in my seminary class we were haveing a discussion on the second comming and its really made me think, is it comming?
in the bible it is proficied that it will be in my generation, just think about it,

the tribes of Israel are starting to come together
more and more wickedness is comming, and in the bible it says that wickedness will be really strong (i think, pretty sure feel free to help :L )
storms are getting worse and worse every year

Personally, I feel something is going to happen soon. Although, some of the prophecy's still need to be fulfilled.

If you don't believe in the rapture then we will see much worse than this for the span of 7 years before Jesus comes, starting with the Antichrist taking power. I am one who does believe in it though.

But then again:
http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

My guess is the seven year tribulation begins in 23 Dec 2012. The Antichrist will already be ready for day one. 3 1/2 years later he will be mortally wounded the the global peace will end. The worse of the worse will being then. Not sure when the rapture will happen. But in 2019 Jesus will come down and destroy the beast and all who chose to follow it. The Rapture could happen 10 minutes from now or 10 years from now.

Everyone thinks the world will end. There will always be prophecies of doom and destruction, but have any of them happened? No. Will any of them happen? Not likely. The world will always be corrupt; it always has been and always will. I'm sure the Jews thought the world was going to end during WWII. I'm sure everyone thought the world was going to end during the Great Depression. Religious cults have killed themselves, sometimes the suicides have numbered in the thousands, but we're still here. So who is right? No one can say for sure when the world will end. If it ends then so be it. If it doesn't then that's fine and dandy too. The point is, we cannot stop this event if it is indeed true, so why bother worrying about it in the first place? If the antichrist comes to power then fine, I don't care. I'm my own person who makes my own decisions. I'm not going to follow a charismatic person like a blind sheep. That's just not me, but it does describe the majority of the population. If the antichrist does come to power, it's obvious that most of the people will follow him/her (let's not be sexist now). The Bible may say that there will be much wickedness in the world, but in comparison to other events we've had, today is nothing. Crusades, the Inquisition, the Black Plague, WWII and the holocaust, WWI, the Vietnam War, the Great Depression, Cortez massacring the Aztecs, Columbus spreading disease that nearly wiped out the entire Native American population that came in contact with his men, the Revolutionary War, the Mongols invading China, etc, etc. I could go on forever about when times have been worse than what we're going through now. Storms are getting worse because of Global Warming, which until just recently, Christians denied the existence of. So really, it's our own ignorance that's creating terrible storms, not divine justice.

I agree with Lady O.

The world and humans have always been in a state of flux. I feel some 'wickedness' stems from the fact that people associate problems with the arrival of the second coming. Kind of sets up a mindset of them being unfixable and simply a fulfilling of prophecies, for example global warming. Gives humans a very short-term mindset as well IMO. Why fix the world? Tis all for naught as it ends soon.

Have you heard of the Seventh Day Adventists? They thought the end was coming in the late 19th century, and after several revisions to the date of their apocalypse they split up into several difference churches that were obsessed with that sort of thing.

Personally I detest people who are obsessed with the second coming and armageddon. Anyone who takes the idea seriously should be banned from making decisions for anyone else.

I need to ask a question...being that you are in the seminary and obviousely knowledgable on the subject...How long does this go on? Any idea how many centuries this very conversation has been going on? Well, of course you do...but really, how do all the the previous guesses of his return get overlooked? There are so many of them...There were people in Jesus' time who KNEW that they would see him come back...It amazes me to see and read this same conversation time and time and again, and it really does stun me...

After nearly 2000 years of this repeated Charlie Brown, getting the football pulled out at the last second kind of thing, I wonder when people will finally figure out that maybe it just isnt happening...

