We all hear of talks about religious intolerance these days, but does it exists?
In places like this forum, it does but what about in the real world?
Can you honestly say it is practiced? We see & hear reports of people being harassed by other who do not have the same beliefs. days.
Even Christians are complaining about people not saying Merry Christmas these days
& Others complaining about the same thing. They all want their religion to be noticed.

NO one group seems to be ok with Happy Holidays. Why can’t people just let others believe what they wish? Why can’t Pagans walk down the street wearing a pentagram without being looked down upon? Same the anyone else we do we get over trying to be right & just get along. I've gone to pick her up before & watched her tell a customer Happy Holidays & have watched the customer fly into a rage. I've also seen her tell a jewish women happy hankanna ( sorry for the mispell) & then another tell the women behind here (wearing a cross) Merry Christmas & she told my wife she was a racist! So these days she says happy holidays. I don't go around saying I'm a pagan either but no matter what your faith you should be able to walk down the street without being looked down upon. Even here in the U.S it seems that even politicians cannot publicly say they are atheists w/o being persecuted. Tolerance towards one's beliefs rings hollow in the U.S., if those beliefs are not part of the mainstream.

I think that people's beliefs are tolerated. However, I think that what people want is acceptance of their beliefs. They want justification for them. They want others to see what they are and think "Wow, that person must know a lot to believe in such truth." The don't only want to not be harassed they want to be acknowledged. There are a few people who don't care whether they're acknowledged or not. I personally believe in Judaism, and for a Gentile there aren't really any holidays (cept for maybe Rosh Hoshanah and Yom Kippur). So when people say "Happy Holidays" or something of that nature I'll say "I pray that your days go well for you too."

People who are not the majority can't truly express themselves. It's sad. From all sides of the spectrum the odd guy out is also the guy no one likes. People grow up without exposure and they end up being close-minded and afraid of new things. That which is different becomes "bad" and they persecute it. It's why people in countries where the children are exposed to more things are much more tolerant and kind then people who live in sheltered "happy-perfectly-american" existence. If you don't get out there and meet people at an early age, and learn to appreciate that there are differences, you will be intolerant. Now, when I meet intolerant people I know it's mostly not their fault. All I need to do is ask them some questions about their background and I'll learn that they came from a nice family with no big problems or tragedies. They lived in the same place with the same people all their lives and they have no idea that there's a whole big world out there with 6.5 billion other people.

Nowadays "good" and "bad" have become subjective because people use the words "good" and "bad" for everything. Someone thinks differently, they are "bad" someone thinks similarly, they are "good". People like their comfort zones. They don't like that which shocks them. They don't like that which makes them think to hard. Because it is hard, it's something they've never experiences, and once you reach that point there's no going back...

I expect that, given a suitable bar and enough alcohol, the majority of posters in the S vs S forum would get along fine if they met in real life, regardless of which religious team they were batting for.

The last time I was harassed by a group was when I was caught on the expressway after the Spurs won a championship. Everyone was rushing downtown and the expressway was packed near it. Since I was not yelling and honking some other car nearby began saying me and my wife must be rooting for the other team and then someone tossed a beer towards me. Very bad conduct but ya nothing compared to English football hooliganism.

The worse cases of religious intolerance that I can remember are when the Columbine shooters killed that one girl, some cannot decide which one it actually was, just because she believed in God and also when those Christian kids tormented Tempest Smith for being a witch and she finally committed suicide. Very sad in both cases.

hey ! I'm fine with Happy Holidays !! lol I prefer it. It's evolved from a Pagan holiday , to christian , and seems like it's back to a Pagan sort of humanitarian celebration ! I like the general celebration .

I think people give lip service and say they accept other beliefs , but really don't. as far as the big 3 are concerned anyway. And here in America it's christianity at the head. Oh it's PC to say all are equal and accepted ........ until it comes down to brass tax proving it.

until I hear a christian say a jew or muslim or pagan ect ...... ( and vice versa of course ) will find themselves in the same heaven via different beliefs I won't believe it. It's like you can see their wheels turning " oh yeah God accepts all religions and beliefs " ( you poor sod are gonna find your rear blistering cause only mine is the right one) .

At the very least you gotta have respect for the egotistical hateful ones who say out loud what they are thinking. A holes ? sure. but honest ones.

