QUOTE (Mattshark @ Jun 1 2008, 04:25 AM) 
The thing is occasionally people will get pregnant using contraception, it is not a black and white case.
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Full Version: Abortion
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
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QUOTE (will_1835 @ Jun 1 2008, 02:23 AM)
well, there are lots of gods out there. There not all the same. neither of the things you mention are a part of the Christian god
Hi fellow Burner,
My answer to that would derail this topic. If you are feeling slightly masochistic, then go ahead and start a topic on this.
Then I would have a comment or two........or three .
QUOTE (will_1835 @ Jun 1 2008, 02:27 AM)
I think the other problem is, I don't see how the Bible works. The things Jesus taught do not correlate to the Hebrew Scriptures. Some things tie in and similar, but they are definately separate schools of thought.
You can't take something written 1500 years before Jesus, attributed to Moses or someone else, and use it to put Jesus down. That doesnt make sense, and just makes you look bad.
You can't take something written 1500 years before Jesus, attributed to Moses or someone else, and use it to put Jesus down. That doesnt make sense, and just makes you look bad.
i just read this, I think you are right
QUOTE (Mattshark @ Jun 1 2008, 01:25 PM)
The thing is occasionally people will get pregnant using contraception, it is not a black and white case.
There's always a risk. My motto - if you're not willing to have a child, don't have sex. As you say, contraception is not always 100% effective. There are always consequences, and just because we don't expect a consequence (pregnancy) does not mean that it will not happen, and imo one needs to be accountable for that possibility.I understand that this is only my opinion. I do of course respect the Rights of a person to choose for themselves - even though I may disagree with their eventual decision, it is theirs to make, and theirs to live with.
All the best,
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 1 2008, 07:35 AM)
There's always a risk. My motto - if you're not willing to have a child, don't have sex. As you say, contraception is not always 100% effective. There are always consequences, and just because we don't expect a consequence (pregnancy) does not mean that it will not happen, and imo one needs to be accountable for that possibility.
I understand that this is only my opinion. I do of course respect the Rights of a person to choose for themselves - even though I may disagree with their eventual decision, it is theirs to make, and theirs to live with.
All the best,
I understand that this is only my opinion. I do of course respect the Rights of a person to choose for themselves - even though I may disagree with their eventual decision, it is theirs to make, and theirs to live with.
All the best,
Good philosophy, however, as a mom of four kids, divorced, but in a stable relationship, using protection, I am not sure I would want to have to face another pregnancy at this stage. (Hypothetically. I'm not sure I could abort, but I'd be glad for the choices, I'm sure!)
It isn't just unmarried teens having to face this problem. I think a lot of us here forget that.
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 2 2008, 05:41 AM)
Good philosophy, however, as a mom of four kids, divorced, but in a stable relationship, using protection, I am not sure I would want to have to face another pregnancy at this stage. (Hypothetically. I'm not sure I could abort, but I'd be glad for the choices, I'm sure!)
It isn't just unmarried teens having to face this problem. I think a lot of us here forget that.
Oh, I understand that. But I'm not only referring to teenagers either. I don't think I actually gave any stipulations as to who I was referring to. But I see your point, and as I said, I respect every person's Right to choose, even if I disagree with said decision. It isn't just unmarried teens having to face this problem. I think a lot of us here forget that.
All the best,
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 2 2008, 02:20 AM)
Oh, I understand that. But I'm not only referring to teenagers either. I don't think I actually gave any stipulations as to who I was referring to. But I see your point, and as I said, I respect every person's Right to choose, even if I disagree with said decision.
All the best,
All the best,
Well, you said if you weren't willing to have a child, don't have sex. I would imagine that most adults in a committed relationship wouldn't live by this. I was pointing this out by partially using my own situation. I also would imagine that most in a committed relationship do use a reliable form of birth control to prevent this. Sometimes, it just doesn't work. I know this for a fact too. (remember? FOUR kids! hehe...)
Another thing that I bet not a lot have thought of. A woman can get pregnant quite late in her fertile years. This is not always a good time for anyone to raise a child. Health wise, and the fact that the family, if one already exists, may not be prepared in many ways, financially and realistically, for another child. It may be detrimental to an already established family.
Yes, there are many reasons why a woman (or even a couple) does not desire to continue with a pregnancy. Because I think many of us (including myself) sometimes view abortion as something some young, immature, irresponsible person has to deal with, I just wanted to remind people that it is people of all backgrounds, educations, age, etc, who possibly require one.
It really doesn't matter the reason at the end of the day. One reason is as good as another when one makes the difficult decision to put a definitive end to a possibility. It still hurts, it still feels wrong, but in some cases the hurt and the wrong outweigh the possible outcome that will affect the already existing people. Sounds selfish, but sometimes, it can be a question of survival.
If the whole human race is going to survive they are going to have to get a grip on strict population control, and this would include easy access to EARLY pregnancy termination.
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 1 2008, 03:35 PM)
There's always a risk. My motto - if you're not willing to have a child, don't have sex. As you say, contraception is not always 100% effective. There are always consequences, and just because we don't expect a consequence (pregnancy) does not mean that it will not happen, and imo one needs to be accountable for that possibility.
I understand that this is only my opinion. I do of course respect the Rights of a person to choose for themselves - even though I may disagree with their eventual decision, it is theirs to make, and theirs to live with.
All the best,
I understand that this is only my opinion. I do of course respect the Rights of a person to choose for themselves - even though I may disagree with their eventual decision, it is theirs to make, and theirs to live with.
All the best,
I think a lack of sex to adult humans is detrimental to mental health though, especially men and very much in teenage males.
QUOTE (Mattshark @ Jun 3 2008, 09:08 AM)
I think a lack of sex to adult humans is detrimental to mental health though, especially men and very much in teenage males.
Suffice it to say I disagree. I think society has made sex such an important object that it may be detrimental to some - if we are constantly bombarded with images of sexuality, then our natural reactions are going to be sexual (just look at most music videos - filled with scantily clad men and women gyrating in sensual motions - just one example off the top of my head). But this is a sociological perspective, not a biological one. I think abstinence is a perfectly acceptable viewpoint, and certainly I do not feel mentally unhealthy, neither now nor having gone through my teens quite some time ago.
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 3 2008, 01:44 PM)
Suffice it to say I disagree. I think society has made sex such an important object that it may be detrimental to some - if we are constantly bombarded with images of sexuality, then our natural reactions are going to be sexual (just look at most music videos - filled with scantily clad men and women gyrating in sensual motions - just one example off the top of my head).
But this is a sociological perspective, not a biological one. I think abstinence is a perfectly acceptable viewpoint, and certainly I do not feel mentally unhealthy, neither now nor having gone through my teens quite some time ago.
