And if you don't mind the humanists spin on that, Christ is the guy who tells us to get along and be nice to each other, who we kill, but he'll keep coming back with the same message in a different incarnation until we listen.




Is anyone else mortified at the fact that the country with the second highest amount of nuclear weapons in the world has a rapture fetish?

Especially a country that allowed an evangical Christian into the White House. Let's just thank God that Mike Huckabee didn't get the nomination.

For all the faults America has it has historically shown that it has been responsible throughout all of its administration of not wanting to use nuclear weapons. Reagan was actually the exception to this rule and yes he claimed Christianity. But your claim that Christians in office would use nuclear weapons to start the tribulation or any other configuration that you might implied is quite hyperbolic and malignant towards Christianity. Now that you mention this it makes me reconsider the belief that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be eager to start war to prepare for the Mahdi to appear since he is going to appear in their view during a war.

Either way Christian thought in America is not about great and fantastic wars but it is about Christ simply coming one day to Rapture them from this world, in silence, in peace, without causing harm to none. It is men who will make their own wars with Christians, at least the ones who only follow the Bible, outside of that. We will have no control of when the wars begin and such and we are to the conclusion that only evil men begin wars. Sure there is a sharp divide between us who fall more into the evangelical camp and some of the war mongering fundamentalist as far as using those terms in the socio-political sense.

I didn't mean to claim that Christians in general would want that. Hopefully they view the human race as an entity with a right to exist and determine it's own destiny while we're here, and not just a vessel for souls that'll wind up in a dead end like the rapture. The people who seriously consider that Armageddon is looming frighten me, because there's no rational basis for it, nobody takes Ragnarok seriously anymore do they? Sure Reagan seemed to be one of them, and I regard him as the most evil president to ever reign, and the first serious criminal to be given a state funeral in the west this century. Thankfully he didn't try to force Armageddon using the pile of nukes lying around. And I don't think anyone should have nukes to begin with, regardless of their nationality or religious beliefs, but they're more dangerous in the hands of religious fanatics who don't understand MAD.

Actually we do control the destiny of the human race, so couldn't we avoid the rapture and Armageddon by limiting the size and scale of wars, who knows, maybe that's what God's intention is, for us to overcome our destructive nature so we don't have to go through that. You never know.

There are so many interpretations of what the Bible says alone about the 'second coming' that I think it's futile and a waste of time to worry about it, or to try and convince someone else to believe your theory.

This has been a topic of fear and worry and debate for thousands of years. People mix beliefs from all corners of the earth together to form a theory, when the original unmixed beliefs were confusing or misinterpreted enough in the first place. You can see it going on with people associating the Mayan 2012 doomsday theories with Christianity.

No one theory can be proven right until it happens, at which time I don't think people will be too concerned with who had the correct theory in the first place. For example, I don't think there is going to be a second coming of Christ. However, in the greater scheme of things, my theory is just as unimportant as everyone elses.

It is not only a humanist spin but a hindu one. Or if you are open minded enough the true Christian one.

Agreed. Christ is just one of many great spiritual teachers who are one with Nirvana or God who incarnated to teach everyone that their true nature also is one with God or Nirvana. As long as there is spiritual darkness amongst humans or whatever other beings out there, the Word is gonna 'be made flesh' so to speak.

Haha once again I totally agree with you bro. If you read the Baghavad Gita, the similarities between Krishna and Christ are eerily similar. In fact, when you look at certain gnostic teachings of Christianity and compare it to Hinduism, you will see a lot of parallels. This is why I am so fond of Hinduism, it is without a doubt the most influential religion to me outside of Christianity. I would go so far as to say that Krishna WAS Christ. A different incarnation of Jesus, just the same. The Master choosing to incarnate to enlighten us, help us get down the right path. Christ is the perfect Adam, present in every religion.

In my opinion that is what the Scripture "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" means. He IS the way. He is the pattern we are to follow, to reach a reconcilliation to God.

The second comming if it occures in the next 50 years will have a lot to do with the media. If after that then it will be a whole new kind of second arrival. I believe that there have already been a few that were born(sent) who were the messiah (in principle) - the second comming- but they have thus far failed and the darkness looms. Its a roll of the dice.

