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Phase 3
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 05:16 PM) *
With an image like this, I am not disputing everyone will see something different. I honestly thought the man and dog were clear as day? I was quite surprised the few people who didn't see it?

hmm.gif


I feel your pain brother, same stuff with my shadow figure picture. Oh well just have to keep trying is all.
Pluto-x
I appreciate everyone's support! thumbsup.gif

Despite what everyone sees, you all have to admit there is something supernatural or paranormal there.

Since it wasn't there by the visible eye and only caught by the camera, we can rule out that it was fog or breathe. I was also there, and can tell you my team is in a good habit of tagging and debunking such things.

yes.gif

SS79
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 05:22 PM) *
I appreciate everyone's support! thumbsup.gif

Despite what everyone sees, you all have to admit there is something supernatural or paranormal there.

since it wasn't there by the visible eye and only caught by the camera, we can rule out that it was fog or breathe. I was also there, and can tell you my team is in a good habit of tagging and debunking such things.

yes.gif


Why do we all have to admit there is something supernatural or paranormal there ?? because thats your opinion of it ?? hmm.gif

We all make our own opinions and have a right to say that we don't think its paranormal at all . you dont have to agree of course . Wether it is or not I dont know . Too me it isn't enough to say its paranormal. You have at best, a vague shape of a man and a dog . which even after its outlined.I don't see it like that . i can see the man shape . but the dogs a stretch IMO .

I respect what you are doing pluto . and your efforts as i've said before . but you have shown that you are not as stringent as you may think you are, in the other thread when you didnt video the meter . yet still tried to tell us you had proof to back up your claim . maybe thats the case with this picture a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. ie something you failed to spot or even remember ( like the stop sign ) . a simple mistake . . maybe you didnt see the mist . but maybe it was there but not very visible . like when you walk through a fog you can see it from far away but when your inside it it isnt so clear to see its outlines . it could also be breath IMO . not saying it is for sure but i think its a possibility . it could also be something on the camera . in fact it probably could be a number of things .

Hope this doesn't seem like i am throwing out your past mistakes to have a dig at you . I'm not . I'm just saying that sometimes we can miss things or not recall properly as you have shown in the past . and been open enough to admit . theres a chance it could have happened this time which makes me believe instead of us all "Having to admit theres something paranormal there" . the best anyone could say with whats presented is its inconclusive but a nice shot IMO .

SS x
NoahJaymes
Alright, the moment we all have been waiting for.....EnJays skeptical self....grin2.gif

In JN's enhancement it appears the wood is...a little moist perhaps.

If this is the case, which anyone looking closely can agree....then this "mist" could very well be evaporation.

What you are all seeing is based on a power of suggestion which he admittted was wrong for him to do...again tongue.gif

Can you all honestly say that is what you would have saw if he didn't suggest what he thought it was?

What was the exact environmental factors of that day pluto? Did it rain at all? How was the humidity? Temp? Wind direction? What direction were you facing? What kind of camera were you using? What kind of setting?

Pluto-x
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, I'll leave it at that.

Moonie2012
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 03:30 PM) *
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, I'll leave it at that.


Without answering the good and relevant questions CryWolf asked? That's not very good objectivity. You seem to be far more interested in it being paranormal than sharing and/or discounting the conditions of what may make it normal.

Now that he mentioned it, I can see how that mist could be created from evaporation and not be easily visible to the naked eye. It does look an awful lot like steam coming off the wood.
OldTimeRadio
I certainly see the dog, from its face to its tufted tail. And I saw it clearly even before I read the text.

It is so in fact so obviously a dog that I at first wondered if it might not be a real, living dog photographed badly out-of-focus.
Moonie2012
QUOTE (OldTimeRadio @ May 13 2008, 04:09 PM) *
I certainly see the dog, from its face to its tufted tail. And I saw it clearly even before I read the text.

It is so in fact so obviously a dog that I at first wondered if it might not be a real, living dog photographed badly out-of-focus.


