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joeycastaneda56
According to 'The Random House Dictionary'-

PAGAN- a person who worships many gods.; a person who is not a christian, jew, or a muslim.

WHAT GOD DO YOU WORSHIP AND WHAT DOCTRINE DO YOU FOLLOW? HOW FAR BACK CAN YOU TRACE THE ROOTS?
Rosewin
Some of them just make it up as they go along, a bit from history books, a bit from other sources, they do not have much to go on methinks...there are some though who are part of long established traditions carried on from parent to child, mainly mother to daughter, and can be found all over the world. Most fall in either the first camp or the second. Either way both are valid forms of expression IMHO The ones who hate the Book usually have their own books written by Gardner and the like but these are just generalizations since not all Neopagans and even Wiccans practice Gardnerian traditions. The ones I have the most respect for are the solitary witches also known as hedge witches. Very strong women who do not find the need to announce what their beliefs are. Maybe that is what interests me since they keep to themselves and are more mysterious. Some of them even keep a broom lol

Good luck with the thread I have been trying to get Neopagans to share their views and practices with us but not sure if it is secrecy or they just fell inadequate when compared to our beliefs that date back thousands of year. To them I would say witchcraft also dates back that long even if their knowledge of it is all rather modern reconstructionism.
SilverCougar
I 'worship' Dionysus and Bast.. so that's traced back to ancient greece and egypt. However my 'practice' on the 'pagan path' is shaman/animism which can be traced back to well pretty much pre crow magnion man. As for a doctrine.. meh. Go with the law of society, law of nature... pretty much "I do my thing, you do yours.. you don't tell me what to worship, I won't tell you to bugger off." kinda thing.
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 07:12 PM) *
Some of them just make it up as they go along, a bit from history books, a bit from fantasy books and movies, they do not have much to go on methinks...there are some though who are part of long established traditions carried on from parent to child, mainly mother to daughter, and can be found all over the world. Most fall in either the first camp or the second. Either way both are valid forms of expression IMHO The ones who hate the Book usually have their own books written by Gardner and the like but these are just generalizations since not all Neopagans and even Wiccans practice Gardnerian traditions. The ones I have the most respect for are the solitary witches also known as hedge witches. Very strong women who do not find the need to announce what their beliefs are. Maybe that is what interests me since they keep to themselves and are more mysterious. Some of them even keep a broom lol

Good luck with the thread I have been trying to get Neopagans to share their views and practices with us but not sure if it is secrecy or they just fell inadequate when compared to our beliefs that date back thousands of year. To them I would say witchcraft also dates back that long even if their knowledge of it is all rather modern reconstructionism.


I was babtized Catholic, but think of myself as more a Christian. I dont agree with the Catholic church with all their restraints..((Control the masses of people))..

My views are somewhat based on Christian religion and my faith, but some of my beleifs are because of my experiences....I also was told by Norwood regarding that I beleive our spirits come back again to gain furthur knowlledge ....that is is also the Pagan view.

So I guess Im a mutt.....

But the one thing I do know is that Im a child of the Lord!
MUM24/7
QUOTE (SilverCougar @ May 8 2008, 09:43 AM) *
I 'worship' Dionysus and Bast.. so that's traced back to ancient greece and egypt. However my 'practice' on the 'pagan path' is shaman/animism which can be traced back to well pretty much pre crow magnion man. As for a doctrine.. meh. Go with the law of society, law of nature... pretty much "I do my thing, you do yours.. you don't tell me what to worship, I won't tell you to bugger off." kinda thing.



laugh.gif thumbsup.gif laugh.gif thumbsup.gif

You're the best......That's what everyone's philosophy should be...... yes.gif
Thisisnotmyname
I don't follow a specific "doctrine." The gods I worship come from different areas of the world, mainly Egypt and Greece. The main four for me are Ra, Isis, Zeus, and Hades. Other than that (and a few other gods/goddesses) I practice some animism.
Animism, as Silvercougar said, is pretty much the oldest tradition of worship in the history of humanity. And I don't need to mention how far back the Greek and Egyptian traditions go back.
I also take some beliefs from Hinduism and Buddhism.
Some of my beliefs, on the other hand, come from more "modern" crafts like Wicca. To me it doesn't matter how long a tradition has been around. If it matters to you, then why aren't you practicing Hinduism?
Darkwind
I am a neo-Celtic Druid. I worship the Irish pantheon. Here is a web site that list them: http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mytholo.../main.htm\
They are Gods and Goddesses of the Tuatha-Dé-Danann, which means people of Danu. Danu is the Mother of Gods.
I believe it goes back to prechristian Europe.

