"The Invisible Pink Unicorn wants us to brush her long, flowing mane and tail. But she wants us to brush her hair because we want to, not because we've been forced to. Her holiness the Invisible Pink Unicorn let's us choose whether we want to live in bliss brushing her hair or suffer eternal damnation shoveling her manure in the afterlife. It's up to us to choose. People who choose not to believe in the existence of the Invisible Pink Unicorn have made their choice, and with a heavy heart, she will respect their decision."

Arguments of the same vein coming from theists sound every bit as silly, and here's why:

1) A nonbeliever cannot "choose" to be apart or against something whose existence he/she disputes. Only those who believe in the existence of the Invisible Pink Unicorn in the first place can make a decision as to their loyalty to her.

2) "Free choice" is negated by offering reward in the afterlife for obedience and punishment for disobedience.

Still, even thoughI have no reason to believe the Invisible Pink Unicorn exists, I go around saying she does, just in case. After all, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by believing in her!



I'm off to bed.... Got a long day tomorrow I hope there are some intresting repsonses to this.... I was trying to push some buttons with this one I just hope I didn't push to hard!

From that one can argue that the Purple Oyster influenced those people not to believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn (blessed be her holy hooves) after they had already been aware of her holy hooves. So after hearing about her holiness they willfully rejected her and choose to shovel her crap for eternity. Serves them right I think... Those IPU-damned heathens with their pepperoni pizza!

The free choice you have is between her holy hooves and a slimey evil. In all her grace in strides she's given us all the chance to either want to brush her mane or to reject her love and kindless to shovel her crap. It isn't wrong of her for wanting worship or submission for a reward in the afterlife for she is great and almighty! Because if she didn't offer us the chance, we would all be doomed into the crap pits of the Purple Oyster. Purple Oyster is evil and scares me deeply... For I must believe so I don't get scared into thinking I will be his slave.

1) The law is still written in the hearts of non-believers and they will be judged according to their conscience. You do not have to believe in the laws of the US to still be under them. The same goes with God's law. No one is going to make you follow and you do not have to.

2) Free will is not negated and neither are the consequences of choices we make. You want to slap your wife do not be surprised she leaves. That is an example of free will and consequences. With freedom comes responsibility. The other animals have none and therefore are not responsible. Humans have all kinds of freedom, we can even destroy the planet (no other animal can do this) or our very own souls, but with it comes responsibility, we should take care of the planet (no other animal can do this) and our souls then, and the consequences will be there if we do not.

saying beleivers and non beleivers is splitting humanity in 2. there are alot more stages than just two. some people are past the point of trying to share their beleifs of the physically unprovable knowing that its a road to nowhere. others are caught right up in the idea of hell and fretting that they need to show others information they have found. they dont want to stand by and allow people to whisk themselves unknowingly to hell and not lend a hand. these people have been misled by centuries of dogmatic doctrine and are too caught up in the fear and guilt the doctrine provokes to allow themselves to question their beleifs.

you will find people fit your outlined logic but these people are a minority. the minority always ruins it for the majority.

i wonder if any preechers have successfully used fear to teach love?

The first course of action is the best. The second course is the true road to nowhere. If one cannot convert another in their day to day life by simply being a good Christian in action without saying one word until asked then they have FAILED. It matters not to me if the world goes to hell in a handbag since only myself and my immediate family are my responsibility when it comes to teaching the Word. When it comes to living the Word then all those in my daily life are my responsibility. There is a sharp difference for I shall instruct my family in the ways of the Lord but that has nothing to do with trying to force my beliefs on the world at large. I refuse to force my beliefs on the world at large as much as I resist anyone attempting to force their beliefs on me.

Flying sphagetti monster

im just going to pretend i didn't read that ^

i think that it is your decision wether or not you go to hell, you have the decisison wother or not to believe in God, therefore you have the decision to go to hell or not. if you chose God, you choose Heaven. Anything else = Hell

what will you chose?

Not too hard a push, at least that I noticed. Seems like a standard satirisation of Theistic beliefs. Strange though that for all its popularity, I do not think there is a single true believer in the IPU. But if there were so, it would negate your pagan beliefs as much as it would my Christian ones. Just a thought

Your right I'm glad someone caught that! Strange thought run though your head when you dead tired!