By "open minded" I would assume you mean "liberal". The quote reminds me of something from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which read: “2000 years ago one man got nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be if everyone was nice to each other for a change.” And in the most liberal sense, I see the meaning. But from the "true Christian" meaning, there is much more at stake - salvation. And this salvation is not by simply "being nice to each other" (though it would be great if people could do this) but by Faith in the promises of God. I do understand that you don't take the Bible literally and don't really care whether Jesus even existed, but for some of us who view the Bible as the true word of God, that explanation does not gel.

I respect your view, BNW, and wish you best in your life's path, but I do not think you are correct on this point (though conversely I'm sure you could say the same about me, lol). All the best,

As for second comings, here are a few predictions people made (though this was technically about the "rapture", not the second coming, so there would be some slight discrepency in time since they are not the same event, but they are close enough):

Some notable rapture predictions include the following:

* 1792 - Shakers calculated this date
* 1844 - William Miller, founder of the Millerites, predicted the return of Christ to occur on October 22, 1844 revised after an initial prediction for the 1843/1844 Hebrew Year. The failure of Jesus to appear on this date after his followers had sold all their possessions was referred to as The Great Disappointment.
* 1981 - Chuck Smith undogmatically predicted that Jesus would likely return by 1981.
* 1988 - Publication of 88 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1988, by Edgar C. Whisenant.
* 1989 - Publication of The final shout: Rapture report 1989, by Edgar Whisenant. More predictions by this author appeared for 1992, 1995, and other years.
* 1992 - Korean group "Mission for the Coming Days" predicted October 28, 1992 as the date for the rapture.[24]
* 1993 - Seven years before the year 2000. The rapture would have to start to allow for seven years of the Tribulation before the Return in 2000. Multiple predictions.
* 1994 - Pastor John Hinkle of Christ Church in Los Angeles predicted June 9, 1994. Radio evangelist Harold Camping predicted September 27, 1994.[25]
* 1997 - Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club predicted September 12, 1997.
* 1998 - Marilyn Agee, in The End of the Age, predicted May 31, 1998.
* 2060 - Sir Isaac Newton undogmatically proposed, based upon his calculations using figures from the book of Daniel, that the rapture could happen no earlier than 2060.

Source

I think I've actually worked out the date for Jesus' return (well, at the least the time period). Everyone (by "everyone", I mean many people, obviously not everyone has) at some point has said that Jesus would return sometime. Many today say "within the next 30 years" (or something similar). And if Jesus does return then, their belief is validated. But Jesus says that no one can know the day or the hour. So..... on a purely logical level, Jesus can only return when no one expects him, but if people expect him "within the next 30 years", logically it won't happen. So since there is always at least one person expecting it at some stage, it can't happen. Or, if it does, it will be at a time when Christianity either no longer exists in the sense that no one any longer believes it, or that it has changed to remove the return of Christ as a major doctrine. But paradoxically, since I have stated that it will happen when no one ever expects it, then even if I am dead, I will have expected it to happen when no one expected it, and so my belief will be validated, so even this cannot be the correct answer......

Naturally, everything I have just said I completely disagree with. I think Jesus will return one day, though I cannot say when and would not even presume to say "within the next x number of years". But the mind does strange things at this time of night, hence this post of mine. I hope this makes some semblance of sense. all the best, folks

I disagree. One can have faith in the promises of God but as notorious as Adolf Hitler or Martin Luther. Faith helps one practice good works (detachment and charity, old bible meaningof chairty) which in turn allows one to feel the grace of God which in my view is salvation. Just believing in the promises of does little to nothing for one's spirituality in my view.





I take some parts literally and some parts symbolically. But yes we ought to agree to disagree here. By the way I respect your view and think the guide to the galaxy quote is awesome.

Hi -- do you mean that you do not agree with Scriptures that say Jesus will return to this planet Earth, to rule over the nations?

