Well, amazingly enough, I decided to make a post here.

As we all know, this will draw Skeptics and believers alike. I am not a biologist, nor am I a scientist. I have made my observation and I have been reading up, so bear with me.


Throughout time , man has grown accordingly to adapt his environment. Bigfoot, yes, it is a controversial topic. It displays characteristics that of both a bipedal humanoid and roughly, an ape. Scientists have currently suggested that Robust Australopithecines, a descendant of Gracile Australopithecine, a hominid that shared some characteristics that of ape and
Human, could possibly fit the criteria of Bigfoot.

First, to understand how Bigfeet were spotted around the world, we have to look into their possible origins. Ardipithecus, was a very early ancestor of present day man. It shared many traits with the African great ape, and was often debated to belong to the Chimpanzee branch. However, it was stated to be a proto-human due to the similarity of teeth with Australopithecus .Hominids expanded over the African continent over time. By roughly 3.7 million years ago , Ardipithecus had evolved to Gracile Australopithecine, and were heavily concentrated in Northern and Eastern Africa.

Eventually, Gracile Australopithecine became the Robust Australopithecines, and proceeded to grow outward, as shown in this picture.



Wolves and Dogs have successfully created a hybrid. I Hypothesize that an Early form of Homo Erectus and Robust Australopithecines successfully created a Hybrid of moderate height that had mostly ape like features. While its cousins evolved, the result of the breeding rendered it drastically less intelligent, and more or less, primarily instinctual.

There have been hypothesis’s that some of them killed off each other.

I believe, that as the hominids grew into Homo Neanderthalensis, they became more aware of their cousins. And with that, territorial battles ensued, and that they were killed mostly out of fear by crude weapons, like spears. As the last ice age came on, the Bigfeet had been victims of a pre-historical genocide and had grown thick fur coats thanks to their ape characteristics. Soon, they migrated to Asia. They found content within the Himalayan mountains were favored by natural selection, and adapted to the environment. Hence, the white fur and the Yeti.

As resources ran out at the end of the ice age, some of them instinctively searched for more food, and crossed over the land bridge, spreading through North America. As they adapted to their new home, their coats turned to a dark brown color, to blend with the trees in the forests they found safety in. Early Indian Tribes, I believe competed with them for land and food, which led to the slaughtering of the Bigfeet , and which pushed them back into the northern land, in the forests of Canada and North western America. As this would have been merely centuries ago, the populations are centered mainly in the deepest parts of large forests, and are low at that.


My sources are:
http://www.stanford.edu/~harryg/protected/chp18.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranthropus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracile_australopithecine
http://www.onelife.com/evolve/manev.html

You might want to site your sources. That looks copied.

Thank you! I almost forgot! Also, I barley copied anything, I got the names, and about three facts. That's about it.

Very fasinating, it makes sence as well. We see many species who's coats change color to adapt to their surroundings, and a Bigfoot doing that would fit the varied differences that exist between bigfoot, sasquatches, and yetis. I am a complete Bigfoot believer - we have more evidence for them than any other cryptid. (When I say Bigfeet, I mean Sasquatches, Skunk Apes, and Yetis as well) It would be interesting to think of Indians and Bigfeet battling against each other.

To me it made the most sense, as early forms of Hominids migrated, and even spread out to different islands, and evolved to the environment. An example of this would be the the Homo Floresiensis. And yes, Seeing Native Americans and them in a fight would be interesting. But, the Bigfeet would have been killed due to the sheer amount of Indians, their superior intelligence and general weaponry. The colonizing people and the deterioration of the forests to build cities and homes also explained why they are so little.

Yes, it would all fit perfectly. The poor Bigfeet. If I was one I would be pissed off that hardly anybody believed in me and everyone kept trying to kill me throughout time. Just a quick question - do you know of any Native American tales or mentions of a Bigfoot?

