Ever since i heard about Charles Manson i have been interested in him.
Especially his outlook on life and people around him.


Any info/views/comments you would like to share about Charley would be appreciated.

(I have taken my opinion out of this thread as the point of the thread wasn't about my outlook.)

An unknown voice asks "In other words, you think that progress is not good for mankind?"

Manson replies: "Progress? There's no such thing as progress man. There's only change. You dig a whole in the ground and you build up a city and you fight a war and you call it progress? And it's a beautiful game and its a perfect game and whoever wants to continue playing general and go around killing himself, well my goodness. I wouldn't want to play that game myself, but if they want to play it, I love them for it. If they want to go over and kill each other, the only reason they're over-there is because they want to be. They can use any excuse, and they can say but, but and maybe, ugh, uh. But what it boils down to is just one thing. As long as there's hate in your heart, there'll be hate in the world, dig? You can't fight for peace and you cannot capture freedom and it's just a simple little old thing man, that any little baby could figure out if we didn't put cancer in his mind."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aIfGj_55FHI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bU3jwdUFqWA

Aint he just handsome lol.

Somehow I believe that Charlie basically thinks that we are gluttons for our own punishment's.
Genius or lunatic. Both, dont we all have our own little gripes with ourselves and our society?
He fried himself upstairs and with that comes consequences.
Still I wouldnt find myself sitting in the same room as him.

How can ya not laugh at a face like this!!

He's a smelly hippie.

-Pol

Haha, yer the face is hilarious. I believe he made this face in relation to Albert Einstein's famous face pose.

Have you smelt him?

How about both? I've always had a fascination with Manson myself.

“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”

“I can't dislike you, but I will say this to you: you haven't got long before you are all going to kill yourselves, because you are all crazy. And you can project it back at me ... but I am only what lives inside each and every one of you.”

“Believe me, if I started murdering people… there'd be none of you left!”

He's a lunatic. He's definitely "off."

I smelled him and he smelled like tapioca.

-Pol

Yes i would agree with both. He has something good going on in there, he is just abit off from all those years in prison (even though he says he loves it, without question it would have messed with his mind).

The thing that fascinates me is the sh** prison system for letting him out in the first place, he even said he was not ready to leave, still they forced him out. Then look what happens, several people end up being massacred.

What is the difference between genius and lunacy apart from individual opinion?

One does not kill people. That is the difference.

Interesting question OpenMyEye. Im currently reading Helter Skelter, which is a book about the Tate and Labianca murders. Which im sure you know were all committed by the "family". I think at times, Manson could be insightful, but no where near a genius. You try taking LSD and marijuana and not feel alittle insightful lol. His family did his bidding, not cause he was clever, but cause they were young, silly and looking for a leader or father figure. All he really did, was talk S**T, and made it sound intelligent. Who knows, if he had a different upbringing, he probably would have been a politician hehe.
Top question though

bravo and in a way even albert ENSTIEN i know i cant spell....but in a way he killed even more then manson yet we celabrate him. i think manson was both yes...he had to be both because his organized crime was just to smart....and even hannible lector had his charming side

Genius

Believe me, if I started murdering people… there'd be none of you left

I can't dislike you, but I will say this to you: you haven't got long before you are all going to kill yourselves, because you are all crazy. And you can project it back at me ... but I am only what lives inside each and every one of you

Ah but which one?

Genius or Lunatic ... unfortunatly for many he was both.

I think the Hannibal Lecter analogy is probably accurate, at least from the point of view of Manson's adoring "Family".

I know so many women who think he's handsome. I don't get it. To me he looks like a mangy, dirty creep. That swastika he carved into his forehead doesn't do much to enhance his appearance either.

Frigg'n sad when ya hear comparisons made of Einstein & Manson. Can't pin it on Albi, the man was basically a single cog (very important one granted) in a well oiled scientific machine, trapped by the scientific & political establishment of the time for his genius, openly stating that he despised where it was all heading...even dubbed a rebel scientist by his closest peers. Wonder what would have happen to him or his family if he said; ''Screw you all, I quick!''(?) hmmm...


I can think of a few leaders today that compare with Manson...err not as clever tho.



Edit:
“The ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and make its tool of them.” - Albert Einstein

Manson was an idiot that that planned murders. I guess your other hero is Hitler.

Given the fact that every time he goes up for Parole he carves a swastika in his forehead and informs the parole board that when he gets out he is gonna kill everyone.... I would say... Lunatic....

He might have been cunning, not intelligent. If he was a genius, he would have never been caught. He was just a crazy idiot.

