I've been thinking about this a lot lately. If God created everything, doesn't it make sense that he accepts all things and forgives all things? For example, my priest once told me that certain fetishes are considers sin and can land you in hell. Why? If God loves us more than we can even imagine, wouldn't he love us for who we are? I also heard that things like laughing at a God joke can put you in hell. Again, why? He created humor and our free will, so wouldn't he enjoy watching us exercise that will? Honestly, I think God is a relaxed, open-minded, entity. After all, he is God.

Can i ever show enough how much i hate the ''if you do this you'll go to hell'' attitude? its so damn stupid!
I'm almost sure its a Christian priest your talking about -__-
No i don't believe that anything as harmless like laughing at a religious joke, can send you to hell, i just call that ignorancy.

Through Jesus Christ all sins can be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Where do I get this information from? The bible. Maybe you should recommend it to your priest.

I'd go even further and say all sins can be forgiven if there is contrition (a genuine recognition youve done wrong and feel "sorry" for doing so) , restitution (a best attempt to right the wrongs you have done) and an honest and sincere attempt to sin no more, because you love god and want to do his will.

Grace and sacrifice combine to cover all sins. Blasphemy, along with other sins ,cannot be forgiven if it is ongoing or unrepented, but a person who does not truly know god may often blaspheme. When they find god (or god finds them) then they will repent, be contrite, and ask forgiveness as a means of making restitution to god. And god will forgive them, because he is ALL merciful.

In my view, the only real sin against God is the one against the Holy Spirit, otherwise, you are actually sinning against yourself when you commit wrongs. God is transcendent, keep in mind. I believe He does forgive all things, and doesn't condemn anyone to hell. We condemn ourselves there. I totally believe in karma. He 'wills that none should perish' and I don't look at in as black and white terms as most mainstream church members do. Its all about your karma! The aim of life is to become one with God, and the negative things we do create negative karma that draw us further and further away from this goal, thus the need to reincarnate. To end up in hell is for the immortal soul to become so corrupted it is unrecognizable in effect to God, hell is the seperation from Source. It would take many horrible lives to end up there, and centuries of karmic debt. Try to live the teachings of Jesus in the sermon on the mount, and avoid making the self your god. These things will help absolve karmic debt.

Like I said before and I'll say it again, I hate how some Christians scare people with Hell.
Christianity becomes a religion based on fear instead of love, for these people.

Hell is the opposite of heaven. Heaven is the ultimate place for eternity and hell the place no one wishes to go. If you think about it what does good and evil mean if there is no definition for either. There has to be a hell to recognize the awesome and glorious heaven. If one chooses to ignore God's will then God will judge them, it is not up to anyone to tell someone they are going to hell!

I am wondering though if this is a stall tactic to your girlfriends request? I do not mean any disrespect though. It crossed my mind that maybe your seeing things this way to avoid the issue all together. Men have a sligh way of doing that . No offense to you men out there.

Always a pleasure

and I've said it before( since I don't believe in free will but the plan) - If you believe God created ALL things . has a purpose for us and a plan then all falls into Gods will. every aspect everywhere all the time. He's the director and we the actors and this a play.

by Lt. Ripley:

Cut!!!

Seriously, I think this is the only post that actually responds to the whole OP's post.

I agree in the confusion that I cannot fathom how God considers something things as sin and bad, when he is supposed to have created them all.

I personally have believed, that a higher power is not that all omnipotent, and that the various beliefs and their leftbehind things, IE: the bible and whatnot, was instructions to take care of yourself in a world where there are things that were not planned by the higher power.

The God of the Bible set forth a law that does not accept all things. He has no need to judge us because the law set forth is simply applied. This is the biblical view only. Others have different ideas about god like he is all love and such. The God of the Bible did not create sin ot tempts anyone to do so. The following scripture dispells the notion that we can say our sin is just a product of the God of the Bible.



Jesus has no sin within Him and Jesus is God according to the Bible.



The God of the Bible allows through His Spirit the ability to resist sin.



Right before the temptation of Jesus we can see He was fill of the Holy Spirit.

The words 'Christ in all and in all' does not truly mean all. Christ is all and in all of the believers. If one reads the whole of Colossians 3 they can see that in context 'Christ is all and in all' only applies to the believers. Nothing worse than taking one scripture out of the Bible and ignoring the rest to make a point. The word 'all' as used in Collosians 3:11 is 'pas' in the Greek and I have highlighted 'pas' as translated into English below to show it does not mean 'all' people.