Here is some articles about Druidry from Religious Tolerance.org

http://www.religioustolerance.org/druid1.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/druid2.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/druid3.htm
norwood1026
A Pagan is a term for someone who lives in the country. Not all Pagans do magick not are all Pagans witches. We have some good friends who refuse to do magick because they fell it might upset the natural balance of things. Paganism is a term for someone who does not worship the Judeo-Christian God. I personally worship the Green man he is my deity of choice the Green man is related to the pre-Christian Celtic deity Cernunnos. Again with most things Pagan it's hard to tell just how far back they go. Also like other Pagan God he predates Christianty. As with many Pagan beliefs, he was incorporated by early Christians in their pantheon. You can find him staring down from roofs & cathedrals and churches throughout the world. Like Darkwind I am a druid.
Genocyde
I'm an eclectic Pagan, I mainly worship the Egyptian pantheon, though on occasion I work with Greek, Norse, and Hindu.
Rosewin
Now your avatar makes perfect sense norwood.
Sweetsalem82103
Paganism isn't just one religion. There are alot of religions under the "umbrella" of paganism. It depends on what type of paganism you practice as to what god/esses you worship, if any (as Paganism is not necessarily synonymous, though it often mistakingly is, with polytheism due to the fact that most Pagan religions are Polytheistic). Paganism is considered one of if not the oldest form of religion. Archaelogy has found proof of nature worship and/or the worship of multiple gods in some of the oldest known cultures. Some forms of Paganism are relatively new, like Wicca. . .while others try and follow paths that are as close to possible to what our ancestors may have practiced (depending on where the ancestors were from, the traditions vary). . . and still others practice traditions that have been passed down through many generations. Hinduism is considered a form of paganism, as are most of the tribal and folk traditions across the world. Paganism is sometimes viewed as meaning belief in more than one god, and sometimes it is equated not so much with the gods/esses worshipped, but the spirits of nature and/or ancestors that are revered. contact with the spirit realm(s) may also be a major part of the tradition.

I myself work in a form of Shamanism.

I've never met a Pagan that gets their stuff from fantasy books, however. . .that's probably a good thing dontgetit.gif ?

Wikipedia article
SurfinTiki39
QUOTE (WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT @ May 7 2008, 06:49 PM) *
I was babtized Catholic, but think of myself as more a Christian.


If you're Catholic, you are Christian. Catholicism is just a smaller denomination inside Christianity, like Lutheran, or Methodist. I know that Catholcism is sometimes wanted to be thought of separately by people, but it's still technically Christianity.
norwood1026
QUOTE (Sweetsalem82103 @ May 8 2008, 01:46 AM) *
Paganism isn't just one religion. There are alot of religions under the "umbrella" of paganism. It depends on what type of paganism you practice as to what god/esses you worship, if any (as Paganism is not necessarily synonymous with polytheism). Paganism is considered one of if not the oldest form of religion. Archaelogy has found proof of nature worship and/or the worship of multiple gods in some of the oldest known societies. Some forms of Paganism are relatively new, like Wicca. . .while others try and follow more paths that are as close to possible as what our ancestors may have practiced. . . and still others practice traditions that have been passed down through many generations. Hinduism is considered a form of paganism, as are most of the tribal and folk traditions across the world. Paganism is sometimes viewed as meaning belief in more than one god, and sometimes it is equated not so much with the god/esses worshipped, but the spirits of nature and/or ancestors that are revered. I myself work in a form of Shamanism.

I've never met a Pagan that gets their stuff from fantasy books, however.



Pagansim covers a huge variety of religions such as: Celtic, Ceremonial Magick,Druidism,Asatru,Wicca,Solitary,Eclectic,Blended,Family Tradations, Santeria,Voudon, & Shamanism.


I too have never seen a TRUE Pagan who takes thier religion from a fanasty book.
Sweetsalem82103
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ May 7 2008, 08:59 PM) *
Pagansim covers a huge variety of religions such as: Celtic, Ceremonial Magick,Druidism,Asatru,Wicca,Solitary,Eclectic,Blended,Family Tradations, Santeria,Voudon, & Shamanism.


I too have never seen a TRUE Pagan who takes thier religion from a fanasty book.


Yeah, I know. . .that's why its sort of hard to explain when telling someone that doesn't know. wacko.gif

I've actually been a practicing Pagan for all of my life, and I started out sort of with my own beliefs, then started studying Wicca, which led to studying the different Celtic faiths, which led to me becoming a practicing Druid, which, after a traumatic event in my life, led me to study Native American Shamanism, and now I'm what I like to call an Eclectic Shaman. laugh.gif It was a long ride to get here, but you're always learning and discovering new things while practicing. . .its a truly amazing experience. Its not a "static" system, that's for sure.
norwood1026
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 8 2008, 12:12 AM) *
Good luck with the thread I have been trying to get Neopagans to share their views and practices with us but not sure if it is secrecy or they just fell inadequate when compared to our beliefs that date back thousands of year. To them I would say witchcraft also dates back that long even if their knowledge of it is all rather modern reconstructionism.