Edit -

""Here in the Northwest, and west of the Rockies generally, Indian people regard Bigfoot with great respect. He is seen as a special kind of being, because of his obvious close relationship with humans. Some elders regard him as standing on the "border" between animal-style consciousness and human-style consciousness, which gives him a special kind of power. (It is not that Bigfoot's relationship to make him "superior" to other animals; in Indian culture, unlike western culture, animals are not regarded as "inferior" to humans but rather as "elder brothers" and "teachers" of humans. But tribal cultures everywhere are based on relationship and kinship; the closer the kinship, the stronger the bond. Man Indian elders in the Northwest refuse to eat bear meat because of the bear's similarity to humans, and Bigfoot is obviously much more similar to humans than is the bear. As beings who blend the "natural knowledge" of animals with something of the distinctive type of consciousness called "intelligence" that humans have, Bigfoot is regarded as a special type of being.""

Source : http://www.bfro.net/legends/

Also, another example of a Bigfoot like creature would be the Windigo, whose legend belongs to the Algonquian speaking Native Americans. Who are located in a small part of North-Western USA, parts of Central-America, North-Eastern Coastal areas of the USA, and Primarily in The North-Eastern part of Canada.

Source: http://dinojoe.8m.com/crypto/windigo.html

Thank you, I appreciate it. ^^

No problem. It is pretty interesting to have different sightings of a similar creature across the world. Well, in my opinion.

Nicely formulated.

But the hypothesis gets us no closer to knowing whether or not they are really out there.

I sure hope its something we find out before I kick the bucket! Not knowing if there was a JFK conspiracy doesn't bother me, I just want to know if Bigfoot is real!

Thank you.

Well, in order to get to them, we have to determine what it is. Most species hold specific traits, such has height, length of limbs, hair color, amount of hair, and behavior. If it is a combination of species, we could put together the traits of the two and after gaining a basic concept of its demeanor, approach it. They could be violent and territorial. Or they could be violent, and aggressive, especially if it was a female...as it would be protecting potential young.

We will find the answer in time. But be patient.

Do you realize that in the long history of pre-humans, the fact is there were most often more than one species of hominid existing simultaneously?

What species of dog/wolf hybrid are you talking about. They occur, but there's no substantial, nor even meager population of such.

Respectfully, your theory is wild conjecture, at best.

Yes, I do realize that. And, I know that often they would fight each other.

I was not referring to one specific Wolf-Dog hybrid, just the species in general. There actually are three established hybrids, and one in progress. They would be Saarlooswolfhond, Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, Kunming Wolfdog. Currently, the Timber Wolf-dog Shepherd is being made. If if they are not in a large population, they exist nonetheless. But , with the lack of restrictions, it would make sense that Bigfeet would create a relatively large population in the beginning.

Which of your red squiggly lines best represents the migrations of the Ted and Code Share subscribers?

This theory does not explain the existance of either ther Pendek or Yeti. A large portion of the legend. I agree that if such a creature did exist, Robust Australopithecines would be a likely candidate, especially considering the possible connection with Homo habilis, but the fossil record does not indicate that progression, to date it shows Paranthropous leaving the tree about 1.2 million years ago. Shame, I always liked the representations of Paranthropus Boisei, he seems a gentle giant.

Don,t beleive it i saw him at a pura cup match terrible, terrible conduct thats all im going to say

i beleive bigfoot is human or was.
we tend to exile those who are different. mal-formity or mentally challenged.

for example if you took every autistic child and threw em in the woods. i bet there would be enough to create a breeding population. considering this is where the exiles end up.

question is how old is the species. Sasquatch is about 150yrs of reports

I am led to believe in Bigfoot, but not that he is really all that different from a baseline human. It could very well be a mutation in a small Native American population that creates Gigantism and the hairyness.

I would also point out that there have been reports of "large wild men" through out history. And that there is speculated to be more people alive right now then all the dead humans in all of known history (Or is that an Urban Myth). So even if the mutation that causes someone to develop into a BigFoot was one in a billion, they would be statistically likely to be alive now then at any other time in known history (What, say 50,000 years.).

The increasing interbreding of formerly isolated global populations and the ease of currently traveling the world could lead to this BigFoot gene moving around the world.