Well said (the whole bit). Humanity just needs to grow up.

i think this is how it goes,
either the great meeting with jesus, adam for adam and eve, the profetrs, moses etc.
then the temple in Israel will be built, that will take 7 years

I would have to disagree with Lady O's view. First no one is really worrying about it just discussing it. The Jews most likely did not think the world was going to end in WW2. No one thought the world was going to end during the Great Depression. Suicide cults do not accurately reflect a more sound belief in prophecy. No one is going to commit suicide that believe in the Second coming. It is a glorious and blessed event where Christians are Raptured and leave this world...nothing more or less. No one is asking anyone to convert and I myself am not following any charismatic person like a blind sheep and I believe in the Bible 100%



Anyone with a fundamental knowledge in the rise and capability of warfare among men will know that from the time 'for then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be' was written that things have progressively become worse. It might not seem like it because most of us live in the West but wars and calamities have only been getting worse. WW2 has been the deadliest conflict in the history of mankind ever. This is simple facts anyone can find. Here is a link to the worse natural disasters.

http://www.eas.slu.edu/hazards.html

As we can see things are at their very worse and if Matthew 24:21 is true, since when it was written things have been only getting worse, maybe they were just lucky guessers eh?, but if it is true the worse is yet to come. Worse than WW2 and mankind has the potential and weaponry to do much worse. We are in a perilous state with the bomb getting close and closer to terrorists hands. That is not paranoia but just looking at the current political climate and keeping tabs on world affairs. Heat waves are expected to get much worse. Those two are the biggest dangers the world faces IMHO.

Either way zankputo makes valid points and is not doing so out of fear judging from his post. Curiosity and gaging the thoughts of the users of the forum perhaps. What will happen will happen I agree but there is nothing panicky or wrong just to investigate such things as tribulation and the second coming because they are interesting topics.

I wasn't trying to insult you or your beliefs, Clovis. I was merely trying to make a point that there have been countless prophecies of doom and destruction, and none of them have come true. What makes the Biblical prophecy any more valid than these failed prophecies?

I know you did not ask me but their is a difference between being paranoid and reading too much into it on one hand and on the other simply looking at what is written and seeing how much was possible now and then. Before anyone says all this already happened in the past we should also clear out preterism while we look into the Olivet discourse. Some of these things just have not happened and were never possible from the time it was written until this age. Some things to think about.

generation' as used in the Greek means 'generation and by implication an age' and it does not always mean the contemporary age but can be used for past or future generations. The key is that when it says in English 'this generation' is to look at which Greek word is actually being used for the word 'this'. It is not always the same word. In some cases 'this' will mean 'this' but in other cases it can be either 'this' or 'that'. So just because it says in 'this generation' it might really be saying in 'that generation'.


When speaking about the Pharisees and others the word for 'this' in bold above in the Greek is 'taute' and means 'this'.



When speaking about what is considered the Olivet discourse 'this' in bold above in the Greek is 'houtos' and can mean 'this' or 'that'.

The reader can compare both chapters of Matthew 23 and 24 and see in the full context of how they are being used. Some believe in Preterism and claim everything in ch. 24 already occurred in Roman times and others believe what was prophesied has not occurred. Either way both camps believe it was a true prophecy. There are some who do not even believe in the Bible but will usually take the view or Preterism to further dispute the Bible has any relevance to our lives today but unlike the first or second camp they do not believe it was a true prophecy so those people are not really being genuine...

The whole of ch. 24 begins with Jesus leaving the temple and telling everyone, see this beautiful building, there will come a time that not one stone is left upon another. The people who heard this surely were amazed because it was an impressive structure. The Western Wall is the largest portion of it left for us to see today. Most of the stones left weigh from 2 and 8 tons while one particular stone is believed to weigh 570 tons. But if one is to read ch. 24 they should keep that in mind because everything after speaks of a time when those stones are not in tact.

One key clue is that the abomination of desolation would stand in the temple but how can he do so after it was destroyed? It has to be rebuilt first and the heart of the Olivet discourse. Also of interest is that there never has been a time where there was not 'one stone upon another'. When Titus ordered it to be demolished he left one portion standing to be used as part of a Roman camp. That portion is the Western Wall.

Some will claim as one of our posters has that Titus proclaimed himself to be God in the temple and thus he was the abomination of desolation. History shows though that after the destruction of the temple and sacking of Jerusalem that "Titus's soldiers proclaimed him imperator in honor of the victory" and that later "Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, as there is "no merit in vanquishing people forsaken by their own God"". Titus was in fact not the one we are looking for.

Here are other reasons why Preterism is not valid in that it ignores nearly the whole text:


This has never happened in history but some do say that in order for the temple to be rebuilt that some event might have to occur destroying the whole site.


