Huh? You lost me here.....You call yourself a Satanist, but you don't believe in Satan? Then why even call it Satanism? Isn't it then something more like Animism? I should think that a 'religion' called Satanism should presuppose an entity called Satan. Don't the Lavey Satanists believe in Satan? Lol I don't get it......take him out of the equation and it just sounds like either Animism or Epicurean, materialistic philosophy with a more intense, eyebrow raising name. You're a Satanist? Ohhhhh...........

As far as I can tell, the name "Satanism" just seems to be used (in this case) as a general mockery of Christianity. Personally I doubt it was even a direct choice on the part of early Satanists in the first place; the name was probably branded onto them by Christians and they just kind of let it stick to them. Of course, I could be completely wrong on both counts.

I agree with you about the worship of evil. While the opposite of good may be evil, the opposite of God is not Satan. Satan is nowhere in God's league. God is way higher, he has no opposite. Regards.

True Yetihunter, Satan is not in God's league at all. I was trying to make the point that God= good and satan=evil.
Satan in my opinion is the root of all evil,he is evil and what the definition of evil is.
I do respect the belief of others but the question was do I have a problem with it, and yes I do because in my opinion it is the worship of evil=bad. I know, I have read the post saying it is a belief and to respect others beliefs and I do respect others rights to their beliefs but I don't have to agree with it.
Why call yourself satanist if you don't believe in satan, to me it is either the worship of satan or the fact that the name associates with satan therefore you kinda get the shock factor as alot of people would say you mean you worship satan.
I do not know anything about satanism and don't really care to learn about it. The bible tells us not to worship satan or to do satans deeds.
This topic reminds me of the rock bands who use satan as a shock factor to sell their music. I don't mean that to be offensive in any way just a thought.

Always a pleasure

True Yetihunter, Satan is not in God's league at all. I was trying to make the point that God= good and satan=evil.
Satan in my opinion is the root of all evil,he is evil and what the definition of evil is.
I do respect the belief of others but the question was do I have a problem with it, and yes I do because in my opinion it is the worship of evil=bad. I know, I have read the post saying it is a belief and to respect others beliefs and I do respect others rights to their beliefs but I don't have to agree with it.
Why call yourself satanist if you don't believe in satan, to me it is either the worship of satan or the fact that the name associates with satan therefore you kinda get the shock factor as alot of people would say you mean you worship satan.
I do not know anything about satanism and don't really care to learn about it. The bible tells us not to worship satan or to do satans deeds.
This topic reminds me of the rock bands who use satan as a shock factor to sell their music. I don't mean that to be offensive in any way just a thought.

Always a pleasure

Yeah, you know that's how I feel too. People like Marilyn Manson come to mind; all about the shock value. Like walking into a church with a Slayer shirt on full of upside down crosses. Yeah, people are going to notice. I mean, without an entity called Satan, basically what you have here, in my opinion is a combination of Animism, general neo paganism, and Epicurean materialist philosophy all rolled into one delicious package. And while our views differ perhaps on other things, Sandee, again, I agree with you on the point of this worship being evil. Really, anything contrary to the Oneness of God, and our Oneness with Him is, well, evil. The concept of material Self, the ego, over spirit is contrary to God. And this is clearly what you have here; their view is the ego IS god. Lol, I just don't think this is a good path to be on. Oh karma, oh cause and effect......we often focus on the ego out of ignorance; you know, blindly following selfish pursuits; but to brazenly do it; knowing it is contrary to God, and to do it because that is so, (shudders), I don't know.........

Still, as I said before, I believe, Weregirl, you are on a spiritual journey whether you know it or not. So in spite of my opinions, I will not insult you, you are my sister, so to speak. We are all one, in the end.

But I have questions though: 1. you say 'summon the power to curse'. What power? You say that you believe in neither God nor Satan, but to call upon 'powers' to curse someone suggests in some form of spiritual energy, some principality. What is that? What are these powers?

2. You worship the self. But the self is perishable. What is here now will pass away, so will this personality, and this concept of same. How is what is finite comprable to a god?

3. Are you married? Do you have pets? Do you LOVE things outside of yourself? If so, then you are not strictly materialistic, or a Satanist in the strictest sense.