Just curious as to your interpretations of Scriptures,
Karlis

I see exactly what you're saying, and agree. Just "believing "in the promises does nothing. Even the demons believe, but they shudder at the thought. Though I hope you realise that when I say "Faith in the promises of God", I am speaking of more than just believing. I do see that there is a modern tendency to group "faith" and "Belief" as the same, but i don't see them as such. faith without works is dead. We are saved through Faith alone, but our Faith is expressed in what we do.

Likewise, I'm not saying that everything in the Bible is literal (nor am I saying you believe it all to be symbolic). I was simply addressing one point about the nature of Christianity. All the best, BNW. As you may have noticed, I'm a bit of a Hitchhiker's fan (completely ignore the username, signature and profile quote..... )

I see what you mean. Where we part though is that you believe good works has to be couped with the specific belief (and belief or faith in this belief) that God sent his only begotten Son for our sins. I think good works with or without this belief can lead one to salvation.




I am dense. I always thought it was because you were a fan of 'Radio head' lol.

Hopefully we view the human race as an entity with a right to exist and determine it's own destiny while we're here, and not just a vessel for souls that'll wind up in a dead end like the rapture? When you make statements like that you do add in a little hint that in some way we do not value human life, ours, or our neighbors. Sure we view this world as transient and us just passing through but it is what we do here that decided what happens next. Starting wars or not valuing the gift of life goes counter to biblical principles. The people who consider that Armageddon is looming should not frighten you. I believe it and am not going to harm anyone, take my life, or encourage anyone to do anything drastic other than live and live well. Your fright is unfounded and based on propaganda!

Reagan I do agree, professed Christianity, but did not act accordingly. He was a war mongerer and did so many crimes around the globe in the name of winning the Cold War.

We do control our destinies but in the same sense people are deciding, as individuals, in government, to carve the path we are already on. All the signs are telling now more than ever in history. The case can be made so many groups have did drastic things or made predictions regarding the Rapture but those small groups do not represent the mainstream of American Christianity which believes in a literal Rapture. Do not correlate us with them for we are not choosing to withdraw from society or prepare for the Big One. Also anyone predicting dates forgets the Bible clearly says no one knows the hour so if anyone appears claiming a date regardless where they are from it is most likely mainstream American Christianity will not follow that small group to their own self fulfilled doom through dreastic action or disillusionment when that date does not transpire.

Our case is just based on the global situation which is radically different than anytime before in known history and also on evaluating every scripture pertaining to the Rapture and Tribulation and seeing many of them can only be validated in this present era. Never before were they so applicable. The conditions are prime for a Rapture but we are still living for the here and now within this society and have no intention to withdraw or to give into fear of doom and gloom. If you or others want to make it out to be a scary thing then that is your view not ours. Sure there are some Christians who are all about doom and gloom but they do not define the majority.

This is your chance and for others to inform your views and become educated about what we are really about. Or you can choose or feign ignorance which will keep your view one of mistrust, suspicion, or casting aspersions towards us. I know for a fact many will choose the latter and any insight into our Christian culture is not going to change your hatred for us. Well for the few that it does that is well and for the rest we know we will be hated in what we believe are the last days, the Bible tells us so, so it is no surpise and we do not hate you in return. We live and let live and we try to better ourselves until the day we day. We do not give up on ourselves or this world which means you.

That too. I like Radio Head. They're not amongst my all-time fav's, but I like them. Incindentally, if I recall correct, their song (and song title) was based on Douglas Adams also, so even if it was, I would be (by surrogacy) basing my name of Hitchhiker's anyway All the best, mate.

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Matthew 24

The only person who "knows" the hour is God the Father. Men may guess, be convinced, etc. but the don't "know." They think. We can discern the seasons. Many Christians including the Apostles have been wrong about it. Even if someone makes a prediction, it's not going to change anything because only God knows for certain. It is certainly closer today than yesterday.

Ya, Yeti I guess for the ones who see the Rapture as allegory also see Noah as such. It makes no sense to take an actual event we take on faith as actually occurring and then compare it to something that is pure symbolism? The hour is symbolic? The one being taken and the other left is symbolic. The Son of Man is coming at an hour we do not expect is symbolic? Maybe it just means when we die? No, I cannot think so for a moment.

