, you would probably need to research the Ainu and their religious practices.

Wow and all that coming from someone who believes dragons are real?

The Dragon Lance books and other fantasy fiction are hugely popular, entertaining, and well, as I just said fiction, at no point do any of these books preach to be real or in any part a record of the actions of human's against dragons. They do in fact follow the age old tradition of 'spinning a yarn', story telling about heroic deeds and fights against evil, something we have been doing for some time all over the world for millenia, and I believe the use of dragons has been portrayed metaphorically in a lot more serious stories than a dragon lance books. Some of the stories are better than others, I've read a couple but not a great fan, but they have entertained, quite like these dragon threads have entertained me. Why do you act like they try to preach some sort of truth, your reaction is OTT rediculous

I suggest you draw up some hard evidence instead of insulting us 'Geeks' then maybe I'll take seriously the sludge being excreted about an animal that is quite clearly nothing more than myth and metaphor.

why oh why does it not suprise me that DC was the 2nd person to post?

Now, now. Lets all act like adults here and not fight. So DC, no flame wars, you guys, no flame wars. Or I'm sending you to time out! It's fine to discuss but let's not start flinging out religion and arguing like kids.

While I do not know od any relation between Hachi (8) and death, I do know that the word Shi means both 4 and death.

You can go to Japan and find builds without a 'fourth' floor just as here you can find buildings without a 'thirteenth'.

I imagine that Yamata-no-Orochi may just simply symbolize a strong, tyrant ruler with seven other strong leaders within it. Or a group of bandits that terrorized several valleys and mountains that happened to have eight strong members. Susa, simply journeying to this new land may have been able to simply infiltrate this group and while these people were drunk/drugged, he simply dispatched them.


To Dragonseeker:

Would have been the second poster but took awhile to type up the story.

We have seen mutated reptiles like snakes and turtles (even some mammals, like a perfectly healthy cat) who are two-headed. So if the same sort of mutation happened within a live dragon, couldn't that be the cause of a multi-headed drgaon? I'm not saying eight heads but if dragons do exist, then a two-headed one isn't very far-fetched.


Well, anyhow, back on topic, I think the story is completely ridiculous. The whole thing with "turning into a comb" and all the other things it mentions are blantly absurd. However, it is an interesting story, and I will see if I might do a little searching tonight, if I have time.

I think 'turning into a comb' would be more of an exaggeration of her giving him her comb for good luck. Such as a woman may giver her hair ribbon to someone special before heading off to battle.

Sounds logical, but the story is hardly believable, otherwise. Thanks for the heads-up, though.

Yeah, what you said here and before both make sense. Though the idea of multi-headed being really isn't much of a stretch like Otterclaw said. hell, we've seen things with two heads, four eye, more then four legs, with five legs, with a third arm, leg, ect, ect.

Though yeah, eight heads is a bit much and I guess I was thinking of something else. I was about four numbers off. Need to brush ups on mah learnings. Anyways. Saying IF dragons did exist, which I won't argue with anyone about, but I personally don't believe, forgive me. eight heads would be much. two or three maybe, if we're counting the thousands of other dragons, real and not. It's possible, but let's not count the Hydra which was supposed grow two heads for every one chopped off. Though Orochi and other beings like him are interesting. But I guess all it'll be is a legend.

Yeah, eight would definitely be too much. If you had a millions of dragons you would be lucky to get one with two heads, let alone over that amount. Like I said, maybe one extra head wouldn't be that ridiculous but eight? Has to be just legend. You wonder how many myths of animals, creatures, and monsters exist!

He's still used in quite a bit of modern day films and stories. As I said, I'm sure there is a shrine at the supposed area where this event took place, either for Yamata-no-Orochi, for Susanowo, for the event that took place, or to honor Kusa-nagi. No what the meaning behind the legend, it is still told and familiar through out Japan.

You should also check out the kitsune and Tamamo no mae

Ah yes, Kitsune, another favorite of mine. As are the many japanese ghosts/demons. I'd love to see the shrine for Orochi or Kusa-nagi or Susano-o. That would be awesome...

Japanese anime: Naruto

villans name

Orochimaru

Yamato no Orochi
Dragon of Orochi

man Anime is ripe with mythic allusions. its a great thing to pay attention to. when you do hear the real story youll remember hey thats what they were gettin at in [insert title here].

Play the game Okami on either Wii or PS2, it is this entire myth in game form, a beautiful and amazing game.

Aye, you can find many legends within anime. Sorta like a modern day retelling of old stories.

