I would like to avoid the spiruatlity versus skepticsm argument. Solely for either history your own faith or passing interest what if any biblical artifacts would you want to find and why?


The Ark of the Covenant.


My personal belief is that it wasn't destroyed when the Babylonians captured Jerusleum and that it still exists. I do not believe that it's an ethiopia but rather Israel.

It does not matter what we believe, what matters is that (and if) somebody shows up with an fragment of it. It just as well colud be that there never was an arch and the whole thing falls into the realm of legend like the universal flood.

Sigh Like i said i didn't want to get itno a debate of well excuse the pun but biblical proportions.


I mean if the ark is entact and ....


My own personal belief is the ark is real anbd exists and would kick start armageddon. One doesn't need to be a believer to realize an artifcat important to Christianity Judiasim, and Muslim would cause more than just arguing as to who owns it.

The details of the construction and composition of the Ark plus all the instructions for its proper use, as well as its later history, certainly don't seem like folklore. Legends don't usually include blueprints and operators' manuals.

Besides, the Israelites surely carried their sacred tablets around in something. They probably didn't use shopping bags.

As for the Deluge it seems more and more apparent that it was the rapidly-rising sea-levels at the end of the most recent Ice Ages. At that time the Mediterranean overflowed into the valley of the Black Sea with the force and volume of FIVE THOUSAND NIAGARAS!

You could well be right but shipping the Ark to a warlike Jewish people in Africa would have been a splendid way of guaranteeing its safety from the Babylonians, Hittites and Philistines. The Kandakes ("Queens" - it's where we get the name "Candace") of Ethiopia even fought the Romans to a standstill.

Paper or plastic????

thank you Radio. The problem is Many archeolgists and religous peopel (including my own Pastor ) are conviced it was destroyed by the babylonians but i think of something that sacred was destroyed surely the Jewish people would of wrote it down.

Eden and the Garden of Eden.

I believe these were very real places where the sky was separated from the Earth or
where the expanse of the sky was placed between the waters.

Though, if I'm wrong about their location their importance might be severely diminished.

Cool Topic!
I would like to find the Holy Grail.
Just like in the Arthurian Legends, and such. It would be amazing!

Lost city of Atlantis, Noahs Ark, unless its already the one in the turkish mountains found already...

thank you this is my first post on here and my first orignal topic glad you enjoy

I agree that it's possible an ark of some kind did exist. I also agree with some scholars who argue it did not contain the Ten Commandments, which never made much sense in the first place. Why hide away the very rules set down by Yahweh that were meant to govern his chosen people? It's more logical to suppose that it contained priceless items of a ritual nature.

I am not big into religion and much more enjoy studying the history and development of ancient Judah and Israel, but that being said I'd also have to vote for the ark.

I do think that if the ark existed, it was destroyed by the Babylonians. We know from history that in 589-588 BCE the Babylonians, under Nebakanezer, laid siege to Jerusalem and ultimately destroyed the city, along with the temple. The treasures of the temple were plundered. Why would Nebakanezer's army spare the ark? The idea that it was smuggled away to Ethiopia is nonsensical to begin with.

Re: the Ark of the Covenant, Tudor Parfitt, one of these 'real' Indiana Joneses we hear so much about, reckons he's found it - or a bit of it - unlabelled in a Zimbabwean museum. His claims, so far as I've followed them (not having read the book, but I've heard him interviewed and read articles) are intriguing - inconclusive, at the end of the day, but maybe the case he's put together is as close as we'd ever get... certainly closer than I'd have expected anyone to get.

Personally, I'd like to see anything, anything, directly connected to Jesus. The closest things so far are what may be John the Baptist's Cave, and two fair contenders to be the remains of St Peter. Beyond this there's very little I'm aware of.

Also rather good would be any NT manuscripts, however fragmentary, which could help to confirm or reject current theories as to the date and authorship of the Gospels.

I'm of the opinion really that OT artifacts will be very difficult to find, since the places, names, dates and events described in those ancient books have arrived with us through so many cultural and mythological filters. So many of the tales either cannot have happened, or have been recorded in older versions with entirely different details in Canaanite, Babylonian, etc. mythohistoriography that to suddenly identify an artifact with, say, Abraham, might well be like suddenly claiming to have dug up Uncle Sam's hat in the White House garden.