But this is a sociological perspective, not a biological one. I think abstinence is a perfectly acceptable viewpoint, and certainly I do not feel mentally unhealthy, neither now nor having gone through my teens quite some time ago.
Strangely when abstinence is taught over contraception teenage pregnancy is significantly higher.
Sex is not a social taught thing, it is one our strongest driving urges. It is fact that human males have a extremely strong biological urge to have sex and it can cause problems if you don't. Also lack of sex increases the probability of impotence.
Sex is extremely normal and healthy (it is a great form of exercise) and also a lot of fun and I am pretty sure if it was taught that way with high better encouragement for the use of contraception you would see a decrease in not only abortion but also teenage pregnancy (actually I know it would).
QUOTE (Mattshark @ Jun 3 2008, 10:55 PM)
Strangely when abstinence is taught over contraception teenage pregnancy is significantly higher.
Sex is not a social taught thing, it is one our strongest driving urges. It is fact that human males have a extremely strong biological urge to have sex and it can cause problems if you don't. Also lack of sex increases the probability of impotence.
Sex is extremely normal and healthy (it is a great form of exercise) and also a lot of fun and I am pretty sure if it was taught that way with high better encouragement for the use of contraception you would see a decrease in not only abortion but also teenage pregnancy (actually I know it would).
I'm not talking about teaching abstinence - by all means, teach safe sex, I am not against it. My comment was referring to the social reasons behind our views on sexuality. Images of sexuality are all around us (music videos being just an obvious example - tv commercials, sitcomes, comedians, whichever direction you look you are bombarded with images of sexuality). Sex is not a social taught thing, it is one our strongest driving urges. It is fact that human males have a extremely strong biological urge to have sex and it can cause problems if you don't. Also lack of sex increases the probability of impotence.
Sex is extremely normal and healthy (it is a great form of exercise) and also a lot of fun and I am pretty sure if it was taught that way with high better encouragement for the use of contraception you would see a decrease in not only abortion but also teenage pregnancy (actually I know it would).
As I said, I believe that if you are not ready to have a baby, then don't have sex - even with contraception, it can fail. I certainly wouldn't say taht not having sex is "unhealthy". You do mention some great benefits. But there are the not-so-great aspects to it also - primarily STD's, and condoms only protect against some of those.
But that's a different argument, methinks. We're talking about abortion, not sexual activity. All the best, Matt
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 3 2008, 07:03 AM)
I'm not talking about teaching abstinence - by all means, teach safe sex, I am not against it. My comment was referring to the social reasons behind our views on sexuality. Images of sexuality are all around us (music videos being just an obvious example - tv commercials, sitcomes, comedians, whichever direction you look you are bombarded with images of sexuality).
As I said, I believe that if you are not ready to have a baby, then don't have sex - even with contraception, it can fail. I certainly wouldn't say taht not having sex is "unhealthy". You do mention some great benefits. But there are the not-so-great aspects to it also - primarily STD's, and condoms only protect against some of those.
But that's a different argument, methinks. We're talking about abortion, not sexual activity. All the best, Matt
As I said, I believe that if you are not ready to have a baby, then don't have sex - even with contraception, it can fail. I certainly wouldn't say taht not having sex is "unhealthy". You do mention some great benefits. But there are the not-so-great aspects to it also - primarily STD's, and condoms only protect against some of those.
But that's a different argument, methinks. We're talking about abortion, not sexual activity. All the best, Matt
But you still haven't addressed this as it pertains to the non teenager. So, a married couple who have 5 kids already and are facing bankruptcy shouldn't be having sex, because they're not ready to have a baby? I'm looking for realistic scenarios. You keep saying "I believe that if you are not ready to have a baby, then don't have sex". But you are not addressing REALITY. Your comment generally likely pertains to teens or non married people (which generally would be the people NOT ready for a baby).
It is a known fact that too much sex can cause two things to happen to men ,first they begin to lose their memory and secondly er er er,I have forgotten the second thing
fullywired
fullywired
QUOTE (fullywired @ Jun 3 2008, 10:34 AM)
It is a known fact that too much sex can cause two things to happen to men ,first they begin to loose their memory and secondly er er er,I have forgotten the second thing
fullywired
fullywired
TMI...
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 4 2008, 03:15 AM)
But you still haven't addressed this as it pertains to the non teenager. So, a married couple who have 5 kids already and are facing bankruptcy shouldn't be having sex, because they're not ready to have a baby? I'm looking for realistic scenarios. You keep saying "I believe that if you are not ready to have a baby, then don't have sex". But you are not addressing REALITY. Your comment generally likely pertains to teens or non married people (which generally would be the people NOT ready for a baby).
I'll try to put this as simply as I can (though it is not a simple matter). I'm not saying that a married couple with five kids shouldn't be having sex. I'm saying that if they do have sex and get pregnant they should accept the consequences. That is my opinion on how they should take it. But by the same token, I have stated at least once on this thread (possibly more than once) that I also fully support their ability to choose, despite the fact I disagree with it. With the specific question of a family with 5 children, one possibility is a Vasectomy (or something like it). This operation makes child-bearing an impossibility. If you have five children taht you can barely take care of as is, then it could be a valid option (though not one to be taken to lightly - a lot of discussion and thought should be put into it with the partner and the physician).
My comments may seem to apply primarily to teenagers and the unmarried, and in many cases that is who I am referring to. But married couples should also consider the consequences of sex - if they have sex, in my opinion (which they are perfectly free to ignore) they should accept whatever consequences come from it.
Hope that clarifies my meaning for you
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 4 2008, 12:54 AM)
I'll try to put this as simply as I can (though it is not a simple matter). I'm not saying that a married couple with five kids shouldn't be having sex. I'm saying that if they do have sex and get pregnant they should accept the consequences. That is my opinion on how they should take it. But by the same token, I have stated at least once on this thread (possibly more than once) that I also fully support their ability to choose, despite the fact I disagree with it.
With the specific question of a family with 5 children, one possibility is a Vasectomy (or something like it). This operation makes child-bearing an impossibility. If you have five children taht you can barely take care of as is, then it could be a valid option (though not one to be taken to lightly - a lot of discussion and thought should be put into it with the partner and the physician).
My comments may seem to apply primarily to teenagers and the unmarried, and in many cases that is who I am referring to. But married couples should also consider the consequences of sex - if they have sex, in my opinion (which they are perfectly free to ignore) they should accept whatever consequences come from it.
Hope that clarifies my meaning for you
With the specific question of a family with 5 children, one possibility is a Vasectomy (or something like it). This operation makes child-bearing an impossibility. If you have five children taht you can barely take care of as is, then it could be a valid option (though not one to be taken to lightly - a lot of discussion and thought should be put into it with the partner and the physician).
My comments may seem to apply primarily to teenagers and the unmarried, and in many cases that is who I am referring to. But married couples should also consider the consequences of sex - if they have sex, in my opinion (which they are perfectly free to ignore) they should accept whatever consequences come from it.