The question is why would someone with this BigFoot condition always hide out in the woods????

That is actually quite interesting...it gets you thinking.....

Well, why would they hide in the woods? They wouldn't want to be cast out by humanity, probably.

I think this is a well researched thread, and kudos for that.

However a few sticking points always crop up that stretch many theories apart. You see, many theories do not fit the pattern of the sighting.

1. The lack of clothing and the animal-eque features of the sightings suggests minimal intelligence. However the ability to escape detection with technological devices requires a great deal of intelligence, you see the largest percentage of the sightings are 'chance encounters'. To escape detection on purpose is one thing, but to get 'sloppy' and be seen by hikers or campers is another. It would appear that if they have the ability to conceal themselves in small unihabited areas (sometimes in woodland among largely inhabited US counties) then the sightings are not so by 'chance', it would appear they 'allow' themselves to be seen. Much like the UFO phenomenon; on one hand we have witnesses who testify that they have the ability to make themselves undetectable, and on the other hand mountains of photographs exist to help prove their existence. One would be likely to think that the sightings are intentional.

2. It has never existed on the fossil record. It is one thing to chart the evolution and migration of man through over 3 million years of history, but to suggest another form of human exists that is not present on the fossil record either suggests the creature has never existed or it not only bury's its dead, but can completely pulverise the bone fragments and remain undetectable. A Laughable proposal at best.

3. Some of the sightings are truly bizzare and accompany many other types of manifestation. Something overlooked by a lot of the cryptozoological community; when you blindly go in search of Bigfoot as a terrestrial animal, unimportant evidence (at the time) can be gleaned over:

- Roachdale, Indiana 1972. Randy and Lou Rogers were disturbed one night by a loud banging on the walls of their home. This occured several nights in a row. Soon a six foot 'Bigfoot' was described limping away from the scene. For the next two to three weeks it returned, letting it's prescence be known with a foul rotting garbage smell. Mrs Rogers would leave it food (it stopped the banging when done), sometimes it would stay to watch Mrs Rogers through the windows of her kitchen. It left no traces of its existence, could run at incredible speeds, made no sound when it passed through undergrowth and sometimes was transparent.

- One day after the sighting of the 'Flatwoods' monster in Flatwoods W.VA in 1952, a young man was driving home through Braxton when a 7 foot tall hairy Bigfoot-esque creature suddenly appeared in front of his car. He slammed on the brakes and the creature calmy approached the front of his car and began to tap the windscreen. He put his foot on the accelerator hitting the creature before speeding off to the nearest police station. A 'V' shape was burned into the grill of his car (something that you will notice was included in the 'Mothman Prophecies' movie) and apart from a few overturned stones, no evidence of its existence was found at the scene the next morning.

- Australia, Gold Coast Hinterland, 1980 (A spot notorious for Yowie sightings). Three friends were camping along Tallebudgera creek when they spotted several hovering lights in the skies above. Soon, from the beach a large Bigfoot-esque creature approached the campers and attacked them. One man was cut on his arm, and the campers fled in terror.

4. Supposed Bigfoot inhabitable zones actually pool a lot of magentic interference. For instance here in Australia both the Blue Mountains and the Gold Coast Hinterland are interconnected to larger mountain range systems. On magnetic maps (available from your local State Department of Natural resources website) they are indicated as areas with high concerntrations of magnetic interference. While investigating the Mothman flap of 1967, John Keel noticed that West Virginia (home to a large number of bigfoot and other assorted Cryptid sightings) was dotted with magentic hot spots. This shows either a selective habitation (evidence of great intelligence) or the fact that Bigoot is just as much nonsense as the Mothman, Lizardman and UFO sightings that have plagued states such as West Virginia.

there are cases where bigfoot attempts to abduct people. this might explain its russian name Kaptar.

infact my theory was that like dwarfs. bigfoot is an outcast gene type. say too big. living in the woods would have led to hairiness. man has also "hunted" giants for a while they may be only preserved by the inaccesible reachs of mountain terrain.