^ I can relate, norwood. Last week I was living off 3 hours sleep a night trying to fit in work, university, prac-placement, assessments and UM Hope you get some good rest, mate. All the best,

Im not sure i really got your point with this post which is why ive included it so i can read it as i write.

As to point one, the act of choice is in whether you believe in the ipu. Lets assume it is pure faith based belief rather than, like mine a knowledge based "belief"

First, you would look at the stated nature and purpose of the ipu and see if she fitted into your current ethical system and world view. If she did not, then she would need to have some convincing attributes and arguments for you to believe in her on faith. While the ipu apparently does not, "god" in a multitude of forms, apparently continues to provide some convincing attributes/arguments for his believers. Perhaps tradition holds some sway. but what is it about god which apparently convinces modern educated people, in western societies to simply accept his existence on faith.

In my opinion the universal appeal of god breaks down into two parts. A promise of immortality, and a socio economic and political/legal system which in its core principles, has rarely if ever been bettered as a way to operate a civil society. Unfortunately rarely, if ever, has a true, christian based, society develped, due to the secular influence of western rulers. However some islamic states and possibly those of other religions have come close to producing very safe and constructive societies . At times in history societies based on jewish laws have also been very successful.

There is nothing wrong inherently, with equivalent secular based ethical systems on which to organise individual lives and those of society, but history shows that these lack the emotional appeal to succeed. Be it through fear, or through love, gods moral laws continue to provide more motivation to act morally than any equivalent secular ethical system.

Peole still seem to see enough value in these too atributes of god to accept his existence, and his word, on faith.

Free choice is perhaps a misleading term although accurate.Humans have the ability to choose. That freedom is absolute, non conditional and thus free (without limitations or restrictions).So it fits that definition of free. It is not negated by what you see as conditions placed on it. Lets take something out of a religious context. There are many actions in life which we freely take, knowing the consequences of our actions and the pros and cons of our decisions. None the less we take them because we are free to take them Taking up smoking, drinking and driving , having unprotected sex witha stranger, and less obvious ones, like lying to another person and even lying to ourselves or being hypocritical. The fact we know the consequences good and bad, neither negates the free choice nor prevents us from making unwise choices. Plenty of peole will decide for a multitude of reasons not to take up gods offer of immortal life. Humans are naturally short sighted and opportunistic. Many will trade of a life of sybaritic pleasure for an eternity of life which they may nort even see as appealing. Of course if they absolutely knew for a certaintity that god existed and that eternal life or eternal death were two equally real possibilities then they might act differently.

And just perhaps, this is the reason god does not reveal himself fully and incontrovertibly to all. We must make these decisions based on the person we are, and the person we want to be, because we truly believe that is the right way to live rather than because we see no other choice. Heaven/the new earth will not have any place for those who dont truly want to be there, because such peolpe could not live and operate in the sinless environment existing there. If you choose to hang onto your sins/sinful nature then it is not possible physically for you to enter into heaven. Instead you must die the second death of body and soul.

That is the choice we must make, and it must be made in faith to be a truly free choice. It must be the life we want to live and what we desire above all else; above riches power even above family and loved ones if it comes to that. You have to give up all earthly desires to enter into the kingdom. The sacrifice of jesus and gods grace covers our sinful natures but it does not compensate for a person who continues to choose to sinand to live a life which brings harm to self and to others.

Thus many people will be unable to chose eternal life, and while i feel sorry for them, it is tempered by the fact that they make that choice freely and within their own hearts and desires.

I don't believe in heaven and hell in the traditional sense. I just wanted to say...



I disagree with this statement. Tough choices are still choices. People are responsible for a lot of what happens to them. If there was an obey god go to heaven / disobey god go to hell thing, every action a person makes would be a part of that choice.



This I agree with.



If the IPU exists to judge our mane-brushing skills or whatever, don't you think she knows if you are faking it?

I dont bealive in hell or god, so yea doesnt bother me much.

A rose is a rose no matter what name it is called and it exists whether we have ever felt its soft petals or breathed in its perfume or not.

As to point one, the act of choice is in whether you believe in the ipu. Lets assume it is pure faith based belief rather than, like mine a knowledge based "belief"

MW how is your philosophy a "knowledge" based claim"???

Humans are naturally short sighted and opportunistic. Many will trade of a life of sybaritic pleasure for an eternity of life which they may nort even see as appealing. Of course if they absolutely knew for a certaintity that god existed and that eternal life or eternal death were two equally real possibilities then they might act differently.