Since "ghost dog" is in the title of the thread, it isn't even possible to come in here without being given the suggestion, so no you didn't see it before reading the text.

And LOL at it being "so in fact so obviously a dog". It's so in fact so obviously shapeless mist.
Pluto-x
Skeptics will have their opinions, and those who are not skeptics will have their own opinions.

Sue me for not having all the data in the world to back the photo up. Now I feel like I am being interrogated? Geeze.

NOBODY is an expert, not me, not you, nobody. Our field is strictly all based on theory and opinion. Until proven with facts. I don't have enough facts for you guys. what can I say? that doesn't make me a lousy investigator. I just practice with different methods and techniques. You guys certainly know how to discourage people from trying!? mad.gif
Moonie2012
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 04:21 PM) *
Skeptics will have their opinions, and those who are not skeptics will have their own opinions.

Sue me for not having all the data in the world to back the photo up. Now I feel like I am being interrogated? Geeze.


Nobody wants all the data in the world. Surely you can remember if it was raining or had rained that day, whether it was hot or cold, humid, basic stuff.

If you want to investigate and show us all this "proof", you need to do it the correct way and be prepared to answer questions.
NoahJaymes
To be honest it was what I thought was very simple questions to be answered. I can go back to 2000 from an investigation and give you every single bit of detail from the tempature, humidity, equipment used etc. This is based on what every investigator should do and have...."logs". Like Moonie suggested, if you are going to provide something "of substance", best be able to answer everything asked.

It does seem that you ONLY want those who SEE what you WANT them to see to reply to your thread. Those who object you are quick to reply with, well, you are entitled to your opinions which suggests you already have in mind what you want it to be.

Which means, you are satisifed with only one answer....it is paranormal.

Well I am here to say that in my opinion, IT IS NOT PARANORMAL.
Pluto-x
You are all acting like I should be a skeptic, and I am not a skeptic. Again, everyone is entitled to your opinions. I'm done posting photos here. I'm tired of skeptics on this site ripping apart everything to shreds. Being a skeptic is one thing, but most of you also discourage those are trying to prove.
OldTimeRadio
QUOTE (Moonie2012 @ May 13 2008, 09:17 PM) *
Since "ghost dog" is in the title of the thread, it isn't even possible to come in here without being given the suggestion, so no you didn't see it before reading the text.

And LOL at it being "so in fact so obviously a dog". It's so in fact so obviously shapeless mist.


Gee, please forgive me for holding an opinion that differs from your own.

I hadn't realized that wasn't permitted.
SS79
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 09:21 PM) *
I just practice with different methods and techniques. You guys certainly know how to discourage people from trying!? mad.gif


No one is trying to discourage you from what i can see . and it certainly wasnt my intention to make you out too be a lousy investigator . I appreciate anyone who shares any evidence they may have . however just because they share it doesnt mean i automatically have too like it . or agree that its paranormal .

You must have known when you posted it that it would create discussion from those who agree and those who dont . you've been around a while you know the drill . tongue.gif

which is why im surprised that you seem to only be accepting of the comments from those who agree and dismissing those who dont flippantly with remarks such as skeptics this and skeptics that, instead of maybe considering and politely discussing the reasons why it can't be what those "skeptics "are saying . . if you are soo certain its a man and his dog fine lets discuss your reasons behind it . but dont throw a tantrum when no one agrees and try to make us feel guilty for having a differing opinion . I see a lot of this around here you know the "why would people share anything here. no one will believe anyway ". i disagree with that statement . I think its the quality of the evidence thats the problem not the skeptics .

SS
Moonie2012
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 04:37 PM) *
You are all acting like I should be a skeptic, and I am not a skeptic. Again, everyone is entitled to your opinions. I'm done posting photos here. I'm tired of skeptics on this site ripping apart everything to shreds. Being a skeptic is one thing, but most of you also discourage those are trying to prove.


Well, no wonder your stuff is so easy to pick apart - you aren't being skeptical in the least, and that's the worst thing an investigator can do. You need to at least be a little skeptical when going over evidence.