That's probably about the smartest Sasquatch theory I've heard so far. I'm not sure if early humans would have been able to breed with Austrolopithicis, though.

From Boisei? I find that hard to believe, he generally sits in a corner, eats roots and leaves. What a gentle.....squatch?

Sometime tubers too..................

Gold Coast Hinterland. My part of the world!!!! It is beautifullllll tooo. I just love living there. Tallebudgera Creek? I wonder if the were down the Saltwater end or up at the freshwater end. Do you have a link? I'd like to attempt to pinpoint the spot. There are some really nice walks that way, the old Mill is down that way, a lovely walk, but do take care if visiting, I know a person bitten by a white tailed spider on that track. I have never checked the magnetic interferance, although I think I might owe you a beer, it may explain the tremendous trouble I have with my goto technology on my telescope, I like to skywatch.
I am lucky enough to live near the peak of one of the GC Hinterland mountains, and like to wander much of the area when time permits in search of any evidence. I would avoid the Ormeau reports as it is quite built up these days, very little bushland remains, it is right in the Brisbane / Gold Coast corridor. The M1 divides it. The likelyhood of a Biff hiding in the dustbins is quite a stretch. I actually travel through Ormeau twice a day for work. Sadly, Google Earth does not reflect this. At last look, the maps seem to be at least 5 years old.
The websites are woefully outdated. One set of Directions will lead you to a shopping centre in Ormeau, the other will lead you to a bus depot in Molendinar. The only place I can see such a population would exist is now deep in the mountian range, which should make tracking easier as the catchement areas provide water bodies. No doubt a staple requirement. The only evidence I could get excited about was some unusual holes dug in the ground, it turns out this is the result of Bandicoots digging up curl grubs. One time I was wandering bushland, I found out a week or so later that someone had dropped their other half in a shallow grave about 30 meters from where I was wandering. Clagriba reserve. Been giving that one a miss lately.....
Bit harder now, we have had some reasonable rain, so many areas may be holding water, but it has been dry a few weeks now. A drought and a water supply I feel should flush out any creature like this. With the Hinterland, heavy development is closing many routes off, I plan to keep watching the local water reserves for signs and triangulate the few escape routes and search for tracks.

Yes, all the believers, it really is me. One does not have to believe in order to retain an open mind Besides, the treks are very healthy and quite embracing, I would reccomend Yowie tracking to anyone! And I carry 2 cams with Anti Shake! - Motion and still.

haha I think I have spoken to you about this before, i'm over at Palm Beach...just off 19th Avenue to be precise.

Your analysis is really impressive, I have been meaning to take a wander out that way for a while. And you are right about the Gold Coast growth, I find it very hard to believe that any yowie population can exist in the foothills out there with so much expansion. There seems to be a Westfield shopping centre all over the place now.

One night I might take a drive out to Mt Warning, I have been studying Keels work quite closely and i'm keen to see if his theories on high elevations, times, dates and UFO's are correct. Apprently quantitatively the best time to see a UFO is on the Highest point of a magnetic fault line (Old volcano's would be a great place to start!) at 8PM on either a Wednesday or a Saturday. Actually Loren Coleman took his theories even further and extended that to the Bigfoot phenomenon.

Apparently the best time of year for all cryptid sightings is July (Donald Keyhoe also noted that UFO sightings are at their highest during this period), especially around July 24 (St Johns day). A few cryptozoologists have made simiar observations. That might help you figure out the best time to go on your hikes.

Actually, yu are right, I believe we have discussed this before

If heading out that way, I would go North West of Hinze Dam, between the new developments around Upper Coomera to the corridor leading to Beaudesert. I think that might be something of a Bottleneck if anything resides in the area. I went past the Coomera end of Old Coach road last night, darned if a Woolies Shopping centre didn't grow there overnight! I have been keeping an eye out on the smaller waterholes between Mt Nathan and Mt Tambourine, but want to have a good look North West of Hinze Dam soon as he opportunity arises. Far as I know, there is a Westfield due to start construction around Coomera Trainstation in the next 2-3 years as well. That will have that whole foothill area reasonable well covered.

