....So what about whales, fish, plants, insects, bacteria, etc? I don't think Noah had fish tanks back then. And genetic diversity is limited through interbreeding, not expanded.

haha im not in Uncle Sams Confused GRoup,(uscg) but i am lic.by them to run boats in american water ways anything up to 100 tons (the weight of the boat not the cargo)



well if you have to add weight for the... +cages+ the extra space needed for the cages+the extra water to clean said cages (im pretty sure they didnt have fresh water or bige pumps back then=????math man add your answer here this would still make this ship massive,,,look at the size of the vessels we can produce with todays technology we couldnt build something capable of doing this,,,and all he had was hand tool.


annnnd if you take gimgamesh for a example to proove the flood,,it took three stocked vessles just to support just him and his family not every animal on the planet...even these giant tankers have to stop and get food at amost every port they visit because they cant carrie all the food and water needed to make journey from point A. to point B.,,,,and none of these trips take 40days and 40 nights. just these simple things make the ark a complete fairy tale,,the ark would have needed a fleet of vessels just playng the role of support and suplies....also how do you think he controled climate for warm blooded and cold blooded animals,muchless artic and tropical...i dont think he had heat rocks to keep the snakes warm at night,and how would the other animals keep cool,with out central air could you imagine how hot it would be with all those animals in one contained area,,no fresh air,,,hell almost every aimal would have died from disease just in the fecal matter alone,,,he didnt have the technology to handle any of thses situations...it couldnt be done it still cant be done today...he wouldnt have time in a day to feed all the animals,,what comes in must come out,,then to clean up after them...it would take longer then 40days and 40 nights just to prepare the food for each animal much less seperate it and start handing it out...these simple things when placed in a real worl situation show it couldnt have been done.

Why would Noah need a fishtank? Whales and fish can swim ya know.

Plants that were uprooted would've floated and then the seedlings would've been fertilized. Insects are rather strong and resilent. I'm sure they could've easily settled on floating plant life.

If the ark was built with several levels, and there were mesh beams beneath the animals then the waste from the animals would've took care of itself. Kind of how they manage animal waste in a lot of pet stores. It falls beneath the animals so it's easier to manage. These kind of systems are used today.

So mesh floors are supposed to support an elephant? Or a dinosaur? Yeah, I don't think so... And where in the Bible does it state the ark was built with several layers?

Please see post #42 about elephants.

And I'm suggesting mesh patterned flooring made of wood that the waste falls through. Where the wood beneath the mesh slants downwards so it falls to a lower level, making it easily manageable. It would make sense that a large ship would have several levels.

If the ark was built with several levels, and there were mesh beams beneath the animals then the waste from the animals would've took care of itself. Kind of how they manage animal waste in a lot of pet stores. It falls beneath the animals so it's easier to manage. These kind of systems are used today.

Well what about dinosaurs??? They're incredibly huge even as babies. Bracheosaurs baby? 1. LOTS of poo, and 2. Very big. Plus, these cages would have had to have been incredibly small to fit all of the animals in the ark. Can anyone say animal cruelty?

mesh beams what haha,man i dont mean to laugh but to give a answer without thinking it out dosnt help

for one the poop dosent just magically dissapear because it goes down a drain...for one it would have to be washed down the drain and once it went down the drainor gratting (it would have to be drainage sections the entire floor couldnt be made out of mesh because it wouldnt support the weight,and they didnt have the technology to make large metal grating back then anyway,,,no welding machins and all that good stuff) it would have to go somewhere, then the weigt of the cargo would increase daily,,,,causing the arks stability to be greatly affeected....and if all the poop went into a containment unit it would then need pumps and piping to get it off the ship,and a unit to turn all that solid into a workable liquid...more weight,more room and more technology that he didnt have and wouldnt have for a long long time.....

Dinosaurs right out of the eggs would've been relatively small. Studies show the eggs to be around 6 to 17 inches long. Any dinosaurs that were taken on the ark were likely babies.

Study showing small size of dinosaur eggs:

http://www.stonecompany.com/dinoeggs/study/eggstudy.html

You can cry animal cruely, but I don't think this is anything worse than kennels or humane societies. These animals were eventually released and allowed to repopulate.

Again, please refer to post #42 on size of animals. I used an example of an African elephant and demonstrated how baby animals would've made a significant difference. It would've also made sense because these animals would've reached sexual maturity upon leaving the ark.

If the heaviest animal was a 240 lbs elephant then heavy wood beams would've been just fine. I'm not talking about metal grating, but rather a mesh pattern made of wood. I'm sure Noah's family was working hard on the ark to take care of things. You wouldn't need a pump. Maybe they had something like a wood squigee that looked something like a push broom and they could push it out a window at a ground level on the ark above sea level. Remember it took many years to build the ark. I'm sure it was well put together. It's not like it was put together in a week with no consideration for animal care.

