If your faith is called a lie, a piece of fluff, a crutch, a myth, or even heretical, why is it some will be offended. How does that effect a strong faith?



For me personally I only get offended when people tell me it's wrong, and then tell me why it's wrong, and of course the " your going to hell thing"

Because the satisfaction of being right isn't enough.

I can tell people think "hey you're saying my belief is stupid - that really means I am stupid" People like to be held in high regard.

I take no offense. I get offended when I see so called Christians operating through fear and hatred to condemn others as it misrepresents the faith.

I think being honest is more important then trying not to offend someone.

Girl: Do I look fat in these jeans?
Cadetak: Yes.

I may be weird, or maybe simply "thick-skinned", but I have never become offended at someone making fun of my beliefs.

For example, there was this very "sharp-with-her-mind" lady in her early 80s who was a nominal Russian Orthodox, but in fact did not believe that a G/god exists. We often talked about my beliefs that the Bible explained the truth about salvation, and she constantly put forward reasons why my beliefs were superstition. End result? she never took offense at my views, and I never felt offended by her views that I was superstitious.

But, I guess that's just one example.
Karlis

I can never understand why people get offended. I think I was born without an "offense circuit" or something like that. Why do people care at all if someone has a different ideology or even speaks against what they believe?

I guess it might all come down to conformity and the need to be accepted. I don't have that 'circuit' either.

(shrug)

Thats just stupid. People can be offended for lots of reasons, it's their god given right to do so.

No one is born with an 'offense circuit'. Why would you think you are 'special' in that way? People learn behavior. How moronic.

The only time I was really offended, was just yesterday. My daughter told me that a girl in her class told my daughter and her friend that if they didn't believe in God, then she was going to kick them. In this world we have people of different belief systems, and must learn to accept that. But, for an 8 year old to threaten two other 8 year olds, that really bothered me. Just because we don't go to church doesn't mean that anyone has the right to bully my daughter into believing the same way they do. Needless to say, there will be a call going into the school today.

I'm rarely offended. There are only a couple of things that can offend me. Religion ain't one of them.

I'm terribly irritated sometimes when people try to tell me what my belief is, especially when it's not what I believe at all. That IS annoying... but offensive? No.

Thinking about it perhaps offended is too strong of a word however I do get tired of hearing from others who claim to know more about my belifes then I do. Sad thing is that they have done no research on what I believe, they just listen to what someone has to say on it.

Sounds like lil' extremist in training.

No, I'm not easily offended when it comes to my religion or faith...the only thing I don't like, I don't like to be preached to. Thats the only thing that offends me, I don't fancy religion being shoved in my face.

I was just about to say something like that

A kick today, a throat slit infidel tomorrow...

Its not so much offended, I get annoyed at people for assuming to know what I believe. So many will put me in the group that tells everyone they will burn in hell for not believing as I do, one cannot assume to know another's beliefs. I was accused earlier this week of thinking others that don't believe as me are not as good as me or not good enough. That really got to me because I am no more important in God's eyes than anyone else.
Also as Belle says we all want to be right .


Always a pleasure

Was that an attempt at offending me?

I never said I was special. Nor did I say people do not have a right to get offended.

I just don't understand why people would choose to be angered and upset by someone else saying something against their beliefs. As if someone's words could negate the 'reality' of their belief system to themselves.

And I don't recall ever being offended in my life in regards to my beliefs. I discard people way before I get to the point of being in a discussion that could ever offend anything I believe in, within the first few minutes of meeting them. There are 6 billion potential replacement candidates to choose from.

It doesn't matter that someone may ridicule or criticize my beliefs, as number one, it will not altar my faith in any way, and number two, I love a good debate anyway. What does bother me is how some people will attack you personally because of your beliefs. Oh, I'm an idiot because I believe in a personal God? That does offend me. I'll respect anyone's opinion, I don't care what you believe. I'd like the same courtesy. I don't want you to judge ME because of what I believe.

I did get offended when I read and later heard now President Bush's take on Paganism, which was, well it isn't a real religion, or something to that effect. When the supposed leader of your country doesn't believe your belief system is real, that was an offensive thing to me.