Christianty is only some 2,000 years old thats not saying alot when the world is much much older. I'm not sure how you can say that Pagans would feel inadequate after all its the Roman Church (Christianty) that tried to wipe the Pagan cultrure out, & came really close to doing so, to me that speaks of feeling inadequate.
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
QUOTE (SurfinTiki39 @ May 7 2008, 09:48 PM) *
If you're Catholic, you are Christian. Catholicism is just a smaller denomination inside Christianity, like Lutheran, or Methodist. I know that Catholcism is sometimes wanted to be thought of separately by people, but it's still technically Christianity.


I think of myself as a Christ follower...not the Catholic church.
If it makes any sense...
I choose to seperate myself from the Catholic rigidness of religion.... but follow Christ.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian
SurfinTiki39
Yeah, thanks. I know what the definition of a Christian is. And yes Catholics are Christian, so I was never wrong. But sorry, I didn't quite understand what you meant. You didn't really specify. The way you phrased it, made it sound like you didn't get it.
norwood1026
QUOTE (SurfinTiki39 @ May 8 2008, 03:25 AM) *
Yeah, thanks. I know what the definition of a Christian is. And yes Catholics are Christian, so I was never wrong. But sorry, I didn't quite understand what you meant. You didn't really specify. The way you phrased it, made it sound like you didn't get it.



I've often wondered why some people do not believe that Catholics are Christians.
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
QUOTE (SurfinTiki39 @ May 7 2008, 10:25 PM) *
Yeah, thanks. I know what the definition of a Christian is. And yes Catholics are Christian, so I was never wrong. But sorry, I didn't quite understand what you meant. You didn't really specify. The way you phrased it, made it sound like you didn't get it.

Never said you were wrong honey...I just needed to clarify as you said...as I felt also...so I did.
Rosewin
The God I worship is the same God the Israelites did. That same God came down in the flesh as Jesus. But Jesus was the Creator. It is older than 2000 years. Do not forget we believe in dispensationalism. That is several periods known as dispensations. The current one is 2000 years old but there were previous periods of dispensation. In this period the One True God chose to reveal Himself to all gentiles first as Jesus then in the form of the Spirit. But it is all the same God.

I was playing about the fantasy books and movies. I thought that would be the only way to get you guys to open up. Either way it is a bit dishonest to say that all Pagan belief goes back as long. Some do. But most Neopagans are into reconstructionism. There really is no way to know how those in the past worshiped, what ceremonies and rituals were involved, so new ones are invented. The religion some Neopagans practice might have nothing to do with how it was practiced in antiquity.

As I said though some traditions are not reconstructions but actually passed down. Yaqui sorcery is one. Many Native American beliefs are another.

My sister used to practice Santeria. It might be considered Pagan but those who practice it would not identify as Pagans. Considering how much of it is blended in with Catholicism as well. It goes back to the more ancient forms without the saints symbolizing the actual orisha as practiced by the Yoruba in Africa. When some came as slaves to the New World their religion was forbidden and they were forced to convert. Many pretended to be Catholics but just made each saint represent an orisha and kept their beliefs alive that way.
norwood1026
I feel the need to add this about Druidism.



Druidry is a spiritual path – a religion to some, a way of life to others – Druids share a belief in the fundamentally spiritual nature of life. Some will favour a particular way of understanding the source of this spiritual nature, and may feel themselves to be animists, pantheists, polytheists, monotheists or duotheists. Others will avoid choosing any one conception of Deity, believing that by its very nature this is unknowable by the mind.

Monotheistic druids believe there is one Deity: either a Goddess or God, or a Being who is better named Spirit or Great Spirit, to remove misleading associations to gender. But other druids are duotheists, believing that Deity exists as a pair of forces or beings, which they often characterise as the God and Goddess.

Polytheistic Druids believe that many gods and goddesses exist, while animists and pantheists believe that Deity does not exist as one or more personal gods, but is instead present in all things, and is everything.


The lineage of the Druid spiritual tradition can be traced across many thousands of years of time.

