Tonight my group had a seminar. It was pretty good, a nice turnout, everything went well. We answered all the questions asked and everyone left feeling they learned something. Well, after the seminar a man stayed behind. Thinking this man was waiting till everyone left to ask us more questions, or needed a case, or perhaps join, I asked him if we could help him. He walked up sternly and said softly,

"You are playing with fire!"

He then asked us, "Do any of you attend church?" Only one of the 3 holding the seminar did....Then he continued to start his......argument.

"I think what you guys do as far as equipment is fine, but let me be the first to say, everyone has it all wrong."

At this point I am putting my laptop in its case while thinking, oh great..

He continues....

"Basically what you guys are doing is a slight against God, it is witchcraft. There are NO good spirits, in fact, all spirits are bad. They are fallen angels under Satans Rule."

At this point in time, a woman came in and started talking to me about her investigation coming up on the 24th. So my attention went from him to her. While doing so, the two other investigators there were talking with this man as he was trying to drive his beliefs into our "koolaid"

He finally left before I can finish up with the woman but basically, he promised us that we are working for Satan and that we will feel Gods Wrath soon enough.

Has anyone else ever encountered someone like this? My sister's co-worker said if she attends the seminar that she is supporting witch-craft as well. What kind of religion thinks this way? I mean when he said all ghosts are bad I wanted to ask.....um..what about the Holy Ghost?

I guess this man plans on attending our two other seminars wed and thurs but perhaps bring some more people. Eh, as long as word gets out I guess

I believe they call it "ignorance is bliss" group, these are the kind of paranoid people that burned people at the stake...

Ask him why he is not in a prayer meeting on wednesday like most churches do. Ask him next time he comes to prove that HIS god is the real one and the way HE bleieves is the RIGHT way and if he produces follow him out the door and right to my house cause i will follow him as well. BUT sadly he will not be able to produce God...why you ask?? because ANY RELIGON IS BASED ON...FAITH. even his own BIBLE states that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God...what does that mean? its means if you read THEIR bible and hang out with them long enough you will start believing that way...adopting that faith. doesnt that make that faith the right one??!?! or that god the real one or the only one??!?! NOPE ! It is simply the one you have chosen to place your faith in and there is nothing wrong with that as long as you dont hurt anyone because of your religous belifs. the next time this man comes invite him to join you as long as he can be "open minded" about what you are expressing...if he can't then kindly ask him to leave and take his close minded ignorant attitude with him.

See this is exactly the kinda thing that gets me every time.Just because there is a beleif that all earth bound spirits are fallen angels, and that they are agents of the devil, does not mean that a person who is seeking knowledge or infact investigating said phenomenon is practicing anything other than science.Truely, If a spirit is really a demonic energy or being, then the only way to cast it out of ones life would be to use the power of god, and if that is the case, then it is not beyond the power of god to use any means at his disposal to do so, including any human he see's fit to use to get the job finished.

It always gets me that in this day and age, people tend to become too judgmental,and seek to discredit others if they do not believe exactly what they believe.I have said this before on these forums "only god can turn man to god", and in the bible there are examples of how god used people who had no faith or belief in god to get his message across to other people.Real faith, comes through the word of god, through belief, and more importantly real love of your fellow human beings.That was the most important message the bible had to offer.It says more than anything else in the bible that you should love your neihbor as you would loveyourself.It says in the bible more than anything else that you should not opress the stranger,which goes along with not judging people for their beliefs or cultural differances.It also says we should take on one anothers burdons, and help each other out, therefore if one is being plagued by a spirit or haunting in any way shape or form, then why wouldn't a person "not nessisarily a religious person" help his fellow human being out by investigating the root causes by any means.

In this day and age there are still people who will judge and condem others in there own mind, and it is the same mentality that certain people had when they wielded the power to actually put people to death for their beliefs or lifestyles.It clearly says in the bible that gods wrath is clearly reserved for god himself, that vengence is his and his alone, not some guy who seems to want to take it upon himself to tell others what he thinks god will be angry with.It clearly states not to judge others!There is really one huge basic message to the bible, and what gets me, is that people tend to miss the big picture all the time,"To love one another".According to the bible we are already trapped by original sin, we are already condemmed through the sin of the flesh, and only by the power of god, through the sacrifice of christ are we set free of such sin.

