If you believe that God (a creator) exsist, what was/is the purpose for the creation?

Well, the obvious answer seems to be that God (a creator) chose to create.

Why do you ask? Do you have a specific question/subject in mind?
Karlis

Love, experience, and continuation of the same.
Expansion in to infinity.

Love Omnaka

Hi Karlis, thanks for your responds. Specific... Do you believe the creator (God) had an intentional purpose for creation (the universe, humans...everything) if so, what do believe that purpose to be?

Reason : Each micro seconds looking for a "Change"

Omnaka, thank you so much for your reply/input, 'expansion into infinity', that gives my mind a stretch!
'Many blessings

Thank you, Jak

"Change", that's the only surety I can find, when I strip away everything else I have learned...at least I can now believe that I have another starting point to build again, but how do you build on constant change?

If -- and that is a big "if" -- you believe the Bible, then the answer is that God created Mankind, to create a God Family, from Mankind.

Proof for my outrageous reply?
* Kind begets kind.
* God created Man in God's likeness (kind).
* Those who are begotten as children of God may call God "Abba" -- meaning, they may call on God as their literal Father.
* In Scriptures, children of God are heirs with Christ, and co-heirs of the Universe.

Crazy idea, is it not?
Not something that churches teach, is this?
= But ... that's what the Bible Scriptures contain.

What think you?
Karlis

Sounds about Right, and Fits neatly with MyInfinate love response.

Love Omnaka

Karlis, your ideas/beliefs are not crazy, as I do not waste time and energy trying to label what other people hope and believe in. I ask questions only because I want to find hope and beliefs too, doesn't everyone? but, I also ask questions of myself of why' do I believe what I believe' Maybe that's my own effort at entertaining myself!
I would have to say that if one believes that God is their Father, then holding the hope that growing and changing to become like Him is awesome when you consider the attributes ascribed to Him...
He creates by fiat...I wonder, did He give this creating power to his offspring? Do you/we (humans) create by fiat too, and just don't realize that every word thought or spoken is having a creative effective?
Is God more than a creator? If so what? If not so, then what more could his offspring be or become?
Sorry...questions are all that I have! Thanks so much for sharing your beliefs and hopes with me
Many blessings, Karlis

I believe everything is infinite consciousness and that this infinite consciousness transcends purpose and therefore there is no purpose and no purposelessness. However this knowledge can only be known in its entirety via direct mystical spiritual perception. Until then there is a sense of duality of created and creator. No rational explanation in my view can explain what 'divine purpose' God or Spirit has for its creation. Such things cannot be explained and in my view I think the bible articulates this point rather well when it says:


For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

---Isaiah 55:8-9

Thank you, BNW
The thought that ran through my mind when reading your reply, "do we/humans give purpose to creation and is that the purpose intended for humans' by the creator?" That is, that we humans were created to give the meaning and purpose to creation?
'Many blessings

Is that our original purpose? Or did we infact just create such a purpose(s) for ourselves? From one point of view we will never know unless we spiriutally percieve the answer from the creator itself.

Or if there is no original purpose from a 'divine creator' then isnt it pointless to create purpose for ourselves? If it brings us balance and fulfillment (whatever that is) then surely not. What if the purpose of the universe is chance? Then what causes such a purpose? What if our purpose is to realize there is no purpose? That in itself is a purpose!

Spiritual Yoga..... Warriors pose!!! lol

100%

Awesome questions! I love em' BNW! What would life be without 'what if 's"
I would finding it boring, but that in it self is interesting to me too!

LOL, Warrior
Just don't forget to breathe while you stretch!

Purpose? I don't believe in the Abrahamic God, but I do believe that there's a larger "something" at work. Maybe it's intelligent, maybe it's not. Maybe it just "is". Maybe it's always existed, is always changing, and is nothing more than existence in itself. The point is, we don't know, so none of us are in a position to say what we are here for. Perhaps "purpose" is just a humanly invented concept in order to make ourselves feel important in this massively large universe that we live in. Perhaps it's not. I can't say, because I don't know for sure. As for my opinion on the subject, I simply cannot say. Who am I to try to say what a creator (if there is one) made any of us for? Maybe we don't even have a purpose. Maybe we're nothing but insignificant specks in the greater whole of existence. I feel that our purpose is beyond our comprehension for a reason; if we knew what we were here for, then what's the point in existing at all if we knew when it was going to end and why it began? I feel the we are kept in the dark for a reason, if we are kept in the dark by anything at all. Maybe there is no "creator" or "purpose". Maybe we're just here by accident. I just don't know, and I don't feel that I'm in the position to know. I don't think any of us are. Maybe "purpose" is different for all people. Maybe it's not. We just don't know, and all we can do is speculate. I'd like to think the closest we can get to "purpose" is merely existing to change and learn. But again, I just don't know.