Hope that clarifies my meaning for you
Thanks PA. Although I do hope you were not condescending to me with the "simply as possible" comment. If you read my response to you, I addressed that. I said: So, a married couple who have 5 kids already and are facing bankruptcy shouldn't be having sex, because they're not ready to have a baby? Not ready! Which means that other kinds of birth control may not be wanted. I see that you were saying that they should then accept the possibility of a baby. That is unrealistic. I was also pointing out that there are so many possible scenarios that your statements cannot possibly cover. My biggest point would be that what you were proposing is unrealistic. Its a nice idea in general, but unrealistic.
By stating your opinion, you are stating that this is how you think people should deal with this. If you have an opinion, you would probably do well to have a realistic one.
Thank you for clarifying though.
If people DID plan ahead with 100% accuracy, and without pitfalls, there wouldn't BE bankruptcy or unplanned pregnancies, or other upheavals in our lives. We are designed for survival first in some ways and this is man's way of dealing with what can be perceived as a pitfall.
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 5 2008, 03:06 AM)
Thanks PA. Although I do hope you were not condescending to me with the "simply as possible" comment.
No, I wasn't being condescending (apologies if it came out that way). I was just commenting that it is a big topic with answers that are not easy or short to write. QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 5 2008, 03:06 AM)
If you read my response to you, I addressed that. I said: So, a married couple who have 5 kids already and are facing bankruptcy shouldn't be having sex, because they're not ready to have a baby? Not ready! Which means that other kinds of birth control may not be wanted. I see that you were saying that they should then accept the possibility of a baby. That is unrealistic. I was also pointing out that there are so many possible scenarios that your statements cannot possibly cover. My biggest point would be that what you were proposing is unrealistic. Its a nice idea in general, but unrealistic.
By stating your opinion, you are stating that this is how you think people should deal with this. If you have an opinion, you would probably do well to have a realistic one.
Thank you for clarifying though.
If people DID plan ahead with 100% accuracy, and without pitfalls, there wouldn't BE bankruptcy or unplanned pregnancies, or other upheavals in our lives. We are designed for survival first in some ways and this is man's way of dealing with what can be perceived as a pitfall.
I'm against abortion, simple as that. Realistic or not, if people get pregnant, it is my opinion they should carry the child to term. They should not kill the kid just because it's "inconvenient". Yes, it is my opinion, and it is how I think people should deal with it.By stating your opinion, you are stating that this is how you think people should deal with this. If you have an opinion, you would probably do well to have a realistic one.
Thank you for clarifying though.
If people DID plan ahead with 100% accuracy, and without pitfalls, there wouldn't BE bankruptcy or unplanned pregnancies, or other upheavals in our lives. We are designed for survival first in some ways and this is man's way of dealing with what can be perceived as a pitfall.
BUT by the same token, I fully respect every person's rights to choose as they see fit. If they want to get an abortion, I won't agree with them, but I won't stop them either.
I don't think it's unrealistic to hold this opinion. It makes a lot of sense to me.
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 5 2008, 12:27 AM)
No, I wasn't being condescending (apologies if it came out that way). I was just commenting that it is a big topic with answers that are not easy or short to write.
I'm against abortion, simple as that. Realistic or not, if people get pregnant, it is my opinion they should carry the child to term. They should not kill the kid just because it's "inconvenient". Yes, it is my opinion, and it is how I think people should deal with it.
BUT by the same token, I fully respect every person's rights to choose as they see fit. If they want to get an abortion, I won't agree with them, but I won't stop them either.
I don't think it's unrealistic to hold this opinion. It makes a lot of sense to me.
I'm against abortion, simple as that. Realistic or not, if people get pregnant, it is my opinion they should carry the child to term. They should not kill the kid just because it's "inconvenient". Yes, it is my opinion, and it is how I think people should deal with it.
BUT by the same token, I fully respect every person's rights to choose as they see fit. If they want to get an abortion, I won't agree with them, but I won't stop them either.
I don't think it's unrealistic to hold this opinion. It makes a lot of sense to me.
The weird thing is, and its not just you... you talk about not "killing the kid" yet, you "won't stop them either". Well, if someone were killing a child aged say 1 or so, would you stop them? How come this is different? Obviously you think its not as bad as killing a live child. How come?
PS Thank you for clarifying. I honestly wasn't sure if you were being condescending. Glad you weren't.
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 5 2008, 05:34 PM)
The weird thing is, and its not just you... you talk about not "killing the kid" yet, you "won't stop them either". Well, if someone were killing a child aged say 1 or so, would you stop them? How come this is different? Obviously you think its not as bad as killing a live child. How come?
I guess I would return this question with another question of my own - what do you suggest would be a good way to go about doing it? Kill the mother? That would kill the baby as well. Kidnap the mother until she carries it to term? Apart from going to jail, the mother's mental health would be at risk. Kill the doctor? That is also a jailable offense. If someone expressed to me their desire to have an abortion, I would state my opinion, possibly more than once. I would tell them that I believe they are making a mistake by doing so and equate it to taking a real life. But more than that, there is little I can humanly accomplish, wouldn't you say?
A person attempting to kill a 1-year old child, on the other hand, is an easy one. Remove the child from the dangerous situation. Not quite so easy to remove a baby in teh womb from the same fate.
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 5 2008, 05:34 PM)
PS Thank you for clarifying. I honestly wasn't sure if you were being condescending. Glad you weren't.
No worries
It is as simple as this: let women choose and do not let any man make any sort of choice that deals with this.
I am sorry but religion CANNOT play any aspect whatsoever on a subject as important as this. Religion would not be as it is without life and unfortunately yes there is a great need to control the amount of children being born. We CANNOT live in an overpopulated world and that is the simple fact. Stop calling it disgusting, stop being so narrow minded. Again...WE CANNOT LIVE IN AN OVERPOPULATED WORLD.
99.9% of the time an abortion does no occur to control the population...it occurs because of the woman's choice for it to occur at all. Sometimes it is beyond her choice and left in the hands of someone else that she trusts to make that choice...
An abortion is eliminating a potential human that may have or may not have contributed to society in some great way...hell maybe they would cure cancer. But guess what? Humans are a cancer and we're spreading across the world so much that sooner of later there will be a shortage of certain luxuries. What happens then? Economies have to be restructured and lives have to change.
But again...
Leave Abortion as a choice for women and not men. We contribute sperm with one night of sexual intercourse. The woman contributes with nine months of her life and most of the time it goes beyond even that.
DO NOT say that the child can be put up for adoption because there are so many children in that program that 40% of them turn 18 without any family adopting them.
Growing up in those facilities is not pleasant and you can expect 80% of those kids to not do anything with their lives.