We see the first evidence of spiritual practice in Europe 25,000 years ago - when candidates for initiation would crawl into caves, such as those at Lascaux in France or Altamira in Spain, which are dramatically painted with figures of wild animals. After being initiated in the belly of Mother Earth, they were reborn into the light of day. Twenty thousand years later, in around 3000 BCE, we can see the same practice of seeking rebirth within the Earth: great mounds were built, in which initiates would sit in darkness awaiting the time of their rebirth. The best example of this is found at New Grange in Ireland, where a shaft is oriented to the Winter Solstice sunrise, so that the dawn rays can bathe the initiate in sunlight after his or her vigil through the night.

Four and a half thousand years later, in the sixteenth century, the key text of Druid spirituality, transcribed from the oral tradition by Christian clerics, talks of the spiritual and magical training of a Druid, in which he is eaten by a Goddess, enters her belly, and is reborn as the greatest poet in the land. So from over twenty thousand years ago to the sixteenth century, we see a common theme - which we find again in the training of Druids and poets in Scotland up until the seventeenth century. There, to awaken their creative genius, they were told to lie in darkness for days, and after this period of sensory deprivation, they were released into the brightness of the world.

This theme of seeking spiritual rebirth and creative expression through undergoing a simulated death-rebirth experience, runs like a golden thread of spiritual practice through the four major periods of history that relate to Celtic and Druid spirituality:

The first is the prehistoric period:in which as the Ice Age retreats from Europe, tribes from many directions, including Spain and the steppes of Russia, move westwards towards Britain and Ireland. A megalith building culture develops, which raises great mounds like New Grange, and great circles of stone, like Stonehenge. This culture possesses considerable knowledge of astronomy, has engineeering skills that we find hard to understand even today, and seems to use Pythagorean mathematics to build their monuments, two thousand years before Pythagoras is born.


This period of pre- and then early Celticism gives way to the period of documented history, in which we can read about the Celts and Druids from the works of classical writers, such as Julius Caesar. We discover that the Celts had developed a highly sophisticated religious system, with three types of Druids: the Bards, who knew the songs and stories of the tribe, the Ovates, who were the healers and seers, and the Druidswho were the philosophers, judges and teachers. During this time there was much cross-fertilisation between Celtic culture and that of Greece and Rome.


With the coming of Christianity, we enter the third period:in which the schools of the Bards became Christian schools, and continued to exist until the seventeenth century; and in which the Ovates probably became the village healers and midwives; while the Druids remained as the intellectual elite, and mostly converted to Christianity. This period lasted for a thousand years: from the triumph of Christianity over all of Europe by the sixth century, to the sixteenth century. During this millennium, Celtic and Druid spirituality was preserved by the Christian clerics who performed the valuable service of recording many of the stories and myths by which the oral teachings of the Druids were conveyed. People who think that Druidry was destroyed with the coming of Christianity fail to understand the resilience of spiritual teachings when they are encoded in myths and stories: and it is thanks to the clerics’ recording of these tales that we can be inspired by them today. St Patrick also recorded all of the old Druid laws in Ireland - providing us with invaluable information on the ethics and social structure of pre-Christian Celtic culture.



The fourth period begins with the sixteenth century, when scholars in Europe ‘rediscovered’ the Druids, and then began to reclaim their Celtic heritage. The Church had taught that we were savages until the arrival of Christianity. But with the translation and printing of the classical texts on the Druids, Europeans discovered that their ancestors were far from being savages. At the same time, reports were coming back from America of Native American people who, like their ancestors, had been untouched by Christianity, and yet were worthy of admiration. This provoked a period known as the Druid Revival in which groups and societies were formed to study Druidry and Celticism. The founding father of the science of archaeology, William Stukeley, formed a Druid society in London and referred to the Princess of Wales as its Patroness. Cultural festivals, incorporating Druid ceremonies, and celebrating Celtic languages, grew up in Wales, Cornwall and Brittany. And this period of Revival has never finished. Instead, it has developed into a Renaissance, as more and more people find within Druidry a living spirituality that holds all of Nature sacred, and that offers a path of creativity and freedom, rooted deep in ancient tradition.



http://druidry.org/modules.php?op=modload&...1&page_id=7


Rosewin
QUOTE
The lineage of the Druid spiritual tradition can be traced across many thousands of years of time.