I see people like this, From a religious and psycological stand point, people tend to be afraid to expose the darkness within themselves, they are afraid to shed light withing themselves and exposed what lies in that darkness.Therefore they tend to be judgemental of others, when in reality they are really being judgemental of themselves in one way or another.Self condemnation, anger,and any other negativity, can generally surface and be projected at others, mostly because people are afraid to bring light into themselves and get rid of the darkness.It is a very frightening thing to do, and it is one of the hardest fights we can have as a human beings, to expose what lies in that inner darkness.That inner darkness is filled with chaos and turbulance,and to quell it one must expose it with light."god says he loves a quite soul".

I don't mean to rant, but "lol", it just gets me that there are still people who use religion in this way.I mean are we still gonna see another salem witch trials, or another spanish inquisition?The answer could be yes, which is a scary thought, and as we all know there were alot of innocent people put to death.

My opinion is to take his advise with a grain of salt.

Cry Wolf.
Oh goodness! what an encounter. My suggestion is to be careful with and of this individual.
I know the natural inclination is to talk with the lady who you had a up coming case with, but by not listening to him you might have upset him more. Granted two of the PI team did talk with him but that may not be enough for this guy.
He may be content by having stated his case to the other two members but if he comes back and is disruptive, you may end up having to having to get a restraining order on this guy.

His statement that makes me the most nervous is, I would had to asked him what he meant by that? If he meant that in the fire and brimstone abstract way then, OK.. However, I wonder if he thinks he is God's instrument of that wrath?

I have encountered someone like this and it had nothing to do with PI investigations. I was handing out leaflets for an art project that I was involved in and this guy asked me if the art project was of Satan.
I was completely taken off guard by this guys response. It came out of nowhere. I told him no, that it was just a comic, meant for entertainment. But he still wanted to know how I knew it wasn't Satanic in it's origins.
Because I am one of the artist on the project and I'm not a Satanist.
(So then the classic) How do you know that Satan didn't trick or use you to draw it then? Or that you are an agent of the Devil? (and I could tell that he was just getting started)

There is nothing that anyone can say to someone like this. No amount of reason or patience will convince someone of this mindset that they are being offensive. I did the best thing I could do which was to tell him to have a nice day, remove myself from the conversation and walk away. Later I told the people on the project with me about the guy so that they could be on the look out for him should he show up at the business. The fliers of the project had the studio address on it to generate business. Thankfully, he never showed up there but I did have a tense couple of days wondering.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who feel this way.
Be safe!
Regards,
Mabon.

This is what the majority of the Christian religions believe. If you ask anyone who is a religious figure they will tell you exactly what the person you spoke to said. It is especially true with Catholicism. GOD doesn't make mistakes and leave human souls stuck in limbo on earth. That is what they believe. Anytime you have a haunting it is always demons, even if the haunting is a dead relative. It is a demon trying to lull you into a false sense of security...blah blah blah.

I am surprised you have never heard anyone speak to you about this until now. I have talked to various religious figures over the years about exorcisms and what not. I always know to be very careful what I say around them. It doesn't take much for them to start preaching about ghost hunting being wrong.

I know that the Jehovah Witnesses believe that all spirits are bad, mostly because they believe that when people die, they are dead until resurrection and that Satan is a great deceiver. I know this because I study with them. Rather than go into some lengthy explanation that will probably get picked apart anyways, I wonder why this man was at your seminar in the first place. While JWs do hold this belief, they also believe that they should not associate with anything that is contrary to their beliefs - hence, they wouldn't even be at a seminar of this type. So I'm not so sure this guy was a JW anyhow. If he crosses your path again, maybe you could ask him why he holds that belief and what religion, if any, he associates himself with. Also, JWs wouldn't say you'd be facing the wrath of god, because they would believe (in their eyes) that you are deceived by Satan and innocently doing something you think is right and for good, and the wrath of God is reserved for people who knowingly do bad things. So, I'm not so sure this guy would be a JW, but it is interesting that he was even at your seminar to begin with if he was so strong with his beliefs. Did he think that it was his job to warn you or something? It doesn't seem like his actions were very christian-like in the end.