Neither. I think he wants people to think he's crazy he wants people to fear him. Genius...to much credit......lunatic no I think its all an act.

I don't think intelligence necessarily has a moral component. Cunning is a form of intelligence.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cunning
Main Entry: 1cun·ning
Pronunciation: \ˈkə-niŋ\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from present participle of can know
Date: 14th century
1 : dexterous or crafty in the use of special resources (as skill or knowledge) or in attaining an end <a cunning plotter>
2 : displaying keen insight <a cunning observation>
3 : characterized by wiliness and trickery <cunning schemes>
4 : prettily appealing : cute <a cunning little kitten>



Doesn't say intelligent in the traditional sense that we think of it. Heck it doesn't mention intelligence at all.
Everything I have heard him say doesn't smell of intelligence. It smells of something else.

Manson was pyschopath that planned the murders of 7 people, because he thought it would start a "race war."
Not a genius in my book. He is a cold blooded murderer. Who cares what he says?
His mind is so destroyed from drugs he doesn't know what he is saying half the time anyway.

I would say both.

Genius in the way he manipulated his followers, as it takes skill and insight into the thoughts and minds of others to get them to willingly commit crimes.

And I believe he was a lunatic because only Manson can recognize the method to his madness, the reasoning behind it all..... I'd say it's a bit delusional to assume he could start a race war. I say, he only wanted to see if he could pull it off, and how far his followers would go for him.

As for him liking prison, he probably did. Why work for your three square meals when you can get it for free? Where else can a highly known convicted murderer feel safe? Is this lunacy? No, it is self preservation.

The people who followed him were definitely
out of their minds. And probably still are wherever
they maybe.

Lunatic? He wanted to stay IN prison. He hated it on the outside. I would do the same if it was a useful method to stay in prison (if i wanted to be there).



If you would please describe the comparison between Charles Manson and Hitler.
Okay i'll do a few:

-Charles Manson believed in freedom and seemed very anti-government.
-Hitler was a fascist.

-Hitler ordered millions of people to be killed.
-Charles Manson ordered 8 people to be killed (i think round about that).

-Hitler willingly went to war to take over Europe.
-Charley obviously points fun at war in the quote i put in the start of this thread.

These are just a few.
Also do not assume my hero is Hitler, you do not know me at all. I do not look at him as a hero.




Keep up the posts, it's interesting to hear everyone's opinions.

BUT, you idolize a man the ordered people killed, was the driving force behind a baby being ripped from its mother while she pleaded for her life.The baby was cut from her womb. To idolize such evil is sickening and says something about you. Charlie should have been put down years ago.

Wow, this is certainly a spin out for me. People idolising a twisted cold blooded murderer. One would expect more in this day annd age wouldn't one.

From Wikipedia

Mansons first offence.



Ohh, yeah, it takes an enlightened genius to sodomise a boy.
I believe it would take little genius to lead a bunch of drug crazed hippies on a rebellious cause.

By way of auto theft and prostituting underage teens, Manson kept himself busy untill the next time he would be thrown in jail for forgery and pimping.
Upon release, rather than be a man and take life by the horns, he cowardly claimed life on the outside too tough, and started to pillage what he wanted from those who had worked hard and earned thier place in society. Then he thought he would get serious about hurting people. The murders were brutal. He ought to be subject to the same.

The man was a biggoted drug addicted murderer and thief with no respect for the achievments of others, or those around him. He was a selfish egotisitical redneck. I find it amazing he survived the arrest. Obviously a very soft and honest cop. He did not deserve such leniency. His entire lineage should be terminated. Apart from the people he slaughtered, and ordered slaughtred, the minds he destroyed alone should have earned him a walk down the green mile.
I too am amazed such a freak would be compared with Einstein. What an insult. How disgraceful people would see him for anything other than what he really was, a opportunistic rascist murdering selfish bum.

And he had no right to involve the Beatles good name with his disgusting outlook. He should be charged for that too.

It takes no genuis to convince people wasted on PCP to commit violent acts.

Only wanted to see if he could pull of a race war? Do you see that as OK in any way?



Sounds like he was having a serious crack at "seeing if he could pull it off"

Self preservation? You mean how to survive as a burden and blight on society. Why not get meals for free? Why not get of his lazy backside and get a job. Another who thinks the world owes them a favour. This twisted mongrel thought he was entitled to kill to have what he wants. If others did not exist, what would this leech survive on then? Why should a highly convicted murderer feel safe? They do not have that right, they passed that up. They should be pleased todays enlightened society does not pass them on to the victims families for true justice.

Don't know what happen there with my post/reply Psyche, i was trying to quote you on the above statement...