Off the top of my head, Blue Seed and Takegami: Guardian of Darkness involve this story.


Does anyone happen to have any information related to the sites or any other real life associations with the story? (shrines, holidays, etc.)



*Edit
Seems Idumo is an old romanized spelling of the old Izumo Province.


http://www.matsue.jp/kankou/06/e.html


Izumo Orochi Summer Festival and Fireworks Display(Matsue City)
The first day of the festival features a parade of dancing troupes through the center of Izumo. Featured dances include the traditional Orochi drum dance and original as well as Orochi-nebuta dances. On the second day, an incredible 5,000 fireworks are set off at the riverside park.


http://hometown.infocreate.co.jp/en/chugok...o/maturi-e.html

Izumo Orochi Festival (August 12, November 3/ Hii-gawa River bank, main commercial street at the train station)

The myth that has grown up around Hii-gawa River, flowing along the east part of Izumo city, goes like this: Hii-gawa River is the very place where Susano-no-mikoto, younger brother of the Sun goddess, Amaterasu-omikami, descended from heaven. He saw an old couple sobbing in deep sorrow there. He asked what's wrong with them. They told him that there is a monstrous snake with eight heads and eight tails which comes to take their daughters one by one every year, and the time has come when their last daughter would be taken by the snake, called Yamata-no-orochi. The young prince, boasting of his strength, made the snake drunk before killing it with his sword. At that moment, a sword came out from the snake's tail. This is Kusanagi-no-tsurugi sword, one of the three divine symbols of the Japanese Imperial throne.
The Izumo Orochi Festival, which is held in summer and autumn every year, is associated with this myth. A big fire works festival at the Hii-gawa River bank in summer, and a dancing parade with a 10 meter monstrous snake in autumn, bring out the real feeling of the respective seasons.




*Edit

Hii-gawa is a river that leads to Lake Shinji.

That would really be freakish if he existed.I would be in trouble*virgin*X).Too bad I cant command brush strokes at my on whim and destroy him,that would take care of that problem.

There is a roller coaster in Japan called Orochi. And it is pink! This is all I know. And that the dragon was supposed to have 8 heads.

Must be a fairly well known myth if it crops up in Japanese pop-culture so much, too.

But then again, the Japanese have a myth that there is a rabbit in the moon making rice cakes. Oh dear.

Think about how bird-like medieval dragons were depicted by the people you genuinely believed in them. The wings are often resting very flat against their backs exactly like a water bird. Unless in flight, and nowaday this may be done only on the darkest nights, no one would know that Nessie is a dragon, except for "putting two and two together" since the British isles is are filled with accounts of flying dragons, with sometimes the whole coountry seeing them in flight.

But this thing is simply too ridiculous to be called a cryptid. The creatures structure is impossible, as is the purported size. And who but an idiot would believe such a tremendous creature could even be killed by "just a guy with a sword". This one is too stupid to stupid to even be taken seriously by the most ignorant peasants. Maybe this is why no serious artist attempted to depict in in historical art, but maybe in mordern anime/manga garbage, for this is often as stupid as this story.

Except the 'guy with just a sword' is supposed to be a deity. And the fight between Susa and Yamata-no-Orochi has been depicted in historic artwork among other things. Did you even read anything I posted or are you just trolling for attention?

Not every story is a story of real life events.

It would be a lot more prudent to focus on debating the factual discrepencies in the story being presented as oppose to being so hostile, rude and dismissive, especially given the controversy surrounding your own theories.

Disparaging remarks aimed at people who enjoy dragon oriented fiction are similarly discouraged.

Geez DC, I said it was a joke or didn't you see that part? I happen to believe in Nessie too, okay? I just don't think she/he/it is a dragon, if she/he/it was a dragon, wouldn't she/he..*sigh* Nessie is easier. Wouldn't we have reports of Nessie spreading...her wings(simpiler still...) instead of just a had? If she was so smart for a dragon, would we have thousands of witnesses, videos and pictures? Not very smart I think.

Anyway. I think if orochi did exist, who wouldn't miss something THAT big and with that many heads and tails? I mean honestly...though if you feed him a few maidens and/or virgins and then bam, he's done for a year. he has to be easy to take care of it...just be warned, he gets bigger.(Reference to pet shop pets cuteness-factor.) Plus at least you have eight drinking buddies. But seriously.

I had no idea they had holidays and stuff for Orochi and Susano-o. That's kind of cool. I'd love to see it. All those fireworks, mah gods. It must be a heck of a holiday.