First let me start off by saying I am a Christian and I take my faith very seriously. Recently I was with another group of Christians and we all started talking and somehow it was brought up that I was a Paranormal Investigator. The room got silent, I swear to you guys I thought I was getting ready to go into the oven. So right away this chick named Shannon whom I had never met before starts going into this speech about why would you even want to do anything like that, blah blah blah. First of all I explained I am not going against anything in the Bible, I’m not conjuring spirits, I am not practicing Necromancy, divination or astrology. I explained we use common sense and science then I was cut off by these words "suffer not a witch to live" and I started to get the same speech you got about how there is no such things as ghosts, they are all tricks of Satan. So I thought about when Jesus walked on water and the disciples thought he was a ghost. Jesus said a ghost is not made up of Flash and bone. So I asked if ghosts don’t exist how come Jesus just didn’t say so? I got no answer just more ridicule. This is how I view it, if your out there helping people and easing there mind how can it be wrong? Noah I don’t know your religious background but next time someone starts to judge you and spit scripture at you, don’t defend yourself say something like “what you do is between you and your god. What I do is between me and mine.” Or spit scripture back at him, like Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

Another thing I find fascinating is early Christians believed in spirit guides and reincarnation. But if you mention that, you'd probably get stoned.

Not necessarily I am half Mexican and every one of my Mexican relatives is strict old school Catholics, and they believe very much in ghosts. Not evil ghosts but just ghosts. There is a saying my cousin says and it makes me laugh cause it’s very true “if you meet a Mexican, chances are they will always have the same two things in common in there household. They will have a Virgin Mary statue and a ghost.”

Ah the good old bible pushers....i've come across people but they havnt ever forced anything like that upon me. I attend church sometimes, i'm methodist christian, i believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I see God as my savior from darkness, i accept him, but i'm also open minded, i've never had anyone force upon me their beliefs and trying to call me a saintist for it. I agree, "ignorence is a bliss" many people who are ignorent are also stuck up. Some people do not see that. What i would of said then is if this is witch craft what does that make the church when they preform Exorcisms? honestly isnt that a ritual in it'self as well? it's just like investigations, revealing the truth (though we dont know if exorcisms are truely true). But you think if this is witch craft, isnt an exorcism witch craft as well? everything has chants, even the Lords Prayer is a chant. I honestly want to come across someone like this, i can make a good case against them and stand behind what i believe and show these people you shouldnt be forcing things upon other people. Keep us informed if he does anything else, but yeah ask him if this is Saitanic stuff, what does that make an Exorcism? and honestly ask him bout the Holy Spirit, also Jesus rose from the dead after three days. There many things you can argue this person back upon, dont let him force anything upon you, but take it openly as well.

yeah good say, i honestly agree show him your knowledge of the bible in which thou shall not judge others. Thy shall love thy neighbor and thy enemies, really use what Black Swamp is saying, i agree, show him things in the bible that are used. Yeah i also agree this isnt Necromancy, we arnt summoning the dead to the living, were merly contacting them to try to prove that tehre are such enties out there that still exists. Jesus spoke with the dead, others spoke with such enties, Evil and Good. Yeah you are helping others and doing a good thing, your showing your heart to others. I honestly think this guy is just Ignorant.

Yikes... C.W.

I hope he doesn't cause trouble for you guys!? Just remain professional, and I hope he doesn't get under your skin too much. Try to keep your composure my friend.
I know you too well!

I'm not very religious, but I believe in God. In the Bible it even talks about spirits, the holy ghost etc; In history & Church always preach to us that even Jesus had come back from the dead. And so forth... I don't know what church this person goes to, but he sounds mean and nasty. I'd avoid him best as possible.

Unfortunately you will come across alot of people that think what we do is "playing with fire". Religion & science dont mesh well so you will get alot of nutty people telling you that what you're doing is the devil's work. You just have to nod & smile the next time someone comes preaching about such nonsense. Everyone has different beliefs & having people force their own beliefs on everyone else is ignorant. I dont pay much attention to people like that.