Of course this doesn't mean all religious persons hold the above views of God being bigoted. thankfully. but I do think it's more widespread than appears. I'm grateful God doesn't think that way.

The only way for all to really get along is to realize all beliefs are equal in the eyes of God. call me a pessimist , but I don't see that happening any time soon.

The Bible states it and I believe that believers will be judged by the Word while non believers will be judged by their conscience and if their conscience does not judge them wrongly and they are good people they will have a place in heaven. This definitely applies to everyone including Jews and Neopagans. Kinda hard for a believer in the Bible to believe something else. Maybe it just needs to be pointed out to them as it was to me...

in other words all religions are equal ?? or is this a place somehow below christianity ? like a second class citizenship.

It is the same heaven as far as I know of. Since the Bible mentions no other why would someone infer there was second class citizenship?

Well, maybe people are not used to having many people of other religious beliefs around them? Thats why they are so intolerant?

people do it all the time,I know people who are religous and believe in some of the oldest religions the world has to offer.Yet they had to flea there country out of fear, and intolerance of there belief.It's kinda sad, and even here in the us there are just alot of people who are judgemental of others,weather they are religios or not.I think it boils down to the individual person in most cases,and not nesisarily the religion that one is affiliated with in life.

The whole Holidays situation has arose not from religious intolerance as much as the perception of it and I think people mostly get annoyed because it is PC gone mad.

Where I live in the UK is one of the biggest multi cultural populations in the country. I was a little miffed when the council announced there would be no happy christmas signs up in case they offended, and yet there were numerous council funded diwali celebrations.

I am not religious I don't believe in God, I have many ethnic Asian friends, who laugh at the prospect of being offended, and are only to happy to have christian's and other religions sharing in their religious festivals, and vice versa.

I guess I shouldn't be bothered by it, but the principle is rediculous.

Sorry but that is like saying “Why can’t Pagans walk down the street wearing a swastika without being looked down upon?” It’s the symbol of the pentagram and what it represents to mainstream society that is the problem, blame it on Hollywood if you want to place blame, but it is seen as a symbol of ‘baby eating devil worshipers” and no longer represents what it once meant or what you want it to mean. No spin doctors can change the perception off a swastika wearer (thanks to the Nazi party) and no amount of PR could change the perception off a pentagram wearer (Thanks to Hollywood).

Perhaps Pagans could adopt a new symbol that is better related to what they believe, maybe a representation of an oak tree or something that might inspire good questioning instead of negative perceptions!

A similar thing is happening within the Christian community with more and more Christians using the sign of the fish instead of the cross to represent their beliefs. Because the symbol of the cross has gotten bad press (thanks again to Hollywood).

Irish

I so respect what your saying wise one, but hollywood and money so to speak is so fictional, politics and media I believe is what digs the spur of the rights and wrongs when It comes to Religion.

In regards to the rights and wrongs and common sence of some religions Its so in ya face and from what Ive learnt very crule aswell.

Where are we... who are we if we cant keep the origins of our own pasts.
If we cant keep but just a little of how far weve come in evolving.
Respect is the word we use today, worship is a place where we take ourselves because 'we' make that choice.

Now I'd like to add, the problems that Australia had in Sydney and Newcastle when a white woman was harrased on a beach by ethnic ppl, and was made a piece of meat. There was brawls and fighting, slander and discrace placed publically for all to see.
Tis not Religion itself that creates hatred but the people that are born into their culture that go out of their way to verify exactly the opposite to their beliefs itself.

I respect those that are natural born to any country, but to throw ones weight around and bring to other countries what so many have tryed to change is the ultimate pause of evoloution.

I am just tried for all the fighting. I don't care what your religion or waht race you are. Just don;t or stop pushing on me or on anyone else.

jonny b makes a good point that it is the individual and not necessarily the religion. Either way true change begins with us as individuals. When we let go of differences and quit viewing them as reasons to be suspicious of others then we have made true progress. Just have to wait till it catches on to others and spreads. In the end superior beliefs will always take the place of inferior ones as soon as one person starts thinking better and teachers another the same.