4. Lastly, if you answer yes to the above question, lets say that someone you love is in peril. Would you lay down your life for them? Now if the answer is yes, there again, see, you are not completely in the ego, totally worshipping yourself. An act like that would be considered SELFLESS. Completely contrary to the base ego, because the ego, the self worshipper would say 'better that poor sod than me'.

.....I'm just trying to get a better idea of what you believe. If its just loving yourself over any thing and everything, why call it Satanism? Why call it anything? Its just materialism. I mean this is what Epicurus, the greek philosopher wrote about, its just a regurgitation, in a way of older thought. Its materialism, plain and simple.

the thing is noone even takes the time to read about it so how can you judge it christianity and jewich and islamic are all bad religons you go aginst what is taught and discrminate and start wars. satanists just dont care . also Marylin Manson is a great guy hes so nice and caring also a high prist of the church. i do love things but thats not aginst our religon like gods or even scuicide is. but no i wouldnt lay my life down for anythign but one person i love and even then i would want to go with them. and no its not materialisum is more personal then that.

Huh? You lost me here.....You call yourself a Satanist, but you don't believe in Satan? Then why even call it Satanism? Isn't it then something more like Animism? I should think that a 'religion' called Satanism should presuppose an entity called Satan. Don't the Lavey Satanists believe in Satan? Lol I don't get it......take him out of the equation and it just sounds like either Animism or Epicurean, materialistic philosophy with a more intense, eyebrow raising name. You're a Satanist? Ohhhhh...........

Anton Lavey's version of satanism, to me, is more like a self help thing mixed with rituals, mixed with zero tolerance for God, mixed with sex mmmmmm sex, mixed with, ofcourse, Satan. Anton LaVey was also mixed up in the whole "70's" thing, but instead of being a hippy, he created his own religion. I like this one sentence from His satanic book, "You cannot love everyone, it is impossible. You cannot love those who do not deserve it. But you do love those who do deserve it" Really Anton?

There are also cultures and religions that don't belive in Satan. Some don't have evil, so including the devil would be rediculous. Also there are people who also belive that Satan and Lucifer are two different entities. And there's Spiritual Satanism where Satan and his demons are all gods, but Satan is the one and only true god. It's like christianity only with satan as the god, and everyone is responsible for themselves. I read this and became intrested in what i read, till i found out that Maxine Dietrich is crazy nazi woman, so i just stayed away from all that.

Most books talk about Satan as one of the fallen angels. The story goes that Satan wanted to go against god and left heaven. WHY would a ****ing angel go against God if it's a lost battle? There is also a story from a banned story from the bible that talked about a group of angels heavily lusting over earth women. They came down to earth and had sex with them, and the women gave birth to giants. They also taught men how to make war weapons. Oh and this began the war in heaven. But here's a twist, of all the fallen angels, Satan was not mentioned. Instead the name of the angel turned devil was named Azazel who was the leader of the angel. I think this was in the Book of Enoch. So really, nobody knows who Satan really is.

I'm not a satanist , but find this quote interesting - and true.

“Every religion in the world that has destroyed people is based on love” Anton LaVey

hahaha
ok so you think of satanisum as? feelings about it??

its called switching jars and yes i know i was catholic until i proved when i met pope john paul the 2nd *may he rest in peace* that the bible doesnt fit into a time line nor is there physical proof or document taion jesus was real..it is all fairy tales for people to make you act what they think is a "norm" or good of scociety at that time

Norms

Through values, cultures give shape to our lives. Norms, or rules that guide behavior, also provide meaning to individuals. William Graham Sumner (1959; orig. 1906), an early American sociologist, coined the term mores (pronounced MORE-ays; the rarely used singular form is mos) to refer to norms that have great moral significance. Mores, which are often called taboos, are exemplified by the American expectation that adults not engage in sexual relations with children.

Sumner used the term folkways to designate norms that have little moral significance. Examples include norms involving dress and polite behavior. Considered less important than mores, folkways deal with matters about which we tend to allow people considerable personal discretion. Because their significance is rather mild, violations of folkways typically result in mild penalties. A man who does not wear a tie to a formal diner party is violating folkways or 'etiquette'; he might be the subject of some derisive comments, but little more. By contrast, were he to arrive at the dinner party wearing only a tie, he would be violating cultural more and inviting more serious sanctions.