Pro-Lifers need to grow up and stop living in a fairy tale world with frogs that poo diamonds and elephants that fart rainbows....
I am sorry but religion CANNOT play any aspect whatsoever on a subject as important as this. Religion would not be as it is without life and unfortunately yes there is a great need to control the amount of children being born. We CANNOT live in an overpopulated world and that is the simple fact. Stop calling it disgusting, stop being so narrow minded. Again...WE CANNOT LIVE IN AN OVERPOPULATED WORLD.
99.9% of the time an abortion does no occur to control the population...it occurs because of the woman's choice for it to occur at all. Sometimes it is beyond her choice and left in the hands of someone else that she trusts to make that choice...
An abortion is eliminating a potential human that may have or may not have contributed to society in some great way...hell maybe they would cure cancer. But guess what? Humans are a cancer and we're spreading across the world so much that sooner of later there will be a shortage of certain luxuries. What happens then? Economies have to be restructured and lives have to change.
But again...
Leave Abortion as a choice for women and not men. We contribute sperm with one night of sexual intercourse. The woman contributes with nine months of her life and most of the time it goes beyond even that.
DO NOT say that the child can be put up for adoption because there are so many children in that program that 40% of them turn 18 without any family adopting them.
Growing up in those facilities is not pleasant and you can expect 80% of those kids to not do anything with their lives.
Pro-Lifers need to grow up and stop living in a fairy tale world with frogs that poo diamonds and elephants that fart rainbows....
QUOTE (Sadonis @ Jun 5 2008, 08:55 PM)
An abortion is eliminating a potential human that may have or may not have contributed to society in some great way...hell maybe they would cure cancer. But guess what? Humans are a cancer and we're spreading across the world so much that sooner of later there will be a shortage of certain luxuries. What happens then? Economies have to be restructured and lives have to change.
Pro-Lifers need to grow up and stop living in a fairy tale world with frogs that poo diamonds and elephants that fart rainbows....
Pro-Lifers need to grow up and stop living in a fairy tale world with frogs that poo diamonds and elephants that fart rainbows....
Luxuries ? I'm worried about the basics, food, clean water, medical care & keeping warm.
Yes, we do have to re-structure our lives, but we don't have to sacrifice everything if we are very innovative & practical. We have the potential..........in some of the minds of our fellow humans
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 5 2008, 12:45 AM)
I guess I would return this question with another question of my own - what do you suggest would be a good way to go about doing it? Kill the mother? That would kill the baby as well. Kidnap the mother until she carries it to term? Apart from going to jail, the mother's mental health would be at risk. Kill the doctor? That is also a jailable offense.
So you're saying that the baby or fetus is the most reasonable subject?
QUOTE
If someone expressed to me their desire to have an abortion, I would state my opinion, possibly more than once. I would tell them that I believe they are making a mistake by doing so and equate it to taking a real life. But more than that, there is little I can humanly accomplish, wouldn't you say?
See, from my point of view, it would be none of your business or anyone elses. So I really can't answer that.
QUOTE
A person attempting to kill a 1-year old child, on the other hand, is an easy one. Remove the child from the dangerous situation. Not quite so easy to remove a baby in teh womb from the same fate.
No worries
No worries
You're assuming its easy to remove a 1 year old child from the situation.
My point to bringing it up was my way of responding to your interesting view... If you REALLY viewed it as killing a child, you would probably ACT as you would in the real event of someone physically killing a child. Obviously it isn't the same, and so you are acting thus. (and again, its not just you)
Just more of an observation, really.
QUOTE (fullywired @ Jun 4 2008, 03:04 AM)
It is a known fact that too much sex can cause two things to happen to men ,first they begin to lose their memory and secondly er er er,I have forgotten the second thing
fullywired
fullywired
ihve mo trbl temenbeong whay the pther ting was, i jst cnt sea wekk enougj tp wrire it cottecly
QUOTE (Mr Walker @ Jun 6 2008, 11:50 AM)
ihve mo trbl temenbeong whay the pther ting was, i jst cnt sea wekk enougj tp wrire it cottecly
G'day Mr W -- so what's up with your smell chucker? 
Hoo roo,
Karlis
QUOTE (Sadonis @ Jun 6 2008, 04:55 AM)
It is as simple as this: let women choose and do not let any man make any sort of choice that deals with this.
Leave Abortion as a choice for women and not men. We contribute sperm with one night of sexual intercourse. The woman contributes with nine months of her life and most of the time it goes beyond even that.
I can only agree with this to a point. What if the woman wants the baby, but the man does not - he is still expected to pay child support for that - so yes, it does affect the men as well...... just something to ponder.....Leave Abortion as a choice for women and not men. We contribute sperm with one night of sexual intercourse. The woman contributes with nine months of her life and most of the time it goes beyond even that.
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 6 2008, 08:21 AM)
So you're saying that the baby or fetus is the most reasonable subject?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify what you mean by "most reasonable subject"? I'm just saying that I can't see a viable way to stop an abortion short of killing the mother or doctor (or kidnapping, which might lead to stress and miscarriage anyway) - all of which would be wrong.QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 6 2008, 08:21 AM)
You're assuming its easy to remove a 1 year old child from the situation.
That's not the question you asked! You asked: Well, if someone were killing a child aged say 1 or so, would you stop them? My answer would be "yes". And I'm not saying removing a 1-year old from a dangerous situation is "easy"..... though I did use that word - apologies for any misunderstanding. my point was that the course of action laid before me if this were to happen is a simple one - stop the person from killing the baby. It might not be as easy to carry out in practice as it is in words, but the action is an easy one to make. Ultimately, it's certainly more attainable than removing a foetus from the same situation. QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 6 2008, 08:21 AM)
My point to bringing it up was my way of responding to your interesting view... If you REALLY viewed it as killing a child, you would probably ACT as you would in the real event of someone physically killing a child. Obviously it isn't the same, and so you are acting thus. (and again, its not just you)
Just more of an observation, really.
Just to clarify - how exactly might I accomplish this with a pregnant mother? Suggest a realistic way to stop a mother from having an abortion, please - I can't think of anything.Just more of an observation, really.
QUOTE (Paranoid Android @ Jun 6 2008, 08:19 AM)
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you clarify what you mean by "most reasonable subject"? I'm just saying that I can't see a viable way to stop an abortion short of killing the mother or doctor (or kidnapping, which might lead to stress and miscarriage anyway) - all of which would be wrong.
That's not the question you asked! You asked: Well, if someone were killing a child aged say 1 or so, would you stop them? My answer would be "yes". And I'm not saying removing a 1-year old from a dangerous situation is "easy"..... though I did use that word - apologies for any misunderstanding. my point was that the course of action laid before me if this were to happen is a simple one - stop the person from killing the baby. It might not be as easy to carry out in practice as it is in words, but the action is an easy one to make. Ultimately, it's certainly more attainable than removing a foetus from the same situation.
