ok... I was wondering about this and am interested in reading some feedback! faith by definition is like the beleif in that which is unseen right? So if i was trying to have a paranormal experience to prove to myself that its possible, and i somehow got the results that i was looking for to come to a conclusion that it is true. Does that negate the whole faith thing? I mean knowing and not knowing are two totaly different things right? blind faith or byass faith ( because you know it true)? Or will the proof not really be proof. Its just a self realization? like you wouldn't know anything at all, you just think you know kinda thing...
for example: lets say i was walking through a certain place(not important). It was dark. No one around. I started getting weird feelings which i think nothing more than health related.. suddenly outta no-where you get smacked in the face and fall backwards. no one around. nothing you coulda tripped on, lets just say no-way you could putt a logical explanation with it... would that be proof? and would that maybee cause you to be more dedicated twards your faith? and is that ok?
just thinkin.............
Full Version: question about faith?
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
QUOTE (bankai26 @ May 14 2008, 03:30 PM) 
ok... I was wondering about this and am interested in reading some feedback! faith by definition is like the beleif in that which is unseen right? So if i was trying to have a paranormal experience to prove to myself that its possible, and i somehow got the results that i was looking for to come to a conclusion that it is true. Does that negate the whole faith thing? I mean knowing and not knowing are two totaly different things right? blind faith or byass faith ( because you know it true)? Or will the proof not really be proof. Its just a self realization? like you wouldn't know anything at all, you just think you know kinda thing...
for example: lets say i was walking through a certain place(not important). It was dark. No one around. I started getting weird feelings which i think nothing more than health related.. suddenly outta no-where you get smacked in the face and fall backwards. no one around. nothing you coulda tripped on, lets just say no-way you could putt a logical explanation with it... would that be proof? and would that maybee cause you to be more dedicated twards your faith? and is that ok?
just thinkin.............
for example: lets say i was walking through a certain place(not important). It was dark. No one around. I started getting weird feelings which i think nothing more than health related.. suddenly outta no-where you get smacked in the face and fall backwards. no one around. nothing you coulda tripped on, lets just say no-way you could putt a logical explanation with it... would that be proof? and would that maybee cause you to be more dedicated twards your faith? and is that ok?
just thinkin.............
When Christians talk about faith its like part of a spiritual relationship that you have between yourself and God that will grow. It often isn't about not believing or believing because we believe 100% and that is our faith.
I would think that the rest of the people would consider it just believing in something that you aren't sure of but that you want to believe in or others want you to believe in.
It sounds like two completely different words when used by 2 completely different types of people.
Yes faith in God is as Meik said that it is a trust the same kind you place in a long lasting relationship as one might have with a spouse or parent. It is not blind faith especially if you get proof, not all subjective, and indeed people who consider faith often do not consider it is a word with more than one meaning.
As far as being smacked in the face in the dark how can you really know no one was there? Do you have any reason to suspect it was a paranormal experience. Either way many have seen physical proof that the paranormal and spirits exists. It might not be the repeatable controlled kind needed to be observed for science to validate but it is still real and allows people to know something more than what most people believe is out there.
As far as being smacked in the face in the dark how can you really know no one was there? Do you have any reason to suspect it was a paranormal experience. Either way many have seen physical proof that the paranormal and spirits exists. It might not be the repeatable controlled kind needed to be observed for science to validate but it is still real and allows people to know something more than what most people believe is out there.
i get what yall are sayin... it was a hypothetical situation. But still, if a person truly has faith then they shouldn't be anything to look for right...? doesn't that go against the meaning of faith for that person... i haven't had an experience that couldn't be logically explained. but it would be cool... but is it ok to look...? its all just opinions but i was interested to hear what others thought on the topic.. i know ultimitely its my choice. and all answers are basically opinion but... it doesn't hurt to ponder.
Faith is not belief, and believing is crap. Jesus says "yee have little faith" modern translation "Yee have little trust" Jesus was a near death experiencer or life after death experiencer
Takes one to know one, we experiencers can hear each other. Who else is going to describe God with such clarity. Religion is a cult desined to control the masses for money. Its truth with a nasty twist attached to it. Those who speak about God are just people who have had experiences with God.