Matthew 24 shows some will guess at this event but that no one knows the hour but hey some think it is all symbolic...but if someone does think it is all symbolic it really does not matter for a belief in a literal Rapture does not lend itself to Salvation as set out by the Bible. That is the beauty of it. Do I believe? Yep!

Thank you for the question, my friend. As far as the second coming is concerned, I can only state that I am open to the possibility of it. As a matter of fact, I'd certainly welcome it. I wish He would come back....if its in my lifetime, even better. Now I look at those scriptures that many of you are quoting, and yes, you may be right. Perhaps Bible prophecies ARE being fullfilled as we speak. To me, the greatest evidence in that regard is the rebirth of the nation of Israel. After centuries of being in exile, and enduring countless persecutions, they are once again home. It is as if God literally brought them back, and prophecy was truly fullfilled there. That being said, if true, perhaps we are living in the end times. The move towards world governments, national ID's (mark of the beast), the two witnesses could be murdered and we could all see it as the scriptures say, right on your handy cell phone; these things do tend to point in that direction, I can't deny that at all.

So my official position, is, at this point, I am on the fence. I am not waiting for the trumpets of heaven to blow, as such, but by the same token, I am not ignoring what could be the fullfillment of prophecy.

See, on the other hand, as has been noted by me, and brave new world, I don't think Christ has ever left us. He IS here, He is always at work. My views on Christianity are more esoteric, and I tend to lean to things like the Gospel of Thomas (apocryphal though it may be) in regards to the Kingdom of Heaven.

And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2 Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find.

When they find,
they will be disturbed.
When they are disturbed,
they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
3 Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you,

'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,'
then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,'
then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known,
and you will understand that you are children of the living Father.
But if you do not know yourselves,
then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

I am inclined to think that it is not a physical return of Christ and the Kingdom that we are waiting for, but a spiritual one expressed in material terms. To me, this scripture about the reign on earth is what it will be like when our souls have returned to Source. We WILL reign with Jesus over the earth in SYMBOLIC terms, because we are, in our perfect sense Co-Creators with God. We are above the material, above the earth.....really, the rulers of it. The earth is merely a playground of evolution, designed in part to counter the effects of the fall, the spiritual seperation from God. We were always above the material plane, until we descended into it because of the birth of ego, the desire of self before God. We lost our inheritance. Once we find our way back, as spirit beings, we will again reign over all of creation, with Jesus, the perfect Adam. This was how it was intended in the first place. Following Christ as the PATTERN, we shouldn't neccesarily be looking for a literal return by Him, but rather, to crucify, so to speak, our ego on the Cross of time and space: i.e. the material plane; so that we may reunite with the Master, so that this reign can take place.
Yes, one day we will return to God, and yes, the earth as we know it here, in the material sense will be no more. But it is up to us to get there.

Esoteric, yes? So let me take a more, well, fundamentalist approach, for a moment. Let's examine the Book Of Revelation. Now some do look at it in terms of eschatology, but what if it wasn't? There are also a great number of Bible Scholars who believe that Revelation was actually representing the allegorical struggle of the early Christians against the bondage of the Roman empire, and its eventual triumph over same. So you could say the 'prophecy' of Revelation was already fullfilled.

We can continue the discussion if you like, Karlis. I'd be interested to know your opinions based on what I've said, and also what your views of eschatology are.

I lean more towards the esoteric interpretation. But my official position, is I'm on the fence. I love Jesus and I will follow His teachings to the best of my ability, and whatever God's plan is, I can only utter a resounding Amen!

I have been reading through this, and although it isnt anything new to me, it does really renew my dislike of this particular brand of prophecy. No good can come from it, and it is scary to see the mentality of the people that are in control of this country (Directly or indirectly) have such a view on their life and this world.

I happen to be part Najavo. A couple years ago I took my wife to the navajo nation to go visit some extended family and see the area. I had never been there before. I got a lot out of it in many ways, one of the things I noticed was that the culture that had developed there was very focused on the future, on the children, on the grandchildren, on their grandchildren...there was a lot of consideration given in even small decisions as to the impact of things many generations out. To them, that was normal, but to me it stood out, and I was touched by that way of thinking.