Just to clarify - how exactly might I accomplish this with a pregnant mother? Suggest a realistic way to stop a mother from having an abortion, please - I can't think of anything.
That's not the question you asked! You asked: Well, if someone were killing a child aged say 1 or so, would you stop them? My answer would be "yes". And I'm not saying removing a 1-year old from a dangerous situation is "easy"..... though I did use that word - apologies for any misunderstanding. my point was that the course of action laid before me if this were to happen is a simple one - stop the person from killing the baby. It might not be as easy to carry out in practice as it is in words, but the action is an easy one to make. Ultimately, it's certainly more attainable than removing a foetus from the same situation.
Just to clarify - how exactly might I accomplish this with a pregnant mother? Suggest a realistic way to stop a mother from having an abortion, please - I can't think of anything.
Ok, when I said, "If you REALLY viewed it as killing a child, you would probably ACT as you would in the real event of someone physically killing a child. Obviously it isn't the same, and so you are acting thus. (and again, its not just you)" I was basically referring to the seemingly shrug of the shoulders ( vs how one would act when faced with someone killing a child. "I fully respect every person's rights to choose as they see fit. If they want to get an abortion, I won't agree with them, but I won't stop them either."
So lets stop saying its murder, is my whole point to this banter between you and I. If you REALLY felt it were murder or killing, lets face it, you would be doing more to stop it.
That's the difference between someone with your view point, and a staunch Pro Lifer. The Pro Lifer is more apt to make a drastic attempt to stop the "murders". Your opinions on the matter clearly show that you realize there is a difference between terminating a pregnancy and killing an unborn child.
Forgot to address your request for clarification re: my question, "So you're saying that the baby or fetus is the most reasonable subject?"
You said,"I guess I would return this question with another question of my own - what do you suggest would be a good way to go about doing it? Kill the mother? That would kill the baby as well. Kidnap the mother until she carries it to term? Apart from going to jail, the mother's mental health would be at risk. Kill the doctor? That is also a jailable offense."
So you ruled out killing the mother and the doctor for above reasons.... that leaves... the baby or fetus, according to the way you put it.
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 7 2008, 01:47 AM)
Ok, when I said, "If you REALLY viewed it as killing a child, you would probably ACT as you would in the real event of someone physically killing a child.
In the real event of someone physically killing a child, I would try to take the baby out of harms way - naturally I cannot do that with a foetus. Or are you talking about the feelings I would have about the event if I heard about a baby getting killed/murdered as opposed to the foetus getting abortedQUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 7 2008, 01:47 AM)
Obviously it isn't the same, and so you are acting thus. (and again, its not just you)" I was basically referring to the seemingly shrug of the shoulders ( vs how one would act when faced with someone killing a child. "I fully respect every person's rights to choose as they see fit. If they want to get an abortion, I won't agree with them, but I won't stop them either."
So lets stop saying its murder, is my whole point to this banter between you and I. If you REALLY felt it were murder or killing, lets face it, you would be doing more to stop it.
Which brings me to my question - how would I stop it, what more would/could/should I do? As I have said, i cannot think of anything. So lets stop saying its murder, is my whole point to this banter between you and I. If you REALLY felt it were murder or killing, lets face it, you would be doing more to stop it.
QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 7 2008, 01:47 AM)
That's the difference between someone with your view point, and a staunch Pro Lifer. The Pro Lifer is more apt to make a drastic attempt to stop the "murders". Your opinions on the matter clearly show that you realize there is a difference between terminating a pregnancy and killing an unborn child.
I'm not a "staunch pro lifer". I'm just realistic enough to know that if we make abortion illegal it would just lead to backyard clinics which would put the mother at risk as well as the child. Whatever the answer, it's not a pleasant one. Perhaps I would not exhibit the same outrage at an abortion as I would to a baby's murder, and that is partially because of our human views on the matter. At this point though, I am reminded of a quote that I heard fairly recently that's stuck in my mind - "In Australia, Capital Punishment has been abolished. Yet 100,000 Australians are put to death each year! Their only crime - being inconvenient". I know this hinges on the view that a foetus is a life, but it still has stuck with me. You may disagree, but that is how I view it, and hence why, if spoken to by a person thinking about abortion, I would express my views. You said in your last post that you don't see it as anybody's business but their own. Which is fair enough. But I do not have that view, which is why I would voice my opinion. QUOTE (LadyHay @ Jun 7 2008, 01:47 AM)
Forgot to address your request for clarification re: my question, "So you're saying that the baby or fetus is the most reasonable subject?"
You said,"I guess I would return this question with another question of my own - what do you suggest would be a good way to go about doing it? Kill the mother? That would kill the baby as well. Kidnap the mother until she carries it to term? Apart from going to jail, the mother's mental health would be at risk. Kill the doctor? That is also a jailable offense."
So you ruled out killing the mother and the doctor for above reasons.... that leaves... the baby or fetus, according to the way you put it.
I ruled out killing in general because my saviour has taught me that harming others is not the way to go (and I'm a pacifist). My "ruling out" was hypothetical. If I kill the mother, I kill the baby. If I kill the doctor, another one would take its place. If I kidnap the mother, the stress might kill the baby anyway. Whatever choice though, all lead to prison. That doesn't leave me with a great deal of options, does it. I can either spew hatred towards the person getting the abortion, or I could show them love. I choose the latter.
You said,"I guess I would return this question with another question of my own - what do you suggest would be a good way to go about doing it? Kill the mother? That would kill the baby as well. Kidnap the mother until she carries it to term? Apart from going to jail, the mother's mental health would be at risk. Kill the doctor? That is also a jailable offense."
So you ruled out killing the mother and the doctor for above reasons.... that leaves... the baby or fetus, according to the way you put it.
QUOTE (Karlis @ Jun 6 2008, 08:07 PM)
G'day Mr W -- so what's up with your smell chucker?
Hoo roo,
Karlis
Hoo roo,
Karlis
Nothing wrong with my spell checker. Just that, for a while there, it seemed like i was going blind.
I am personally against abortion, however, I think we all have to account for ourselves. I think if a woman wants an abortion let her have it----but----she pays for it--no federal or state funds (taxpayers money) or let the one that had the fun pay for it. I think if the woman is under 18 her parents should approve. If the insurance companies want to get in the gencide business thats up to them. I will recant:
1) no taxpayers money to fund it
2) let daddy pay for it, if momie can't
3) if she is under 18 mom and dad have to take responsiblity for their kid, a 16 year old is not responsible enough to make that decision, after all they have already done something stupid
best regards,
seax
1) no taxpayers money to fund it
2) let daddy pay for it, if momie can't
3) if she is under 18 mom and dad have to take responsiblity for their kid, a 16 year old is not responsible enough to make that decision, after all they have already done something stupid
best regards,
seax
QUOTE (Omnaka @ May 23 2008, 03:05 AM)
I don't think those who fight to preserve life can ever Loose this Fight,They Fight for Goodness and creation, something Positive. depending on how they fight it, ( Killing to stop Killing , Only creates More o0f the same)
And if those who are Pro killing and Destruction of Life , Well It is not creation, or positive is it.