Not all the Judea's met him this is a figure of speech like saying 'hey you all come here' but some in the group do not come.



Just another way it is used. 'Pas' can be translated into 'anyone'.

I know you believe this. But I believe the words as they are actually written and believe it means all believers or no believers.



I have read the bible many times. Even after reading all of Colossians I still believe it means a more mystic context and literally means all.




Nothing worse or more arrogant who tries to say their interpretation of biblical passages is the only way.You may think my interpretation isnt biblical I believe it is based on how I personally (as well as various christian mystics) interpret the bible. I myself choose to believe in the english translation of the word all and take it to mean all.

Whether it seems out of context to you or disagrees with your interpretation I dont care (no offernse). The word can also be translated as 'all'.

Christ is all and in all to means that Christ is a metaphysical substance that is inherent in every single atom of creation and all people.

I sort of agree with you on this point. I have always said that God is in all the Universe. He not only is the Creator but the creation. But I am not sure if my view stands up to what the Bible actually says so always add the disclaimer this is my personal theory.

So I agree with you on that. I just do not agree that His Spirit is inside everyone because there are too many scriptures that say the exact opposite. No your interpretation of the Bible is valid but it does not represent all of the Bible or the view the Bible sets across since you disagree with many other scriptures and I even think you implied in one post that it is not accurate all the time. Something I disagree with. I might be assuming but I think your opinion is formed using some of what the Bible says and combing those parts with extrabiblical sources...not sure if those sources are other works and texts or just your own interjections but either way it is a valid view and I do not begrudge you of it.

You said this:


I just do not agree that His Spirit is inside everyone because there are too many scriptures that say the exact opposite.

How to do reconcile this with this:


That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 1:9 (my emphasis)


It seems to me that the bible bluntly states that the light of Christ or God, the 'true light' lighteth every man that comes into the world.

This is just my interpretation (and also of that of your average quaker). Which I happen to agree with. I dont doubt you could interpret it another way, however it makes reasonable and more importantly intuitive sense to me to interpret this biblical line in the way I see it (though my way of seeing it doesnt invalidate other interpretations because ultimately Christ is all and in all and therefore within all possibility and possibility of interpretations).

If a person said something really bad like "If Jesus came back I'd kill him again", would that be the unforgiveable blasphemy you talk of? I mean, what level of blasphemy do you have to blaspheme with to ruin any chance of forgiveness?

No, that is not what is meant by blasphemy. Blasphemy is to make the holy unholy in the deepest sense. Talking smack is what some consider blasphemy but it is just talking smack lol



Your view is not honest IMHO in that it ignores the vast amount of scriptures that point out that there are those without the Spirit. Romans 8:9 as well as the other scriptures I posted on the other thread clearly show some do not have God's Spirit within them. If your view was honest it would admit that it is not reconciling the many scriptures that point to not everyone has God within them and the few you have point out. For your view to be honest it would also state that it is picking and choosing parts and not state the 'bible bluntly states' your view because you are ignoring many scriptures to make that view.



Not only did you say the above but on the other thread you implied someone would not be alive without God's Spirit within. But anyone can clearly read that 'the light coming into the world' means it was not there always. It started coming into the world with Jesus. So what about all those before that time that lived before Jesus?



So no the 'true light' does not lighten 'every man that comes into the world'. The scripture clearly states 'the true light...was coming into the world'. The 'enlightens everyone'

Not everyone has that light:





Where does the Bible state this exactly that it allows for many interpretations because Christ is in all interpretations?







Who is this all that is spoken of in verse 5 above? It is those that are in bold below.



Not everyone has this likeness of God. Not everyone has the Spirit of God. You do not need the Spirit of God to be alive. God is not in everyone.

The problem is that the bible is full of possibilities for different interpretations. Obviously. Otherwise there would be no denominations within Christianity.



For instance, here is quite a different interpretation right here. With reincarnation and karma. Honestly, I am not really sure how one condemns themselves, if it was supposedly God who set up the rules in the first place. But, to each his own.





I always considered that to 'blaspheme' meant more than just saying Gods name in vain, or laughing at religious jokes. I thought that it basically meant to reject, or to accentuate a non-acceptance of him.

I believe the only instance of the unforgivable blasphemy mentioned is in Matthew & Mark:

Matthew
Jesus and Beelzebub
22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"

24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[a] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.

30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Here we see that the Pharisees attributed the work of the Holy Spirit, a miracle, to Beelzebub. For the most part, from what I've read people believe it really can't be done in the same way it was committed back then. If you are worried you committed blasphemy, I don't think you need to be if you are indeed saved.