The idea might well be wrong, but what is "nonsensical" about it? The Ark would have been SAFE, located in high mountains far away from Israel's enemies, and most importantly of all held secure in the hands of an observant JEWISH people.

Isn't there an Italian cathedral which is believed to contain the bones of St. Luke? That might be worth further investigation.

The latter is by no means impossible, since "Uncle Sam" was a very real historical character who today lies in a very real grave. He was Samuel "Uncle Sam" Wilson, quartermaster-general of the United States Army during the War of 1812.

Sam Wilson seems to have been an extraordinarily likable individual and the American troops began quipping that the "U. S." stenciled onto tents and knapsacks stood for "Uncle Sam." Hence the name.

Would an apple core count?

Ok Noah's ark.....

I wasn't aware of this, but there is a reasonable case to be made that his remains are in Padua, Italy. Thanks for the heads up, very interesting!

It's also worth pointing out, though, that Luke isn't directly connected to Jesus, in that he never met him, nor witnessed the events he recorded in his Gospel. Luke likely hung around with Paul (who also never met Jesus, but probably met Peter, who did). So it's a bit of a game of 'six degrees removed', but a connection nonetheless. I wonder if Luke ever met Kevin Bacon?

Coming clean, I had no idea about the origin of Uncle Sam until I was trying to think up a decent example to use in that post. But falling back on the Wikipedia article, I thought it seemed fairly appropriate - a humourous identification of the US initials on the rucksacks with "Uncle" Samuel Wilson, meatpacker extraordinaire, and a steady elaboration of the legend beginning to incorporate characteristics of other people such as Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln, culminating in a fictional 'superhero' comic book presentation full of tall tales and idealised patriotism.

I quite liked the idea that he was possibly based on one or more actual historical people, one of whom actually bore his name, but that most of the associations with him, particularly the Hat, would not be confirmable - yet, if in 5,000 years archaeologists search for the fellow, they may find just such a hat, perhaps in a special place such as the remains of the White House (which may or may not have been a centre of ritual importance), even dating to within a century of the first extant references to him in the mythological texts of the time (DC, 1973). But the grave - well, that's just the grave of a meat merchant, isn't it. What did he ever do? And more to the point, where's the hat?

Actually, many do.

As I recall, there are a fair number of divine devices floating around Near Eastern mythology with both. That's not to say that either actually work, but people love making up stories to go along with what's already recorded. I mean, look at what Tolkien did with Middle Earth. The existence of his made up language like Quenya are no reason to argue The Lord of the Rings really happened.

--Jaylemurph

And thank you for the link. I hadn't realized how strong the evidence actually is for the skeletal remains genuinely being Luke's.

By the way, although Luke never met Jesus, isn't he supposed to have known His Mother in her later years? I seem to remember a tradition to that effect from my Roman Catholic grade school education.

Yes, but Tolkien had a lot more linguistic tools and techniques to play around with than the recorders of Genesis did, including the existence of Genesis itself.

Hmmm, I think you're right that there's a tradition, but though I find references to Luke painting the first Madonna and Child portrait from life (quite unlikely to be true), I can't find much else in support. I'd certainly be inclined to assume it a legend, pending further information (I don't have access to my most of my books at the moment!) - not least since Luke includes quite an extended Infancy narrative, from which is derived most of the Christian belief in the Virgin Birth; I've never heard it claimed, even by believers in the VB, that this account is directly drawn from the only eyewitness to all events (Mary). It would be rather cool if it was, though!

So? Are you implying ancient Hebrews had less imagination? Legitimate technical skill isn't actually needed to tell a story, imagination is.

--Jaylemurph

It would be difficult to outdo the Germans. At the Aachen Cathedral they have what is reportedly fragments of Jesus' diapers, the cloth Jesus was wearing when crucified, the cloth of the beheading of John the Baptist and the dress Mary was wearing shortly before Jesus was born.

At the Cathedral of Cologne they boast the tombs of the three wise men.

Wow, where do you go from there?

Something that's real?

