What you are about to see here is the 100% disproval of Noah's Flood, Noah's Ark, and in general Creationism as a whole in one shot.

Why would I do this? No it is NOT to bash you people or any the religion. Personally I think the core of Christianity and Catholicism is just fine. It uses stories and teaches some REALLY good moral values and ways of life. In other places it does however encourage out right murder for no reason. Just read the first quarter of King James and do not skip a single sentence. It is definitely there. Times back then were different than they are now. Thus the reason why entire sections of The Bible are no longer even read. Also thus the reason out right murder was fine back in those days. Remember we are talking about over 2000 years into the past. Times change......

This is really geared to the people who take The Bible too literally and completely accept it and all of it's contents as FACT. All I want to do is to make you think for yourself and see absolutely unquestionable math based 100% fact. No myth, no lore, no imagination, just straight up, in your face, 100% math based fact. I have done my research on, mass, water displacement, equal mass displacement, buoyancy, ship building, water cycle, cosmology, buoyancy in differential gravitational fields, animal's weights, and a whole lot of paleontology and zoology.

Now onto the subject at hand:

Flood:

It is said that the entire planet is submerged by water. The highest peaks are 6 meters under, as taken from Genesis chapters 6-9. Well if you were to liquefy all ice on the planet, the water levels would only rise 20-50 feet globally. Mount Ararat is 16,854 feet high, while the tallest mountain, Mt. Everest is 29,028 feet high. 16,854 feet does not equal 20-50 feet, nor does 29,028 feet. 20-50 feet equals 20-50 feet, no more, no less. This posses two immediate questions! Where did all of that water come from? Where did all of that water go? Well everyone who has made it past 2nd grade can tell you the flood never happened. Why? The water cycle. This planet has had the same exact amount of water on it since it's beginning. It is in an unending cycle of evaporation, condensation, and precipitation. Water changes form, but never amount. Of coarse there is a differential of about maybe 1,000,000 gallons or so due to comet bombardment and volcanic activity. Comets are mainly ice, which is solidified water.

There, the flood never really happened.

Now lets just assume that the flood DID indeed happen, Noah is real, and he is not a story stolen from the ancient Babylonians. There, the flood is real, Noah (not Gilgamesh) is real, and finally the ark itself is real.

The Ark:

I read a bit of the Boatbuilder's Handbook from uscgboating.org. This is the US Coast Guard here. I read there that a boat 18'6" long has the capacity to carry 2513 pounds. This is the deck, propulsion system, sails, passengers...... well everything. The longest figures that I have seen of Noah's Ark is 515ft long. I did some calculations. The largest Noah's Ark can carry 69,954 pounds. The average weight of an African Savanna Elephant is 7.7 tons. This is the largest land animal alive today. Noah's Ark could carry only 4 and a half of them and no more. Genesis chapters 6-9 says Noah needs 1-7 pairs of each animal on the planet. Again Noah's Ark could only hold 4 and a half Savanna Elephants. This is not even including the three decks, the people, food and water for 40 days and nights of the actual flood, the 150 days of water receding, and the 40 or 50 days after the water receded. This is the total actual time spent on the Ark. 7 months and 17 days.

How bid does the ARk actually need to be to hold 1-7 pairs of every animal on the planet. Not only animals but seeds of every plant, food, water, and anything else necessary for all people and animals.

Admittedly this is where I start guessing:

OK with plant seeds and insects alone of all of these alive TODAY and TODAY alone would be perhaps in the low estimate neighborhood of 500 tons. That's is seeds and a few pairs of insects of each specie alive TODAY. Now lets take into consideration the extinction rate from 4300 years ago until now and boost that, at the very least, to 700 tons. (this boat is already stupid huge and we didn't even put a single mouse on it yet nor have we put on storage for these things let alone food and water for 7 and a half months)

I'm gonna take a quick break and name a few animals:
Elephant, Lion, Grizzly Bear, Anaconda, Tiger, Wolverine, Polar Bear.......

Do you think primitive humans could contain such beasts? No freaking way!

Let me remind all of you that a Polar Bear can pick up a 2 ton White Whale and throw it using one, single, arm. Yes! they are THAT strong! You think a human can contain that magnitude of strength with primitive technology?? Guess again!