Cultural norms, then, steer our behavior by defining what is right and wrong, proper and improper. Although we sometimes object to the conformity norms demand, norms are the shared expectation that make possible a sense of security and trust in our personal interactions. Norms thus form part of the symbolic road map of culture, guiding us through sometimes confusing social situations.

Violations of norms typically elicit criticism from others, just as conforming to norms is likely to be met with praise. Once we learn the norms of our culture, we usually respond to ourselves just as someone else observing our behavior would. In short, we internalize cultural norms, building them into our own personalities. Our experience of guilt-the negative judgment we make of ourselves for having violated a norm-and shame-the painful acknowledgment of others' disapproval-proves that we have incorporated cultural norms into our own view of the world. This is no doubt what writer Mark Twain had in mind when he quipped that human beings "are the only animals that blush...or need to."

"Ideal" and "Real" Culture

Values and norms do not describe actual behavior as much as prescribe how we should act as members of a particular culture. Members of every culture recognize some differences between ideal culture, expectations embodied in values and norms, and real culture, social patterns that actually occur in everyday life. For example, the vast majority of Americans acknowledge the importance of sexual fidelity in marriage; however, roughly one-third of married people are sexually unfaithful to their spouses at some point in their marriages. These discrepancies are common to all cultural systems, as suggest by the adage "Do as I say, not as I do."

I know one thing weregirl, I thought I had a feeling what a Satanist was, until you came here and told us about your belief system. I know need to not make innerbrain quick decisions about anything. I guess, that is where these forums are here for, to educate us, and I'm glad you came on here and educated us. I'm not offended, knowing the truth of your religion.

This was in another post but it was an example of Satanist thought so thought I would discuss it here instead. Oh well here is a bit of norms from a book I have but I skipped out the long part about values. I wonder what you will think about it all cause ya if a religion takes over a society it will somehow begin to define some of the norms. But even in a secular society such as the one we are becoming in the West more and more norms are not defined by religion but norms are still part of any society. Does a Satanist defy all norms? Does a Satanist then not want to be part of society or do everything opposite? Or does a Satanist just defy religious and not cultural norms? Is there a path of Satanism where at the beginning you defy just a few but at the master level you defy all? Then society would look at them funny if they defied all norms. Norms are a necessary part of society. But what do yall Satanist think about it all?



Macionis, John J. "Society: The Basics" Prentice Hall. 1992 p 36

The opposite of good is evil.
The opposite of God is satan. It bothers me because I see it as a worship of evil. Of all the beliefs I have learned from here at UM satanism scares me the most. I mean what kind of person would choose to pick evil over good? Doesn't that say something about who they truly are?
I have no idea if they claim to have powers or if they do but I would just assume not know. God is always the right choice when the choices are God or satan.



Always a pleasure

I agree somewhat with what you are saying Sandee (especially that God is always the right choice because he is but we still make the wrong ones sometimes) but I'm also lost as well. For one there are other's saying that there are different forms of Satanism. To me it's all the same you are worshiping Satan and that is wrong. But then I think who am I to judge. Being I'm a Christian I should not judge others right? So like I said it seems evil to me but other's might look at Christianity as something evil or a cult of some kind you never really know. The bottom line is everyone believes in different things but nobody has the right to judge the other belief's. I feel that you might not meant any harm by what you said but how would you feel if someone reacted that way about your religion. By the way there are so many people that worship different stuff in this world that you really would never know by their actions unless you asked what their religion was. Don't be so quick to think that just because someone is real nice makes them a Christian. You can be just as nice and be a Satan worshiper as well.

Satanism in my understanding isn't technically the worshipping of satan, but the anti-worshipping of God. The word satan means "adversary."
It is highly ritualistic and from what I have seen of it potentially dangerous, but what isn't.
I would consider it a cult of the anti-cult. it is an organized group of people making a mockery of organized religion while satisfying their own lusts.
it is also wrought with sexual deviancy, and in this day and age, thats dumb.