--Jaylemurph

The skeletal remains of Og King of Bashan, Noah's Ark, Urim and Thummim, Goliath's Sword, Ark of the Covenant.

Real?

About as real as when Helena, the wife of Constantine, went to the holy land and returned with fragments of Jesus' cross, the spear that pierced his side, etc.

There are no legitimate relics. There are no legitimate writings. There are no works of art. There are no legal documents. There are no writings from those who knew Jesus.

There is nothing.

But that was very effective....

Of course. To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it.

Are you certain?

One of the European cathedrals (I read this close to 50 years ago) is supposed to hold the table where the Last Supper was served!

Meh. There's a decent argument to be made that Constantine (and his wife) were never even Christian; his sons certainly weren't.


--Jaylemurph

Actually that is the Roman Catholic tradition with which I was raised - that Luke most likely heard the details of the Infancy directly from Mary's lips.

As far as Luke painting or sketching a portrait of Mary I've known enough modern physicians who are also excellent avocational artists that I wonder how much history there might be behind that behavior.

And would it have been at all that unusual for at least one of the Apostles or Disciples or early post-Ascension Christians to have desired a preserved record of the features of Christ's Mother? If so, might it have been Mary's friend Luke who was asked to to the work?

Did you mean St. Constantine? Not a Christian? OK!!???

He was not only not a Christian, but also his last will and testament was forged by Christians several centuries later. Even the Catholic church had no choice but to acknowledge that.

Not to mention that shortly before his death, Constantine erected a statue to his real god, Sol Envictus.

Sol INvictus.

--Jaylemurph

You say that like most saints were real. Hell, you say that like *Jesus* was real.

--Jaylemurph

I'm glad everyone seemingly Ignored my "let's leave religous beliefs out of this" Iwould like to point out you could find any artifact and scintists could do all sorts of tests prove it's legitmate and half of the skeptics woudl still say "ok you proved the existennce of (eden noah's ark ark of the covenant etc) But still the rest of the bible is nonsensical and i won't believe unless i put my fingers in Jesus arms with the nails were and put my hand in his side i will not believe"

a line that has been as old since the resurection itself. Saint Thomas at the very least has quite a large group of people who idenitfy with him. Though i'd doubt he'd be pleased.

A couple of points

1. Look first My pastor said something that rang true with me "jesus is the good shepard people who hear his voice follow however there are other sheep who follow their sheppard" and this is true i'mn not going to try and convert anyone but i'd be happy to discus relgion with anyone who wants drop me a pm and we'll discuss

2. I am well aware there are bunch of forgies etc but as i've said from my first post if you could find it the actual thing the realy ark of the covenant the real Ark of Noah etc which would you want to find and why?

For me My intial response was Ark of the Covenant but perhaps the orignal text of the gospels (in the writers actual handwriting) might be much more interesting and a more personal find for me as a christian. Though Ark of the Covnant would be interesting as well History Channel ran a special and some Doctor of something or other says he vist's the ethopian church every few years and the guardian keeps dieing every 2 years any verification or proof of his story. I'd be interested to know without actually having to fly to ethiopia. Perhaps I might have to eat my words and realize The ark is in Ethopia.

For "Evicted Sol"? Hmmm... did not know he was 'round there too....

I have a keyboard with some of the letters in Spanish. Causes frequent typos.

When I lived in Queens, there was a homeless guy who lived near the Ditmars Blvd named Sol. He was always complaining about getting thrown out of his apartment in 1977.

I had no idea he was a god. Makes me feel better about buying him sandwiches, though.

--Jaylemurph

Here is the best evidence I've ever seen for a real biblical artifact.

Jaylemurph is the Good Samaritan!

Harte

Now had you instead handed him a couple of loaves and fishes he would have supplied you with enough food for 15 years.

LMAO!!

No wonder he was homeless, it was probably all the wine he drank from the East River.

Harte

give me one credible proof jesus wasn't real.

as soon as you present one to the contrary...and: the twelve unconditionals don't count.

Just a little shot of Christian humor. <g>

As I've mentioned previously, I've never yet met a rabbi who doubted Jesus Christ's physical existence. The book THE PASSOVER PLOT is entirely premised on his historical existence. It makes no sense at all without it.