This is talking about a global perspective so that the reader would understand not about things happening that the local population of Jerusalem would not even know were occurring.


The gospel has never been preached in all the world and was only being started to at the time of the Romans. "The Bible is available in whole or in part to some 98 percent of the world's population in a language in which they are fluent." source


Clearly this was not Nero or Titus or any Roman for if we read Daniel they did not complete the prophecy, for one to complete it they would have to be accepted by the Jews as the messiah.


Anyone wishing to gain more knowledge in this should read the appropriate passages in both Daniel as well as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Revelation.


This has never happened because WW2 has clearly shown that the worse did not happen in antiquity.



Revelation 19 speaks about birds being gathered to eat of the dead. The dead made when Jesus returns as Christ the Conquerer to destroy the beast and his followers.


Preterist usually ignore this as well and explain it away in different manner but this will be an event that people will see with their own eyes and mourn.



The Rapture has not happened.



This is the heart of the Olivet discourse. The fig tree in the Old Testament has been compared to the Israeli nation. In this sense it is thought that the creation of the modern state of Israel in 1948 starts the generation of which all of ch. 24 takes place in. That was 60 years ago so we are in the end of that generation if in fact the Parable of the Fig Tree refers to this day and age (generation).



The Jews during the Roman era before the destruction of the temple were in open rebellion and violence abounded. This does not describe that era.


Another mention of the Rapture.

I know some people here just posted to bash because its from the bible. "I must show bible bad". Ok, fine.

This unstoppable doom, why care mindset is not shared by all and it's unfair to say everyone who talks about the end of the world has the wrong priorities. Look at those that believe in an illumunati. Their beliefs taken too far will have the same mindset. I think it can be said for many things.

Matthew
The Day and Hour Unknown
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Luke
34"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. 35For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

I was not insulted so no worries. Just simply was offering my counterview towards your post. We are not all paranoid or blind sheep kthx ^__^

On another note zankputo the reconstruction of the Temple in Jerusalem seems already set to go it is just the political situation and taking possession of the Dome of the Rock for that to happen. That would take some events or two to happen before that and it would have strong repercussions thoughout the Middle East. But I am sure you know all that very well yourself.

Here is a link to the Temple Institute who are already preparing all the objects needed to resume temple worship.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/vessels_gallery.htm

yes, but it hasnt began construction yet

also we dont know if that meeting has taken place or not, all we know is what God want the profets want us to know

What meeting?

according to Jesus he was supposed to have been here already -

Biblical Proof that Jesus is not Coming Again

Archer then goes on to propose two possible solutions, as already noted. He claims first that "...genea ('generation') was used as a synonym of genos ('race', 'stock', 'nation' , 'people'). This would then amount to a prediction that the Jewish race would not pass out of existence before the Second Advent." (ibid, pg 338-339) Archer appeals to Herodotus and Plutarch for support, but fails to take into account how the word is used in the New Testament itself. A quick glance through any Greek lexicon or concordance of the New Testament will quickly show that genea is always used in the sense of a generation in a specific point in time. Nowhere is this usage more obvious than in the Gospels themselves.

Matthew, for example, uses the word in 1:17, where he counts "fourteen generations from Abraham to David". The word is again used in Matthew 12;41, where we are told that "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here." It should be fairly obvious that "this generation", in this context, is the one to which Jesus appeared.

The second solution that Archer proposes to the problem is to claim that "this generation" means (in the face of all common sense) a different, far future generation. "The other possibility is that genea does indeed mean 'generation', in the usual sense of the word, but refers to the generation of observers who witnessed the beginning of the signs and persecutions with which the Tribulation will begin." (ibid, pg 339) To be fair, Archer expresses some doubt about this solution, and with good reason: the context of Mark 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21 will quickly show that such an interpretation cannot be correct.