I've always felt that way, even before meeting her.

Then scripture contradicts itself and the bible is invalid. Because my bible says:


That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 1:9

In my view you make Christianity an exclusive elite club instead of the universal spirituality it is by also ignoring scripture.




It simply follows logically in my view because 'Christ is all and in all' and also because 'nothing is impossible with God.'








God is not in everyone? To me personally this is Christian Blasphemy. To me God is all because through Christ he has lighted every man with a soul of his goodness since the days of Adam and eve.


That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 1:9


§ 3. But others will have this text read thus, not that the word enlightens all mankind, but that all who are enlightened, are enlightened by him, thereby not only narrowing and abusing the text, but rendering God partial, and so severe to his creatures, as to leave the greatest part of the world in darkness, without the means or opportunity of salvation; though we are assured from the Scriptures that all have light, that Christ is the light of the world, and that he died for all; yea, the ungodly, and that God desires not the death of any, but rather that all should repent and come to the knowledge of truth and be saved; and that the grace of God has appeared to all men, &c.


http://www.strecorsoc.org/penn/pcr_03.html


God is within everyone! As the bible teaches. Not all may have repented but all have Christ within them as a potential which can be more spiritually manifested when his teachings have been practiced. I think it is a very corporate hierachical view only to believe that a certain elect have Christ in them and some dont. Wouldnt make God very just in my view.

The Holy spirit is The other Half Of God, Fathers wife and your Mother Of all spirit.

To Talk against one's own Mother The blasphemer will not fotgive himself, even if while in Body he does not know this.

Pure consciousness or Spirit will not let one forgive himself.

Self Acountability is harsh.

Love Omnaka

The God spark, is in every human and every spirit ever created, It was God who m Gave bro Jesus his life and spark also, God Our Father needs no one except Heavenly Mother (Holy Spirit) To create with the love that God is.

Love Omnaka

The unforgivable sin or "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in the New Testament is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term “blasphemy” may be defined as "defiant irreverence."

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. John 3:16 tells us, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life." The only condition where someone would have no forgiveness is if he/she is not among the "whoever believes in Him." Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). To reject the only means of salvation is to condemn oneself to an eternity in hell because to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.


If we sin deliberately AFTER RECEIVING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment...were toast!

It is precisely because we were granted Free Will that we are free to UTTERLY REJECT God, to FLATLY REFUSE His forgiveness. And God can't do a thing about that, because he has given us the Free Will to deny Him.

God is like your Mom she always loves you but sometimes she gives you the "I'm not mad, I'm disapointed". God is also like your Dad who also always loves you but yells at you when you don't take out the trash and spanks your bum when you get an F on your report card.

Satan is your little step brother who's sole purpose is to break things and blame it on you and tricks you into thinking your adopted and your parents don't love you, Jesus is your older brother who does everything better then you and you know this because your dad always says "Why can't you be more like your brother?"

I imagine when I die and ask God why he lets bad thinsg happen he will respond with a "You'll understand when your older and create a universe of your own"

hehehe

your christian opinion may say other wise , but God is in all. weather you like it or not if you believe humans have souls ( that piece of God)

Agreed

How elitist is Christianity if denominations start saying God is only within a selected few or many?

Hahahahaha what if this universe now is an apprentice soul working for God? It could be because as the bible says 'anythingis possible with God'. . . . that includes the flying spagetti monster!

arrogance. myopic and scary.

The scariest thing of all is that anything is possible.

I actually believe that this is what the universes made of. A substance (which some call God) in which anythingis possible.

God is not in everyone according the Bible. Humans have souls and spirits too. I believe god is in the weather ^__^ just not in people who do not choose Him. This is just my view of course.

Going to hell for God jokes? Aux Contrairre!! God most certainly has a sense of humor. Look at some of the places he put hair!

They say that it isnt according to the bible that God or Christ is within all:

That was the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

---John i. 9.



In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

---John 1:4


So then the life that is in men(women) and the light within men which is lighted by the true light isnt God or Christ as the human soul or part of the human soul?

What is the fundamental difference between the soul and spirit?

What do you think it is BNW? I love hearing your views BTW some are so very close to mine. Watchman Nee is truly the expert on that question. The spirit is the inner man, the soul is the outer man, and the body is the shell.