MW, you have been convinced this is what is so,so you act/filter accordingly....

The things you are describing as pleasure would not be considered pleasure by all people....

there is no free choice in your analogy, perhaps you do not see this????

why would one one want to choose eternal life when it goes against everything we know about the natural world? I have a thought perhaps the fear of death, fear of change is being exploited for all its worth.....IMO


death is part of the process we call life .....

One of the hardest concepts I cannot understand is one that implies, if even silently, that nothing comes after death. Sure death is a natural part of life...this is something Christians can accept and it is not like atheist or agnostics have a monopoly on that realization. No, it does not have to be fear based just because that is the model some have. When you experience the Spirit you are more convinced the promises of eternal life are there, it is a joy, not a fear to have trust in that. Everything we know in the natural world is not worth basing my decision in how to prepare for the afterlife.



Is not your view also based on being convinced of something and acting/filtering accordingly? Atheist/agnostics do not have some kind of exemption from this.

Been through this. iIdont have a belief in gods existence, i have a knowledge that he exists.The fact that you cannot accept, or believe this, is not germane to my argument in this case.


Actually this was an observed fact, followed by an opinion, clearly stated as an opinion. "then they might" kinda gives that away.



Then why would they motivate peole as they do. (oh of course a true masochist may be motivated by pain rather than pleasure. Come on. How many people do you know who say, "well im not going to give up a life of fear, misery, pain, suffering, and poverty to go to heaven"
On the other hand, people do not like giving up things that bring them physical or emotional pleasure/gratification, even when those things bring them severe physical harm, and they know this is so..Otherwise not a single person would take mind altering drugs, including alcohol.



As i stated it depends how you define free.By my definition, which is quite an acceptable dictionary definition of free, ie unhindered or unobstructed then there is free choice. Perhaps it is you who does not see this.




This is a fair and reasonable point of view, but it is one i have never held/shared. long before god found me, i had come to two conclusions.

Man is not a part of the natural world as we know it.. Philosophically and physically, for better or for worse man has stepped beyond the rest of the known natural world..We are no longer a part of it, and the sooner we realise that, the sooner we can get this world back as it should be.

Second for man, death is not inevitable. With god, or without him, man has spent most of his existence fighting death in large and small ways. Most of medicine and a lot of science is dedicated to this purpose.

With or without god, man will find away to become virtually immortal. Whether man, as is, can survive that experience is debatable, but history, and the nature of man himself, demonstrates that it is inevitable. So the seeking of immortality might extend to religion, but it is also one of the most earthly and material pursuits of mankind.

"Do not go gently into that dark night, but cry, cry ,cry, against the dying of the light" or words to that effect

I face death calmly and i hope bravely, and do so with, or without, any source of religious comfort, but if i had my choice, as future humans will, i would say "no thank you very much i would prefer to live," especially if i can do so in a way that preserves mental function and some degree of physical comfort.

Death has no terror for me ,but logically and rationally i do not like the idea of old age, and all the pain, discomfort and embarrasment that too often entails. I have a great curiosity, perhaps from looking back on the development of humanity as a history student and teacher as to what the next few centuries have in store for us.

Personally i believe they will be the best and most wonderful times for humanity, only exceeded by the years which follow them. as humanity spreads out in many forms across the galaxy and safeguards its, so far as we know, unique place in the universe.

Strange as it may seem to an outside observer i find no contradiction between this view and gods stated purpose, or future for us. Tto survive in space/the heavens, we are going to have to develop the sort of ethical and spiritual purpose god built into us, but which we constantly rail and fight against.

The true invisible pink unicorn can only be found within. You must, however, be ready and willing to welcome either the i.p.u. or the oyster equally.

Death has no terror for me ,but logically and rationally i do not like the idea of old age, and all the pain, discomfort and embarrasment that too often entails. I have a great curiosity, perhaps from looking back on the development of humanity as a history student and teacher as to what the next few centuries have in store for us.

Mw, In a culture tthat idolizes youth i can see why you would have concerns, it sure spotlights this huge fear of death IMO.......

I happen to be one of those that has no issues with the idea of death, i love getting older, i just turned 41, and i feel i am beautiful, i love the crows feet around my eyes they are all my smiles and I love the lines in my brow they are the many days i have languished lazily under sunnshiney skys with my delightful son and ponderred the universe and laughed over nothing but being alive........whilst . being kissed by the sun..