If you expect to see ghosts in everything, that's exactly what you'll see.

As for trying to discourage people, nobody is doing that. Seems to me people are trying to encourage you to be a BETTER investigator. If you're going to run away and cry every time somebody asks questions, then you shouldn't be doing this at all.
NoahJaymes
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 05:37 PM) *
You are all acting like I should be a skeptic, and I am not a skeptic. Again, everyone is entitled to your opinions. I'm done posting photos here. I'm tired of skeptics on this site ripping apart everything to shreds. Being a skeptic is one thing, but most of you also discourage those are trying to prove.


No offense man, but seriously, what?

I don't think you should be a skeptic, to each their own, but if you post something on here you know damn well it is going to be looked at very closely. The fact you are putting your tail between your legs and giving up shows that you care too damn much what others think of your evidence. You must REALIZE and I have no idea why you haven't already, that there isn't just believers on this board.

Where do you see a skeptic discouraging you to "prove" the paranormal? How are you going to prove to anyone on this site that paranormal is in fact....legit?

There are THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of threads where countless of images, evps, stories, synopsis's, and the likes and yet....STILL nothing to show even to myself, that such things exist, and I AM A SKEPTIC before A BELIEVER...but I do believe based on experiences.

You are trying too hard to gain recongnition man, and honestly, I do see it as that. You complain a lot about PRS not giving you credit, or allowing you to investigate with them or about how groups can become credible...

Whatever happened to just being satisifed with helping people and continiously learn while doing so? You make this seem like its all about you, or how the world should thank paranormal investigators for their hard work or for us to be put up on a pedistle.

Give up man...let someone drive you away from your beliefs on your own evidence....but what does that say about you as a leader?
Pluto-x
Here's my problem... most skeptics are not believers. Which is fine. To each their own. I'd like to know what is so wrong in believing in something you are passionate about? Skeptics must believe in something? But you don't see our kind of element interrogating it to death to the point where it gets personal and into a heated debate? That's the differences between skeptics and believers. People on here barely know me. They haven't gotten to know me and they are judging me. That is when I get my back in the air and mad. They don't know how I investigate, where I investigate, why, with whom, and what our methods are. They judge me by the quality of the photo which is not my fault. the only thing I lacked and admitted to of is avoiding power of suggestion and some data. But I feel like if I don't present a novel of data to a skeptic, its automatically dismissed. I am use to it, but I am so frustrated because there is nothing wrong with believing in something. Is faith an object? Can you see it? Can you taste it? Can you touch it? No, but its there. that's what I am talking about.

I'm not perfect, nobody is. I feel like most skeptics think their way is the best way all the time. It isn't. There is no expert in our field and if you think you are an expert, you are wrong.

I'm done posting photos here because my opinion is clearly unwelcome.
Regency
QUOTE (Pluto-x @ May 13 2008, 11:04 PM) *
Here's my problem... most skeptics are not believers. Which is fine. To each their own. I'd like to know what is so wrong in believing in something you are passionate about? Skeptics must believe in something? But you don't see our kind of element interrogating it to death to the point where it gets personal and into a heated debate? That's the differences between skeptics and believers. People on here barely know me. They haven't gotten to know me and they are judging me. That is when I get my back in the air and mad. They don't know how I investigate, where I investigate, why, with whom, and what our methods are. They judge me by the quality of the photo which is not my fault. the only thing I lacked and admitted to of is avoiding power of suggestion and some data. But I feel like if I don't present a novel of data to a skeptic, its automatically dismissed. I am use to it, but I am so frustrated because there is nothing wrong with believing in something. Is faith an object? Can you see it? Can you taste it? Can you touch it? No, but its there. that's what I am talking about.

I'm not perfect, nobody is. I feel like most skeptics think their way is the best way all the time. It isn't. There is no expert in our field and if you think you are an expert, you are wrong.

I'm done posting photos here because my opinion is clearly unwelcome.