The Inward Man and the Outward Man



Nee, Wachman. "The Release of the Spirit" Sure Foundation, 1965 p 10

There are many references in the Bible describing different types of spirit. Some people are hasty of spirit; others are hardened in their spirit; still others have a sorrowful spirit. We can say one has a haughty spirit, another has a depressed spirit, and so forth. Whence come these different conditions of the spirit? For instance, in a hard spirit, where does the hardness come from? In a proud spirit, whence comes the haughtiness? Surely our human spirit in its normal state is not tinged with anything. It is designed just to manifest the Spirit of God. How can it be, then, that the spirit is spoken of as hard, or proud, or haughty, or unforgiving, or jealous? The answer is this: the outward and inward man are not divided, and thus the condition of the outward man becomes that of the inward. The spirit is hard because it is clothed in the hardness of the outward man, or proud because it is clothed with the pride of the outward man, or jealous because of the jealousy of the outward man. Originally the spirit is neutral in nature but it can take on the character of the outward man if the latter is not broken.



p 43

http://www.peacemakers.net/unity/wnrelease.htm

Yes Father truly has the best sense Of Humor, Very mellow and witty, Loving, not how many picture Father.

Love Omnaka

I believe soul and spirit are one and the same and quite interchangeable.To gauge We have an out man which is the ego/body and a soul (which at its deepest level is God). I take my cue from the much loved ancient Christian mystics. Here is a taste of what some had to say on the subject (their views highly influence mine):

The soul is no different from Christ, except in that it has a born nature and created nature. Christ does not have this in his eternal person. If the soul shed her born nature and her created nature, she would be all the same, just essence itself. I say, put off your creature; it is easy to shed the creature, for this is a labor of love and the greater the pain the greater the joy.

---Meister Eckhart



To gauge the soul we must gauge it with God, for the Ground of God and the Ground of the Soul are one and the same. --Meister Eckhart

The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God, as if He stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge.
----Eckhart

Therefore I give you still another thought, which is yet purer and more spiritual: In the Kingdom of Heaven all is in all, all is one, and all is ours. --Meister Eckhart



The spirit possesses God essentially in naked nature, and God the spirit. ----Ruysbroeck

In those respects in which the soul is unlike God, it is also unlike itself. ---St.Bernard

Goodness needeth not to enter into the soul, for it is there already, only it is unperceived. ---Theologia Germanica


'....that Every Man was enlightened by the Divine Light of Christ, and I saw it shine through all; And that they that believed in it came out of Condemnation and came to the Light of Life, and became the Children of it; And that they that hated it did not believe in it, were condemned by it, though they made a profession of Christ. This I saw in the pure Openings of Light, without the help of any Man, neither did I then know where to find it in the Scriptures, though afterwards searching Scriptures, I found it.

---From George Fox's Journal

The soul is in itself a most lovely and perfect image of God. ---St. John of the Cross



Anyways tell me what you think. I left the quotes at bite-size but I personally believe they are spiritual insights that speak volumes. Tell me what ya think.

Yes very inspired writings, sounds like Father and Mother speaking through Eckhart. Especially the Labor Of LOve.

Simply beautiful, Thanks for sharing.

Love Omnaka

On a side note. Personally I dont believe the soul/spirit can be affected by the 'outward man'. I believe the spirit/soul remains in its pure essential state regardless what happens in the physical world. Just like the sun stays the same regardless whatever happens on earth.

As for parts of scripture that talks of the spirit being of different states of emotion and being, I believe is purely poetical in effect and therefore of a more symbolic than literal meaning.

No worries

I agree with some parts of those quotes but not all. I believe the spirit and soul must be divide for the spirit to break out from the soul. The soul is what keeps us grounded in this world. It is what becomes fouls our lives up in many ways from bad habits to bad attitudes. The spirit is what allows us to have God's Spirit communicate with us (not talk in language) and connect to God and for Him to enter us.

It is odd the following scripture is close to what Rusybroeck says but is at odds with his saying:





The soul is the outward man in this view maybe you misunderstood it. The soul is what traps the spirit which is pure but can hurt under the weight of the soul. The soul is our desires and strong will. The spirit is suffocated under that ego. Shed the ego and the spirit prospers. The difference in this view and others is we need the Holy Spirit to divide them and we less and less follow our own desires and wants and more and more let the Spirit guide us. We become vessels for the Spirit. Just like a ship, a small rudder can move a large thing and guide its course, for us it is our tongue which can move and guide us for what we speak has much power. The truly enlightened can control their tongue in all cases. I am working on that.

The soul or spirit is God to me (as with may christians saints both protestant and catholic).