.I take very good care of myself ( I don't want to impede my childrens lives by being careless with mine) so i am in great physical shape , i take my diet very seriously i do not drink or smoke, i enjoy being healthy, and i have little to no stress, our lives are about fun if we can help it and we can..lol ...Getting older is so fun and I am grateful for the opp...., i could get botox ( lots of my freaked out freinds are) but instead i decided to go with the aging process with my beautiful aging hubby..i think age is a state of mind, an attitude..... i do not substitute things for pleasure i again find this to be a state of mind and really I keep my needs to a bare minimum.. the best things are truly the things in life that are free... sunsets, hugs, laughter, an ocean front view the warm sunshine the chance to be with my son sharing in his journey every step of the way...... I am so grateful to have a incredible mate to love , to find ways to be of service to my community etc.....

I am so busy living 'now' , enjoying my life ......... when i was a young un and i asked the older ones for advice most said the same thing , live your life as if you are gonna die tommorrow and dont' waste it on the things that it won't matter anyways and know the difference.....Life is so fast , a blink of an eye and if you have ever lost a loved one you will understand this....don't waste it on worry , laugh alot smile alot and have fun....... worry about the fullness of your moments .. don't just settle for a life live yours... and i took this seriously...........

You completely missed my point supra, but thats understandable, as, again, it grows from my own personal experience.

I dont envy youth. I am a much saner , rational, balanced, wiser and knowledgeable person than i was as a youth, and i spend a lot of my life trying to pass on if not my\knowledge and wisdom, then how to seek and find your own.

I see wonderful young people every day, and the most common feeling i have for them ,other than love, is a sense of pity that so few become what they could be.
I dont even envy them physical fitness, as menta lfitness has always been a much higher priority for me personally, and i see the trade off that naturally occurs between the two as the aging process goes on.

What i was alluding to, comes from the experiences i have talked of before of looking after my wifes parents for 6 years, as they degenerated further and further into altzheimers.

Try to imagine getting up in bed with your husband of 60 years, and not having a clue who he is. Try imagine not being able to do the simplest things for yourself, from dress, wash, clothe, or even feed yourself.T ry having no control of continence or bowels, and then imagine being at the point where you are not even aware of this, and so it does not concern or embrrrass you to let go, whenever nature so moves you.

It is the loss of all that makes me human that scares me, and yes i would rather be dead than have this happen. My wife has even asked me to ensure it never happens to her, by any means possible, but i have not made my mind up on that. My ultimate choice is neither to die, nor to grow old to this extent. I believe i have missed the opportunity for this by less than my own lifetime (50 years)

However, none of this drove me to some belief /rationalism about the existence of god. God came to me when i was young fit , healthy. and had never had the experiences i have now, or the thoughts which flow from them.

God has physically saved me from death many times, over 40 years, and that is the reason why i know that he is physically capable of, and interested in, providing me with a chance for immortal life.

A belief in the pink Unicorn is one thing, but even if you don't have the clean cut, everyone can see her proof, it's still not even debatable for prosetylizing when you cannot really see her, but just have faith that just exists instead.

by euthanasia:


How can you decide not to believe in something. You just believe, because of your own proof inside yourself, or you don't believe, because your inner self has no proof. That is not part of making a decision, that is happenstance. Your way, doesn't make sense.

by Mr. Walker:

To me, like I observed with the other poster, I think this is all based on happenstance type proof thinking, and not choosing in something that you already do not believe in and see no need in choose for or against it, because it's not there to make a choice about.



I'm curious, if you do indeed have knowledge, wouldn't it be able to pass on to others? I have knowledge of genetics, and I would be able to pass on the knowledge to you. I think knowledge is part of a thing, so yes you can say you have knowledge, but I think that it is still part of your belief that you have knowledge, until you are able to pass it to others, who see it as true knowledge. Until then, I am having a hard time thinking someone else just has the knowledge, and just keeps it to themselves. I think we are all biased to our own point of views.

I do my best but it is not easy. The nearest analogy iI can think of is the early british sailors who came to australia and saw animals like the kangaroo and platypus. They could take home drawings, but the actual specimens, if any, were kept by the officers or scientific personel. Thus their descriptions were met with disbelief and mirth. Even if other sailors confirmed their sightings, it was thought the sailors were just colluding on a practical joke, because everyone knew that, in all the wide world, such animals did not exist, and thus how could they exist in Australia.