And twice a year too...I imagine some awesome drinking goes on.

so in other words he's like a hydra?

No head regrowth, but multiple heads and tails with a single body.

Here's a painting of the story.



Paiting by Toyohara Chikanobu - 1870

A rabbit in the moon making rice cakes? Hmmm, I'll have to see if moon-rice cakes are any better than normal ones. XD And oh, dear, I think I need to change my avatar.

And I too, would love to see those fireworks. It must be one heck of a party!

Sounds a bit like a Naga to me

I sound like a moron but I have to ask...what the heck is that?

Why, I could explain but I was never go at it, so instead. I shall give you a link from wikipedia of all things, to the Naga. You can google for more info as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%81ga basically they are half-man/half-snake. But that's about as far as my knowledge goes sadly.

well i no these legends and u made a few mistakes one 8 is not the bad number its 4 that looks like death and the snakes linked to 8 so much because he is the 8th of the 9 great demons. the story's of the nine tails.... his name escapes me..... everything is 9. also the sword is in the snakes belly in the more pure legends everything is always suicide with the Japanese . also he cant really be a dragon story unless u believe in a fox as tall as a 9 level panagora (don't no spelling ) tall, a raccoon the size of 1 mountain and a sharks as long as 3 ships..... see they all have their number in them but still taking the legend alone it does make a lot of sense with the dragon theory

Ah, I knew I was wrong about the number. I just couldn't remember it that well. Also, which dragon theory? I seem to recall a number of them, and plenty mostly made by DC...

Four and Eight?! Oh, dear, please don't name 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, or 42 because then we all know we're in trouble.


Anyhow, that's an interesting legend. You wonder where they get the connections with numbers. I can just picture the Japenese going "Ohmigod! He's dead and his face kind of looks like a four!" Still. Pretty interesting, although clearly just a myth.

OK 2 things by theory i meant the general fact that he was based on a dragon and otter its not really that odd the "letter" for 4 and death is the same so it is a really creepy thing.

on a side note: useless fact number 666 ( i kill me) the number 13 is unlucky because of Fri the 13th instead of Fri the 13th being unlucky for 13 but all other unlucky days are unlucky for their number ( i said unlucky 4 times in that sentence without noticing creepy)

edit: srry otter kinda late misread what u said..... anyway

I think I had something for that, but now I can't remember because it doesn't make sense. But wow, so..all other unlucky days like 13 are unlucky so it's unlucky to be unlucky? Or..what? Anyways. I wonder what they did with Orochi after Susano-o killed him...

I am reminded of DC's multiple claims of dragon fondness for alcohol. Prehaps a similar myth basis was in play here.

Other multi-headed dragon and serpent myths: there is a 9-headed serpent displayed at Anguar-Wat, a multi-headed cobra that was supposed to have sheltered the Buddha, as well as one that was to destroy the world by breathing flame, the Greek Hydra, and of course, the 7-headed dragon of Revalation.

If such a creature existed its enormous bones would still be littering Japan, but of course, some dragon stories are simply a nonsense. But they probably would not have been written if it were not for the awe and wonder of the real dragons caused. With super giant dragons like this story, sometimes they are created to explain an unusual geographical feature like a hill or island that is supposed to be the body of the dragon.

One wonders is such stories were ever taken seriously or if they were always acknowledged as fables like Paul Bunyan and his giant blue ox.

of course there are real historical accounts of dragons in Japan, in on case one being offered six horses as an offering. It doesn't say if the horses were just thrown in a dragon's pool, or if people saw the dragon literally eat the horses. The animal offerings of many cultures to gods seems to have begun by "feeding" the dragon gods the actual animals, though long after the dragons were gone, they continued to "symbolically" kill the animals, and the meat burnt to ash or eaten by the priests. The Hebrews made it very clear that Yahweh really did consume the offerings, unlike what they termed were the offering to false gods by the cultures around them.

*slow clap* touché...You make valid arguments my friend. This one and the last go to you! But I am not finished! ...at least not until I can think of or find something else.

Anyways. Does anyone else think they ate Orochi? I mean, something that big...that's a lot of food right there.

Truthfully, I would never even consider eating a hundred ton multiheaded magical monster, but then again, we're talking about the Japenese.

If there was such a creature, I imagine that many would devour it in an attempt to gain it's strength and power.

That's a human, for you.

Well if they ate him, it would somewhat explain what happened to him. Still raises an interesting question about the bones that DC pointed out. Though what if they or susano-o buried the bones or something?