Now step back for a moment...go with me on this. Imagine you are alone in the world with no kids. You find out that you have a terminal illness with a very short persiod of time to live...How is that going to impact your thinking? are you going to worry about your credit rating? Are you going to worry about the fact that the house needs a paint job, or hold off on fatty foods that you had to avoid previously because of your high cholesterol? You are going to change how you interact with others... You are going to let things go, you priorities are going to change. Now imagine that you think that terminal illness applies to everyone.

If you know that you dont have long to live, you are going to do things that are short sighted, or even wreckless. You are going to do what you want when you want how you want without regard to your future; as you really dont have much of one left...

On some level, it feels like that has happened in this country. When you have millions of people who feel like they are in the end of days, things are handled differently. On some level, when you know you are nearing the end of your days and approaching the return of your saviour, you are going to change how you make decisions about the future.

It is hard to plan for the future, when you dont think you are going to have one, or that the people around you are going to have a future, or that the world is going to exist, or that the people around you are going to be busy roasting over a fire like a BBQ chicken. That kind of thinking has to effect the psyche in a very bad way, I cant see how it wont. People can deny that it effects their decisionmaking on a regular basis, but if they truly belive that, it simply cannot be avoided anymore than the decisionmaking procession of a person with a terminal illness. The problem isnt that we are talking about just one person who may be having their own personal crisis; we are talking about millions of people who believe the end of days thinking and believe that(just like every generation before) that they are in the end of days.

These people are running this country and have been for some time...

One person who has a terminal illness that reflects on their life may have a profound positive impact on their own life and come to terms with their illness, make good with those around them, try to provide for others as they leave the world. When millions of people think the entire world is going to cease to exist and that billions of people are going to be eternally punished for the way they lived; no good can come from that...

To see people looking forward to this in a gleeful manner is even more disturbing. It is unhealthy to say the least and anyone who looks forward to the death and eternal punishment of billions of people for their own gain (access to their saviour) is outright disturbed in my opinion...

My personal opinion of those who await for some mysterious second coming of Christ etc are just stupid in my view and such a belief reflects little spirituality.

People nowdays are jus set on somethin bad happenin all the time.
WTH!! There are people out there that would like to live too you know, and not
worry bout the world ending. And if our maker wants to end our days, Im sure it'll happen
on "his/her" own time... And who even says tomarrow is promised to us. It could end anytime
no given date. Mankind is the one who set the date... and mankind will prolly be the ones to
destroy a whole lot of everything sooner or later. As for the middle east, they jus don't kno how
to live with each other, still fightin over land and whose religion is better then the others.
The messed up weather is due to global warming...

A group in Russia was just evacuated from a cave where they were awaiting the end of the world. History is littered with groups expecting the second coming. We are not even certain of the first coming, so the second is a bit more suspicious.

Okay, this is the first time that I actually disagree with you on this thread. I don't think it's stupid to think we could possibly be living in the end times, because, really, in the end, its all a question of interpretation. While I may not agree with their views on a personal level, I'm also not saying my way is the right one. I think it is. But its my opinion. I mean, you never know, they could be right. Unlikely, but....possible. The funny thing is, how you actually LOOK at the prophecy....lets just say for the sake of arguement for a moment the doomsayers are correct; then:

Matthew 24: 36-39

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of No-e were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that No-e entered into the ark. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Okay, so that is true in every age. We are truly caught in the material plane; putting self first over matters of the spirit. Which is folly. So it leads to this:

Matthew 24:42-44

"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore, be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

.....Okay, now, how do you interpret that passage? Be ready. He does say to be ready. BUT ready in what sense, is the real key. You're right to a point brave, it does reflect little spirituality if you've got your eyes on the heavens all the time waiting for Jesus to appear, and turning on fox news for the latest fullfillment of 'prophecy'. I don't think that's what Jesus meant. I think He wanted us to LIVE like its the end times all the time, i.e. holding fast to His teachings and LIVING the gospel. Like the earlier post about how you would look at things differently if you were terminally ill. THAT is what He means! LIVE like He is going to come, and all this is going to pass away. All things material will eventually pass away, so in that sense we've always been in the end times.....because time, that which is material, will ultimately cease to be. You are a being whose true existence is outside of time and space. This is a VERY spiritual concept, if looked at correctly.