There was no technology to capture the images or other records of the animals.

I cant offer pictures of god, or little pieces of him. All ican do is describe my experiences, as accurately and objectively as possible.

Now I appreciate that some hallucinations and delusions are apparently indistinguishable from physical reality (at least so i am told. I have never been able to consciously visualise anything in my imagination and i dont think i have ever seen something which did not have a physical existence)

Be that as it may. My experiences can be confirmed by independent witnesses and some physical corroborating evidence exists. Also some of the experiences are absolutely impossible to explain without an acceptance of the ability to physically see the future, to read minds, and to travel through space and time, in what are commonly called out of body experiences. That these things happen to me on a semi regular basis over more than 40 years is incontrovertible and there are probably hundreds of withesses to these experiences being based on truth.

What is open to some debate is the nature and cause of these events. Due to more personalised comunications from an enity also capable of all these things, i tend to lean to a classical definition of god, as the underlying author and facilitator of my experiences.

I am open to being convinced that there is another probabiity. but so far i have never found one which meets standards of logic and proof. Coincidence is often put forward as an alternative. but this is statistically less likely/probable than some form of paranormal cause, and in any event, could only explain a small percentage of my experiences.

I am a writer, and i love words as a form of communication. Thu,s over several years on um, i have written all i could to pass on my knowledge to others. I can do no more, and i have no obligation to do any more. What people make of what i write will be entirely up to them, how open their minds are, and how fixed their current world views are.

I have no driving urge or desire to convert or convince others. I write only to help some peole understand that they may also experience real and physical contact with a real and physical god.

You may (probably) have recounted this before....but what did these other people see? And what is the physical evidence?

Lol I suppose it's gonna be hell then.

But can you choose to believe things that don't make sense/reflect reality/you have insufficent knowledge of? In what other areas of your life do you do that? I don't really feel it is a choice to believe something or not. Perhaps that is just the way by brain works though. I wouldn't say it is a choice to believe whether or not there is a monster under my bed or that the sun exists - these things are built on prior knowledge.

I generally make judgments based on a variety of things, such as evidence, rather than choices between things that are divorced from reality.

How much do you have to hear of God for it to count as a rejection? Do you read the word God once, have it explained in school, read the Bible etc....

Edit: Yipee found an article that explains it better
http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyepis...eliefChoice.htm

"... Now I'll give you something to believe. I'm just one hundred and one, five months and a day."

"I can't believe that!" said Alice.

"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes."

Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said "one can't believe impossible things."

"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast..."

- Lewis Caroll, Through the Looking Glass

And yessum it is now down below you too.......

lol only dozens of times most probavbly. It does me no good to recount them, in an attempt to convince people, and the only reason i continue to do so is that i suspect there are others out theer who have similar experiences, and due to the pressures of society not only shut up about them , but also start to disbelieve, first their own experiences and then their very sanity. That is not an acceptable outcome to me.

First you have to appreciate that i see the paranormal/ supernatural and "religious" experiences as part and parcel of the same thing with likely consistent causation and effects. i also think , based on the analysis of my own experiences, and the descriptions of many others over millenia, that their is intelligent cause and efect behind all these experiences. This belief is reinforced on a more personal and some would argue subjective level by the physical, verbal, and visual warnings and other messages which come to me regularly and have indeed saved my like on a number of occasions

"Psychic" paranormal experiences statted as young as i can remember. (i later found out that there is some history of a generalised ability in such areas in mmbers of my family going back several centuries at least)

Two of my earliest vivid memories are from about the age of 13 or 14. Before this i had long utilised controlled lucid dreaming and construction of dreamscapes as a form of entertainment from my earliest recollection, but have no confirming evidence that these were anything more than they appeared. two incidents occured close together whichscared me and stopped me both from further deliberate experimentation and also any discusssion of these events with anyone.

First i had what i thought was a lucid dream where i flew to a neighbouring house and hovered outside a bedroom where a number of girls my age were having a slumber party. i listened into their conversation for some time before flying off elsewhere

The next day at school i foolishly recounted my dream, including the several interesting bits of their converasation i had overheard.

Those details were so precise that the girls told the school and eventually the police that i must have been listening outside their window. Only the fact that 3 adult family members could verify that i was home asleep in my bedroom at the time, saved me from very serious trouble.