I agree Grey Area PC has gone mad and is out of control. To think I was actually for it in the '90s but I had no way of knowing the monster it would turn into. The backlash against it needs to get stronger. People should be able to have group prayer without someone crying about it, government offices should be able to celebrate Christmas even if the country has a small population of other religions. It is truly an affront to culture and totally changes culture. If I move or visit a foreign country or even remain in this one and change my views, other people should not have to tone down their celebrations for me, if I visit another country I want to be able to feel the way they truly do things, how sad when people come to the West hoping to see how we do Christmas and find it all toned down. Myself I do not even personally celebrate Christmas since I do not consider it biblical or to even be Christ's birthday but I recognize the culture around me should have the right to do so and I will visit family gatherings in the spirit.

Irish I believe you hit the nail on the head. I am not even sure why people are so focused on the pentacle. When I was into magic the six pointed star had much more meaning to me since the Seal of Solomon is the most powerful emblem in magic. The seven pointed star, the faerie star, or elfin star, also had much more meaning to me than the pentacle.

I think religious intolerance IS practiced today. By most people that are religious it seems. But without a doubt, it seems that Protestants practice it the most...

More likely the minority will always feel that way about the majority. If you were in the Middle-East the same charge could be made towards whatever sect of Islam, Sunni or Shi'ite, is dominant in the area. If you were on the Indian subcontinent in many places it would be Hinduism and so forth. Reading around about religious persecution around the world this will have others come to the same conclusion.

Make a few google searches and it is easy to see that Christians just might be the most persecuted religion in the world. if we stop thinking locally and think globally for a minute we can see that true persecution with violence, arson, and murder persists in the world and most of the time it is Christians at the brunt end of it.

Religious persecution in Israel

Religious persecution in Latin America

Religious persecution in Asia

Religious persecution in Russia

Religious persecution in India

Religious persecution in Africa

Religious persecution in Indonesia

I think it would be much more appropriate for some people to educate themselves on the symbols before jumping to conclusions about them.Even some of those who wear certain symbols need to do this.

Too,not all Pagans wear a Pentagram...since there are many different types of Pagans.

So why should we have to change? Make others change or perhaps people should get off thier collective butts & stop listening to someone else & find out for themselves what it means. Makes no sence to change to suit others.

exactly i belive why sould people convert or change because of what others think

Thats the whole Catch 22 of it all though. Nobody should feel pressured to change anything about their religious symbology. But the down side of that is having to accept religious intolerance. I think it is a true test of faith for believers in any religion and lack thereof.

Tolerance, it is a funny thing. It would be wonderful to see tolerance of every religion, but is it really sincere? In a way, it even sounds like a dirty word. Tolerate. "I am going to tolerate your beliefs." See what I mean?

Little Hawk speaks about tolerance and division eloquently.

While it hurts to see such intolerance around the world, I also see no honor in tolerance just for the sake of making people happy. It's not honest and you're just lying to yourself. I think the only way to truly and honestly be tolerant of every religion is to just deal with the fact that we are all different, and that is something I think a very little amount of people can do because we are all (collectively) hung up on being right.

I think Surah 109 sums it up quite nicely.

1. Say, O Muhammad to the disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, His Angels, His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and Divine preordainment.
2. I worship not that which you worship,
3. Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.
5 Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your religion, and to me my religion.

I feel that no matter what we say to people to interest them in our religion, it will never work. Because the source of inspiration is from God alone. People may relate to you their beliefs, but it is God who shines the light into your heart to accept it. So we need to stop getting offended every time someone denounces our religion as false. If it was meant to be for this or that person to follow this or that path, they would.

Just real quick, the original post mentioned christians being upset about christmas not being called christmas and how they get upset that others say happy holidays... in actuality, I think it is the other way around. We all called it christmas, but now we are told NOT to call it christmas and if we do, we are considered incorrect. It was the attack on the holiday name, not the usage of other terms that caused certain christians to speak out about their right to say "Merry Christmas".
Over the holiday, I was at a nail salon and I wished a woman Merry Christmas. Although she didn't get angry outright, she made a point to sneer "Happy Holidays" loudly while narrowing her eyes at me. I offended her by wishing her happiness, but 10 years ago, I don't think she would have been offended.
Religious tolerance is not about live and let live anymore, it is about telling people what it is acceptable to say out loud.

Your right you do not have to change at all! However as you have said before you want to be accepted by the majority of society. And the majority of society believes it to be a satanic symbol wrongfully or not. The average Joe is not going to bother investigating a pentagram anymore than they would be interested in the good meanings behind the swastika. It’s ingrained in their culture.
If you genuinely want people to understand and accept your belief you need something that better reflects your faith not something you have to constantly defend.