OK! Now for the animals, and I'll take a nice short cut and include all of the animals including the extinction rate of 4300 years to now. This is one pair of each animal: avian, terrestrial, and subterranean..... my extreme guess and best estimate would be 500 billion tons? The ship has got to be the size of the USA by now if not possibly all of Asia! This doesn't even include the three decks, food, water, people, and containment for 7 months and 17 days

Ready for more??? We just started!! We are so not even close to being done yet!! I can do this aaaaalllllllll day!
ALL DAY!

The Christian and Catholics have accepted that dinosaurs exist. Not only that, but they were on the Ark since we all lived at the same time. So, how about all the animals from the time AFTER the dinosaurs but before us? Lets give it a shot!!!

Animals of the Cenozoic Era come on down!!!!:

Woolly Mammoth, Woolly Rhino, Sabre Toothed Cats!!! Yes!!!! Megistotherium, Andrewsarchus (pretty much 6 ton giant dogs) Chalicotherium, Entelodont, Leptictidium, Australopithecus, Castoroides Ohioensis, Gigantopithichus, Ambulocetus, and the Indricotherium. The Indricoltherium is a 20 ft tall, 30 ft long, 20 ton mammal. The largest land mammal ever found. It dwarfs the mammoth in every respect!! The Bullokornis!! This is a 1,100 pound bird and is also known as The Demon Duck Of Doom!!!!!! Terror birds, Gastornis! Yup them too! I'm pretty sure there is a 1 ton bird as well, but I forget it's name..... Also lets not forget the insects and plants. Avian, Terran, and Subterranean of the Cenozoic Era!! Ready???

500 trillion tons!! + 500 billion tons + 700 tons = 500,500,000,000,700 Tons

One pair of each animal, no humans, food, water, decks, nor means of containment yet. This is not even the Ark itself. This is what the Ark must CARRY. I don't even think the planet Earth can contain this boat now! Anyone know the mass of Earth?? I'm not looking that one up yet. And I do stress YET! By the time we are done we might be measuring in solar masses........

Time to load up the dinosaurs!! The Mesozoic Era's turn now!!

Tyrannosaur, Allosaur, Carnisaur, Gigantosaur, Stegosaur, Triceratops, Protoceratops, Plateosaur, Spineosaur, Suchamimus, Gastonia, Ankleosaur, Brachiosaur, Coelophysis, Microraptor, Eoraptor, Velociraptor, Megaraptor, Thilizinosaur, Comptheosaur, Archeopteryx, Ornithechairus, Pteradon, Dinosuchus, Pterodactyl, Ornathilestis!! Yup!!! Load em up!!! Every dinosaur, avian reptile, ancient reptile, ancient amphibian, and primitive mammal!! Every last animal! And lets not forget the insects and seeds!!!! A few quadrillion tons?? Lets just say 100 Quadrillion!!

100,500,500,000,000,700 tons

Nope!! no food, water, people, decks, bla bla bla!! Not yet!!

By the way the mass of Earth is 5.9736 X 10^24kg

Now for the Paleozoic Era! Now I know what your gonna say and your right. Terran animals have only been on land for 315 billion years, so we get a break on this one. But don't for get plants! They have been on land for 475 billion years. Incests are there too. But a little bit less of a time than plants. And no, I'm not going to add in sea scorpions that occasionally made short scouting trips onto land. Nor am I going to add the fish that spawned in fresh water pools and then jumped back into the oceans. I honestly never counted a single fish. I didn't even slip in a guppy under your noses. This one is tough since I have limited study in this time frame. How does 250 trillion tons sound? That one may be an over estimation by 1 or 2 trillion.......

OK!! Grand total!! 100,750,500,000,000,700 tons! now for a few people, 3 decks, reinforcement beams, reinforced containment, food, water, and a few odds and ends. Lets triple that number since large animals can eat their own weight in a few months, and amphibians need a hell of a lot more water than any other animal. Also it's always better to over estimate supplies than run out. Especially for long trips......

Total now is: 302,251,500,000,002,100 tons. Now lets convert this into pounds. (# x 2000)

604,431,000,000,004,200,000 pounds!

And how long is Noah's Ark actually supposed to be? If a 18'6" boat hold 2513 pounds than Noah's Ark is........