It cannot be considered a true lineage if it is reconstructionism. The old ways are completely lost. What is practiced now is modern invention and guesswork. There is no way the same rituals and ceremonies are practiced in the same exact way as before. Even if some of the major festivals fall on the same exact day. For example the last festival fell on Beltane which many celebrated May 1st. That was not actual Beltane though which is a cross quarter day and that fell on May 5th. If nothing was done on May 5th that is just another facet of how things are not done the same way as before when they actually payed attention to the cycles of the sun and the moon and did things on certain exact days.
Lady Otterwynnd
I'm a Pagan, so I'll try to describe what I believe and why I believe it. I'm technically an eclectic solitary Wiccan. That's the bare foundation of my religious views. I choose what I want to believe based off of my own morals, ethics, experiences, and logic. I use a lot of science to base my beliefs off of. I believe in evolution, although I cannot say whether I believe in strictly chance that created our life or whether there was some intelligent design or guidance at work. I simply cannot say, nor should I claim that I know that, because there's no way of knowing the origins of life or the universe. We simply weren't there; we don't know. I also pick and choose what beliefs I wish to incorporate from other religions. Confucius, Buddah, and yes, even the infamous Jesus' teachings have influenced what I believe and how I see the world. I don't approve of people telling me what I should believe; my beliefs are based on what I feel is right and true, which can also be backed up by personal experience and science. I realize personal experience isn't reliable evidence, but it's what I base my beliefs on, and I can assure you all that I make sure my experiences are genuine. For instance, I believe in spirit totems, reincarnation, magick, the concept that all organisms are equals, we should love everyone as equals, and that every organism has a spirit. As for picking up beliefs from fantasy books, I feel that that is just.. well, to be blunt ridiculous. Fantasy is fantasy for a reason. I do enjoy reading fantasy novels, though, but I certainly don't base my beliefs on them.

Now, for deities. Here's where things get fun and complicated. I personally believe that there is one "universal consciousness", if you will, and Gods/Goddesses are mere personifications of this inconceivable force. I feel that it doesn't really matter which deities you worship, because all the worship goes to the same deity in the end. I don't like to use personifications of deities in my rituals, so I merely refer to the deities as the Goddess and the God; female and male; yang and yin; darkness and light (remember, darkness doesn't always equate to evil, as light doesn't always equate to goodness). If I'm doing a ritual for a specific purpose, then I will choose the deity that personifies that same quality just for concentration of energy and will. It's more of a catalyst than anything else, I feel. I also believe in supernatural entities. I believe that there are positive beings here to help us through our mundane, physical lives (higher vibrational beings) and entities who simply want to harm us because we are a "higher" (not the right term, but bear with me) being than they are. I feel that these beings are what the traditional "demons" are; they are simply beings who are jealous of our ability to feel emotion, love, and physical existence, so they try to harm us, or suppress our own consciousness (or spirit, if you will) in order to feel what it's like to "exist" like we do.

Now, as you can see I base my beliefs off of what I feel is "correct" or "true", so I cannot really say how "accurate" my beliefs are in any sense of the word. All I know is they feel right to me, and I think that is all the really matters. I can't give you any specific doctrine or text that says what I believe is true, and maybe it's better that way. In all honesty, I think religion is more about personal discovery, enjoying this life, and learning the many lessons we need to learn. Hope this helped.
Rosewin
Very honest and respectable post Lady O.
Rosewin
QUOTE
As for picking up beliefs from fantasy books, I feel that that is just.. well, to be blunt ridiculous. Fantasy is fantasy for a reason.


It would not be disingenuous to say though that many people first become interested in Paganism from fantasy books including faerie books. Belief in the faerie itself only goes back to the medieval ages, becoming more popular in the 1800s, but most of it is just literature in the fantasy genre. Nothing wrong with that especially if someone branches out to find other sources to base their beliefs on.
Lady Otterwynnd
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 07:57 PM) *
Very honest and respectable post Lady O.

Aw, thanks Clovis.
Rosewin
Yep, if I would not a Christian I most likely would worship the goddess, Diana specifically (which also includes the triple goddess of Hecate, Artemis, and Cybele), but also include many other beliefs to form a complete yet totally personal belief set. Active meditation, astral projection, chakras, keeping an eye on the seasons, as well as a fondness for the faerie would all be part of it plus much more. Even if the faerie are a more of a modern invention all it takes is one to believe and they will be there. The best systems draw wide and take the best parts from others IMHO
Lady Otterwynnd
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 08:00 PM) *
It would not be disingenuous to say though that many people first become interested in Paganism from fantasy books including faerie books. Belief in the faerie itself only goes back to the medieval ages, becoming more popular in the 1800s, but most of it is just literature in the fantasy genre. Nothing wrong with that especially if someone branches out to find other sources to base their beliefs on.