Other than there is nothing that offends me, I have had discussions with people about being a pagan and even had one girl in one of my classes say, "are there still pagans around today?". I took as an opportunity to educate her that yes we still exist among a couple of other facts about pagans. I think if someone says something offensive to your belief system thats the best you can do is use it to educate. I'd try that with president bush but uh..well yeah..lol

Yes....my feeble attempt at trying to offend you!!!

You answered it admirably!!

I've no issue at all with what you've said, I was just trying to be a devious little sh*t!

Nicely done!

I don't get offended that much. There are only a couple of things that really bother me, but even then not to the point that it just ruins my mood. I got used to it after a while, and think to myself while smiling "if they only knew."

To give a more honest reply:

I quite often have gone through the day almost LOOKING to be offended. As if being pissed off about something gives you justification to be in a sour mood. If the guy cut me off in traffic, I was offended, If that gal didn't hold the elevator doors, I was offended, if someone wrote something off color on the website, I was offended.

I can't say I've cured myself of it, but the older I get, the more I guess I just don't care....and that makes for a much more peaceful existance.

only once has some one told me that what i belive in was not the truth that it was a lie,and i responded "ok then let me live my lie",and i have a bad temper so i guess he was trying to get the best of me,but i guess hes
the one that got ofended by my respond.religion is one of the few topics that in my opinion people should not get ofended because theres so many belives and thoughts thats just gana end up being an never ending debate.

Yeah, I wasn't impressed. There is no way that a kid should be acting like that, it makes me wonder what is being said and done at home.

So true, so true.



Now you know how we feel when you constantly attempt to claim what is wrong with the Bible when you actually know so little about Christian theology, to be honest, it is about a little more than the Sunday school level augmented by more sophisticated negative views that do not rise beyond the stereotypical. A little tiring to be honest but tolerance in your view comes with knowledge that you just do not take the time to foster a more in depth knowledge of the Bible and that those who dislike it frequently share the same biased view until in their eyes they actually believe it to be true. You might think you have done proper research with any actual research I am sure your case against the Bible would be more convincing since there have been more convincing cases made.



Stereotypes. It allows lazy people to form views without actually getting to know others.



When someone attacks my person for my belief which goes beyond simply disagreeing with my belief they lose any respect I might have had for them. I cannot respect anyone really that attacks people instead of just disagreeing with views. The worse is people who bash Muslims.



So many that Jesus never existed, that we are making up any spiritual experiences in our head, but it becomes easier and easier to tolerate such views with age.

The bottom line I think is that if people actually get to know one another and learn about their beliefs from a nonjudgmental approach they would not turn around and act on their biases and turn it into discrimination by making ignorant comments. The problem is not everyone finds joy in learning about others for the sake of learning.

I am offended when someone just blindly generalize about all believers of a faith.

I forgot to mention one thing. I can understand atheists attacking a Christian's belief in spirituality but find it harder to understand Neopagans doing so. What do they never experience spirituality themselves when communing with either the goddess, the gods, or nature itself? Are they in a dead faith without any spiritual activity? If so are they not just posing then? For time immemorial pagans felt the spirits and communed with them. I am sure some modern Pagans do this as well. But for those who never had any experiences of this sort such a sad state of affairs for them as much as Christians who just go to church to talk about God but never experience Him. Yes, I know Pagan criticism towards us comes in different forms but this is one point I wanted to explore. I also know not all Pagans are into spirituality but I kind of hoped the majority would be since without it is simply reading books and believing the concepts but never finding any heightened experiences within them. Or without books it is like staring into nature and never feeling nothing beyond relaxation.

I do know people into Voodoo and Santeria and such have no problem understanding the spiritualist Christian's view though we disagree on method. In the end I find the one who follows something for no reason other than to do it sorely missing something. For those Pagans who never communed with their deities or nature maybe it is about time they tried?

[quote name='Clovis' date='May 15 2008, 08:03 PM' post='2300720']
So true, so true.