604,431,000,000,004,200,000 divided by 2513 = 240,521,687,226,424,273.776'362'912'853'16 X 18'6" =

Noah's actual Ark should have been 4,449,651,213,688,849,064.862'713'887'7835 feet long in order to carry all animals, plants, humans, and insects and keep them alive for 7 months and 17 day.

OH! How forgetful of me!!! This is only ONE pair of each animal. NOT the required 2-7 pairs for some animals!! So this boat is NOT even it's full ACTUAL size!

Earth's Equatorial Radius: 6,378.1 km
Earth's Equatorial Circumference: 40,075.02 km
The Sun's Equatorial Radius: 6.955×10^8 m
The Sun's Equatorial Circumference: 4.379×10^9 m = 14,366,797,900,260 feet

This boat for one pair of each animal is 309,717.673 times LONGER than OUR Sun's Equatorial circumference.

1 soalr mass = 4,385,214,857,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds. Nope, we didn't hit 1 solar mass.



Dear God that's a lot of POOP!

wow - I need to read that a few times to get all the math - but very interesting!! And I thought my dogs left me a lot of "presents" in the yard. This helped put that in perspective for me!!! Nice post

Please let me know if you see some math errors. There is bound to be tons of spelling errors. I royaly suck at spelling and I'm noctural. It's 2:42 pm so it is WAY past my bed time and I'm extremely tired now.

What every happened about the super dino your "friend" had supposedly found?

Math huh? I just used common sense! Never was good at math though...

Moved to Spirituality vs Skepticism, as the OP is made from a Skeptical, rather than Spiritual, viewpoint.

Tiggs
[Forum Mod Team]

The flood is a freaking joke... Even the most die hard Creationists shudder at trying to defend it...

Of course it is impossible. It is botanically, biologically, and meterologically impossible to boot.

-SQLserver

zomg this has to be the very best argument i have ever heard against it. oh noes i guess i cannot believe in god now.

Oh wow!! Right here on UM!!! Finally proof that the Flood didn't happen!!!

I have read part of your post, math is not my favorite subject in the least. It seems to me you are subtracting God from the equation. Was this story not in the bible? It is like saying Jesus did not turn water into wine because no one else has ever done it.

Well that is complete non-sense. Sure, I could spend my time pointing out the myriad of issues - but why? Think of the time it took to think that up, even if it were complete fiction, there would be no changing this persons mind. I believe in the actual, historical creationist view of the flood mind you, not the neoscientific mediterranean only version - and I have no problem with any aspects of the event. With about 75% of our planet covered in water, it's hard to believe someone would actually doubt it, unless they really, really wanted to.

Becker, B. & Kromer, B., 1993. The continental tree-ring record - absolute chronology, C-14 calibration and climatic-change at 11 KA. Palaeogeography Palaeoclimatology Palaeoecology, 103 (1-2): 67-71.

No evidence of a global flood based on tree ring records.

It is equally hard to believe that someone would actually believe in the flood ,unless they really wanted to



fullywired

Raptor great post! The flood couldn't have happened. Loved the way you made your point with math, something I suck at. By the way I like your avatar.

Ooops! You forgot a step there Raptor! Let me fix it:

Here's a hypothetical situation for you, since you don't believe it happened. Let's assume Noah had some common sense, he wouldn't take fully grown animals, he probably brought babies or 'toddlers(for the lack of a better word), for the simple fact that they are smaller, eat less and sleep more than adults do. Now factor that into your calculations. Also factor in the canopy theory(I know most disagree with it but this is a hypothetical situation anyways), which if it were true, would've made the plants, animals, peolpe, etc. bigger than modern plants, animals, people, etc., which in turn would've made bigger trees, thus making a bigger ark. Since the people would be bigger, the cubit's would be bigger(maybe something like 18 in.). Now try and figure the amount of water/ice in this canopy and factor in what the Bible says about the fountains of the deep, possibly underground springs or something, which would probably give you the amount of water needed for a complete covering of the earth. Also, factor in God, which is an important factor.

If anything is wrong let me know, preferably without saying something along the lines of 'LOL that's so wrong cause this....', so please do it in an orderly manner. Thanks!


Tarheelsfan

I can't find the post, but some time ago I argued against the canopy theory by using a website showing how the thermal transfer of energy of the precipitation required to generate such a flood would have heated our atmosphere to approx 6400^o C. Noah, his family, boat and all the animals would have been carbonised. I'll try to find the ste I found before and link it again.