We simply need to ask the question" "To whom was Jesus speaking?" in order to ascertain the meaning of "this generation". It will quickly be noted that this discourse was delivered to Jesus' own disciples, whom he directly addresses throughout the text. "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately..." begins Matthew's version of the Discourse. (The other two parallel passages concur). Note how many times Jesus states that his own disciples would be witness to these very signs:

"Take heed that no man deceive you." (Matt 24:4)
"...ye shall hear of wars, and rumours of wars..." (Matt 24:6)
"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted..." (Matt 24:9)
"When ye therefore shall see the the abomination of desolation..." (Matt 24:15)
"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter..." (Matt 24:20)
"Behold, I have told you before." (Matt 24:25)

The clincher, of course, is to note that Jesus' statement about "this generation" is actually the tail end of a longer quote. When read in context, there can be no doubt about the import of Jesus' prediction: "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matt 24:33-24)

There is no need to twist the words of Jesus in order to get around this problem. We simply need to note that the New Testament itself indicates that there was a widespread belief among the early Church that the return of Jesus was very near.

I Thessalonians 4:15-17 "...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..."
I Corinthians 15:51,52 "...We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump..."
Romans 13:11-12 "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand..."
James 5:8 "Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh."
I John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
I Peter 4:7 "But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
Revelation 22:20 "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly...."

Obviously, these people were wrong. Jesus did not return for his disciples, nor at anytime since. We can therefore only assume that Jesus made a false prophecy, and he will not be returning for his Church at any time.

http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bible/notcoming.shtml

the second coming of jesus isnt when jesus gets incarnate in flesh nor is it when the antichrist gets incarnate. it is when humans as a whole open ourselves up to spirituality. jesus wont come to us we will grow spiritually and expand our senses so we can perceive the spiritual realms we share. we will go to him.

http://www.therevelationofthecentury.com/book.htm this is a link from a thread on this fourum that should shed some light on this subject. i found it interesting

Why is everyone so eager for the world to end these days? We give up on ourselves and look to our gods to save us yet we are fully capable of saving ourselves. Why does it seem like people want these prophecies to become true?

I believe it is already upon us, especially when a group of our politicians call the EU 'The Beast', and their newsletter heading says 'News from the belly of the beast'. The EU is described in Revelations, so I do know that we are in the 'end times', as it is obvious that we are being slowly stripped away of our rights, and governments continue to impoverish those of us, who are on welfare for whatever reason, while they live the life of splendour and glamour.

Woe be tide, to those in power, when He comes again. I know He is coming, and all the signs are in place. I just trust in the Lord and am not afraid of what may happen to me. Too be honest, when I see how governments like Burma prefer to leave their people impoverished and treat them as expendable, then I find myself angry and upset. I have a better quality of life, despite being on disability benefits due to my 'spastic paraplegia' then those who have been robbed of their homes and any decency of life. It is when I see those suffering, and I am powerless to help them knowing like Burma that the help won't get to those who need it, and the governments profit from their people's misery, it is then I hate being part of the human race. If I was able-bodied, I would go over and try and help those people rebuild their lives.

I am so disgusted that those of us, who are practically non-existent, until election time are nothing but numbers and fodder to fuel the rich, wealthy and elite of this world.

Those with even less, are proof of this statement. When you are down, it makes you more submissive.

there hasn't been a generation since the story of Jesus popped up that hasn't thought wrongfully he was coming back during their lifetimes.

and the only ones jesus 'said' who's lifetime he'd come back to was during his disciples. and he didn't.

Whatever some people want to think doesn't really bother me, what does bother me is when people with power believe in crap like the end times. I wouldn't want any nation on earth to plan like there was no generations after us.

Also bad is that if someone actually did manage to bring an element of peace to the world, then he/she would be seen as the anti christ by some and they'd work against him/her. One would have thought that the idea of the anti christ bring peace, even for a short time, would make people wonder about their god, after all the anti christ managed something great where Jesus only brought more war and conflict. That in mind I'd throw my lot in with the devil.

Of course none of this will really matter. We're going on an unsubstantiated book about an unsubstantiated god. Having the true believers vanish from the earth wouldn't really bug me though. Hope they have fun, I know the rest of us will.

OR NEVER.

No one knows the time of the second coming. It is not even necessarily a fixed point in history but may be dependent on many variables which may need to be fulfilled and which in turn are dependent on yet other variables. The bible makes this quite clear in very simple passages. Not only is it pointless trying to predict a specific time for it, that is antibiblical and counterproductive.