Second i was experimenting with a best friend trying to read cards as he turned them over. I got about a dozen correct in a row and he was becoming nervous, when it seemed i was getting them wrong and he began to relax . however by the time we got to about half the pack it became obvious that i was calling the cards accurately before he turned them over and saw them. thus i was visualising or precoging the cards before they were seeen by him. He physically fled in terror and i learned a valuable lesson.

Alll my life little abilities like this have been a part of it. I have had several identical obe experiences as far away as canada and others closer to home where what i saw and heard were confirmed as accurate by those i observed. I have predicted things big and small in my own life and have taken to writing down my very strong precog moments to show other peole so that i have some proof.

I have seen, and thus found the location of, lost and stolen objects of both staff and students, winning a few free meals along the way. .These occurences are random, I do not seek them out and i only carry through with them to benefit others.There are hundreds of students and many staff over the years who have witnessed the accuracy of these events and could testify to them, but individually few would appreciate what a cumulative number there have been .I also had several physical precog moments which saved my life

When i was 21/22 i had my first experience of a "religious " paranormal event. Basically a classical ange(pillar of fire) manifested lighting up most of my front yard and told me he had just taken aay a nicotine addiction i had been developing for over 5 years( i was up to over a packet a day) All physical addiction and all physical symptoms of addiction were immediately removed and from that point 35 years ago i never had anothe rrcigarette or displayed any physical desire for one.
This naturally somewhat focussed my attention on what was a new concept for me . I was university educated, a child of the 60's an an absolute skeptical atheist. At first i refused to recognise what had happened to me, and only through further communications from and miracles by god did i come to be convinced/

However as my heart and mind opened up to alternative realities and possibilities it is true that i began to see and understand things more clearly and recognise many of my lifes paranormal events for wha they were. God continued to send visions and warnings of the future some for fun and some as deadly warnings of oncoming tragedy in my life. The warnings saved my life several times. It is hard to recognise precognition on most occasions, but sometimes it is so powerful that you have no choice. On a number of occasions i told others of what i saw and wrote it down. These events came true, often precisely as envisaged but at othertimes more symbollically.However by being able to recognise what i had previously seen i was able to take actions altering that future and time thus save my life again on each occasion..
The most convincing miracles iny life include these One year before i had received a prohetic dream that i would die 3 times. By being stabbed in the heart, being burned alive, and falling from a steep high cliff. I had woken up and told my wife of this dream, it was so vivid and powerful.
One day at school i felt symptoms i did not consciously recognise but which sub conscously reminded me of that dream. I was taken from work to the doctors and then flown by the RFDS air ambulance to my capital city. There i was informed i needed an urgent triple by pass. While i was there i was visited by my second angel.

I was worried because 1 in 100 peolpe die in this op and i was miles away from friends and family.A young well dressed man walked into my private room and left me a bible. He exited by some french windows on the other side of the room. I opened the bible at random, placed my finger on a page and read. It said to paraphrase,'Fear not for iam watching over you and no harm shallcome to you" Immediately i felt a great burden lift to be replaced by a great joy and a certainty that all would be well.

I hobbled over to the doors, Monitoring equipment attached, to try and catch/thank the young man. I exited onto a small private balcony, 5 floors above the ground, and complete separate from any other balcony or verandah by many metres. At that moment i knew precisely who my visitor had been. Several nurses asked me who the cute young man was and to avoid any psychiatric assessment ongoing with my heart problems i said i thought he must be a religious worker of some type.
Sorry got to go. My wife wants me to get tea ,and is threatening physical damage to the computer. Theres lots more to recount but you will have to read some of my many posts on this topic

Mr. Walker:

Good answer.

Ok, ok, this is your knowledge, and I cannot dispute your knowledge. I may have to rethink the meaning of knowledge now. Although, this could mean to me, that I can have my own knowledge, and can be different from yours. The question is, are their varying different kinds of knowledge, even it is about the same thing?

That is, I believe, how non-fiction books get written, to hope the knowledge gets passed on. But, it would also have to have sources in there too, right? Humor me on this, but informational books, would have a way of proving their information.
Or is your book a memoir?
Granted, I chose the book example, but I think I am seeing what you are trying to say.