I always believed that it was a why not on the part of the Gods. They all sat around doing their own yoga and came up with us. It's a gift it seems. But if so, then who are they giving this gift to? Who and what are we really?

Thank you so much for sharing, Lady Otterwynnd
I like your take on Purpose', to merely exsist to change and learn, which make the statement of 'I just don't know', purposeful.
'Many blessings

Great questions! Who and what are we? How do we really know that we are alive? What if we are actually dead and just don't know the difference? What if we are already in heaven and just don't know it? What if we're in hell and don't know it? What if! LOL!
You know, some people can spend a life time striving and dreaming of traveling into outer space, but I find strange that they don't remember where they are...on planet, whirling around in outer space and what's more they are blessed to be not alone! Sometimes we get so caught up in trying to achieve, that we are blind to having it' already.
Thanks so much for your input, Ghost Ship'
'Many blessings

the experience . nothing more nothing less.

Now that gives self-awareness' and staying awake in the moment' a urgent spot on my priority list!
Thanks Lt. Ripley
'Many blessings... and experiences

If you ask this question of yourself then you may find several possible answers.

Did you mean the purpose OF the creation, Ie gods purpose in creating; or FOR the creation, ie the purpose of the created beings? The answers are very different.
The creator might have done it because he could, or because it was inherent in his nature to create ( just as it is with humans)
If he was a lone sentience, he might have created other sentients for companionship and communication. He might have felt that a universe devoid of life other than himself, lacked enough purpose. He might have been curious to see what would happen.

As to our (the creations purpose) that too may br many-fold. God's stated purpose for us was to grow into an intellectual and spiritual maturity', as we lived almost immortal lives, in a virtual paradise. Once we had fallen, another stated purpose was to serve as an illustration to the other worlds of heaven, and the multitude of inhabitants, what would hapen if we strayed from god's plans for us.

Personally i think we retain another purpose granted to us by our nature. We are meant to learn, grow and develop in all facets of our nature. this is true both individually and collectively. We are meant to develop a balanced knowledge and understanding of our selves, the physical universe around us , but also the nature of god and our spiritual connection to him(or if you dont believe in god then a spiritual/ethical understanding of ourselves which allows us to reach our full potential as humans.)

Mr. Walker
OF' or FOR', now I'm curious to both!
When you say, 'another stated purpose was to serve as an illustration to other worlds of heaven, and the multitude of inhabitants', do you mean we serve as an example for future inhabitants of the physical universes' and galaxies' that neighbor us, or do you speak of spiritually inhabitated worlds that we can't see? If you mean the physical', I find that awesome in the thought that all the seemingly void' planets around us are hoped to be changed in the process.
The one noticable theme that I'm gathering from everyone's responds is 'to change and develop through learning and experiences
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, Mr. Walker
'Many blessings

Earth is apparently only one of many planets inhabited by sentients created by god. They come in different shapes and forms, and may have been created at differentt times, thus reaching different stages of physical and spiritual development.

Earth originally was once part of this heavenly civilization, under the governance of god, but when lucifer fomented rebellion, ours was the only planet to follow him/believe in him rather than stick to gods way. (At least this is the record shown in our bible, (it is possible that other planets experiences a similar fall)

Thus god placed an interdiction on earth, cutting off the normal forms of communication, and placed lucifer and the fallen angels in exile here (although lucifer/satan apparently was still able to travel betwen earth and heaven as the other good angels did. see the baack ground to the story of job)
Lucifer still believes his way of governing(including more freedom in peole but at the cost which freedom brings) is superior to god. God allows the experiment to go on on earth partly as an illustration to the other planets what ca happen if they do not follow gods plan, but also because since humans have free will they must experience fairly and logically the consequences of utilising that freedom unwisely.

Al of this is quite biblical and it is not my original thoughts.

I don't believe in gods. I don't know of any evidence for them. They don't show up in NDEs, for instance.

However, being a mystic, I can tell you of ONE, not a person interfering in natural
events, but more like a substratum of reality. We are all ONE. Every mystic says much the same thing, having
experienced it directly in mystical states.

In direct answer to your question, there is no proof that the universe ever was created. Perhaps it has no
beginning or end. This would be true if the Big Bang is really the Big Bounce. There must be something we
don't know yet that prevents the universe from emerging from or going into a singularity. Singularities are logically and mathematically impossible, thus physically impossible. So, universes are
born in the Big Bounce, have a long life, a trillion years or so, and eventually coalesce into the Big Crunch, that
turns out to be the Big Bounce. This assumes our present ideas of dark energy are wrong, and also assumes that
the laws of nature do not change from one universe to the next.