That makes sense on the Cryptid Sightings here, as that would be mid winter, cold, little natural food and typically drought time. It would force them out into the open to search for resources. Very fine snippet there, I shall try and plan my treks around that.
I would be most interested on the UFO observation timing as well. I shall Google Keels work on this. I have a celestron that I can mount a still camera too. It is great up in the mountains, I get some very dark skies, a real treat for nightviewing. I will also have to see if I can find weather the ranges on the Hinterland are volcanic or not. Going by the soil, I would think not? I know many just over the border are, as is the Toowoomba range but the Tambourine area does not seem to have very rich soil - mostly quartz.

Hmm I must of gotten Boisei confused with the Yowie or maybe Richie Bernau

ROFL - I will bet it was Richie!!!!! He gets confused with Bosei all the time, giving him a bad name!

Heres a question could Yowie be some form of Marsupail?

I would not think so. Fossil evidence, first announced by researcher M.J. Spechtt in 1982, does not support the once-common belief that marsupials were a primitive forerunner of the placental mammals, both main branches of the mammal tree appear to have evolved at around the same time, toward the end of the Mesozoic era. I do not know of any primate marsupials so there has been no precedent that I am aware of. Evolution generally leaves one. Cercopithecinae's can have cheek pouches, but that is a close as it gets I think.

It is truly a controversial topic, huh? Well, the fact is, it is only a hypothesis. I believe I may have a general concept of how they branched off into the world. If they were at least smarter than the ancestor of the Homo Floresiensis , that would explain how they reached Australia. As the ancestors of the Floresiensis were able to make boats and make it across an ocean. So I believe that they would be of at least minimal intelligence, and were able to comprehend and navigate the ocean.

The possibility of why they are not able to be tracked could be provided by the proposal, that if they were primarily instinctual, and at least as smart as I stated above, they could evade us easily. That, and they could have completely superior senses. So they could hear and smell us before we got near them, and thus flee. Some of the "supposed" sightings could be that they did not consider the people threats. As for the attacks, if at least one of them is real...it could possibly be a female. In some species, the Female is larger, and more aggressive than the males. If a person intruded into territory that held young..with their superior senses and intelligence, they could spot them, and create a primal ambush..which would be why in some accounts never describe the presence of the "Bigfoot" before the initial attack. Just ideas...

i still say a tribe of outcasts and exiles is the better explanation. especially for australia. this also answers the bones question.

the "human" answer means it has substantial breeding pop just abduct some people to fill the genepool.

Although this is only a hypothesis, again this falls down in several points...

1. If you were to plot humanities migration from Africa, you would notice it didn't take a matter of months, it took 30,000 years. If the patterns of these 'Bigfoot' were the same, then existence of their habitation would be present along similar migration routes.

2. To 'make a boat' requires a great deal of intelligence, suggesting an organised society. You don't have an organised society in history that can simply escape detection on the fossil record....that is delving into 'Atlantian' territory.

3. Where did they sail these boats from? If they followed similar migrations as indigenous Australia, then they would have had to come through South East Asia. Again, requiring several thousand years and a large impact felt on the local environments. They couldn't have just 'sailed' from Asia to Australia, because presumably they wouldn't have known where they were going. It would have been a slow laborious process. Australia was unknown to the west until 1642, however indigenous Australia stretches back 40,000 years. There is more than enough time for a 'Bigfoot' impact to be felt in Australia, yet like everywhere else in the world, it doesn't exist.

I am not denying the sightings, I have at my disposal thousands of sightings in resource books. However, I am really starting to think that the 'Ultra-terrestrial' theory holds a lot of weight.

Where would humanity cast them? Probably the woods.
I don't buy this at all.