I guess if I wrote a book, it would be an auto biography, of which the paranormal and religious experiences might not form either the biggest, or most interestng sections.
Simply my life as a child, growing up in small town Australia in the 1950's, is so incredible to young people today, that they do not believe any of the true stories i recount of my childhood. Because i have no interest in proving any of my experiences to be true, but just to recount, or put them on record, i would not worry about too much supporting evidence.

However, with permission , i might include the names of some of the people who witnessed not only the everyday joys of those days, but the more paranormal occasions.

Totally ot but some of the things we did as kids, which young people today disbelieve included; exploring networks of stormwater drains, torches attached to heads, while kneeling down on home made skate boards (these were not commercially available in Australia at the time.) Finding from novels and other sources the formula for gun powder and other explosives, then making our own to propel home made rockets from a few inches to 2 metres tall, using the same gunpowder to make mortars firing marbles and explosives powerful enough to bliow brick structures apart.

Only on one occasion did we get into any trouble, and even then, thanks to a chemical device whiich provided delayed ignition for the home made bomb we were able to escape real suspicion. At a young age we made weapons including ninja stars, bows ,cross bows, shanghais etc. We engaged in organised mock gang warfare in which injuries were few, and rarely serious. We made home made parachutes and jumped off buildings. We also used the parachute as a drag brake for push bikes. This resulted in the only serious injury . The chute ripped the seat off one bike, and, unable to stop, the rider headed for a line of soft looking bushes. He hit a kerb and flew, like superman, two metres head first into the hedge.

Unfortunately when we went to extract him, we found that inside the hedge was a fence, with 3 lines of barbed wire. He had gone between two of the lines and was a bit cut up.. We would joust on our push pikes on the town oval, with broom handles for lances, and dust bin lids for shields. We also had secret societies using codes and invisible ink to send messages.

I blame this childhood on three things. Enid blyton and other books, very early tv programmes such as robin hood, the samurai and ivanhoe etc, and the encouragement of my parents to read and be a creative person. Today we would all be arrested and locked up for terrorist activities , but then it was all accepted as perfectly normal childhood behaviour and good clean fun.

The hardest part was finding acceptable reasons for the more noticeable injuries. One lad, shot in the cheek with a home made arrow, told his mum he had come off his bike and fallen into a rose bush. This was apparently accepted, because we heard no more about it. My most serious injury was a nearly amputated big toe caused when a rope i was swinging on from tree to tree (too much tarzan) broke and i fell to earth, landing on a piece of sharp corrrugated iron. I got through my childhood with no broken bones or concussion and only cuts and bruises and a few burns, .So did all my companions. Today young people find their kicks in drugs and alcohol, with much more tragic results.

Perhaps the Oyster(s) is nothing more than misinterpreted energy, and the IPU, nothing more than a byproduct of the Oyster(s), although some might produce rather interesting pearls if the conditions are just right.

While I'm aware that the numerous studies to date are only moderately strong correlations, the data need not be ignored as possible explanations to 'unexplained' happenings such as many have experienced and testified to here as objective evidence. Time and more research will tell, as is always the case. A few abstracts taken from studies of interest:

Behavioural Geomagnetic Correlates
The cells of all living systems are immersed within the earth's magnetic field. Life is likely to have evolved within and have been guided by the intrinsic temporal variations within the geomagnetic field. Most of their peak-to-peak intensities range between 1 picoTesla (one-trillionth of a Tesla) to over 1000 nT (1 millionth of a Tesla) within frequencies between 0.001 Hz (1 mHz) and 100 Hz. The larger intensities, between 50 nT and 1000 nT, involve slower variations. A component of this band is well within the major spectrum of electroencephalographic activity of the human brain and looks very similar to the classic shapes of "brain waves".

The complexities of these variations have not been measured because of their immensity. However they have the potential to simulate every known electromagnetic pattern that mediates the effects of the brain's own neurotransmitters upon cell receptors and to imitate all of the consequences of pharmacological agents (drugs). Many of these complex geomagnetic patterns occur during or following geomagnetic storms whose yearly frequency is in large part controlled by solar activity. Because the nearly seven billion (almost identical) brains of human beings on this planet are immersed in this field there may be emergent fields that under certain conditions affect large populations. The effect would be analogous to applying a magnetic field through billions of copper wires. Magnetic fields (tenors) would emerge that would have the capacity to be affected by ad to affect the characteristics of the individual conductors (wires) that generated them.