Religions like allow and dis-allow information.
I saw a show on tv where a rabi translated the bible for the christian church, jesus never said "believe" The word he said was an odd word unusuall unique. The church insisted that the word was believe.
Takes one to know one, we experiencers can hear each other. Who else is going to describe God with such clarity. Religion is a cult desined to control the masses for money. Its truth with a nasty twist attached to it. Those who speak about God are just people who have had experiences with God.
Religions like allow and dis-allow information.
I saw a show on tv where a rabi translated the bible for the christian church, jesus never said "believe" The word he said was an odd word unusuall unique. The church insisted that the word was believe.
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 15 2008, 12:43 AM)
Yes faith in God is as Meik said that it is a trust the same kind you place in a long lasting relationship as one might have with a spouse or parent. It is not blind faith especially if you get proof, not all subjective, and indeed people who consider faith often do not consider it is a word with more than one meaning.
As far as being smacked in the face in the dark how can you really know no one was there? Do you have any reason to suspect it was a paranormal experience. Either way many have seen physical proof that the paranormal and spirits exists. It might not be the repeatable controlled kind needed to be observed for science to validate but it is still real and allows people to know something more than what most people believe is out there.
As far as being smacked in the face in the dark how can you really know no one was there? Do you have any reason to suspect it was a paranormal experience. Either way many have seen physical proof that the paranormal and spirits exists. It might not be the repeatable controlled kind needed to be observed for science to validate but it is still real and allows people to know something more than what most people believe is out there.
Except for the fact that the church invented "mysteries" as a term covering what could not be explained. These instances create doubt and the resolution prescribed by the church is "faith." In such cases we are told to have faith. Faith, therefore, seems to apply to the unexplicable. On the other hand, I have a red shirt on. I know it is red and thus need no faith about its color. Faith appears to be applied to those things wherein we have doubt. Without doubt, there is no need for faith.
QUOTE (bankai26 @ May 14 2008, 06:30 PM)
So if i was trying to have a paranormal experience to prove to myself that its possible, and i somehow got the results that i was looking for to come to a conclusion that it is true. Does that negate the whole faith thing?
I would think it would make it stronger... because now your belief is backed not only by faith or beieif, but proof too...But if you have the first, why do you doubt yourself? Your answers are in your heart...proof or not...
Blessings
There is nothing wrong at all with desiring to have a mystical experience with God, in fact, you should be seeking that more often. My own conversion was a direct result of a supernatural experience. So was Saint Paul's and Saint Augustine's. It is foolish and limiting to think that we cannot have these type of experiences, as if we are putting God into a box, and saying well, I do believe in Him. Are you content with that? One should seek to know Him with all their heart and soul. If you desire to have a mystical experience with God when you are in prayer or meditation, I fully believe you will have one. Why would you simply be content with faith and no exeperience, He is THERE, see? Sure, if you have a mystical experience, others may discredit it or question it, but who cares? You're not doing this out of the ego. YOU know it happened, HE knows it happened, that is all that matters. Don't ever think when you are praying, God won't hear me, or God won't show me anything or reveal Himself to me. And if something does happen to you, don't question it. Be greatful for it. We should all be after a mystical union with our Source!
Keep doing what you're doing, my friend.
Keep doing what you're doing, my friend.
QUOTE (Clovis @ May 14 2008, 04:43 PM)
Yes faith in God is as Meik said that it is a trust the same kind you place in a long lasting relationship as one might have with a spouse or parent. It is not blind faith especially if you get proof, not all subjective, and indeed people who consider faith often do not consider it is a word with more than one meaning.
As far as being smacked in the face in the dark how can you really know no one was there? Do you have any reason to suspect it was a paranormal experience. Either way many have seen physical proof that the paranormal and spirits exists. It might not be the repeatable controlled kind needed to be observed for science to validate but it is still real and allows people to know something more than what most people believe is out there.