So to all of you who believe this is the end times, instead of looking for signs, instead of being an armchair theologian, get out and LIVE Christ like He IS coming back tomorrow, whether He does come back soon, or never at all.

Ignorant statement in my view.

My personal opinion of those who await for some mysterious second coming of Christ etc are just spiritual in my view and such a belief reflects little stupidity.

ooops.... Thats right...right.....

It is said that: „When the world is so evil and you are tortured so much that you stop believing in his coming, only then he will come.“ Please believe that the people who serve the Devil and the hellish world as such try to postpone the Second Coming of Jesus Christ as much as possible both by the hunt on the souls of the elected people (they are given another postponement for every elected soul that they catch) and by manipulation with all the informations to divert you from the truth and to make you believe rather in wrong explanations. I am afraid that Christ's Second Coming will be here only after a longer time. Not now. I am sorry.

it is very close to 3 and a half years as we speake if not that we are liveing in those last day of this world .......but there is hope and he is here for i see him quietly humming beyond the the lakes of bra'dore in the hills and for ever more and may god our father bless it be for you and all .

When someone offers an opinion on something they usually reveal more about themselves than what their opinion is about.

Great minds discuss ideas, Average minds discuss events, and Small minds discuss people.

then everyone here pretty much is revealing things about themselves. including you. for it is all opinion. not one fact in any of it.

especially in the light of -

James Kelhoffer, an assistant professor of theological studies at Saint Louis University:

"Many people who have interpreted the rich symbolism and mythology of [Revelation] have read into it to reflect on a world cataclysm within their lifetime. It greatly misunderstands ancient Jewish and Christian prophets who always talk about apocalypses within their own time, not several centuries hence.

or

Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common, Children no longer obey their parents. Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching.
Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

Naturally I reveal much about myself whenever I make a post. brave new world really has no right to call someone stupid though especially on a thread when some have supported a view and his statement can be implied as being directed towards them.

Thank you for that Assyrian quote I have been searching for it for a while now but let it fall out of my mind. I believe Hitler wrote about it in Mein Kampf and flipping through the pages to try and find it was a task when I tried.

Where is the end or beginning in eternity?

Ya! I much prefer ideas than events like 'the second coming'.

Hahahaha I love it! But apparently the way the bible puts it is literal and is gonna happen this lifetime!

Until it happens the Second Coming is an idea. Most who read though know exactly what it means. Ideas are concepts. Events are occurrences which naturally have occurred. People are people. I usually prefer the path of peace but something within me does not allow to sit back when one person attacks another regardless of who is attacking whom. That is a time when good people must stand up and say, no. You can defer the issue but if you are going to be calling people stupid, especially ones who post here, and ones who have not attempted to attack you, then I am calling you on it and telling you, you have no right, and justifying it in your mind still does not make it right. The matter is settled for me but I had to speak out so hope you do not take offense. Peace.

I am allowed to hold whatever religious view I wish. Whether you think it is wrong or not is your decision.


I disapprove of everything you say but will defend to the death for your right to say it. ---Attributed to Voiltaire

the world will end just as it has many times befor and will begin agin plain and simple just cuz some ppl made up a belife and wrote a novle doesnt mean its true. there is no evidence in roman executions to say jesus was ever crucified even more so the son of a god. to me the religon is contrdictory to itself. but the world will end just not at the hand a non existing god

Ya, what if the next world has no wolves? And no books? I guess we both would be lost...

haha like we would be here? im sorry but the world would be better with out us and things would be reborn maybe not like they where but it happend befor our world is no stranger to descruction.