A little public relations goes a long way

If you are not willing to make changes you can not expect others to change their perceptions either.

Everything is all bend out of shape. But I am going to offend people!!!. I am going to say Merry Christmas been saying for many year. Screw'em. If they don't like it they can leave. I get offended at Happy Holidays. I don't care what people think anymore!!! I am tried of being PC.

People that walk around with a Bible in hand and large cross medallion are also not looked upon favorably by society. I agree with Irish it is all about presentation. Heck I feel scared sometimes just to wear my simple silver necklace with a small cross charm on it. I honestly do feel that if I wear it someone might give me bad service all because of it, or they might just view me as differently and presume I am intolerant, there comes a limit when other people's labeling of Christianity as intolerable makes some of us downright ashamed to even display our faith in public. So I do not and if I wear my inconspicuous necklace I always am aware of it is tucked in neatly under my shirt and not showing. My wedding ring though is a nice piece from James Avery with an Iron cross, the Germanic symbol, alternating with three looped rings which signify eternity.



I am a little to tired of political correctness. The majority should not have to change to accommodate the minority who wishes to spoil everyone else's fun just because they feel negative. Totally agreeing people should act as they wish. Unfortunately as my post above shows I as a Christian feel bad at times so do change the way I present myself only to keep the haters at bay.

I wear a celtic cross. People ask me if I am a durid. I tell them I am a sub driud that I am only allow to worship small trees and brushes LOL and blows there mind. I keep on walking and smiling.

lolz small trees and brushes haha

I think more people need to learn how to laugh things off. I wore a triple goddess symbol for a long time (until I lost it) and I'd just laugh if people made a nasty comment to me. It didn't bother me too much. It still doesn't bother me too much. I get called a satanist regularly, and I just find it funny. Some people will believe some things no matter how hard you try to explain the truth to them, so you have to learn to shrug it off. When violence occurs, however, I believe that officials need to take it seriously. There have been too many cases of people of many different religions being victims of hatred and violence. I think alot of us would be fine and get along with each other well. . .but there will always be those that will hate those with opinions different than themselves and they are the ones that cause the trouble and put a blemish on whatever religion they belong to.

I don't think anyone should get offended by "Happy Holidays". I don't get offended when people say "Merry Christmas". I mean, what's so bad about stores hanging signs that say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? Happy Holidays includes Christmas, so why get all bent out of shape about it? There are alot of religions out there, and for the majority to be treated "better" is like say the racial majority should be treated better, in my opinion at least. We live in a country where we have to take everyone into consideration. It's only fair. There should be no special treatment to any religion, seeing as though freedom of religion is supposed to be one of our country's proudest accomplishments.

Due to the fact that every religion differs, though mostly founded on the same principle. Tolerance is nearly impossible to install within a person who upholds a belief system that varies from another person. Conflict occasionally arises thanks to differences, that is the negative effect of religion.

And sports, and politics, and music, and phylosophy and.............!

...and parties.

I have seen enough violence break out at parties or wherever people are drinking for that matter.

Same can be said of all religions I've seen Christians whine about how they are judged because of what a few do & say.

Parties, music, Sports, etc. , are minor compared to religious affairs, next comes Politics. Thank you Pope Urban II, you have really set a good example..

Also, the closest thing to violence in Philosophy would be a rigorous debate on perspectives, rules of Societal placement, and moral standpoints...etc...

" Can't we all just get along?"Yer darned tootin we can, It's an individual belief with freewill mixed in. I like your style and beliefe Norwood, You have a good Heart wich looks out for your bros and sisters, I wish they all looked out for you, Such is free will.

I know Your spirit and Heart is True.
God,Father and Mother Bless you.
Love Omnaka

I do agree that we can all get along. I am sure though there is Christians who would still attack Pagans even if Pagans were open and accepting of them just as there are Pagans who attack Christians even if some are open and accepting of them. There will always be a few on both sides of the divide who seek nothing than to tear the other side down. Sad but true but we cannot let them win. We can only accept them and even if we cannot force them to be our friends we can always be open for friendship so when one or another decides to live and let live we can live together to our fullest.

of course we can get along if we chose to but we can't get along as long as there r people who hve their own overal interests and they use an manipulte the rest of the people for their own benefit.

THnx Greetings