Now you know how we feel when you constantly attempt to claim what is wrong with the Bible when you actually know so little about Christian theology, to be honest, it is about a little more than the Sunday school level augmented by more sophisticated negative views that do not rise beyond the stereotypical. A little tiring to be honest but tolerance in your view comes with knowledge that you just do not take the time to foster a more in depth knowledge of the Bible and that those who dislike it frequently share the same biased view until in their eyes they actually believe it to be true. You might think you have done proper research with any actual research I am sure your case against the Bible would be more convincing since there have been more convincing cases made.


BTW when people like Joey start threads & then tries to tell others what we believe I'm going to defend my belifes just like anyone would do.


I'm not trying to prove your belifes false no more then you are mine. Christians like others on here get thier information based on sites that support thier theory. Like I said let people read the bible for themselves I have no problem with that they can make up thier own minds about what to believe. NO religion is perfect everyone of them can be picked apart with ease. Christianty comes under fire alot because they bring it on to themselves. When ANY one religion tells people that they are the one & ONLY religion that should be followed they invite problems. Perhaps if Christiany wouldn't make such claims then they would not be attacked so much by others. Someone points out whats wrong with my belifes it's human nature to do the same to them.

"I'm not trying to prove your belifes false no more then you are mine. Christians like others on here get thier information based on sites that support thier theory. Like I said let people read the bible for themselves I have no problem with that they can make up thier own minds about what to believe. NO religion is perfect everyone of them can be picked apart with ease. Christianty comes under fire alot because they bring it on to themselves. When ANY one religion tells people that they are the one & ONLY religion that should be followed they invite problems. Perhaps if Christiany wouldn't make such claims then they would not be attacked so much by others. Someone points outwhats wrong with my belifes it's human nature to do the same to them."

.......Well I certainly agree with that, which is precisely why I believe ALL faiths are essentially equal, just different roadmaps or blueprints leading to the same God.

I guess it comes down to if we are going to be faithful to our own beliefs and respectful of others or if we are going to be dragged into a game of attempting to disprove other faiths. The Bible says there will be many disbelievers so it is not saying to go out and force others to believe and tell them they are wrong. Old Testament prophets told their own people they were wrong but did not do such to a disbelieving world. They told a disbelieving world we will take this small piece of land or do not keep us enslaved and such but they did not attempt to convert. Those who attempt to forcefully convert saying only their way is right does not represent the Bible.

As far as your beliefs though I have stated so many times I find them valid. As I said before which was the main point: why complain about other views that attempt to make Paganism look bad but then turn around and hold views that do the same exact thing? My point is the hypocrisy in the view that maintains that position. I understand if you do not want to answer that question and defer it. But this is glaringly obvious in your views from your many post. How can one reconcile that disparity in their view? That is what interests me and it explores more in depth the topic of this thread.

Clovis, I know you have mentioned that Christianity get 'picked on' more than other beliefs - which I agree with you it does. I think there are a multitude of reasons why actually, some which are very valid - why don't you start a thread on it?

Like I've said many times we're all here to debate each one of us is trying to make a certain point. You have pointed out some thing that you didn't agree on about other religions as well & I am not talking about just mine. It's my right just as it is yours to point out what we see wrong about another persons religion. If you go though the mojority of my post you'll see that I have not attacked anyone for what they believe. I will admit there have been some that might of come across as (trying to start something) Most of here are gulity of that at times. Off the top of my head I have yet to see someone of another faith other the Judeo-Christians that what they believe is wrong & or try to preach to them. I am only human like the rest of are here & from time to time we all get a bit defensive about our faith.

Like I said in my last post when ANY religion makes the claims that Christiany does it's bound to get picked on.

So your view is just to say not do not condemn my Pagan beliefs without full knowledge of them but I can condemn certain aspects of Christianity just because some within it might say they are the only way? I am trying to understand I just do not see the connection of why you said:



but then turn around and do the same thing? Sighs I guess I will not be able to understand but if what I am getting is right you can do the same thing you do not want done to yourself simply because some believe their path is the only right one. I still do not understand though why one would do exactly what they do not approve others of doing to themselves.

You seem to be twisting my words a bit there. I said when ANY religion makes it a point to tell or Convince others that it is the one TRUE religion it will come under fire. Again I am not perfect you too have done the same thing have you not?