Also, the amount of water involved is approx 3x the amount of water currently in all the seas and oceans on the planet. Can that amount of water actually be present - even underground?

If you wish to factor in God, one would have to ask why He went to the effort of actually making a flood? Why not just blink everything except Noah etc away?

Stellar!

LMAO!!! Hocus Pocus!!!!! LMAO!!!

You so rock!!

Loenardo, Thank you, I was going to write that and now I don't have to.

Also this is not to mention the sheer amount of volcanic activity required to generate the components for water that would have to be superheated to 6400*C

Sorry peoples but there was no global flood. But this shouldn't have any bearing on one's faith.

Can someone explain to me how in world animals would have gotten to Australia and the Galapogos islands if there was a global flood.

Toddlers huh? Well thats a fine idea for some animals. But still most of the planet's past species were still well over a ton in toddlerhood and not to mention very leathal in toddlerhood. For example: Indricotherium, Tyranosaur, Bracheosaur, Apotosaur, stegosaur, triceratops, elephant, Utahraptor, megaraptor, velociraptor, Gigantopithechus dinosuchus, bla bla bla the list in unending. Yes true some enclosed aninamls do not weigh a ton at toddlerhood but are extremely leathal at just a few months old. And toddlerhood for dinosaurs can be quite a few years........

Also, when is the last time you tried to get a hatching from a mother croc? How about polar bear, lion, grizzly bear, gigantopithechus, leptictidium, bullokornis, black panther, raven, badger, tasmainian devil, ornithechchirus, dimetrodon, lynx, gastonia, gastornis, castoroides ohioensis babies? Ever try to get them from their parents? I think even the cute little leptictidium could really mess some people up!

Quite right bball, but read the first part of my entry. It says my aim here, and I specifically state that I do not wish to bash people nor religion. Sort of a diclaimer I guess.

Have you calculated cubic measures for the entire earth's atmoshpere? Before the flood the atmosphere contained a "mist" that watered the earth every night. According to the bible it had never rained before the flood. If that canopy collapsed, that might add a few feet to the sea level?

here's the thing --- other people have done it. it's a trick, and not a hard one. plus all you have to do is tell someone a drink is alcholic ( even if it isn't ) and they think it will be.

Nor am I. Which is why I mention that just because there wasn't a global flood, that doesn't mean you can't still follow the religion.

At the risk of my conundrum being ignored-

Can someone explain to me how in the world animals would have gotten to Australia and the Galapogos islands if there was a global flood.

Wait!! What!!!! It never rained untill the flood????!!!! That has GOT to be THE most preposterous thing I have heard in quite a few years! Possibly even a decade!! I won't even try to calculate the constant temperature the planet to have to maintain to destroy the water cycle. Aslo I won't even try to calculate Earth's orbit, axis, and revolution either for the temperature to remain static. Does The Bible say we have had the moon before the flood? If we had no moon before the great flood I could see this being a universaly small chance but come on...... What would need to happen in our solar system for Earth not to have rain is more rare than...... than...... I don't know what........ Something though!!!! I am at a complete loss for words that could possibly attempt to define the abject rediculousness in that.

Every planet in our solar system has weather. Even the dwarf planet Ceres and other asteriods and comets have gravity and weather. Our Sun has weather. Have you any idea the implications that altering our solar system to the effect that Earth would have no rain could bring?

I can't even think or type straight yet. Holy cow what a mind bender!!!!

Yetihunter, Congardulations! You have made me go stupid! My brain has not ceased up like this is in a VERY long time!

so all those babies that needed mothers milk in great quanties...... 40 days of toddler elephant milk. ( actually more than 40 days)

a baby elephant eats every 3 hours -

New-borns may consume 11.4 litres of milk a day

where are you going to get that much daily ? not including water mind you . and mudd ( or something) to keep their hides moisturized.

now also who is to teach the baby how to be an elephant ? they learn via their mothers.

and this is only elephants ! not to forget there are 3 types of elephants - African Bush , African Forest and Asian

Well That indeed is a very good question! You could ask the same question about North and South America and Antarctia too. The animals would have to be brought there by some means...... Another Ark perhapse? Or just majickally poofed there by God. Unfortunately bball that is the best answer I can give. My sincerest apologies. With out the millions and billions of years of tectonic migration and evolution it would be impossible.