True, but basing religious beliefs directly from fantasy novels is a bit much... Like Harry Potter. If it gets people interested in Wicca and the occult then fine, but they shouldn't claim that Harry Potter is directly linked to witchcraft, because it isn't. Sure they do spells, but they aren't even traditional ceremonial rituals at all. No casting protective circles, no addressing the four elements, no invoking Gods/Goddesses.... Nothing. Books like that are okay if people actually study the religion it gets them interested in, but to claim you're a Wiccan after only watching and reading Harry Potter is ludicrous, in my opinion. And yes, I would definitely agree that a lot of Paganism is based off of mythological creatures and concepts.
Rosewin
Haha I would have to agree and I hope your post is not prophetic in that some will claim to be a wizard only after reading potter. It is interesting you only use four elements many use five. Asia has six.
norwood1026
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 8 2008, 02:54 AM) *
It cannot be considered a true lineage if it is reconstructionism. The old ways are completely lost. What is practiced now is modern invention and guesswork.



I would not say completely lost but the same could be said for all religions.
Lady Otterwynnd
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 08:10 PM) *
Haha I would have to agree and I hope your post is not prophetic in that some will claim to be a wizard only after reading potter. It is interesting you only use four elements many use five. Asia has six.

Well I see the element of "spirit" as implied, but yes, four main elements. I have quite an affection for Air, as it's kind of the only element that my numerical, astrological, and name has. I'm Air all the way. It's fascinating to see all of the different elements that cultures use. Feng Shuei uses the six elements, so yes, I am familiar with them, but I like the 4 (5 being implied, for me) element system better.
WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT
QUOTE (Lady Otterwynnd @ May 7 2008, 10:55 PM) *
Now, as you can see I base my beliefs off of what I feel is "correct" or "true", so I cannot really say how "accurate" my beliefs are in any sense of the word. All I know is they feel right to me, and I think that is all the really matters. I can't give you any specific doctrine or text that says what I believe is true, and maybe it's better that way. In all honesty, I think religion is more about personal discovery, enjoying this life, and learning the many lessons we need to learn. Hope this helped.


I like alot of what youve said in your post Lady O...

This is part I liked the best..forgive me for shortening you....
Lady Otterwynnd
QUOTE (WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT @ May 7 2008, 08:21 PM) *
I like alot of what youve said in your post Lady O...

This is part I liked the best..forgive me for shortening you....

Aw, thanks Warrior. And it's fine to shorten what I've said =]
Rosewin
So what directions do you associate with each element Lady O? Do you also know if there can be other configurations or does each sacred direction always have the same association in all traditions?
Lady Otterwynnd
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 08:24 PM) *
So what directions do you associate with each element Lady O? Do you also know if there can be other configurations or does each sacred direction always have the same association in all traditions?

I use the traditional set of correspondances: East is Air, South is Fire, West is Water, and North is Earth, in that order. And I've seen a lot of different configurations for the elements. Different colors can represent different elements, different directions can represent different elements, different elements are called on first, and so on and so forth. It can get quite confusing, which is why I just use the standard one.
norwood1026
I remember a while back when I was waiting for my wife to get off work, I was looking around in the new age section & I over heard these two guys talking. One guy was trying to convence the other how evil all of it was. I had to become involved in this litlle talk. He kept mentioning that in this or that movie he saw something that was in those that had to do with Witchcraft or Paganism so if it was in the movies then it must be true. I'm guess that some where someone has led him to believe that. It really come down to education about these things & because people are too lazy to read up on things it's others that pay the price.
Rosewin
Do you get into types of wood too? I used to have this book that listed several types of trees and their wood and each was associated with a time of the year, a color, and elements. I never did figure out what the list was exactly for and how the different types of wood are used. Also where did you get your athame and did you do anything to prepare it for use?
darkmoonlady
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 07:54 PM) *
It cannot be considered a true lineage if it is reconstructionism. The old ways are completely lost. What is practiced now is modern invention and guesswork. There is no way the same rituals and ceremonies are practiced in the same exact way as before. Even if some of the major festivals fall on the same exact day. For example the last festival fell on Beltane which many celebrated May 1st. That was not actual Beltane though which is a cross quarter day and that fell on May 5th. If nothing was done on May 5th that is just another facet of how things are not done the same way as before when they actually payed attention to the cycles of the sun and the moon and did things on certain exact days.



Thats not entirely true, the old ways weren't lost so much as they were nearly stamped out on purpose through genocide and forced conversion. That being said in some areas of the Holy Roman Empire, they did not end the worship of the local dieties but augmented them into the Roman pantheon. When Christianity came into the picture, in order to convert some who really were attached to the old ways, the church usurped some festivals and icons and remade them into christian images, but they still held on the old ways in some respects. The same kind of thing can be seen in Latin America where festivals days still contain a great deal of the local belief system in addition to Catholic beliefs. This is true in many places, and many people continued to practice one belief in church and still teach the old ways at home.
Lady Otterwynnd
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 08:36 PM) *
Do you get into types of wood too? I used to have this book that listed several types of trees and their wood and each was associated with a time of the year, a color, and elements. I never did figure out what the list was exactly for and how the different types of wood are used. Also where did you get your athame and did you do anything to prepare it for use?