I do not mean to twist words if you see that and the whole 'I said when ANY religion makes it a point to tell or Convince others...' seems to be muddling down the waters. I should have stuck to the original point I was trying to understand.



The only thing I really want to know is how can the above be someones view and they turn around and their view also does the same exact same thing. It seems like one person is holding two views. Or is it just a case of 'do not do unto me but I can do unto you'? I will drop it because I feel this will not be answered satisfactorily for me to understand and I have asked it enough.

I'm certainly offended when people tell me I'm going to hell for believing in what I believe. Try having one of your "close" friends who decided to dabble in Wicca tell you that you're going to hell after she backs out of the religion. Not fun, I'll tell you that. People have so many misconceptions that it ruffles my feathers when people say Wiccans worship Satan, eat/sacrifice babies (yes, I've actually heard this claim before), communicate with evil spirits, curse people, make people fall in love against their will, etc, etc. It gets rather insulting after a while, especially when the people who claim that stuff have no understanding of the religion other than the stereotypes. It's just not fair, but then again, life isn't always fair, either. I just try to educate people whenever I can on this religion and get rid of the stereotypes.

Every religion here gets picked on from time to time it's a vicious circle, like I have tried to state before because Christianty has set it's self on a pedistal it comes under fire more then most. And the only reason it does so is because it hails it's self as THE religion. So when someone who calls themselve a Christian does something that thats not very Christian people jump all over Christians as a whole. Athiest seem to do this the most...

Like I have tried to explain before this goes for ANY religion not just Christianty.

I will attempt to clear erroneous beliefs in the Bible but I am so glad I am not part of that vicious circle you speak of. I feel sorry for people in that circle, I really do, some might consider that condenscending but it is honest truth. How sad they must feel that they have to be part of that circle. Not condeming anyone BTW just giving my honest feelings. Maybe a part of me wishes they would all just stop but I know that the first step in that happening is ME. Soon as I stop judging and condeming then I am out of that circle and there is one less person to perpetuate such a stupid cycle that benefits no one. Someone can nurse a grudge but it really is not going to make it any better.

I think there are lots of reasons - personally I find less conflict between my personal beliefs and paganism/earth centred religions so there will be more points I disagree with. Pagans seem more willing accept new info such as scientific discoveries about the world, say evolution. So there is no opening to disagree with them. But if you open a thread on Karma, I'll disagree just as strongly about that.

Also lots of pagans/atheists/whatever are ex-christians so they know about Christianity and may have a reactionary aspect to it, and they know all the Bible quotes to go with their disagreements.

In fact I have mentioned this all before - even I am bored of myself lol.



GEE THANKS NORWOOD!...........

Oh and Clovis I thought about what you said about reading the Bible with more of an open mind. So I am!

[quote name='Belle.' date='May 16 2008, 12:48 AM' post='2301043'


GEE THANKS NORWOOD!...........




Your welcome! I have seen athiest go way out to make the lives of Christians pure hell at times. & NO I am not saying that all athiest are the same.

I'll try to make a long story short.
My girlfriend wants me to become a christian, so I don't go to Hell.
I'm like "God will send me to Hell, where I will be tortured, burnt, humiliated and sad for the rest of my life, simply because I need proof in order to believe something? Even humans don't hurt people simply because they don't believe in something. You'd think that God, an Almighty being, would be "understanding" enough to understand that some people simply need proof in order to believe in something"
And yeah, she got offended by that.
I just hate that "Believe or you'll burn for all eternity" thing, instead of converting people, it makes them annoyed and not want to believe in a God that send people to be tortured.

Everyone has his/her idea of what hell is some believe that it is just a sepration from God, others believe that your'll die & thats the end of it. I think some other people have thier own ideas of what hell is. Other then what I mentioned I'm not sure..

But most people think you're getting whipped and burnt every single seconds for eternity.
I know a lot of atheists that are really nice, sweet to their spouse, and would never hurt anyone.
Getting tortured seems to be an extremely harsh punishment, they're not serial killers.

Heres the thing about that Clovis for every Christian out there thier are some who believe that your wrong dead wrong in fact. No surprise that you might think the same of them as well. My questions is does that make them or just different? I've run across Pagans who believe that Christians are out to get us & we should get them before they get us. What makes someone more right then another?