I am not offended by it but i do think that it is a religion created for shock value

I'm not a satanist , but find this quote interesting - and true.

“Every religion in the world that has destroyed people is based on love” Anton LaVey

It's older than most "organized" religions, how could it have been created as a mockery for them then? This argument most certainly does not hold water if you think christianity or judism for excample.
How is satisfying your own lust not fitting today?

Satanism in my understanding isn't technically the worshipping of satan, but the anti-worshipping of God. The word satan means "adversary."
It is highly ritualistic and from what I have seen of it potentially dangerous, but what isn't.
I would consider it a cult of the anti-cult. it is an organized group of people making a mockery of organized religion while satisfying their own lusts.
it is also wrought with sexual deviancy, and in this day and age, thats dumb.

I am not offended by it but i do think that it is a religion created for shock value

...i satisfy certain lusts frequently...

Ripley, you beat me to it.

It is my impression that Jesus's message is about love (I was raised a Christian)...yet I see Christians discriminating against people all the time. Who is actually sending the mixed messages here? Ironically, as some of you may have a hard time understanding why people label themselves "Satanists," I have a hard time understanding how certain individuals label themselves "Christians."

as a non-satanist I am not schooled in the date of conception of satanism. perhaps I should clarify and say that the Satanists that follow Levey's teachings are the cult of anit-cultists that mock organized religion because the inception date of the Church of Satan is in 1930. furthermore true satanists are much more rare than people who follow Levey's teachings.

I didn't say that satisfying lust isn't fitting. I said it is what they hold rituals for, as opposed to having a ritual that focuses on giving, or sharing, or worshipping. Im not just speaking of sexual lust, im including a lust for violence, and bloodletting, and rape, and sodomy, and other things that are vile to me.

i satisfy certain lusts frequently, and without a congregation and without a sacrifice or simulated sacrifice. matter of fact I do it without any supernatural intervention at all. Thats all im saying.

I don't condemn people that choose to worship differently than I do. I just expect a viable reason for a persons beliefs, so that I can learn to understand it. Nor have I let on to what religion I may be a part of.

So Christians are hypocrites for not wanting to bow down to satan worshipers, please! I find that people who worship satan are doing so for the shock value and using it as some sort of rebellion whether it be to rebel God or their parents or just generally using it as a shock tactic. I am sure they get the reaction they are fishing for each time they claim to be satanist. For one to commit sin or deny God is totally different in my opinion than one who openly worships the epitome of evil. Why would one openly worship the symbol of ultimate evil? I say for the rebellion and shock factor or maybe they are just truly evil people who need someone like satan to worship and make themselves seem more likely to be evil for worshiping him.
Now the OP here Deny's worshiping satan and I apologize for my comments that may have offended her or her beliefs. I will never bow down to satan or his worshipers as to do so would go against everything I believe in. I have learned about other religions and beliefs here at UM but I refuse to learn about satan worshiping as it does go against everything I believe in and there is nothing or no one involved that I want to know about.
Does that make me a terrible person for standing up for what I believe in well if it does then so be it.


Always a pleasure


Edited for spelling

So Christians are hypocrites for not wanting to bow down to satan worshipers, please!

sandee, I think you missed my point. My fault for not explaining it fully. Here goes a second try:

When you think of Satan you get a certain image or set meaning tied to the word, yes? You take Satan to represent evil. So be it. So the question I think that gets floated around a lot is why do Satanists use the term "Satan" if they don't actually worship Satan? You see a disconnect by them using the term.

My point is it's slightly ironic to me if Christians are asking that question because I have a certain image and meaning tied to the term "Jesus Christ"--that being about love. Yet, I have met and known plenty of people that call themselves Christians that do not appear to endorse love as was spoken of by Christ, but instead practice hate and prejudice. So I see a disconnect with certain Christians calling themselves something that I associate with love.

Not all Christians are like this, obviously. But I think you are way off the mark if you think all Christians really practice love, as delivered in Jesus's message, rather than prejudice and discrimination.

And as to this:


That's not even what I said...as I thought it has been well-established now that many who call themselves Satanists do not actually worship Satan! Let's level the belligerence, please. It's a discussion.