Nonetheless, there is a divine purpose (not a divine plan) that runs through all things. Mystics who have experienced
Cosmic Consciousness (and I have at age 31. I am now 68) see that events in this human life that we label "bad" are
really necessary for Challenge or Renewal. Death, for instance, allows one to come forth again as a happy laughing baby. They will
be happy and laughing if you treat them right, and integrate them into all parts of your life. The Death of the Greco-Roman
world allowed the birth and development of modern Western Civilization. The Death of the Dinosaurs allowed the world
of the mammals, including Homo Sapiens. And other obstacles and difficulties are really just challenges calling forth our
ability to make a response, hopefully a creative and successful response. For instance, the Roman Empire and China were afflicted
with the same plagues and the same barbarians. While the West was sinking into darkness about 600 CE, China was rising to
the brilliance of the Dong dynasty (600 - 900 CE).

There is no one word in English for this divine purpose, but it can be approximated with such ideas as creativity, innocence, renewal,
grace, beauty, freedom, joy. This is the joy a mystic feels when contemplating all of the universe, and all of history, filled with
the great and terrible, evolution and devastation. We make our own choices or discoveries about the meaning of life, but I suggest
one could not do better than the Divine Purpose. So, in the gesture of Orisen, one stands on a hill alone at dawn and holds ones arms out as if to hug the universe in all its majesty. Early Christians (pre-300 CE) did this and portrayed Joshu bar Josuf doing the same, not hanging on a crucifixion cross. We see this in the catacombs and in the manuscripts, sprinkled with Ankhs, a T with a handle.

~~~Cebrakon

God or no God the purpose of life is just simply to live.

Its the experience really.

Well said!

i beleive we are all here to learn through experience to heighten ourselves towards perfection. we are all one consciousness (god) put into individual bodies to experience ourselves in as many different ways as possible to evolve gods perfection.

god is light, light is love, love is everything

The purpose might be nothing more then us deciding on the purpose - if we second guess the intention we end up doing ourselves a disservice, if we forget the overall plan and concentrate on our own purpose we might just make the right descision when it comes to an overall plan.

Mr. Walker, thanks so much for taking the time to elaborate on your first response. I find it wonderful and inspiring when we share our understandings and beliefs. I often ponder our human desires to be free'...it's hard for me to grasp at times how we long and strive to be free, but at the same time we desire to be capitives and slaves to freedom'...Immortal life
'Many blessings

Cebrakon,
I have enjoyed, not only reading your post, but studying it too...thank you so much! I find the thoughts that it has provoked fascinating and I have to say your understanding of the 'bad' things in life as being a necessary part is awe inspiring and possibly a key' to the locked doors within our minds'
Even if one chooses to label their beliefs and understandings under one of the vast and many religious' titles, they would do well to consider what it' is that their 'religion, creator' or god/s' has given for them to overcome and what's more one should consider in what way' or method' they strive to overcome'
How do we know that we have found life, because death reveals it to us...
How do we know that we have found light, because darkness reveals it to us...
How do we know that we have found good'...only because bad' reveals that to us...
It is a TWO edge sword' that the Word' speaks with...if you find one edge of it, the other follows...(consider it is a sword!)
If you stand in ALL Light', will you not be blinded by that Light'
ALL Darkness' ...and you will be blinded by that Darkness'
What is 'heaven but a balance' (the path) between...
Thanks again, Cebrakon
'Many blessings

I agree with 'Brave new world'....WELL SAID!

Thank you so much, 'jelly metal
Your words are very insightful'..."We are all one consciousness divided into individuals"
Do you think all of creation; plants, animals, the earth, etc... (ALL) is part of that consciousness too?

'Many blessings

Thank you, 'Deleted' (lol, love the sn!)
I like your input on the subject, I am always considering what meaning and purpose I place on the experiences I have and even more I tend to watch my natural inclination to get lost in labeling and judging things. Personally...I want to believe that my own purpose' is to become more than just a judge' or a being' that does nothing more than label everything in creation as good' or bad'. When I accept and allow 'what is' then a whole new meaning is revealed'
'Many blessings

entirley. i think everything is consciousness. we are gods thoughts and we live in his mind.

If this is so -- maybe god needs therapy. What sort of mind conjures 10's of thousands of people being decimated in one fell swoop? What sort of mind thinks murder and mayhem might be good (entertaining?) thoughts to have? What sort of mind dwells on persecution of innocents?
If we're god's thoughts...the god must be crazy. imo, as always.

Our purpose is no different than any other living thing. We're just organisms on this planet. There's nothing special about us. Why do we have this obsessive need to be special/superior? That, alone, is a sign of mental illness...

Graylady, thank you so much for your response. You have definitly added a new perspective' to be considered.