L'chaim
Love Omnaka
And if those who are Pro killing and Destruction of Life , Well It is not creation, or positive is it.
L'chaim
Love Omnaka
I thought I would bring this back, since it is a hetro thing, Goes with the Homo thing on another thread. Which sin is worse IYO. If you think either a sin.
Love Omnaka
QUOTE (midtown5dw @ May 13 2008, 04:17 PM)
So in todays world, We have Christians bombing abortion clinics and right wingers say thing that the constitution needs to ban abortion, when being conservative means not letting the gov into your personal affairs. a little hypocritical?
My issue with this is, there should be a seperation of church and state right? So how could you base a amendment on something supported solely by religion? Also, who is to say if a fetus is aborted, that the soul that would have gone into that vessel wouldnt just go into another body?
Well thats my view on it...... Feel free to rip me to shreds now.
My issue with this is, there should be a seperation of church and state right? So how could you base a amendment on something supported solely by religion? Also, who is to say if a fetus is aborted, that the soul that would have gone into that vessel wouldnt just go into another body?
Well thats my view on it...... Feel free to rip me to shreds now.
Mine is pretty simple..
If you dont like abortion and/or you believe it to be a sin
Then don't have one.
Leave other people alone.
QUOTE (Heartless @ Aug 27 2008, 02:06 AM)
Mine is pretty simple..
If you dont like abortion and/or you believe it to be a sin
Then don't have one.
Leave other people alone.
If you dont like abortion and/or you believe it to be a sin
Then don't have one.
Leave other people alone.
Hey sis , I knew you would respond. I am of the same thought on Both issues, Probably should not have brought this one back, but it would have returned by itsel in time.
It's all in one's belief, If he, or she thinks it a sin (Usually a heart felt Knowledge), Then it is a sin to that person, everything being relative.
I know something about the hurting Baby spirits who go through This so Iam against it, Heart felt, But I know others who do not Know what Iam talking about, Who have not seen what I have, Know not, so Ignorance is bliss, if it truly does not weigh the heart of those who agree to this Action.
Iam a protector Of the innocent, Sadly I can only love and Minister to them in The spirit realm. Or Live My life as I know here on Earth.
Love Omnaka
QUOTE (Omnaka @ Aug 26 2008, 09:23 PM)
Hey sis , I knew you would respond. I am of the same thought on Both issues, Probably should not have brought this one back, but it would have returned by itsel in time.
It's all in one's belief, If he, or she thinks it a sin (Usually a heart felt Knowledge), Then it is a sin to that person, everything being relative.
I know something about the hurting Baby spirits who go through This so Iam against it, Heart felt, But I know others who do not Know what Iam talking about, Who have not seen what I have, Know not, so Ignorance is bliss, if it truly does not weigh the heart of those who agree to this Action.
Iam a protector Of the innocent, Sadly I can only love and Minister to them in The spirit realm. Or Live My life as I know here on Earth.
Love Omnaka
It's all in one's belief, If he, or she thinks it a sin (Usually a heart felt Knowledge), Then it is a sin to that person, everything being relative.
I know something about the hurting Baby spirits who go through This so Iam against it, Heart felt, But I know others who do not Know what Iam talking about, Who have not seen what I have, Know not, so Ignorance is bliss, if it truly does not weigh the heart of those who agree to this Action.
Iam a protector Of the innocent, Sadly I can only love and Minister to them in The spirit realm. Or Live My life as I know here on Earth.
Love Omnaka
Probably it would have returned here or in a seperate thread.
I was about to post to you a synopsis about what I think a "good life" is. How I think people should live...
...but then I realized that I am just me and it does not matter what I think.
I believe people make things far more complicated and controversial than they truly are...
...and that is what makes me shake my head in shame for all of us.
QUOTE (Heartless @ Aug 27 2008, 02:27 AM)
Probably it would have returned here or in a seperate thread.
I was about to post to you a synopsis about what I think a "good life" is. How I think people should live...
...but then I realized that I am just me and it does not matter what I think.
I believe people make things far more complicated and controversial than they truly are...
...and that is what makes me shake my head in shame for all of us.
I was about to post to you a synopsis about what I think a "good life" is. How I think people should live...
...but then I realized that I am just me and it does not matter what I think.
I believe people make things far more complicated and controversial than they truly are...
...and that is what makes me shake my head in shame for all of us.
Imo, we are all on diferent paths to the same thing, so judging another's path is not what mine is about, but being in the physical realm, I have to have a basis for Learning, and or comparison. If I give up all opinions On What I know, I might as well leave.
What I have said in this thread, is gained from the knowledge of traveling to the Spirit world, I know I can't expect any to believe me, Thats why I always say it is understandable If you don't, But I still have to tell what I know, Especially in this case.
I would love to hear what You think a good life is, Should start a thread called "The Good Life".
To Haparish,
I did not change Fathers mind on anything, But did offer a solution to this problem which Father implemented, All the Aborted Baby spirits have been adopted, By the heavenly Host (Family).
This does not make the action Ok IMO,
It does Love And aleviate the sufferage Of spirits who never finished Thei'r incarnation Though. And offers a way for the repentant Mother's aND fATHERS TO ADOPT A SPIRIT WHEN THEY RETURN hOME.
The sad thing about me saying this is, Those who know This and do it now, will not have this option, Their own spirit will be too shame. Ignorance is Bliss, But Knowledge is to be acountable.
But then again, The body can justify just about anaything.
Love Omnaka
QUOTE (Cradle of Fish @ May 13 2008, 04:39 PM)
People who are fiercely pro life, ie to the point of violence and continuous picketing do not think at all about the future. The planet is overpopulated as it is, we don't need any more unplanned babies clogging up our natural resources. It's a womans body, she has control of it, including her bodily functions which is all pregnancy is.
We need to start loving the people that we already have, and make the world a better place before we should even consider having children.
We need to start loving the people that we already have, and make the world a better place before we should even consider having children.
First, of course the world is overpopulating, I get that. But that doesn't condone killing a child. I'm sure no one wants to tears a baby apart and throw it into a pool of acid....although that is what abortion is.
So please explain why you are pro death?
Second, women need to control their urges just as men should do too. Those women who are raped only make up about less than 2% of all unplanned pregnancies.
Third, the future is already planned out in Revelation. Whether you believe in it or not doesn't matter because it is coming anyway. Live in the present and you won't worry about the future or dwell on the past. Work on the world to make it a better place? YES. Lose our morals and values to secure our place on this planet? NO.