No belligerence here, I did not realize I came off belligerent. I know there are Christians who practice hatred and discrimination. There will always be a few rotten apples in everything including religion. I am fully aware of the fact that some satanist don't really worship satan although the reasoning escapes me.
I have made my opinion very clear and if it offends you I am sorry. I have respect for the fact that your entitled to your own beliefs but I don't have to nor want to agree with them.
Always a pleasure

I honestly dont agree with satanism. Some of their rules I dont agree with, and I dont really like it, but whatever you want to do, its up to you.

I like how weregirl666 said that when she met john paul II, he said that the bible doesnt fit into a time line, and that there is there physical proof or documentaion Jesus was real lol. Im not bashing or anything, i just found it interesting. People will be pissed if they found out that jesus is false lol.

I agree somewhat with what you are saying Sandee (especially that God is always the right choice because he is but we still make the wrong ones sometimes) but I'm also lost as well. For one there are other's saying that there are different forms of Satanism. To me it's all the same you are worshiping Satan and that is wrong. But then I think who am I to judge. Being I'm a Christian I should not judge others right? So like I said it seems evil to me but other's might look at Christianity as something evil or a cult of some kind you never really know. The bottom line is everyone believes in different things but nobody has the right to judge the other belief's. I feel that you might not meant any harm by what you said but how would you feel if someone reacted that way about your religion. By the way there are so many people that worship different stuff in this world that you really would never know by their actions unless you asked what their religion was. Don't be so quick to think that just because someone is real nice makes them a Christian. You can be just as nice and be a Satan worshiper as well.

So Christians are hypocrites for not wanting to bow down to satan worshipers, please! I find that people who worship satan are doing so for the shock value and using it as some sort of rebellion whether it be to rebel God or their parents or just generally using it as a shock tactic.

I am sure they get the reaction they are fishing for each time they claim to be satanist. For one to commit sin or deny God is totally different in my opinion than one who openly worships the epitome of evil. Why would one openly worship the symbol of ultimate evil? I say for the rebellion and shock factor or maybe they are just truly evil people who need someone like satan to worship and make themselves seem more likely to be evil for worshiping him.

Now the OP here Deny's worshiping satan and I apologize for my comments that may have offended her or her beliefs. I will never bow down to satan or his worshipers as to do so would go against everything I believe in.

I have learned about other religions and beliefs here at UM but I refuse to learn about satan worshiping as it does go against everything I believe in and there is nothing or no one involved that I want to know about.
Does that make me a terrible person for standing up for what I believe in well if it does then so be it.

I like how weregirl666 said that when she met john paul II, he said that the bible doesnt fit into a time line, and that there is there physical proof or documentaion Jesus was real lol. Im not bashing or anything, i just found it interesting. People will be pissed if they found out that jesus is false lol.

as a non-satanist I am not schooled in the date of conception of satanism. perhaps I should clarify and say that the Satanists that follow Levey's teachings are the cult of anit-cultists that mock organized religion because the inception date of the Church of Satan is in 1930. furthermore true satanists are much more rare than people who follow Levey's teachings.

I didn't say that satisfying lust isn't fitting. I said it is what they hold rituals for, as opposed to having a ritual that focuses on giving, or sharing, or worshipping. Im not just speaking of sexual lust, im including a lust for violence, and bloodletting, and rape, and sodomy, and other things that are vile to me.

i satisfy certain lusts frequently, and without a congregation and without a sacrifice or simulated sacrifice. matter of fact I do it without any supernatural intervention at all. Thats all im saying.

I don't condemn people that choose to worship differently than I do. I just expect a viable reason for a persons beliefs, so that I can learn to understand it. Nor have I let on to what religion I may be a part of.

i would like to point out noone told anyone to bow and well some comments here seem a little hurtful

Perhaps I worded my statement wrong. I apologize to you for any hurtful things I have said as it is not my intentions to hurt anyone.
I know you said you don't worship satan and while the ones who do are certainly entitled to their beliefs I do not agree with them. I have no reason to want to hurt you nor would I want to, sorry for the miscommunication.



Always a pleasure