And indeed you are right! No flood, but you can still follow the religion. You just can't take every thing The Bible says as face value fact. The Bible speaks of great values and morals for the most part. This is just like every other religion's core. The true golden rule not "who ever has all the gold makes the rules". But "do what you will and harm none" or "do onto others as you would have done onto you"

Well your answer isn't good enough! And unfortunately that is the only answer that can be given. And you are most certainly right. Without plate tectonics it could not happen. The best answer I ever got for this was that the flood happened during the Pangea super-continent, and all one can do is laugh at that. The continents would be racing across oceans if they were still together during the time of humans. But no worries, I don't expect someone who doesn't believe in a global flood to answer this question.

If a person who does believe in a global flood reads this thread. please answer this question. If you can't, then you have to concede that there was no global flood.

Can someone explain to me how in the world animals would have gotten to Australia and the Galapogos islands if there was a global flood.

This is such a tired debated. Surely there was some sort of massive flood in the recent past (6000 years) that inspired all the myths but it obviously wasn't global. The only people who argue it need it to validate their preconceived ideas.

Indeed.

Those are some gorgious pictures by the way!

Here are some non math reasons also:
-Noah and pals wouldn't have even known of most of the world's animals.
-He also wouldn't have the means to even travel the world to get these animals even if he knew of them.
-nor would he have the man power or means to transport these animals to the ark.
-There wouldn't be enough genetic diversity for anything on that raft to continue to exist after a generation.
-Five minutes after Noah let the animals off the Ark the two lions would have eaten the two zebras.
-There is no way Noah could have goten these animals back to their natural habitats.



Don't most people now a days believe that flood wasn't global but local? As in God didn't flood the whole world but the known world?

What I think is that The Great Flood was more or less a sham. God floods part of the world and tells Noah. Noah builds his ark and collects his animals. In reality Noah wouldn't have even known of most the worlds animals so he probly just went around collecting animals near his home thinking he had them all. God floods the place and everyone who didn't live near the land that was flooded saw Gods wrath and learned a lesson. Noah would have learned his lesson also. God wouldn't have needed to flood the entire planet to get the point across.

Also if God destroyed the entire planet do you really think Noah would still have faith in him? Odds are Noah got off his ark and realized that everything wasn't destroyed and God just lied to him to so he can learn his lesson. Also God killing everything because everybody was being bad is dumb...because god being all knowing would know that post flood people would still end up bad and therefor killing everybody is pointless.

If the Great Flood where true I think God's intent for it was to be a show of power and angst towards the world's people, a reminder of sorts. Also a way to provide Noah with journey.

Koalas ... only found in Australia . so how did Noah get them there ? and why aren't there any wild throughout the middle east ? africa? anywhere in the vicinity ? lots more examples like that .

makes no sense . but neither does the whole Noah story.

i ama uscg lic. captain i can run anything up to 100tons,im working on upgrading to a 500ton masters and i for couldnt fathom even if one could build a ark this big and get all the animals needed,,,,,,,,how to load this vessel for stability in any kind of weather muchless rough waters...all it would take is a couple of thses animals shifting their weight causing the ark to list causing other animlas to loose balance and fall toward the list causing the damn ark to roll over,,,and this dosnt include the effect of the water causing the ship to list and pitch.....just from what i do for a living almost everydayof my life.loading my boat and delivering cargo to passing ships underway..it would take years to load this thing right,hell years to plan on how to load the boat animals,,,,some of the first animals would die before the last animals were loaded onboard...


this thread struck me funny because i never thought about noahs ark as a adult,reading this i started thinking about how this thing would have to be loaded, what i would do,,,,and just just working out how to load the meat eaters away from the plant eaters so no late night snacks took place,and then the plants from the plant eaters,,,(realy simple clasification) just figuring out that plus the weight and how placement would affect the stability plus making sure not to waste any room for animals then storage and proper air and ventelation......haha i wanted to end this long ago but i keep finding new problems that would have to be worked out before you could even begin to start to laod the fist animal

just another fun fact i just looked up even today with all modern tchnology.....