There is neither, obviously. Time is a finite construct of the material plane of existence, as is space. Time and space have a beginning, but it is simply a by-product of God, if you will. Our souls exist outside of time, are eternal, as is God. So logically speaking, space and time as we know it, will eventually cease to be. All things material will. How that will take place, I have no idea. But we were not intended to be finite beings.

That is actually the mystical meaning of the Cross, as I think I've said elsewhere. The cross + represents time, space.....the linear 3 dimensional existence in the material plane. Christ ON the cross represents the surrendering of the will to God, the crucifixion of the ego and self, thereby TRANSCENDING time and space. By following Him as the Way, we too transcend time and space. The Cross was made of wood. It is perishable, and like time and space, passes away.

We will not always be stuck in this plane, continually reincarnating over and over again. We will reach a point where these two things need no longer exist in the sense we know now.

Everything must come to an end. The sun,moon,earth and so on. Nothing last forever.

He'll be sure to let us know when He arrives In the mean time carry on laughing, living and loving!

lolz Irish that is funny. Well alright here is a prank video done on a girl to make her believe the Rapture had taken place. Pretty funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-v0VHX2Ghc



While this is true for the transient world we are in it is not I believe for what is within us. That will live on after we have passed and after this world we see is no more even after it either rolls away when the sun winks out or is consumed in the flames of supernova.

very nice piece of advice ..

I agree with this I really do. It fits in with my belief. But again I want to reiterate. Christ/God is always with us hence how can there be a second coming? The second coming in my view is symbolic of an inner transformation from identifying with matter/though to spirit. It isnt about a particular time and place in which a hippy descends from the clouds and collects souls. I think such a view as this is very unspiritual and does away with the real message of Christ which is about surrendering the ego here and now (take up thy cross and follow me) and attaining spiritual liberation.

you have made a very good point in this post...this is why Jesus and Paul advised believers not to get caught up in pointless arguments (endless genealogies) etc....because it takes away from the message of salvation that is the real issue...it can be a major detractor and can actually cause some to fall away by the mishandling of zealous or nut case prophets who declare a particular date for the end (just for the day to come and go very uneventful, i might add)....this is hard for some people to reconcile again and again....Jesus tells us that it is our job to be ready to go anytime, rapture or not, to be prepared for the end of your life today...not to wait on an event that may not happen in your lifetime...be ready now...

randomhit10

This is the view of some who follow the full Word.

Nothing nonspiritual about taking the lessons from the Bible and knowing that as Christ was crucified to defeat sin we also can allow our sinful nature to die, and as Christ was resurrected we also can be resurrected through the Spirit, and as Christ ascended when we die or when the Rapture comes we will also ascend.



This commands us not to be gloom and doom if it happens it does we should be ready to ascend at anytime even if we drop dead the next minute or the Rapture happens in twenty.



This is a clear warning that there will be a deception. A deception of by the man of lawlessness who will oppose ever so called god. He will oppose them by saying he is God. We should remember when Jesus mentioned all this including false prophets.



It is the Spirit of Christ who is restraining the man of lawlessness being revealed.



When God removes His Spirit from earth to allow the Antichrist to come into full power then the Rapture will occur. This is because our spirit becomes one with God's Spirit and when He removes His Spirit ours that is one with His will be removed.





Those who refuse to love the truth will be under a strong delusion. What is the truth and the delusion?



Here we are told the truth is the gospel. We are then commanded to hold to traditions of what was taught by 'us' through the spoken word or letter. Who is 'us'? It is not me it is those who wrote the Word. We are commanded to follow the Word. Remember in this view just those who believe in the Word are commanded to follow it. Those who do not in this view are under a delusions. What is this delusion? In this view the delusion is false prophets and believing the one who claims He is God.



Again we are told of the good things God gives us. It begins with with a good message and ends with one. That is most important for us who might have an impulse to fear.

Now what is this delusion and who are the false prophets? The first false prophet was the serpent in Eden.



The first lie was that we can be like God. This is without even accepting God we can just do it on our own. This is gnosis. The belief we can be divine and have no need to follow God through the Word because supposedly divinity is already within us.