Consider, you say, "Our purpose is no different than any other living thing"...

10's of thousands of things' are killed and die everyday....

Consider, it is as you say..."There's nothing special about us. Why do we have this obsessive need to be special/superior? That, alone is a sign of mental illness..."

Consider, why does it not bother one that 'things' die everyday? but, when humans do...it becomes very important and note worthy as of being unfair?
'Many blessings

this thread is about pondering the purpose of gods creation. its not about mental illness. its not a debate as to weather god exists. if you are uneducated in spirituality and feel the need to interpret metaphor as literal explination perhaps you should put your thoughts down on the spirituality vs skepticism board. as stated in the fourum guidelines.

i find it interesting that skeptics feel the need to turn beleivers to their way of thinking because they havent noticed something others have. they are completley entitled to their opinion but every beleiver has gone through stages of thinking logically and trying to reinforce their beliefs with reasoning. only to find it takes away from the piece of mind they found so inviting in the first place.

there is not one thought you can put down that hasnt previously been considered by beleivers.

Hello Ciss,

Sometimes it pays to not look for meaning and purpose (easier said then done) live in the moment and except it as being relevant to just that moment. We all judge and label things, which in itself isn't a bad thing, it gives us reference points. The problem comes with the intent or beliefs behind the judging or labelling. I was talking to a friend about this yesterday and for me the test of any belief/religion or God comes when you judge your own actions and intent towards someone regardless of the validity of the belief and/or God. What i mean is if i live by a certain way/code or belief then will my actions towards others or my impact on the earth still be the same if my beliefs are proven wrong - if the answers yes then your not doing to bad. If your way of life/opinions and generally the way you treat or judge people changes if your religion or way of life is proven false then that should tell you all you need to know about that particular belief (or purpose). I hope that made sense it did in my head

Jelly Metal, Thank you for the reminder, that this isn't the debate forum!

Well said! Deleted'
We are in a constant state of change' which doesn't allow for sureties, what we judge to be in this moment may not apply to the next moment'
Don't relax into surety' and fall off into dreaming, you'll never know what comes in the next moment unless you're awake and experiencing it for and of yourself..
I admire your openess of considering that your beliefs could be proven wrong'...this is what I mean by I question myself always'
I have no time left to question the right and wrong of another's beliefs or their understandings, my every moment is spent questioning my own.
Thanks so much for sharing with me
'Many blessings

I agree, although my life isn't so much about questioning my own beliefs it's more about perfecting the best of both worlds - with my feet firmly on the ground i can afford to keep my head in the clouds (if you follow what i mean)

If you think of the universe as an entire complex, and evolving lving organism, then a god or godlike being (I choose Goddess myself) would be the consciousness. The Universe just like our planet has evolved toward more and more complex forms of life, and we are just a part of it. I don't see that there is a bearded father figure deciding if I've been bad, more like an all pervading force and intelligence spread throughout the cosmos. The creation issue is a myth. The universe came into existance, and has moved toward more complex compounds and more complex forms of life, thats just its purpose. Otherwise we would not be here to observe it.

Darkmoonlady'
I find your choice of Goddess' very interesting in contrast to that of most beliefs and teachings refer to a Male' deity or being'
Very thought provoking view, you have shared with us!
Thank you so much
'Many blessings

Thank you Ciss ~~~ Cebrakon

It's the cycle of life. If you're born it's a given that you will die... Why would the natural process be a bother? It's inevitable.



That's because we humans think we're special --- but we're not. We have the audacity to think that because we 'dominate' this planet that we should be able to defeat death. IOW - We're too special to die....
We've actually created something which allows people to believe they can be resurrected, defying death. That's how special we think we are. Pitiful, really.

If this was God's intention, I have to question why you choose to ignore all the bad stuff in the world. That God would have known would come about. Because he is all knowing.

Love and experience. Lol. If God was all powerful, he could have made these things exist in any way, why specifically our way? And why want to observe such things anyway, since he already knew every possible outcome?

And why the great flood, to destroy all the violence... Why would something all powerful purposely make the world violent and then get angry and destroy it.

Divinity is in all things, yet it cannot be seen unless one has taken mescalin or psilocybin, as Aldous Huxley did. So everything is resurrected or recycled in some way. ONE is All. ONE is all that is real. What we think of as reality is just the succession of passing shadows in Plato's cave. Probably the wind thinks it is special. No doubt the Mockingbird is convinced of it, and I am inclined to agree.

~~Cebrakon