But anyways, that pretty much sums him up, kudos...

Idolize?! Where the hell are you getting all these accusation's?

Definition for idolize:
Main Entry: idol·ize
Pronunciation: primarystressimacrd-schwal-secondarystressimacrz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -ized; -iz·ing
: to worship as an idol : love or admire too much

In this thread i have neither even tried to sow that I idolize Charley or that i (as it says in definition of idolize) worship or love him.
Also i suggest getting your facts right before commenting. Nobody ever ripped Sharon Tate's baby out from her womb.

Like i've said i do not idolize him.

Also think about this:
George W Bush has ordered countless people to be killed over his time in parliament.
People shove spears down bulls throats after tormenting for them for long periods of time in Spanish Bullfighting for "entertainment".
People of one religion murder other people of different religions for their belief in a different god (Christianity for example).
Look how many people people idolize these things?

Hehe good question.

And here you go defending him. Oh he didn't rip out the baby, he just had it killed. No, you don't idolize him. Then you try to compare his acts to others. Its obvious you have a thing for Manson. Stand up and be proud since he seems to be your hero.

There is not one redeming quality to Manson.

A chicken sh*t (woman beater) piss weak minded show pony that used others (vulnerable) to do his dirty work...



Yeah...a real genius, no doubt about it.

I have to agree with the Raven, your posting makes you appear to hold him in high regard. It may not be your intention, but you are comming off that way.

George W Bush retaliated to 9/11. Forgotten that little incident? Killing three thousand of your own tends to get one's back up. Ever consider the Talibans daily death toll? Do you think a world leader should turn a blind eye to that? Whatever the reason, I see many against Bush. I doubt anybody idolozes the man. I'd hate to be him. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.
Bullfighting generates heated controversy in many areas of the world, including Spain. Supporters of bullfighting argue that it is a culturally important tradition, the same reason the Japanese continue to slaughter endangered species. It is not advocated by the majority, a minority hold this barbaric tradition dear. It is only a matter of time before it is ended.
Christianity for example? WTF? How many crusades have you been affected by? Lost any family members to the Nights of Templar lately? The western world divorced religion and law a very long time ago - you hadn't heard? No need to worry about the Spanish inquisition these days either (bet that's a relief huh!)

Your perspective is somewhat awry.

Cheers Rebel.

Could not have put it better or more accuratley no matter how hard I might try. If I may return the kudos.....

I was just trying to clarify to anyone that might be reading this thread that nobody actually ripped the baby out from its mother.
A thing for Manson? I thought his outlook on some things are in a way genius.


I apologise if i am then. I do not hold him in high regard, he interest me, that is all.


Okay, i aimed this thread on people writing about their opinions on Charles Manson, i don't want people to think i "idolize" him, i'm just interested in other peoples outlook on him.
Maybe i should take my opinion off the start of the thread then (if i can do that), to avoid conflict and false accusations.

If you do idolize him do not let others not allow you that right because their sensibilities are offended.

Manson was severely abused as a child which helped form who he was. I would not say he had no redeeming qualities because he had quite a few and had great potential to become famous without having to resort to murder or racism. He had connections within the music industry and could have become a musician that would have been idolized for that. There were many pitfalls and decisions he made that led him to where he is. I do not really like the guy but that does not cloud my vision in seeing he could have done it all differently and was capable of that but just chose not to. Not saying it would have been a simple choice or even as easy as it is for most of us to stay on the straight and narrow. His victimization as a child did facilitate him becoming a victimizer.

Thankyou.
Great message.


Yes if i did idolize him i wouldn't change my mind because some people's "sensibilities are offended", i do not but thankyou.

Clovis, dosn't that kinda stereo-type other child abuse victims & or even send the wrong message/impression?...
He may have been a victim himself (should have seeked help) But the bottom line is he was baked to the eye balls (self inflicted) probably from early on, hence why i stated earlier that he was piss weak minded (couldn't deal with his problems so he resorted to hard-core drugs as an escape but it caught up with him i guess)...'He alone chose his own path'.



Anyways, thats it for me on this thread topic...later.

I see no sensibilites offended. I see public outrage. Anything more than absolute disgust is far more than this creep deserves.

Great potential? Like how at an early age he held a razor to a boys throat whilst sodomising him? He spent a great deal of his life in insitutions, for a good reason, He was and is a pathetic little worm (and this example shows he always was) that made others fulfill his twisted desires by loading them up on drugs and taking adavantage of the situation.

Music contacts?


He cost Wilson a fortune, got a mountain of STD's as well for his trouble. Gregg Jakobson, Wilsons friend, was the only person with musical ability to be taken in by Manson. I guess there is always one.