Wake up! The point is that we need to be prepared right NOW and at ANY time in the future.

He will come (in one sense ) as a thief in the night. That sense, is that if we knew when a thief was coming, we could stay up and catch him in the act. We do not, and can not, and neither can we know just when jesus will return.

When he does come, there will be no mistaking it ,as angels encompass the earth etc. But at that point, as with god closing the doors to the ark before the rain arrived, it will be too late to change your ways or even to repent.

Of course it is human nature to try and decipher the mysteries of anything, and i guess academically there is no harm in trying to decode this particular mystery of the bible.

Dont rely on it as part of your personal plan for salvation, however, and dont be suprised if any calculations, current or future, prove just as incorrect as all those in the past ,when people were sure they had worked out the day and the hour of his return.

Ive always found it difficult to understand how fundamentalist/bilically based christians particularly, could think themselves capable of determining the day and the hour, when our source book tells us (as another poster pointed out) that only god knows when it will be, and because gods chronological perspective is not limited to a linear model, that means that the particular date is not necessarily even fixed in his calendar just yet.

I agree Mr Walker. No one should base their salvation on any prophecy and people should prepare for their own personal final hour since it can come at anytime.



That is the Preterist view and it is not only accurate as my second post on this thread shows how they ignore many, many verses to arrive at that view but when someone as yourself, who does not even believe in the Bible, attempts to express the Preterist view it is even more highly discounted because someone who does not even believe in the Bible would seemingly not believe any prophecy in it is true in that case. So their view if they say a prophecy happened here or there is not one based on their belief in prophecy but is just based on countering the view of those of us who do believe in biblical prophecy.

Many will worship the Antichrist as God so you are right on that point. And it won't even be the simple minded or gullible calling him divine as he will be performing miracles and actually rise from the dead. If you do not believe the Antichrist is God, simply put he will kill you.



Are you sure that people didn't cause war and conflict? Take a look at what Jesus taught and then please reevaluate your thoughts. Jesus brought something more valuable than all the riches of the world, a chance to enter heaven.

It is a false, fleeting peace the Antichrist brings.

The fact that many of you are okay with the fact that your god will reign down such hell on humans, makes me wonder why you choose to follow him. Organized religion is such a joke.

Believing in an end of the world scenario for any belief system to me, comes off as it being a doomsday death cult. I don't see where there is any reason to believe the world is anymore wicked or bad than it has been at any time in history. There are always wars and rumours of war, when has there not been? Will there continue to be strife, hardship for some, disaster etc, of course because thats is how it has always been, before christianity ever came and it will be here long after. Human nature means we aren't perfect, we aren't as evolved as we could be, but it also means we are changing, I believe for the better. Thinking the world is going to end is really depressing and I think in some cases a sign of mental illness. Look at the Heaven's Gate cult or the Jim Jones massacre.

You have a choice of where you want to be in the end times, in heaven with God (rapture) or on earth with the devil. In the end evil will be locked up by God so let us not think He will always allow it.

Exodus 20:3
3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

If he is all powerful and all knowing then, he chooses to torture people in hell. His own privated torture chamber if you dont lay down and worship him. What is the point of living if you believe this nonsense? Basically by your belief, we were made to worship him. Man, thats some ego on his part. Manufacturing your on worshipers.

Maybe you have not considered all the other reasons why we believe. Either way not all of us believe 'god will reign down such hell on humans' when only the beast and those who choose to follow him in our view are going to face Christ the Conqueror. Again know one knows when this will happen but we keep our eyes open and compare the signs of the times to the Word. Nothing wrong with that.

We have many reasons to believe we are near the end and it is not a doomsday death cult. Wars have been progressively escalating in their capability to do more increasingly amounts of damage and take greater tolls on human life. To think our views are depressiing or might be diagnosis of mental illness might be taken as an offense. We find joy in the return of Christ it is not depressing. I also do not think anyone can make a diagnosis of mental illness based on this view which many share. Comparing us to Heaven's Gate or Jim Jones is so far off the mark especially when one looks into them and sees what a world of modern day believers really has in common with them. That would mean you study both of them in depth instead of just cherry picking what you think the worse is between both of them and comparing them.