No, I've never used any types of wood for elemental purposes. It sounds very interesting though. I know that different trees and plants are associated with different spiritual purposes, but I never really looked into it that deeply. Maybe I should! I got my athame at a martial arts competition in Baltimore, it's a katana with a black wolf handle (which is one of my animal totems), but I haven't consecrated it yet. I simply haven't had a need for it yet, so I'll probably consecrate it during Mabon this year.
Rosewin
I would agree darkmoonlady but I was specifically commenting towards druidism. There are many paths which are not lost and some were hidden away under the nose of the Catholic church. My grandparents were Catholics but also practiced other more indigenous beliefs alongside that. My sister was practicing Santeria for a while. Coming from South Texas there are many things other Catholics do which are actually remnants of the old ways including the all too common rubbing an egg then breaking it to take away the evil eye. There is always curanderos that can be found which is faith healing but also uses many herbs so is basically a form of green magic. Very old ways passed down from who knows how long. There are also Crypto Jews that appear as Catholics in the American Southwest. All that is just local and regional so the rest of the world has their own variants I am sure.
norwood1026
QUOTE (darkmoonlady @ May 8 2008, 04:37 AM) *
Thats not entirely true, the old ways weren't lost so much as they were nearly stamped out on purpose through genocide and forced conversion. That being said in some areas of the Holy Roman Empire, they did not end the worship of the local dieties but augmented them into the Roman pantheon. When Christianity came into the picture, in order to convert some who really were attached to the old ways, the church usurped some festivals and icons and remade them into christian images, but they still held on the old ways in some respects. The same kind of thing can be seen in Latin America where festivals days still contain a great deal of the local belief system in addition to Catholic beliefs. This is true in many places, and many people continued to practice one belief in church and still teach the old ways at home.






There are many connections between the pentagram and Christianity. Before the cross, it was a preferred emblem to adorn the jewelry and amulets of early Christians (followed by an 'x' or a phoenix). The pentagram was associated with the five wounds of Christ, and because it could be drawn in one continuous movement of the pen, the Alpha and the Omega as one. It was also an expression of a secret Gnostic heresy, found hidden here and there throughout Christian history- a symbol of Isis/Venus as the secret goddess, the female principle. The most notable instance of this symbolism is in the Arthurian Grail romances, which are Gnostic and kabbalistic teachings disguised as tales of knightly quests.

http://altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa100102a.htm


If I remember correctly the Pentgramwas also used to mark the first five books of the bible & I've also read that the Romans outlawed it but used it because they believed it held power.
Rosewin
Very interesting norwood it is nice to learn things on this forum. I never knew Christianity used the pentagram as decoration. The wiki article for pentagram says Christians used it up until the 1900s. So it fell out of use fairly recently and I guess with the revival of Eurocentric Paganism and birth of Neopaganism. Now days most prefer to use the Latin cross, the dove, and the star of David. The Latin cross I know was also an ancient pagan symbol, and the star of David is actually the Seal of Solomon, which is also a pagan symbol. Not sure about the dove though it represents the Holy Spirit. All the symbols though are just decoration and are not considered to be magical or anything of that sort as far as Christians are concerned.
joeycastaneda56
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 8 2008, 01:41 AM) *
Now your avatar makes perfect sense norwood.


............<<>> Man 'Clovis' This is going to be Good........Just let them talk................Joey huh.gif
Omnaka
QUOTE (joeycastaneda56 @ May 8 2008, 12:01 AM) *
According to 'The Random House Dictionary'-

PAGAN- a person who worships many gods.; a person who is not a christian, jew, or a muslim.

WHAT GOD DO YOU WORSHIP AND WHAT DOCTRINE DO YOU FOLLOW? HOW FAR BACK CAN YOU TRACE THE ROOTS?

Are you looking to change your beliefs, or to change anothers?
Or maybe just intrested in The Pagan ideology??
Love Omnaka
Omnaka
QUOTE (WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT @ May 8 2008, 12:49 AM) *
I was babtized Catholic, but think of myself as more a Christian. I dont agree with the Catholic church with all their restraints..((Control the masses of people))..

My views are somewhat based on Christian religion and my faith, but some of my beleifs are because of my experiences....I also was told by Norwood regarding that I beleive our spirits come back again to gain furthur knowlledge ....that is is also the Pagan view.

So I guess Im a mutt.....

But the one thing I do know is that Im a child of the Lord!