Commercial vessels, nearly 35,000 in number, carried 7.4 billion tons of cargo in 2007.[1] )
dosnt even add up to the amount of food that would need to be carried and thats a totoal of ever shipe we have working comercialy)


The largest ship ever built is the Knock Nevis, a Norwegian-owned supertanker formerly known as Seawise Giant, Happy Giant, and till recently Jahre Viking. It is 458 metres and 69 metres in breadth. It has a deadweight of 564,763 metric tonnes. Its fully laden draft is 24.6 metres, too deep for most harbours worldwide. It needs to be loaded and unloaded at open sea. It sails under the flag of Singapore with a crew of 40 persons. Knock Nevis was built by Sumitomo Corporation's Oppama shipyard between 1979 and 1981 and delivered to a Hong Kong shipping magnate who had it extended by several metres. It was sunk in the Iran-Iraq war, refloated and went through several changes before finally emerging as Knock Nevis.

largest wooden vessel

The Wyoming was a wooden six-masted schooner, the largest wooden schooner ever built. She was built and completed in 1909 by the firm of Percy & Small in Bath, Maine.[1] The Wyoming was also one of the largest wooden ships ever built, the longest wooden ship ever built (450 ft from jibboom tip to spanker boom tip), and the last six-mast schooner built on the east coast of the US.


Because of the extreme length of the Wyoming and its wood construction, it tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold (see Hogging and sagging). The Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.


Description
It was 329.5 feet long and 50'1" wide, with a draft of 30'5". The Wyoming had a volume of 373,054 cubic feet; that is, a gross register tonnage (GRT) of 3730.54. After subtracting the volume consumed by the helm and crew quarters and other areas not suitable for cargo, it had a cargo capacity of 303,621 cubic feet, or a net register tonnage of 3036.21. Its deadweight was 6004 long tons, that is, the weight of the ship fully loaded, including the crew, cargo (6,000 tons), fuel, water and stores, less the weight of the ship when totally empty (4,000 tons), was 6,004 long tons. She could carry 6,000 long tons of coal. The Wyoming was built of yellow pine with 6" planking and there were 90 diagonal iron cross-bracings on each side.

You ain't heard nothing yet !!!!



fullywired

Thank you lic. captain asc.rudeboy!

As I said earlier I did read some of the uscg site. I happened to read quite a bit about what your saying. Thank you for you post and some good details about boats and seamanship. This is by far not my area of study. Mine (obviously) is astrophysics, cosmology, paleontology, and paleoclimateology.

Oh! And thank you for you services from being in the uscg!

How about you discovering atlantis or your friend discovering a super dino the size of a building? Comments. Hmm.

Thank you. With what you said in mind makes me believe more so story of the Ancient Babylonian, Gilgamesh. I highly suggest reading it sometime. He was a wealthy merchant and survived a huge flood by binding together a few ships. His cargo was traid goods: livestock, beer, grains, and other things. When supplies ran out he and his family started consuming his traid good that were to be delivered to others. Needless to say, when the waters receded and he found his home again he was greeted by many angry people that we was to deliver for and to. He was stripped of his title, wealth, and rights as a sought after excellent merchant and lord of the people.

I may have 1 or 2 details incorrect, it has been quite a while since I studied about Gilgamesh. But this is a fair basic summation.

Why do you dodge my questions?

This math is easy to debunk using a bit of common sense. THe math used is the OP suggests that fully grown adult animals would've been loaded on to the ark making it too heavy and unmanageable. However, it would've been more likely that young animals were the ones placed on this ark, which would have weighed considerably less and been manageable. These animals would then had been coming into sexual maturity upon leaving the ark so that they could multiply.

I'll show how this reduced the math significantly from what the OP suggests.

An adult African elephant weighs up to 15,000 lbs and a female weighs up to 8000 lbs. (23,000 lbs - THis would've been a lot of weight on the ark with just these two animals)

A baby African elephant weighs anywhere from 117 lbs to 330 lbs, with 232 lbs being the average. We'll take the average for both male and female. 232 x 2 = 464 lbs

So we've cut approximately 22,500 lbs from the OPs claims just off one animal and this is one of the larger animals that were on the ark. Do this with all the animals and it because very feasible.

This also cuts back on the space requirements the OP claims because smaller animals require less space.