Too many people are losing themselves in, well, themselves. We should look out for all of humankind, especially babies.
_____________________________________
As for the political crisis between state and religion....wouldn't it be better to have a moralistic society than one that resembles Hitler's regime? Babies are the new Jews these days it seems. It is sickening.
Oh yeah, I am Christian, but I vote Liberal.
J
With abortion I have mixed feelings, I generally dislike it
I think that abortion should not be used like birth control-too many idiots do this
Having an abortion past the first trimester is just plain sick & wrong-the quicker the better if one is determined
I believe in the morning after pill
I think that abortion should not be used like birth control-too many idiots do this
Having an abortion past the first trimester is just plain sick & wrong-the quicker the better if one is determined
I believe in the morning after pill
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Aug 26 2008, 11:39 PM)
With abortion I have mixed feelings, I generally dislike it
I think that abortion should not be used like birth control-too many idiots do this
Having an abortion past the first trimester is just plain sick & wrong-the quicker the better if one is determined
I believe in the morning after pill
I think that abortion should not be used like birth control-too many idiots do this
Having an abortion past the first trimester is just plain sick & wrong-the quicker the better if one is determined
I believe in the morning after pill
The morning after pill I have no problem with, but other than that, abortions should be outlawed.
QUOTE (TheDreamer @ Aug 27 2008, 03:26 AM)
First, of course the world is overpopulating, I get that. But that doesn't condone killing a child. I'm sure no one wants to tears a baby apart and throw it into a pool of acid....although that is what abortion is.
So please explain why you are pro death?
Second, women need to control their urges just as men should do too. Those women who are raped only make up about less than 2% of all unplanned pregnancies.
Third, the future is already planned out in Revelation. Whether you believe in it or not doesn't matter because it is coming anyway. Live in the present and you won't worry about the future or dwell on the past. Work on the world to make it a better place? YES. Lose our morals and values to secure our place on this planet? NO.
Too many people are losing themselves in, well, themselves. We should look out for all of humankind, especially babies.
_____________________________________
As for the political crisis between state and religion....wouldn't it be better to have a moralistic society than one that resembles Hitler's regime? Babies are the new Jews these days it seems. It is sickening.
Oh yeah, I am Christian, but I vote Liberal.
J
So please explain why you are pro death?
Second, women need to control their urges just as men should do too. Those women who are raped only make up about less than 2% of all unplanned pregnancies.
Third, the future is already planned out in Revelation. Whether you believe in it or not doesn't matter because it is coming anyway. Live in the present and you won't worry about the future or dwell on the past. Work on the world to make it a better place? YES. Lose our morals and values to secure our place on this planet? NO.
Too many people are losing themselves in, well, themselves. We should look out for all of humankind, especially babies.
_____________________________________
As for the political crisis between state and religion....wouldn't it be better to have a moralistic society than one that resembles Hitler's regime? Babies are the new Jews these days it seems. It is sickening.
Oh yeah, I am Christian, but I vote Liberal.
J
God bless you Dreamer!
Love Omnaka
QUOTE (momentarylapseofreason @ Aug 27 2008, 04:39 AM)
With abortion I have mixed feelings, I generally dislike it
I think that abortion should not be used like birth control-too many idiots do this
Having an abortion past the first trimester is just plain sick & wrong-the quicker the better if one is determined
I believe in the morning after pill
I think that abortion should not be used like birth control-too many idiots do this
Having an abortion past the first trimester is just plain sick & wrong-the quicker the better if one is determined
I believe in the morning after pill
My oppinion word for word.
My view on abortion is as follows.
Abortion is not for me. I'd like to think that I wouldn't have an abortion under any circumstances, but I wouldn't know for sure unless I'd been in these circumstances.
I used to have a different view and think I could have an abortion easily, but that was when I was younger and had no desire to have kids. Now I'm a bit older, and with it being an expensive business to get pregnant when you're a lesbian, I can't see myself ever being able to do have an abortion even if it was conceived through rape.
If it was disabled or had downsyndrome or something, I believe this is meant to be, a challenge for both my soul, that I chose to take on before I arrived in this body, and the same for the child.
As for other people, I really couldn't give a crap TBH. Makes no difference to me atall.
Abortion is not for me. I'd like to think that I wouldn't have an abortion under any circumstances, but I wouldn't know for sure unless I'd been in these circumstances.
I used to have a different view and think I could have an abortion easily, but that was when I was younger and had no desire to have kids. Now I'm a bit older, and with it being an expensive business to get pregnant when you're a lesbian, I can't see myself ever being able to do have an abortion even if it was conceived through rape.
If it was disabled or had downsyndrome or something, I believe this is meant to be, a challenge for both my soul, that I chose to take on before I arrived in this body, and the same for the child.
As for other people, I really couldn't give a crap TBH. Makes no difference to me atall.
Faraway,
That was wonderfull sister. I hope you get a child to care for and Love.
Love Omnaka
That was wonderfull sister. I hope you get a child to care for and Love.
Love Omnaka
Men need to start taking more responsibility for their reproductive inclinations.
Why is just the woman responsible for birth-control ?
I'm tired of hearing whiny men about having children "they never asked for" & paying child support .
Shoulda, coulda used a condom buddy. Take responsibility as you should. It's not the child's fault ,to be sure.
Besides it's wise these days.
Why is just the woman responsible for birth-control ?
I'm tired of hearing whiny men about having children "they never asked for" & paying child support .
Shoulda, coulda used a condom buddy. Take responsibility as you should. It's not the child's fault ,to be sure.
Besides it's wise these days.
QUOTE (midtown5dw @ May 13 2008, 10:17 PM)
So in todays world, We have Christians bombing abortion clinics and right wingers say thing that the constitution needs to ban abortion, when being conservative means not letting the gov into your personal affairs. a little hypocritical?
My issue with this is, there should be a seperation of church and state right? So how could you base a amendment on something supported solely by religion? Also, who is to say if a fetus is aborted, that the soul that would have gone into that vessel wouldnt just go into another body?
Well thats my view on it...... Feel free to rip me to shreds now.
My issue with this is, there should be a seperation of church and state right? So how could you base a amendment on something supported solely by religion? Also, who is to say if a fetus is aborted, that the soul that would have gone into that vessel wouldnt just go into another body?
Well thats my view on it...... Feel free to rip me to shreds now.
you have me confused with this one because this topic has two sides to it if not more
1) religious connotations
2) social and economical parameters
3) womans side
5) education on how to prevent an unwanted pregnancy
which one you want us to have a say about?