Child and warrior For Love and God, I bless you and the whole Holy Host bles your spirit. what a wonderfull spirit.

Love Omnaka
Omnaka
QUOTE (norwood1026 @ May 8 2008, 04:35 AM) *
I remember a while back when I was waiting for my wife to get off work, I was looking around in the new age section & I over heard these two guys talking. One guy was trying to convence the other how evil all of it was. I had to become involved in this litlle talk. He kept mentioning that in this or that movie he saw something that was in those that had to do with Witchcraft or Paganism so if it was in the movies then it must be true. I'm guess that some where someone has led him to believe that. It really come down to education about these things & because people are too lazy to read up on things it's others that pay the price.

He could just be a very young Spirit , prone to believing what an older spirit has taught him, No big deal because infinate spirit has all the time in all universes to learn, and experience all that love and life have to offer.

Love Omnaka.

Ps - We are not graded on our acomplishments, achievem,ents or anything of a sort, but we grade our self, or spirit on it's experience, and just the trying and experiencing , is a Big kudo, Better than not trying. That (Not trying ) is a big let down to self (Spirit).

Love Omnaka
joeycastaneda56
QUOTE (joeycastaneda56 @ May 7 2008, 11:01 PM) *
According to 'The Random House Dictionary'-

PAGAN- a person who worships many gods.; a person who is not a christian, jew, or a muslim.

WHAT GOD DO YOU WORSHIP AND WHAT DOCTRINE DO YOU FOLLOW? HOW FAR BACK CAN YOU TRACE THE ROOTS?

.............<<>> Out of (ALL) the pagans I debated with, only one and I mean only one has ever treated Me with (Respect). And that (Honor) goes To My friend (Lady Otterwynnd). We have two totally different beliefs,but yet We can share each other beliefs with out killing each other. And that means a lot to Me...........................Joey.
Wolf MacCanine
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 7 2008, 10:54 PM) *
It cannot be considered a true lineage if it is reconstructionism. The old ways are completely lost. What is practiced now is modern invention and guesswork.


This is not completely true.

We can "reconstruct" the old ways from different sources,such as art,poetry,music,folklore,history..etc.You'd be surprised at how much knowledge of the old ways is hidden in plain sight.

Too,the old ways are not completely lost.Much has been handed down through family lineages (especially in the Druidic and Elder Wicca) in addition to the knowledge which is hidden in the things mentioned above.

Very little of what is practiced today is of modern origin,unless you are speaking purely of some versions of Wicca (as well as a few versions of Druidic practices).Much of what the current Wiccan & Druidic practices contain in the modern day has been gleaned or borrowed from known practices amongst different cultures that we do have knowledge of.The borrowing of different rituals and other various practices takes place simply for the fact that there really is no strict "doctrine" amongst the Pagan communities (unless you happen to belong to a Coven or Circle that was started with a code of ethics,doctrine,laws,system of practice...etc.,which the founders may have had good reasons for using).Each individual is free to choose how they wish to practice their spirituality.This leads to very diverse systems,which is cool...because it helps each show their individuality.


QUOTE (norwood1026 @ May 7 2008, 11:35 PM) *
It really comes down to education about these things & because people are too lazy to read up on things it's others that pay the price.


Too true.

...

Lady O,as always,a marvelous post. thumbsup.gif
...

As for the original post...

I am a Solitary Druid,although I do interact with other Druids from time to time...as well as teach and guide those who have stepped onto the Path.

As for a "doctrine",there is nothing as strict as in other belief systems.Each is able to choose how they interact with Nature (or different parts of Nature),and in this way,will specialize in the knowledge which interests them...while still learning about at least a few other parts of Nature which will interact with their chosen specialization field.We dedicate our lives to the pursuit of knowledge,whether it be in our specialized fields of study,or in general.

We are also protectors and caretakers of Nature.We learn how we can live with Nature,and not against it.

As to how far back it can be traced...

The Druidic practices stemmed from the earlier Animism and Shamanism practices (both of which stem from at least the Paleolithic era).The Druidic practices are more diverse than the earlier two,as well as a bit more advanced.Both the Druid,and the "Magi" of the East,were considered the "Wise Men" (and women) of their cultures.They were the most learned of their cultures,and as such...were the teachers,advisors,"scientists",lawmakers & judges,doctors,spiritual leaders...etc.,of their cultures.
norwood1026
QUOTE (Omnaka @ May 8 2008, 06:19 AM) *
Are you looking to change your beliefs, or to change anothers?
Or maybe just intrested in The Pagan ideology??
Love Omnaka



Sounds like he's waiting to attack someone.
1.618
I'm a tree.
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