Pluto, I don't think you get what he's saying. He's saying you have to be objective and look at what the alternatives can be and, to the best of your ability with the equipment you use, try and rule out alternatives.

You personally are not being judged, your photo is, and I think it takes guts to put your photos up here for scrutiny, I take my hat off to you for that (and hope you continue to do so). It's not bad to believe in what you're looking for, if you didn't believe the paranormal existed, why would you be investigating at all? That must go for ALL investigators surely? If you don't believe it's there, why bother looking. However, you HAVE to look at things objectively too, it could be vapour of some kind, it could be cigarette smoke, it could be breath (I'm not saying it is... I'm saying it COULD be).

ennui
QUOTE
I'm done posting photos here because my opinion is clearly unwelcome.


I hope you will chnage your mind about this. I enjoy all the photos, if I see what the poster sees or not. You all have encouraged me to carry around my creepy camera and ask family members to buy me a good one if they are trying to figure out a present for me. grin2.gif

I hope everyone continues to post pics, evps and wavs.
Pluto-x
QUOTE (CryWolf @ May 13 2008, 05:52 PM) *
No offense man, but seriously, what?

I don't think you should be a skeptic, to each their own, but if you post something on here you know damn well it is going to be looked at very closely. The fact you are putting your tail between your legs and giving up shows that you care too damn much what others think of your evidence. You must REALIZE and I have no idea why you haven't already, that there isn't just believers on this board.

Where do you see a skeptic discouraging you to "prove" the paranormal? How are you going to prove to anyone on this site that paranormal is in fact....legit?

There are THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of threads where countless of images, evps, stories, synopsis's, and the likes and yet....STILL nothing to show even to myself, that such things exist, and I AM A SKEPTIC before A BELIEVER...but I do believe based on experiences.

You are trying too hard to gain recongnition man, and honestly, I do see it as that. You complain a lot about PRS not giving you credit, or allowing you to investigate with them or about how groups can become credible...

Whatever happened to just being satisifed with helping people and continiously learn while doing so? You make this seem like its all about you, or how the world should thank paranormal investigators for their hard work or for us to be put up on a pedistle.

Give up man...let someone drive you away from your beliefs on your own evidence....but what does that say about you as a leader?


You didn't have to get so personal C.W.!!! mad.gif

I requested for this to be closed. You won't have anything more to worry about.

P.S.

Tail between the legs??? No, there's called a time when things get into a heated debate and "personal" when I decide I need a break or need to walk away rather than argue or fight.


Pluto-x
QUOTE (Regency @ May 13 2008, 06:19 PM) *
Pluto, I don't think you get what he's saying. He's saying you have to be objective and look at what the alternatives can be and, to the best of your ability with the equipment you use, try and rule out alternatives.

You personally are not being judged, your photo is, and I think it takes guts to put your photos up here for scrutiny, I take my hat off to you for that (and hope you continue to do so). It's not bad to believe in what you're looking for, if you didn't believe the paranormal existed, why would you be investigating at all? That must go for ALL investigators surely? If you don't believe it's there, why bother looking. However, you HAVE to look at things objectively too, it could be vapour of some kind, it could be cigarette smoke, it could be breath (I'm not saying it is... I'm saying it COULD be).


C.W. got personal and he knows it. He didn't have to. That's where I draw the line.

NoahJaymes
Again you are looking TOO MUCH into something. So let me ask you this...based on your reactions, you want everyone to welcome the photo with open arms and in no way try to debunk it?

How are you to improve as an investigator if you can't even take criticism?

After each investigation I always ask the people we are helping....what could we have done better? What would you like to have happen that didn't? Were you satisfied with the overall investigation?

Then I do the same after I hand them a mini-book of information I typed out myself from pre-investigation, to investigation, to post-investigation, to research, to evidence, to conclusions.

Were you satisfied with the investigative report? What could we have done differently? blah blah

How are you to grow and learn as an investigator or even as a group if you can't take criticism?
Irish
Topic closed at request of OP thumbsup.gif
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