There is a demomation of Christians who believe that vaniity is a sin of the highest. They do not wear make-up, all the women have long hair & can only wear dresses. The men have to wear long sleeve shirts all the time, they do not even wear a wedding ring. No TV they are not allow to listen to anything but Christian radio. So what makes them right or wrong?

I grew up in a church like that and they do not believe vanity is the highest of sins. They believe vanity is one of the things that lead to unholiness which they attempt to emulate. Those are called 'standards' and they are not biblical. The Apostolic websites have tons of discussion over standards with differing viewpoints. The problem is when some of those, not all, attempt to make others live by those standards. The church I grew up in has been changing. The Spirit seems to be stronger the last time I went. They do not cast judgment no more and the pastor said standards are not biblical. I admire those who dress like that, the Mormons do to, so do some Amish, but there is small differences among each. Even among the church I went to last some chose not to wear wedding wings and others chose to wear wedding rings. Some had TV in their home some did not. Things are changing.

What makes right or wrong is simply once someone judges another, attacks another, attempts to enforce their standards on others, tells another they are wrong, then they are the ones who are wrong instead. That is the easiest way I can put it. Point at someone and three fingers point back at you.

I get a little upset at people who assume that because god is a part of my life i must be a little simple. The opposite is in fact true ( no, not that im simple bexcause god made me so) i mean im actually and measurably very intelligent, and also quite complex.

I get more upset at people who insist that it is impossible that my relationship on god is occasioned by a physical relationship with him. Because they disbelieve in the possibility of a real physical god, they transfer that belief to my experiences, and attempt to deny their reality and thus validity.

How rude and also how illogical.

I have to mentally shake myself, and remind myself that all of us see life through our own eyes and experiences, and thus it is very difficult for them to accept my experiences as real.

I have to take myself back 40 years and remember how i thought, and perceived the world, before god introduced himself to me.

Then i can cool down a bit, but i still think that, while they are entitled to think what they like; it is a little rude to tell me that what i experience is not possible, rather than say that; based on their experience, or in their opinion it is impossible.

I agree Mr Walker. That is a major annoyance. I frown on people who use science also to attempt to disprove God. Science cannot disprove God and science should be used to educate and not be used as a weapon. Religion is a cultural universal for a reason. But I also see when they do that they fight an uphill battle because maybe in their small circles everyone has abandoned religion but it remains a cultural universal. If it is on the decline in the West it is only so not because of science, the majority of the West are not that bright overall since they just care for bread and circuses and are kept ignorant by their own governments, but also the West is losing on the social front. So many social ills that would not be occurring if we were not so irreligious. It is a vicious cycle where the godless ruin society and as society becomes more ruined it creates more godless.

That is why I admire all faiths because at least they believe in something. Pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintos, Muslims, Jews, Christians, at least they all believe in something.

Oh I don't get annoyed. I say what I think only.

I try to avoid discussions on religon as I like to discuss intelligent things most of the time, but hey I'll dwell in the moron zone for a short while.

What I have come to notice about religous people is that they are offended only if you bring up a point that they can't answer, which is of course a lot of the time. They will say "OMG stop being offensive to my religon' even if you were just bringing up a fair point.

Interesting. I come from a plain faith... we don't wear clothing with lables that can be seen (for example; you would not see me wearing a shirt that has Calvin Klein emblazoned across the chest), technically, we're suppose to avoid jewelry (I love jewelry though, most of it I make myself), we don't get into debt, we don't own more than we need, or keep more than we need, among other things. These are not hard fast rules, but rather guidelines to keep in mind. The idea is that reducing the clutter and distractions in life, promotes a better spiritual connection. It's not because someone wants to control us, or tell us what to do. In my opinion, it's pretty good common sense really to reduce the clutter. We don't expect that others would follow our lead though--I like to share this aspect of my faith though, because it's painful to see people I care about owned by their stuff.

It used to upset me more than it does now. Maybe it is because now I have better come backs. If I am in a discussion like we have online here it is a debate and I don't worry about at all. It is their opinion so I couldn't actually care less, but I will continue the debate until the horse is dead.