Another reason the above view is unhealthy is that it leads to a lack of true cult awareness. So when this type of cult activity, since not all cults are bad automatically, does happen it would be harder to see the signs if we believe all religious beliefs applied to the end times are the same. Also it is not like everyone is not shocked when Jim Jones massacre or Heaven's Gate's mass suicide occurred.

It is also lazy stereotyping to have such a view as in the above quotes and it might cause offense in others. But I am not going to be offended by the ignorance displayed in someone's view and would just encourage them to learn more because their view is not really valid and only casts fingers at others.

By the view we have we were made to choose. No one is forced to worship God and everyone has a choice and some choose not to even believe in Him. The point of living this life is for the many benefits we find in it. End times is such a small part of our world view. As far as Him choosing to torture people in hell that is not what the Bible says at all though that is a common misconception. The choice to believe is yours and no one is going to force you one way or another. Live and let live.

If God is in heaven and Satan is on Earth then that means the throne of Hell will be vacant...hmmm.

If not believing means you are sentenced to hell, then that is not a choice. THAT is a threat. Its not a miconception, its what your christian mythos says.


Perhaps you should apply. I heard the pay is pretty good.

I think you are misinformed on the definition of hell. In the simplest way I can explain it: It is a place void God. God is love, God is the light, etc.



No, free will allows us to choose what we want to do. Believe or not believe. Look at the angel Lucifer. Is Lucifer being forced to worship God? No, we know from the bible Lucifer was cast out of heaven for choosing not to.

What makes you think there is a ruler in hell? Everyone suffers the same.

There are mentions of fire and torture in hell. So its a little bit more than void of god. Once again, if it is a choice to worship, or burn in hell, than it is not really a choice. To live for a religion is different way of selling your soul.

Just a second ago, you were saying it was just a void of god, now your saying it is suffering. Typical christian. Talking out both sides of the same mouth.

Yes, it is a simplistic view of hell. Let me quote what I said earlier.



Those who reject or refuse God will get what they want. A place where God is basically absent. Is this not fair?

Well apperently during the rapture all the guys who make the fire and brimstone are going to be on Earth so all I have to do is go down there with a water gun, put out all the fire and build my luzury resort and casino. While your all on earth being tormented or in heaven playing harps and trumpets I'll be at the blackjack table.

What makes you think theres a hell at all?

Did you just ignore the following words or what?



Forgive me for helping visualize what a hell could encompass in the restraints of the human mind.

Sure. I forgive you. Boo ya.

A book of mythology is where they get that info.

No. Its only fair from the perspective of a blind believer.

Thanks for reading all the words this time. Good habits as such can help us avoid some of these tangents we go off in to and actually have a good discussion.

None of those reasons seem valid in that they often used by so called prophets who give a specific date for the end of the world only to be shown that the world just keeps on spinning. While you as a believer might find the idea of the return of christ appealing, those of us who do not believe look at the scenario and see it a wee bit differently wouldn't you say? It seems some christians revel in the idea of the rapure and the end of the world, whole series of books are written about it for some kind of entertainment (Left Behind Series?). Expecting the return of Jesus if that were all it were, not so bad, but believing that all the dead will rise and be judged, expecting that the ones who don't make the cut roast in a fiery hell for eternity, to me and not just to me, seems like a rather horrid thing to WANT to happen. I know about cults and one of the symptoms of a cult is expecting an ending that can include mass suicide when the messiah (whatever form its supposed to come in) either doesn't show up or doesn't show up in the allotted time. Cults by the way are all bad, they are by definition cults, they seperate people, indoctrinate them, etc.

I don't believe I was lazy or stereotyping, I was pointing out that saying one expect's for the world to end IS at times a sign of mental illness, this isn't a big shocker. Would you have called David Koresh sane?

I find it strange that a world with a population crisis, diminishing environment and social/political upheaval is all related to scripture rather than human ignorance. The "second coming" (thanks to Justin Martyr) is a second century concept that has found its way into the vocabulary of religion while the "rapture" is an even newer conservative protestant belief that it is ignored by the vast majority of liberal Christian theologians.

hey I'm just quoting what Jesus said. if you want to twist it to mean something else , that he was coming back with no expiration date that's up to your interpretation.