It's still cruel to keep animals in small cages for 40 days and 40 nights. It's just not right. How would you like to be kept in a cage for that long? Anyway, there are millions of different kinds of animals (not including all of the animals from the fossil records), so the ark wouldn't have been nearly big enough to carry all of them. Plus, you have plants, insects, fishes, bacteria, etc that aren't even mentioned in the flood story, so if Noah kept them on the ark it wouldn't have been big enough either. Plus, food, water, and excrement do weigh a substantial amount, so the ark wouldn't have been able to float. Boats that big that are made of wood break in the water. And apparently some people did think the ark was rectangle shaped. http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/noahark.html Pity, really....

Yet.... there's no proof of any of this. You can't just say "well, I'm sure they cared about the animals and knew how to build a boat able to float with all that weight and need for room." There's no evidence to suggest that at all. Plus, if the cages were just made of wood the animals could have broken out of the cages and eaten eaten other. That's why there's not any wooden cages in zoos.

Animals were brought into the ark by "kind", so it was thousands, not millions.

Fish swim, so there would've been no reason for them to be in the ark.

Scale models have already been produced that demonstrate that it would've been able to carry the animals and float.

You're acting like the animals had no sense that they were in a boat surround by water. THey were probably calmed by the sound of waves. Many might have even been in a state of hibernation. Many animals aren't accustomted to eating everyday.

There are wooden pens in zoos. However, wood beams aren't the most feasible material for holding animals so spectators can view them. That's why materials such as metal wire and plexiglas are used. If you go to a fair though, you'll see a lot of wooden cages and pens to hold everything from rabbits to llamas.

If the heaviest animal was a 240 lbs elephant then heavy wood beams would've been just fine. I'm not talking about metal grating, but rather a mesh pattern made of wood. I'm sure Noah's family was working hard on the ark to take care of things. You wouldn't need a pump. Maybe they had something like a wood squigee that looked something like a push broom and they could push it out a window at a ground level on the ark above sea level. Remember it took many years to build the ark. I'm sure it was well put together. It's not like it was put together in a week with no consideration for animal care.

You're acting like the animals had no sense that they were in a boat surround by water. THey were probably calmed by the sound of waves. Many might have even been in a state of hibernation. Many animals aren't accustomted to eating everyday.

I don't think you have had much experience with animals. They would not have been calmed by the waves, many would have been out of their minds with stress/anxiety. Would have been like a RSPCA nightmare, animal hoarder scenario. Some species may have gone into shock and died from the experience.

you are realy simplifying the amount of animals and poop they would have to deal with daily,,,,the the weight of waste being pushed from one side of the ark to another would cause it to lean,,we arnt talking 20 to 30 animals were talking about pairs of every animal in the world,,,,you cant even begin to imagine how much work it is....your not taking into acount the displacment and where you can put a door to push out poop,,the math matics to figure out the structually sound placment,where the door wouldnt weaken the hull,and take on huge abount of water,,and only if the water was calm could you open a door to puch stuff out,,one good wave and its over with...plus your have to realize a ship pitches back and forth and leans in all kind of directions when its not in tottaly calm water,,the waste would be going everywhere,,unless it was in a containment unit...

at best you would have to build a multy layerd floor,with a drainage or trough to go somewhere,,,,and have it steep enough where the movment of the ship wouldnt affect the flow of the waste,,,,you cant have that much liquid and waste just moving willie nilly this is how ships roll over...


think about this think about the amount of people it takes to take care of people on a cruise ship and all they are doing is feeding and mixing drinks for people...how many people do you think i twould take to feed,clean and care for A PAIR OF EVERY ANIMAL IN THE WORLD...NOW YOU HAVE TO FEED THE WORKERS...A ARMY OF WORKERS WOULD TAKE A ARMY OF SUPPLIES JUST FOR THEM...your making it sound like its a one or 2 man job just cleaning up the poop would be non stop work alone,with shifts of workers....

Sorry, please show your math then if you think you can explain it better mathematically. Thanks.

I don't think you have had much experience with animals. They would not have been calmed by the waves, many would have been out of their minds with stress/anxiety. Would have been like a RSPCA nightmare, animal hoarder scenario. Some species may have gone into shock and died from the experience.

WWf, that's just common sense..... No math needed....

God led the animals to the ark, and I'm sure God made sure the animals were taken care of just fine. No animals would've went into shock.

Source for those models? Don't forget you need food, water, and care equipment for all of those animals as well. And there are millions of different species of organisms. It most certainly would not be "thousands". Source for this?

Well God says we should sacrifice sheep to him... And couldn't he have just made new animals instead of going through all the trouble? It's not a practical move on his part. And it's been shown that this happens to small animals and birds under stress, and since God gives us free will, they had the free will to get stressed out and die, which would have been God's fault anyway because he created the situation that made them die.

For all we know God put them to sleep so they were perfectly relaxed. Seriously, none of us were there so we don't know every exact detail as to how things happened. Obviously animals survived and were able to get off the ark and procreate. If not, we wouldn't have any birds or land animals today.

Or maybe there was no flood.