As far as being smacked in the face in the dark how can you really know no one was there? Do you have any reason to suspect it was a paranormal experience. Either way many have seen physical proof that the paranormal and spirits exists. It might not be the repeatable controlled kind needed to be observed for science to validate but it is still real and allows people to know something more than what most people believe is out there.
Clovis as a person married for a very long time , i do not put faith into my partner, i trust him, i trust him becasue he has demostrated by his behavior that I can..I observe and verify that he is trustworty...This is what 'dating ' is all about or friendship or the relationships with our kids we build trust by being trust worthy by demonstration, I see more heart ache by blind faith then anything else, people miss alot of signals with 'faith' ......... ..i would not put faith/ trust into someone i didn't know,yet i would allow them the opp to show me that they were worthy of that trust and if they weren't i would move on.....
i would expect no less of another in relationship to me........i tell you anyone that asks me to have faith is an instant red flag, why would i need faith why can't i decide for myself based on the evidence???? why isn't there any evidence... ........
i concur with Ex...faith allows for any ole beleif and renders one easily exploited.....IMO
SS I understand what you are saying but there is more than one type of faith. To assume all Christians only have blind faith and do not have an actual relationship with the Spirit is not accurate. Science as you understand might not adequately explain that but millions of people have this very relationship with the spirits or the Spirit. Millions I am sure just have blind faith. One has to differentiate rather than simply assume. Again this is not about what science can prove or not. This is about actual culture and belief and what people experience. Science cannot disprove it and the faithful of many type of belief systems are not wanting to prove it either to others. So many of use are not concerned one whit with converting the world. If someone converts due to our daily interactions and find interest that is another issue. No one I know cares anything about fooling other people so that cannot be assumed as a fact about everyone who is faithful either.
Expatriate wrote:
The Christian church if that is what you mean did not invent 'mysteries'. Mysteries are much older but biblical Christianity in itself is not a mystery religion whatsoever. Many have blended Pagan belief with Christianity and a few even might include mysteries but the only remnant of that within the majority of Christendom is the mystery play, as it is called, put forth during Easter Time. That is semantics because it is nothing like the mystery religions that Pagans invented in antiquity.
Here is generic information about Mystery Cults though it is not in depth whatsoever. If you would like more information I could dig something up from the books I have and type out some excerpts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_religion
Expatriate wrote:
QUOTE
Except for the fact that the church invented "mysteries" as a term covering what could not be explained. These instances create doubt and the resolution prescribed by the church is "faith." In such cases we are told to have faith. Faith, therefore, seems to apply to the unexplicable. On the other hand, I have a red shirt on. I know it is red and thus need no faith about its color. Faith appears to be applied to those things wherein we have doubt. Without doubt, there is no need for faith.
The Christian church if that is what you mean did not invent 'mysteries'. Mysteries are much older but biblical Christianity in itself is not a mystery religion whatsoever. Many have blended Pagan belief with Christianity and a few even might include mysteries but the only remnant of that within the majority of Christendom is the mystery play, as it is called, put forth during Easter Time. That is semantics because it is nothing like the mystery religions that Pagans invented in antiquity.
Here is generic information about Mystery Cults though it is not in depth whatsoever. If you would like more information I could dig something up from the books I have and type out some excerpts.
QUOTE
The term 'mystery cult' applies to a few of the numerous religious rituals of the eastern Mediterranean of late classical antiquity, including the Eleusinian Mysteries, the Dionysian Mysteries, the Orphic Mysteries and the Mithraic Mysteries. Some of the many divinities that the Romans nominally adopted from other cultures also came to be worshipped in Mysteries, so for instance Egyptian Isis, Thracian/Phrygian Sabazius and Phrygian Cybele.
"Plato, an initiate of one of these sacred orders, was severely criticized because in his writings he revealed to the public many of the secret philosophic principles of the Mysteries."
"Plato, an initiate of one of these sacred orders, was severely criticized because in his writings he revealed to the public many of the secret philosophic principles of the Mysteries."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_religion
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