We have found moderately strong correlations between the amount of daily global geomagnetic activity and the occurrence of epileptic seizures, aggression, immunological responses, and ambulatory behaviour. Even the propensity to report experiences about death and crisis of others is associated with quiet periods of geomagnetic activity. Certain increments of activity, which are likely to reflect different "complex patterns", have been implicated in the occurrence of Sudden Infant Death and electrical cardiac anomalies resulting in death in subpopulations of adults. A correlation between two variables does not necessarily mean causation. Consequently we have imitated specific geomagnetic patterns by the special application of a computer technology. When we simulated these natural conditions in the laboratory by applying experimentally generated magnetic fields within the 50 nT range seizures in epileptic rats were elicited with the same incidence and latency as those associated with increases in natural geomagnetic activity. Source

Precog
‘ ...(156 legitimate) first hand precognitive cases that contained the days, months, and years of the experience and the event were obtained from all of the publications of FATE magazine (approximately 450 issues). ...(these cases were analyzed against) measures of global geomagnetic activity for the years 1867 to the present. ...values were obtained for the day of the experience (of precognition) and the day of the event (that validated the precognition) and for each of the three days before and three days after the experience and the event.

...These results support the hypothesis that precognitive experiences tend to occur during periods when the geomagnetic activity is similar to what the geomagnetic activity will be at the time of the event (it predicted). Reference: Lewicki, Douglas R., Schaut, George H. & Persinger, Michael A. ‘Geophysical Variables and Behavior: XLIV. Days of Subjective Precognitive Experiences and The Days Before the Actual Event Display Correlated Geomagnetic Activity' Perceptual and Motor Skills 1987, 65, 173-174 Source

OBE's
‘...the greatest subjective intensity of out-of-body-like experiences was reported primarily for those subjects who ...(were most prone) ... on those days when the geomagnetic activity ranged between 16 nT (nanoteslas) and 45 nT. ... (There is a) concurrence between daily geomagnetic activity and the enhanced experiences of detachment of the self from the body for individuals whose brain's are most prone to generate these experiences.' [Earlier]...'The results of this study support the hypothesis that sensitivity or lability of portions of the brain which are most correlated with the reports of ...(subtle altered states of consciousness)... are sensitive to a component of geomagnetic activity ... The likelihood that there is some particular frequency or pattern of information which is probabilistically associated with this range of intensity variation in global geomagnetic activity must be considered.'

...'(An) exploratory hypothesis (to explain the result) is that the neurocognitive processes which are associated with the generation of the sense of self are coherent or intercalated with some unspecified feature of the steady-state or quiet component of the geomagnetic field. During periods of perturbation (increased geomagnetic activity) ... the sense of self can ... be discriminated as different from the body ...' .Reference: A. Persinger, ‘Out-of Body -Like experiences are More Probable in People With Elevated Complex Partial Epileptic-Like Signs During Periods of Enhanced Geomagnetic Activity: A Nonlinear Effect' Perceptual and Motor Skills, 1995, 80, 563-569 Source

Wow! IS, How interesting..thankyou for posting this....

I agree with Sheri, very very fascinating IS.

Well obviously, even god has his good days and his bad days

This is fascinating because in scientific jargon it is saying what i have intuitively felt about the universe. not only do things like precognition and obes actually exist/happen within the real world, but they are connected (even if causality is not yet etablished) in some physical way to the nature and physical operation of the universe.

It is one of the few papers i have seen actually recognising precog and obes as valid physical experiences. (and at least with the precog it seems to accept accuracy of prediction)

It still doesnt explain how a future event, which has not occured along a linear time line can be observed, of course, or how one person's mind can "ëxpand/travel" virtually around the world in real time, or interact with the minds of others; and i am really interested to find the scientific explanation for this as well.

I believe it is a part of a natural connectivity which exists across time and space in the universe. From my personal experiences only, and the reading about/observation of similar experiences, i believe this connectivity also has a sentience and a purpose. When humans experience this, they often define it as god.

Thanks guys.

Belle, I couldn't help but lol when I saw your new avi and sig. I love 'em.

I've been doing research on Lewis Carrol for the past couple of weeks. We be in sync.



I'll be happy to share more fascinating studies with you, should you be interested, Mr. Walker. They may avail answers to some of your questions.

Just let me know, and I'll be happy to PM them to ya.

~V