If my church ever found out I was a paranormal investigator I would probably be excommunicated.

Our group was surprisingly called to do an investigation at a church. The associate pastor was actually the one who contacted our founder. I didn't go on the first investigation, but I will be on the second one which is pending. Even he, I'm told, was somewhat uncomfortable about the situation, requesting only a skeleton crew team, and to make sure we were there when no one else, church employees or parishioners would be there. Religious people are often bothered by the paranormal because it seems to contradict the scriptures, in a way. 'It is appointed once to die the death, and then the judgement.' It is hard for them to grasp the concept of earthbound spirits. The way I see it though, is the majority of hauntings are residual and not intelligent. Its a sort of psychic residue that we leave behind, an impression. Its not a soul. In the case of intelligent hauntings, it seems to be typically connected with either traumatic events, or an obsession with things on the material plane that keep entities here. Sure, I guess some spirits would be bad, but speaking scientifically, we don't have enough proof to make a claim one way or the other. If you take theology out of the equation entirely, and base it solely on the evidence we have of the parnanormal, it only proves that we don't know that much of the spirit realm, or the hereafter. I mean, that's our purpose as a paranormal investigator, to find tangible proof of these things. How is that an agent of the demonic?

I think the proof of ghosts should encourage them, not make them angry or even afraid, because we are trying to prove that there is something beyond this mortal life. Where is the harm in that? I consider myself to be a very spiritual person, and yes, I pray frequently, but I've been interested in the paranormal all my life. I consider it an honor to be a paranormal investigator; I want to find tangible evidence of life after death, even though I have strong faith that there is.

The sad thing is, I think paranormal investigators often get a bad rap because of the idiots in our field. You know, there's no standard, so anyone can do it....pick up a recorder and a digital camera, and boom, you're good to go....so they come out with these wild frauds, because they want everything to be haunted. Its like the show Most Haunted everywhere. You hear a strange noise and the place is obviously haunted. Come on! And then of course, you have the psychics.....these guys are the worst. There are so many Derek Acorahs running around its sickening.

Before I joined my group, our founder decided to take on a 'sensitive' for awhile, just to try it. Well I guess this guy was a real looney. He'd go into a house and say things like, 'oh, you definetly have an evil presence in your home'. WTF? Who says that? You want to scare the living daylights out of the homeowners? And of course, no evidence of any kind to back up his insane claims. These people only hinder our credibility, both to the religious community, and the scientific community. The TAPS philosophy is the right one. Go into a place expecting it NOT to be haunted, as there is probably a natural explanation 80% of the time.

This subject is not a joke, and it shouldn't be taken lightly, it is not for these crass thrill seekers. If we ever want to be respected thse people must be weeded out.

This is why I chose to switch to being an Agnostic. I don't have to pertain or confine myself to one religion. Since entering the field of the Paranormal, I have so many beliefs and look at life differently.

Thanks guys. It was definitely crazy but in all honesty, I am thankful that I was preoccupied by someone else and was unable to listen to this guy. I am far from religious, but the thing I hate the worst is to be preached to. Even the woman who came in and was talking to me had to stop a few times and whisper, "is he for real?" We have encountered it on different levels and like I told the members, we will continue to have our run ins. I would never be disrespectful of someone and their beliefs but I won't back down from my own. I hope he does come to our seminars tomorrow and thursday, I would like to talk to him in depth on what exactly he meant by all the things he said. We record our seminars so hopefully he does the same and we will catch it on video.

I wonder if it will ever get as crazy as having picketers and protestors outside our seminars lol.

Pluto, I am Agnostic as well

Cool... C.W.

I hope it doesn't get as far as picketers or protesters!? LOL

You'll have to hire the Paranormal Task Force to protect you!? They own bullet proof vests!

lol I dig their look Pluto... it was quite humorous. CW if that guy comes in again, you really should just ask him why he comes to your seminars. If he's so religious & believes it's "playing with fire", then why waste time going down to listen to people talk about a subject y ou think is evil. People are so ignorant, it kills me.

