As a very young child my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Towards the end they had pumped her full of drugs. Sometimes the nurses just told her they were giving her more drugs to make her feel better when infact they were not they were just giving her sugar water as to be careful not to overdose her. Yet my mother still felt the same effects from the imagined inserting of drugs as the real thing. I wonder sometimes how much of what we believe or don't believe is just a placebo effect. Think about it. Have you ever seen a really scary movie and than had a dream along the lines of that movie? We are conditioned and taught from a very young age and from those things some of us experience miracles or experiences that almost always coinicide with our belief structure although on the rare occasion one experiences something that completely negates everything they have held firmly to. It makes me wonder how much of all this we are really just creating with our wills and our minds. I wonder if the same holds true for people who do not believe in anything other than this reality. Is the placebo effect somehow keeping their minds from seeing the extraordinary?

Crazy as it all sounds it is my jumbled thought for the day. I specifically wonder how much of what we believe or don't believe is just our own making of sort like an imagined drug. Perhaps it all is merely an illusion and if so I am tired of being the joker in the kings court might someone placebo me in this illusion as at least a really cool illusionist who has three week vacations to Fiji that are paid for? Anyone?

This is interesting, because I was wondering, what if Heaven and Hell is all in our minds? What if, when we die, the beliefs that we held in our mind apply to us when we pass away? Such as, if someone believes they are going to Heaven, then when they pass away, their mind (consciousness/spirit, etc.) therefore exists in "Heaven". But if they believe they're going to Hell, then their mind (spirit... so on and so forth ;P) will pit them in Hell. ...And if they don't believe in any of this, then perhaps their consciousness/mind simply drifts or fades into oblivion. :\ ...I guess this isn't really a placebo effect, more like a mind over matter kind of subject. :\

Anyways, I like 'jumbled' thoughts like this. ;P It gives me more different insights/possibilities to think about.

Aaaargh that sounds awful - like we all better be on Prozac and go to Anthony Robbins seminars to build our self-esteem so we think we are going to heaven before we die Just teasing!

But yes I think to a large extent "believing is seeing". Everyone has an interlinking belief structure which allow us to function - you can't be completely absorbing new information to reformulate your views all the time. So I think we usually register evidence in a way that reconfirms our already existing ideas. Some people do this more than others I suspect.

Hey I made a jumbled post too - they're the best!

There are many studies surrounding near death experiences and their common themes. Many researchers think that possibly the chemical reactions that the brain releases are interpreted by the brain as spiritual experience. These in turn are molded and effected by personal beliefs and cultural up-bringing therfore what you say could be possibly true- for example two people have the same experince near death- one sees heaven and a christ like figure while the other senses something completely different. I agree with you and believe that many people when they die go where they think they should go!

In that case, I better hurry to one of those seminars pronto. ;P With me doing all of this doubting and everything, my consciousness is sure to pit me in Hell at least for a little while. XP



I agree. And if I wasn't so afraid of the mods deleting my posts, I'd probably ramble off topic at least 100 times by now. ...Although I've only made 26 posts.



Well, I also find it interesting to note that many people say that we have God in us, or among us, or something to that effect. If God is everywhere and in everything/everyone, then we, as an individual, probably have God within our consciousness. Or our consciousness is linked with God. We know we sin on Earth, and throughout our lives, this may come back to haunt us, or it may not. We may feel guilt-free, or we may be burdened. However, in any case, if our spirit/consciousness is linked with God, then we know we've done wrong, and to what level, and know where we truly stand. So who better to pass the judgment amongst ourselves, then ourselves? ;P Supposedly all of our consciousness/spiritual awareness, etc. lies on a higher plane than us on the Earth (flesh) field. So no matter what we've done while on Earth, our own consciousness (God within) passes the judgment on whether we've earned the right to Heaven, or not.

This is all just hypothesizing and thinking out loud though, of course. ;P

A very interesting Idea indeed! So do you think then that possibly we judge ourselves? If that is the case maybe that is why the notion of God is seen as all-forgiving since it is your own consciousness!

Well, I would definitely like to believe that God is all-forgiving, or at least has untimely patience to where He lets us have so many reincarnations to better ourselves in order to gain our place in Heaven. And if it is our own consciousness that determines it, then perhaps whatever we believe actually happens. Kind of like a 'be careful what you wish for' notion. If you think there's a Heaven, and when you pass away your consciousness was truly living a good life and not grieved by anything you did while on Earth, and if you sinned you truly repented it and wanted a second (hundredth ;P) chance, you'll get it. I think if God is truly within ourselves, then He and our own soul will know what steps to take. There can be no one closer to ourselves and no one more knowing for what we need than our own souls. I mean, God also. ;P And likewise, if you believe that God is fierce and vengeful, and you happened to make Him angry, then perhaps your own soul would take out your own punishment accordingly, to where you'll learn your lesson next time. ...I love to speculate though, but I do agree with what you were saying about Near Death Experiences, and how some people have had different experiences, perhaps relating to their own conscious feelings about themselves.

good and evil deeds are like cookies. with every deed we stick a cookie [of that flavour] in the jar. now if we wish to enjoy the cookies in the jar it makes sense to only do good deeds.

you could say this is the heaven logic.

if i were to explain life it always comeback to food. yum

Religion is not simply a placebo effect for many because they have actual spiritual experiences and then some actually have non-subjective experiences where spirits manifest themselves in the physical, outside of our own bodies. It can be a placebo effect for others though I understand the possibility.

As far as near death experiences what about the people who float out of their bodies and can see and hear everything going on and then confer it to the surgeons who validate their experience? Not disagreeing with anyone but adding in a bit extra.

I'm not trying to give pity or anything, but my heart went out you when I read that. That's just so sad and it couldn't have been easy for you.



I know from experience that many go to church for that "hit." They walk out feeling really good, be it God or just the energy. So yeah, the whole "God" interaction has a huge influence on the mind.



We are creating almost 100% in our heads IMHO.



Quite an enlightened jumble if you ask me



The beauty of it is that even without God as the hit, there are so many things in life that can bring a similar emotion. You have seen from your moms tragic illness how life is precious. Sounds to me like you are on the right path to getting there, day by day.