Ohh yeah, pretty popular! Guns and Roses covered some of his songs. Like that was not for shock value!!!! His connections to the Beatles only existed in his twisted mind.

Johnathan Bach was an orphan raised by his brother, John Keats lived through a disasterous remarriage by his mother, Henry Stanleys mother refused to look after him, Stephen Jobs was orphaned as a baby and he experimented with drugs, Louis Armstrong was abandoned as an infant and brought up in poverty, Johannes Kepler's mother had such a bad reputation the townpeople wanted her dead, John Lennon was rejected from his foster family, Samuel Goldwyn was a penniless orphan and killed nobody to reach his niche, Rudyard Kipling was abused by his foster family, Malcome X's mother suffered mental illness, his father killed by rascists, Ella Fitzgerald ran away from childhood abuse.

All these people managed to overcome a difficult start to life and contribute to society. Manson was a ...well, Rebel has already described that best. This man deserves nothing but contempt. What a waste of airspace.

I thought that might be the case, perhaps a re-word, I see where you are coming from, one needs to be aware of such cases, and the human morbid value of wide eyed disbelief at the attrocities carried out does intuige a person, if nothing else for the amazement that a person could be so evil. It would be an injustice not to discuss the man and his life, historical record could be valuable to determine this type of behaviour earlier in life, and hopefully correct it.
It is astounding that a fellow person could hold such little regard for those around him isn't it.

I would like to correct on a point:



Actually, they did. As I recall, Sharon Tate was almost 9 months pregnant, and pleaded for her life, and that of her unborn child.
At that point she was told: "Look b***** I have no mercy for you."
That part is correct.
(By the way, I have read "Helter Skelter" and numerous other things about the Manson Murders.)

I'm sorry, but I thought posting the pics of the victims might give you some insight, that this man is a murderer.
He killed 9 ( I'm including Sharon Tate's unborn child) innocent victims, just for the heck of it, and you want to admire that, or think he is some genius for it??!!
What about the victim's families? They lost a sister, or daughter, son, or brother.
I think Charles Manson, doesn't even deserve a thread on this board, he is that low. He esp. does not deserve someone's admiration or respect. Or whatever else you may call it.

This is how I feel on this matter.

There still existed a possibility he could have made a name for himself in the music industry. He wasted it. He also orchestrated the Tate-LeBianca murders partly out of petty jealousy. I do not really care for the guy other than it was an epsiode in history. If someone wants to idolize or admire Manson it does not affect me one way or another. Popular cultures does both in certain ways. My only point of contetion was the way I felt the OP was being treated, maybe what I saw in that was no ones intention, but he as eveyrone else has a right to their view. Cheers.

Actually, they didn't. They stabbed her stomach/womb several times.
They never pulled the baby out of her womb.
The rumours that were surrounding the case was that it was some sort of satanic ritual and that they ripped the baby out of the womb.
If you have any evidence of the family ripping the baby out please post it in this thread, or maybe a page reference from the Helter Skelter novel (i have this also), i would be interested.


We have threads about men that cut off their 4 month old nephews heads for a car.
Link
Why not have a thread on a man that shook the American 60s (and the nation) by family cult killings?

I think Gregg Jakobson might have given him a go, but pretty much everyone else in the industry thought he was creepy and had little to offer. Gregg Jakobson was on some hippy trip and thought he had discovered something new. I strongly doubt he would have had much impact. I too think this albeit a shameful chapter, is an important one in our history, and one that should not be forgotten. With hope and vigillance, we can wish nothing like this ever happens again. Sorry, I was probably a bit cranky in my reply, I had just been insulted by PM by a member too gutless to face me in the forums. My reply may have sounded more harsh than I intended. I think the OP has explained his view better, I guess it can be hard when people are seas apart, the American tourists I have met have had some very puzzled looks at some local Aussie expressions, which can be offensive in their home country yet only lead to mirth when expressed here. I think everyone has a right to a view, but if one was to look up such a character, one really would be more than wary of that person, as Manson did nothing to look up to. I would be reporting anyone infatuated in a positive way by his deeds to authorities to be quite honest.

Einstein wrote to FDR that a bomb could be developed. He advised Roosevelt that the Nazis were working on such a weapon. After the war, Einstein worked tirelessly (to the extent of physical and mental exhaustion) to put an end to the arms race.

Einstein did not build the bomb. And he never advised Truman to use it. He just wanted to U.S. to have it before Nazi Germany. Imagine if it had been otherwise.

I say Neither. Manson is a Demon.