Source for African elephant weights:

http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-elephant.html

Apparently you missed the post discussing the fact that even in their juvenile states many animals, particularly the mega fauna, are still dangerous creatures. Noah's ark never happened. Like many of the stories in the Torah, Noah's ark can be traced back to an earlier Babylonian story, i.e. the Epic of Gilgamesh. Given the size of the ark (and putting the weight limit aside for a moment) there is no way all the animals, even juveniles, could have crammed into that boat. You also have to factor in the food that would need to be consumed by Noah, his family, and all the animals for the duration of the flood. Its just not possible.

We can also look at the tree ring samples and the geological record. They both indicate that there never was a global flood. Local? Definitely. Global? Definitely not. Besides, no where in the Bible does God say to bring "juvenile" animals, he just says male and female. You're just interpreting scripture to benefit your view, not that I should be surprised by it.

Sure it happened.

If these "mega fauna" were contained in wooden cages how are you figuring they were dangerous? That's like going to the zoo and being afraid of the tigers in cages. You also have to remember that these animals most likely had an awareness they were surrounded by water which probably kept them more docile. Maybe the sound of waves kept them relaxed. Many people listen to CDs with sounds of waves to help them sleep. Animals act differently depending on their environment. People do this as well.

Models of the ark have been recreated that demonstrate that that animals could've fit nicely on the ark. Some animals may have even been in a state of hibernation. Furthermore, people/animals don't have to eat everyday to survive and water obviously wasn't a problem

If you look at things like the Epic of Gilgamesh, the you're just showing multiple accounts of humanity knowing about a flood which contributes to the fact.

Tree ring samples don't provide an exact science. I'm sure you know this.

Then answer my question! I posted it three times already. There is no way you could have missed it. But keep in mind, if you can't answer this, then you MUST concede that there was no global flood.

If there was a global flood, then how did the animals get to Australia and the Galapagos islands?

You're making a huge assumption that land masses were the same. However, they were most likely different.

In the account of Noah, we are told that God led the animals to the ark, so it would be logical to assume that God led the animals to where He wanted them to have their primary habitat after the flood before the land mass separated as it is today.

Not so much. Pangaea has been broken up for some 60 million years. If it was all still together only a few thousand years ago, the continents would be racing across the oceans. Sorry but your answer is no good. I hope that wasn't your best explanation.

One more point of note is that if all but two of every kind died, then the only way to see the diversity we have today is through evolution. So either you don't believe in the global flood and then for some reason don't accept evolution or you believe there was a global flood, and thus accept evolution. Which is it?

Sorry, I don't accept your claim of Pangea 60 million years ago. "Your answer is no good." My explanation fits. God led the animals to the ark, so of course He would lead them to the habitat He wanted them to reside in after the flood.


Also, you could see the diversity we see today if the genes were carried in the two of each kind God brought to the ark. Very simple.

....So what about whales, fish, plants, insects, bacteria, etc? I don't think Noah had fish tanks back then. And genetic diversity is limited through interbreeding, not expanded.

haha im not in Uncle Sams Confused GRoup,(uscg) but i am lic.by them to run boats in american water ways anything up to 100 tons (the weight of the boat not the cargo)



well if you have to add weight for the... +cages+ the extra space needed for the cages+the extra water to clean said cages (im pretty sure they didnt have fresh water or bige pumps back then=????math man add your answer here this would still make this ship massive,,,look at the size of the vessels we can produce with todays technology we couldnt build something capable of doing this,,,and all he had was hand tool.


annnnd if you take gimgamesh for a example to proove the flood,,it took three stocked vessles just to support just him and his family not every animal on the planet...even these giant tankers have to stop and get food at amost every port they visit because they cant carrie all the food and water needed to make journey from point A. to point B.,,,,and none of these trips take 40days and 40 nights. just these simple things make the ark a complete fairy tale,,the ark would have needed a fleet of vessels just playng the role of support and suplies....also how do you think he controled climate for warm blooded and cold blooded animals,muchless artic and tropical...i dont think he had heat rocks to keep the snakes warm at night,and how would the other animals keep cool,with out central air could you imagine how hot it would be with all those animals in one contained area,,no fresh air,,,hell almost every aimal would have died from disease just in the fecal matter alone,,,he didnt have the technology to handle any of thses situations...it couldnt be done it still cant be done today...he wouldnt have time in a day to feed all the animals,,what comes in must come out,,then to clean up after them...it would take longer then 40days and 40 nights just to prepare the food for each animal much less seperate it and start handing it out...these simple things when placed in a real worl situation show it couldnt have been done.