Some people believe this is about real snakes and real poison but no it is about the serpent again (false prophets) and the poison he offers (false doctrine). The biggest false doctrine is that one does not need God because everyone has the divinity within them already. This is what it means by the false prophets and the man of lawlessness claiming he is God.

What does it mean by lay their hands on the sick in Mark 16? The word here in the Greek is 'arrōstos'. It means 'without strength, weak, sick'. It is used six times only throughout the whole Bible. The first time is in Matthew 14:14 when people are in a desert and the apostles tell Jesus they need to go into the city to eat. This is when Jesus does the miracle of feeding them all with five loaves and two fish. But before all that he healed their 'sick'. The sick are those who need the Spirit. The desert is an empty wasteland when our spirit is trapped behind our willful souls and cannot connect to the Spirit of God. The food he offers them is a symbol of the food He gave at the Last Supper, that is breaking His own body so the Spirit could be released for all, the reason of the Crucifixion so the Spirit that was operating in Him, that was in Mary's womb and cried out, that was going to be sent to us as the Helper when He said He had to go and they did not understand, and it is also like the woman at the well when He said His living waters will insure she never thirsts again.

The second time it used is in Mark 6:5 it is hard to tell if it means actual sick people or people in need of the Spirit but eight verses down it is in the same verse where devils were casted out and then five verses after that we get to the example of serpents (false prophets) and poison (false doctrine) and healing the sick (those who have the wrong spirits, the spirit of deceit, the spirit of confusion even though they are under a delusion now and believe they are not being deceived and that they are not confused because in their minds all is crystal clear).

The last time 'arrōstos' is used is in 1 Corinthians 11:30 where it discusses the Last Supper with the bread and the cup, and He calls the cup 'the new covenant in His blood' and that new covenant is the one where we are promised the Spirit and part of it can be found in Acts 2:38.

In this view an overall theme develops about this word and we can see that we can handle serpents (listen to false prophets) and drink poison (hear false doctrine) and even heal the sick (with the truth and through the Spirit by His will and not ours for It chooses and not us how to work through us) and even after all that we would not be hurt (we would not believe the false doctrine when we hear it and the biggest and first one is the lie of the serpent saying we can be like God.)



The tree of good and evil is the poison and it is not the tree of life. We are commanded not to but if we do we will die but is this a real tree and real death? I think not it is the source of false doctrine (the poisonous fruit) and when Adam (which means mankind in Hebrew) and Eve (which means life in Hebrew) ate it they did not physically die but they were cut out of the garden and their direct contact with God was broken.

This is what happens when we make that connection and find ourselves in His eternal presence according to this view:



We will have the eternal water.



The New Jerusalem will be a spiritual city where we again are able to be with the tree of life that is the direct connection to God through the Spirit. The healing is of the Spirit for there will be no sick in heaven but many of us at least me needs spiritual healing. And in the mathematics of the Bible it begins almost with the tree of life and it ends with the tree of life. Genesis 2 and Revelation 22. The beginning and the end. We should also take notice that it begins with Adam (mankind) and Eve (life) in a state of nakedness aka innocence and ends in a state of nakedness for Revelation in the Greek is 'apokalypsis' and apokalypsis is the first word used in Revelation 1:1 when looking at the Greek text and this word means:



http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon...=G602&t=kjv

Now I have yet to find out what all the fruits of this tree are but there is a list of nine:



Finally in context of the Rapture this view can see what the last part of 1 Corinthians 13 is about:



The prophecies will pass away and end. That is when they are all said in done and they are all completed. Then the perfect comes that is His Spirit and ours connected and the partial will pass away that is our flesh. We see now in a mirror dimly because the connection between our spirit and His because of the flesh is not as great as it will be when the flesh is gone and then we will see face to face.



So in the end the Rapture is very spiritual. It is the ascension of the Holy Ghost.



I did not want to fully delve into Genesis since the point above could be made without it but if anyone wants to study look up 'naked' and see that in Genesis 2 they were and not ashamed and in Genesis 3 they were and ashamed. But it is a different word in each case. The first is used as in naked as they day you were born aka innocent and the other is used as in naked and broken.

guess what ? just because the bible says it doesn't make it true !