1. I didn't even say it took months? I didn't even specify any length of time.

2. Yes, it does take a reasonable amount. Also, they didn't have organized societies back then, only nomadic clans.

3. Again, did I say, "They built boats and sailed directly to Australia in a matter of a month." No, I suggested that they would need a reasonable amount of intelligence to navigate. To navigate the ocean does not necessarily always mean to follow a course. It would mean in the way it was used..to actually survive on the ocean and reach a unknown destination if not without low casualties. Well, do you absolutely know the way they thought? No. The Australian version of Bigfoot the Yowie lives in remote mountainous or forested regions. Where are the Cities in Australia...? Well, obviously not concentrated in the outback? Or on a mountain at that.


"
Where would humanity cast them? Probably the woods.
I don't buy this at all. "

Well, for one, if they existed in a world where our close ancestors feared their indifference, competed with them, and we were smarter, with weapons...they would have been killed and pushed back in the woods. So yes, probably the woods. And why? Because if they held some intelligence, they would steer clear for reasons, as they could reason to an extent possibly.

I like this theory ,shall be worthy of further study thanks for including the links..

I think you missed the points Syntax was making.

1 - The time frame was not in question, the trail that any inhabitant existing in this time frame must have left is absent.
2 - The intelligence and resources to make a boat in the time period required a group effort. Being nomadic or stationary is irrelevant, level of understanding of one's surrounding environment is required, and this is not relfected in history at all. To make that journey, some evidence would remain.
3 - Once again, such a migration needs to leave impact evidence. Like middens or tools or something. Anything. All sapiens left traces of origin, how can this primate not only hide it's remains, but also it's history? Can't be done. Not without a single fatality which would leave us some sort of record. Nothing exists. We know that Indigenous Australians arrived. Australians are recognized to have arrived between 70,000 and 40,000 years ago, though the lower end of this range (50,000 BC) has wider acceptance. Homo Florensis didn't manage to escape us either. We have a good record of every living thing, yet one species manages to stay covert?

There are cities in outback Australia and on mountains. never heard of Alice Springs? or Toowoomba? In addition, if you read the reports, this is not where the alleged sightings come from. The locations given, if tracked will lead you to a bus station or shopping centre. It is quite amusing that so much of the outside world see's Oz as this little backwater place like that shown in "Crocodile Dundee".

How could we develop weapons, not only before a creature with apparently equal or more intelligence, and how could they not pick up on the concept and design their own? They can escape a camera trap but cannot get the concept of making a spear straight?

Nothing so daming as to evidence against as the bones debate. There is no answer to that question.

PS Underlined word are links.

you put it far more eloquently then I ever could.

It makes you realise why the scientific community turns their nose up at the prospect of bigfoot. Purely because from a Natural history point of view, it has never existed.

I apologise if my comments seemed like a personal attack, I was actually being broad on the subject, postulating.

Actually when you look at the concept of the 'society', in this day and age we judge them to be based on their scientific or technological merits. However in many ways I would consider ants or bees to live in organised societies, therefore primitive man (who was actually far from primitive) lived in very organised hunter gatherer societies.

The ability to form together and work as a single unit was the corner stone of civilization. Large family units banded together to form tribes (we can see this becoming apparent by the early stone age - a concept still carried over into the Bronze age - Tribus even become the latin name for individuals included on a rural census), one of the main causes of Neanderthal man's quick withdrawl into the iberian peninsula and lower france.

presumably the concept of the thread is to outline the possibility that Cro-magnon man's rapid expansion could also have lead to the demise of a 'bigfoot' Homo offshoot. However the illogical scattering of the sightings (North America - Nepal - Canada - Australia and even South America) suggests that this species would probably have been a far more advanced and dominant species than any other form of human life to migrate such a massive distance.

unfortunately that is not correct when examining the progression of man's natural history.

These 'Bigfoot' simply don't exist on the fossil record.

i dont think the hoax explanation holds any water or merit, even though we know it exists. im surprised no one has kicked the crap out of these losers. we should consider the possibility of a unmisidentifiable animal

Although the hypothesis is (admittedly) speculation and has no scientific evidence supporting it, at least its not based on wild fantasy, delusion, and purposeful misrepresentation. Unfortunately, thats what I've come to expect from many threads in this forum.