Also it all depends on how you interpret things in the end. Also not all Christians value only St Paul's version of Christianity and also come to their own spiritual understandings via direct experience. Also much of the insight can be backed by the Bible however I havnt got the energy to quote all the verses from the bible that these great spiritual Christians
got their ideas. Also remember the bible can be interpreted many ways and on different levels.

But anyways you know where I stand. I just thought to share those writings.

The Bible can be interpreted in many ways if one were to ignore parts of it. If it says one needs the Spirit of God or they are none of His and then in a passage talking about believers throughout it all and says God is in all then it is clear to understand the Spirit of God is not in all but just His believers. You even admitted already the following things below which shows you are not interested in accepting all the Bible just the parts you agree with so your interpretation of it is not one that considers it wholly but ignores many parts. But I do know where you stand and I do not wish to offend or claim you are wrong for you are right to believe in what you do. I just wish for the sake of others who might be interested in what the Bible says to not get confused by extrabiblical concepts.








Muslims, Hindus, and Taoists do not view the Bible as their main source and that is OK that you do not either.

I have shown you how the Bible itself supports my view in post 20.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...26089&st=15




Let me show you also how the bible itself can be used plausibly to support my view and still be considered biblical.

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

----<< 2 Corinthians 3:6 >>

Does this not support that it is biblical to get information outside of the bible?

And also:

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

-----Philippians 4:8

Does it say 'only things that come from the bible are true? '

Hence the bible is also advocating through its own writings that which is outside the bible. However I myself believe that what I am saying isnt extrabiblical because I have used biblical passages to support my case. It is mere arbitrary whether you think I have used them out of context or not etc.


Does not the bible say:


God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (John 4:23,24)

Does it say whether only those who worship God under a certain belief system or not? Christ (as written in the bible) merely says that God is spirit and must be worshipped in such a way. And we can become like God because as Christ says:

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ---Matthew 5:48

Where is the father?

nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[a] you."

---Luke 17:21

Where does Christ directly say anywhere in the bible that God is only within the believers???




Doesnt that imply that God is spirit and that only if we are spirit (which is also the same substance as God) we can truly worship God in spirit?





The bible isnt my main source however much of what I say can be backed by biblical writings nevertheless. Just because you disagree with my interpretation doesnt mean my interpretation isnt biblical.

For an example when I quote: for Christ is all and in all. You said that the word could also be translated as 'anyone'. Therefore we could write the passage like this: for Christ is anyone and in anyone.

Therefore 'anyone' can mean anyone as in any believer or non-believer. So one could interpret 'for Christ is anyone and in anyone' as Christ is unbelievers and is in unbelievers' because unbelievers can be considered as 'anyone'.

IMO the light of the Lord is placed within every soul/spirit when born... I beleive the soul/spirit is one in the same...

Not every one chooses to turn the light on...

I agree so much with you in that the ability to connect with the divine is in each of us. We can choose to turn it on or not. I do disagree that the light of the Lord is always present in all of us in the world but not sure if that is the point you were making. The danger in that is people can go on being as they were believing they have the Spirit within but as some of us know the Spirit transforms.

Just that the ability is there for everyone ....

but it is not within unless we accept it to be within us to begin with..it has to be turned on, otherwise it is just a light bulb in a socket with no light coming forth.

If we dont know the Lord, he doesnt know us...we have to choose to know Him.

............<<>> Beside using bits and pieces from the Holy Bible that create the doctrine you spoke of from the above statement. What other doctrine/books did you use to create your doctrine?

The Holy Bible that I read & study. Contradicts what you have stated. Are we talking about the same God/The God of Heaven & His son Jesus Christ.

As I have stated to people in the past if people can't use all of the Holy Bible then they shouldn't use none of it. Because it perverts the true word of (God) and leads people astray to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons..

As these statements you made.

No where in scripture will you find anything spoken about karma / In religions that incorporate (reincarnation, karma) extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as will. In (Hebrews.9:27) - verse- 27- And as is appointed for men to (Die Once), but after this the judgment. That scripture tells me when your dead your dead. And there is (No) coming back. You are judged right then an there. And it is either Heaven or Hell.

[quote: I believe He forgives all things ]. Except (The Unpardonable Sin) in (Matthew.12:31-32) - Blasphemy against the (Holy Spirit).

[quote: Try to live the teachings of Jesus in the sermon on the mount ]. People must live (ALL) the teachings of Jesus Christ. Not just a verse here and verse there.
So as we can see it is (ALL) the (Word of God) or nothing............................Joey.