QUOTE (Pavot @ May 14 2008, 01:11 AM)
Hearts
Ok I do understand that this is a debate thread but I will not come back after posting this and debate it what I wrote here, I do not want to live the pain of heart I am now in having to write this to show your hearts and make my points clearly heard, respect to all Pavot…
My Thoughts upon Murdering of hearts, please do hear me out, this not what you may be thinking, I have killed hearts in my lifetime, the first time I was only Eighteen, in High school, in Love, living in my own apartment, a full time job and going to School as well, I was a man, but my Parents as they decided to forcibly make use and they did make us have an abortion, it killed a lot of hearts a baby (Fetus-Life) it killed our hearts then, and still does to this day, thirty plus years after the apportion and will until we die, we take such things such heart choices to our graves and live in these heart choices daily and nightly awake and in our dreams, only if you are willing to sever and I mean to numb and change your hearts forever should you make what I believe strongly for any reason not the right choice as in to take a life.
The next time that I killed, my heart and hers and her families, was a few years after, my wee young family desperately needed the food and I went out and took a life, I took carefully skilled aim and the bullet ripped through her sending her many feet into the air as her back bone broke in two, her sisters stood there in great horror and shock and turned and fan off and I let them, numb myself and very sick within my heart, this Man’s heart, I destroyed her precious life and her children’s and her families, I hear her cry out in great pain and agony to this day it is haunting I watched the life leave from within her eyes her spirit went…
If you think that you are a tough hearted person, if you think you can face that mirror and look into those eyes I am betting I know you will kill more than the heart of that wee baby, I struggle in my writing and my many struggles emotionally and physically show in my daily writing in the moods of, but let me tell you this, what that wee baby is going to show you of your own heart, is your own call my friends, that wee life and life it is will show you your heart every day for the rest of your life, and I do, God my dear friends I do want that baby to shows you the Love of your hearts and not the horrible tormenting pain within, it is love now but if you change it to pain it will be your own call and you will live it daily for the rest of your lives, I am a huge strong Man a tuff son of a B. I have chased down bears in wilder youth and fought many battles but I have never even expected that I would I would crumble and hate my own self for taking those two lives the life of my own wee baby (Fetus-Life-hearted one) never showing my hearts love and life and a does life killing her and her families hearts.…
I suggest you print off these words I wrote and every time or that one time you have to make that dissection you read the wise world of this old Indian Grandfather…
Pavot
Ok I do understand that this is a debate thread but I will not come back after posting this and debate it what I wrote here, I do not want to live the pain of heart I am now in having to write this to show your hearts and make my points clearly heard, respect to all Pavot…
My Thoughts upon Murdering of hearts, please do hear me out, this not what you may be thinking, I have killed hearts in my lifetime, the first time I was only Eighteen, in High school, in Love, living in my own apartment, a full time job and going to School as well, I was a man, but my Parents as they decided to forcibly make use and they did make us have an abortion, it killed a lot of hearts a baby (Fetus-Life) it killed our hearts then, and still does to this day, thirty plus years after the apportion and will until we die, we take such things such heart choices to our graves and live in these heart choices daily and nightly awake and in our dreams, only if you are willing to sever and I mean to numb and change your hearts forever should you make what I believe strongly for any reason not the right choice as in to take a life.
The next time that I killed, my heart and hers and her families, was a few years after, my wee young family desperately needed the food and I went out and took a life, I took carefully skilled aim and the bullet ripped through her sending her many feet into the air as her back bone broke in two, her sisters stood there in great horror and shock and turned and fan off and I let them, numb myself and very sick within my heart, this Man’s heart, I destroyed her precious life and her children’s and her families, I hear her cry out in great pain and agony to this day it is haunting I watched the life leave from within her eyes her spirit went…
If you think that you are a tough hearted person, if you think you can face that mirror and look into those eyes I am betting I know you will kill more than the heart of that wee baby, I struggle in my writing and my many struggles emotionally and physically show in my daily writing in the moods of, but let me tell you this, what that wee baby is going to show you of your own heart, is your own call my friends, that wee life and life it is will show you your heart every day for the rest of your life, and I do, God my dear friends I do want that baby to shows you the Love of your hearts and not the horrible tormenting pain within, it is love now but if you change it to pain it will be your own call and you will live it daily for the rest of your lives, I am a huge strong Man a tuff son of a B. I have chased down bears in wilder youth and fought many battles but I have never even expected that I would I would crumble and hate my own self for taking those two lives the life of my own wee baby (Fetus-Life-hearted one) never showing my hearts love and life and a does life killing her and her families hearts.…
I suggest you print off these words I wrote and every time or that one time you have to make that dissection you read the wise world of this old Indian Grandfather…
Pavot
Wow is this English? These are the people who want to stop abortion, clearly he is smarter then us and has figured everything out.
My mother was forced to give up her child for adoption, by her mother who was a product of the times, my mother has not only never gotten over it , it has been the source of alot of conflict between her and her mother all her adult life, her mother still blames her for ruining the family, causing the family shame my mom is in her 60's her mother is early 90's this comes up allthe time.... (she blamed a 15 year old girl for her irresponsibility)...My mother a '50's child didn't know anything about sex that was the way in those days ...she has battled guilt and self hatred her entire life and incidently she is Catholic...yet she remains true to her religion and yet it was the central core reason she was not educated sexually....and IMO it does little to help with tthe guilt if anything I think it keeps her seeped in it.....
....My mother has known great sadness all her adult life, she tryed to find the child but never could, closed adoption....yet a day dosent go by that my mom doesn't wish things had of been different....what kind of society would call for this for anyone????
I think the right to abort is the womans decision, period ......if she chooses to include the partner in it fine but if she doesn't it is still her decision. and I think quite frankly everyone else should keep out of it...
....My mother has known great sadness all her adult life, she tryed to find the child but never could, closed adoption....yet a day dosent go by that my mom doesn't wish things had of been different....what kind of society would call for this for anyone????
I think the right to abort is the womans decision, period ......if she chooses to include the partner in it fine but if she doesn't it is still her decision. and I think quite frankly everyone else should keep out of it...
I won't get into this debate, because I just can't.
However, there is a non-religious, non-partisan, neutral website about Post Abortive Stress Syndrome.
You can fine it here: http://www.afterabortion.com/
However, there is a non-religious, non-partisan, neutral website about Post Abortive Stress Syndrome.
You can fine it here: http://www.afterabortion.com/
I have avoided this thread like the plague but for some reason I clicked on it and only read the last post, the one above mine, and well I have to offer my support to DeAnna's position. I have no desire to discuss this because I will end losing my emotions but PAS is very real for those who claim it is not. I can care less about the DSM-IV-TR and whether it is listed there or not. But it is great there are support sites for those who need it once they have made the fateful choice to murder their own child. Anyways bye again.
Yeah, I'm not getting into it either. Abortion should be stopped, completely. And for someone who supports gay marriage, you should know my reasons are not rooted in religion. I've argued this issue too many times, and one thing is a constant: No matter how right you are, the other side won't change their mind.
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