Here's an article written on caring for the animals from one perspective. There are others written as well.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/a...for-the-animals

Animals were brought into the ark by "kind", so it was thousands, not millions.

Fish swim, so there would've been no reason for them to be in the ark.

Scale models have already been produced that demonstrate that it would've been able to carry the animals and float.

Sorry, I don't accept your claim of Pangea 60 million years ago. "Your answer is no good." My explanation fits. God led the animals to the ark, so of course He would lead them to the habitat He wanted them to reside in after the flood.


Also, you could see the diversity we see today if the genes were carried in the two of each kind God brought to the ark. Very simple.

You should be more respectful of other peoples beliefs than to make such comments.

You should be more respectful of other peoples beliefs than to make such comments.

WWF, only one problem: No where in the Bible does it say ANY of those methods were implemented. Therefore, we cannot merely assume that these things were there. There's no textual evidence, so we CANNOT assume those things were really there. We just can't.

THe most we can do is look at what might have happened because obviously none of us were there.

It's not like you aren't disrespectful to other people's beliefs, WWF. Don't be a hypocrite. (and yes, I can prove where you've been insulting)

Have I said anything disrespectful to you in this thread?

The Bible says that all animals were destroyed. So this includes fish. You don't have even a basic understanding of wildlife do you? If you did you would realize that freshwater fish only live in freshwater and saltwater fish only live in saltwater. Very few tolerate both. So no the fish wouldn't be just find and dandy. If all the new water was freshwater, the saltwater fish die.


The only thing your explanation fits is your world view. Nothing more. So there were two turtles on the ark representing the 'kind.' Now tell me. Were they sea turtles or tortoises? Because one way or the other one of them had to EVOLVE into what is now seen today. The tortoises would have to to evolve flippers from their legs, thus evolution.

And about Pangaea, the point remains that if Pangaea was together a few thousand years ago, we would CLEARLY see the continents drifting, but we don't. How do you explain this?


Then don't try to pass your beliefs off as facts, and not expect them to get scrutinized.

You don't have a basic understanding of wildlife do you? Even if the saltwater of freshwater fish died, their eggs could've been preserved and hatched later on when their environment was renewed by God. They would've been preserved perfectly in the eggs. No reason for them to be put in the ark when they're already housed.

I wasn't there to view the turtles/tortoises. These are also animals that could've been kept in eggs and hatched after the flood.

Where is your evidence that the continents would have to be drifting?

Not in this thread, but if I do remember correctly you dedicated an entire thread to ripping apart my beliefs! Carpe diem!

You should be respectful of other members belief. Do I need to quote from the forum rules?

No, WWF, the salt would have killed the eggs as well.

How do you figure?

You're also making an assumption that their would've been a high saline concentration, when there could've been primarily fresh water.

God obviously could've set the conditions how He wanted them for each kind of animals to survive.

For all we know God put them to sleep so they were perfectly relaxed. Seriously, none of us were there so we don't know every exact detail as to how things happened. Obviously animals survived and were able to get off the ark and procreate. If not, we wouldn't have any birds or land animals today.

The Bible says that all animals were destroyed. So this includes fish. You don't have even a basic understanding of wildlife do you? If you did you would realize that freshwater fish only live in freshwater and saltwater fish only live in saltwater. Very few tolerate both. So no the fish wouldn't be just find and dandy. If all the new water was freshwater, the saltwater fish die.

If there was primarily fresh water, all of the salt water eggs would have died. Octopus eggs require constant attention and temperature monitoring or else they'll die. ( http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/2003...503A0081021.php ) They're incredibly fragile. I'm fairly certain other fish's eggs are equally or somewhat as tempermental, otherwise the fishes wouldn't need to constantly keep watch of them and tend to them (other than to keep predators away). Just saying "well God could have made the earth this way" doesn't hold any water in this discussion because it cannot be proven at all.

And saying God didn't make the earth this way can't be proven as well. God kept the animals in the way He determined necessary and now we have all the animals we do today. We don't know every process God used to keep the animals that weren't on the ark, but they were certainly kept so they could procreate after the flood.

Glad you have given up pretending that there is any practical way it could have happened. God just magic'd it so it was OK all round.

If there was primarily fresh water, all of the salt water eggs would have died. Octopus eggs require constant attention and temperature monitoring or else they'll die. ( http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/2003...503A0081021.php ) They're incredibly fragile. I'm fairly certain other fish's eggs are equally or somewhat as tempermental, otherwise the fishes wouldn't need to constantly keep watch of them and tend to them (other than to keep predators away). Just saying "well God could have made the earth this way" doesn't hold any water in this discussion because it cannot be proven at all.

I wasn't there. I don't know how everything happened. A lot is just guessing. Just like many things that have happened in the past.

Actually, yes we can, but I'm not getting into that discussion with you.

Oh please

You really should read the forum rules about being respectful of other people's beliefs.

Just guessing doesn't get us anywhere, WWF. And we use science to determine what may have happened in the past, which is a lot more accurate then "just guessing".