I think that no matter where you go you are going to run into people like this, the problem is that there are many religions that do feel that what we do is witchcraft, or going against god. the reality is that your belief system is gold, and people should respect that, whether they agree with it or not. I consider myself to be "non traditionally" religious, and my quest for proving the existence of ghosts is a spiritual quest. If Einstein never questioned the things that people said were impossible, think about how boring our world would be right now. people like us, who go out there and work very hard to compile evidence for the world to scrutinize, are the future inventors, scientists, and role models. those that do nothing but preach one sided beliefs are the ones that will live their lives wondering why they never opened their minds

Yes it's true, i've actually heard of investigations where some priests will join in which they are there in attempt to cast them out.


The only thing is they believe they already know it exists and dont need further proof than their own religion.


I agree, i cant say i'm an investigator yet, but i'm learning and just sharing the things that i think, infact going on an investigation with someone who was part of a team before they ran into issues and disbanded, and a few others. Gonna get more equipment than my MP3, Video Camera and Digital Camera.

Our group just did an investigation of a private home, their church pastor had already been in the house to bless it, and when that didn't work they called us. It just totally depends on the religion, and how open minded the parish is, one of our group members is very involved in her church, and her pastor just laughs at her when she tells him that she investigates the paranormal.

ah interesting thats cool, yah i had an open converstation with someone at my church sometime ago about this stuff too.

We actually had a similar thing happen. We investigated a house which the owners thought had evil spirits. Well when we left the woman had clergy come in & told her that in order to get rid of the evil presence in her house, she had to get rid of anything paranormal in the house, not to call us back & not to watch anything paranormal on tv. Some of these people just take it way too far

Wow, a lot of interesting stuff!!! This stuff is funny, many people died and still die over religious battles. It is those kind of people who fuel it... Swamp, if they were true christians they wouldn't be judging you anyway. Judge not less thy be judge..." i mean i hate hipocrites at church of all places. Those are the same holy-er than though people that you see drinkin and partying on the non-church days.... if there is one thing i learned is that if you beleive in something and it is a self learned beleife, don't let anybody question that faith... Don't they kow you help people also... Do what you do pimpin!!! Wolf the best thing is what you did... Only you know how to handle that. You are a smart dude. Just kill him with kindness, and watch out for your fellow investigators backs. this could all be something god wanted us to do all along... In a society that is going so strongly scintificaly orientated, this may be a wake up call for a lot of foks... and to think that if god and all are beliefs are true, then what makes us think as humans that we would know what god really wants for us! Based on a book writen by man changed by man, we molded that book into our own human agenda... i wish we knew how it all really happened...! my beliefs by the way....

I also kind of equate this situation to how music has been looked at over the years.Some forms of music have been deemed at times the offspring of the devil himself,just because "lucifer was a musician".See now this is how they can let their imaginations run wild and misinterperate the bible.I find it immposible to believe that god would only make one being in the universe be able to be a musician.

Look at it this way CW, if they come to picked your seminar, maybe there will be a positive response for you, sorta like what happened when the christian community tried to do that with marilyn manson.

Also ,didn't king solomon have command over demons to do his bidding, while god sat on top of the ark of the covenant which rested in the holy temple in jerusalem.

In the story of job didn't satan present himslef in front of god and god gave him permission to torment job and nearly wipe out all that he had?Does this mean that god is guilty of witchcraft?

People are going to be so extreme in thier belief that they are going to be blinded to the reality of things, just be carefull, because fanatics are capable of anything sometimes.

People will interpret their religious beliefs however they feel like it. No matter how hard you try to stay out of that kind of drama, being in this field, the drama will follow you. Those people have nothing better to do & are usually the closet freaks. That's why they try to preach to others to "save them" because they cant save themselves from the many skeletons they have. It's usually those super religious bible-beaters that are the child molesters, porno addicts or wife beaters.

I still don't get it myself: If the guy thinks we're playing with fire, why did he show up? He probably doesn't believe in it ( obviously ) and wants to rant about it.

I have The Paranormal Task Force on my friends list on Myspace if you need it C.W.