JUst had a muslim nurse vist me from the NHS, with regards to my episode of so called nicotine induced physchosis last yr where i felt the presence of numerous jinns etc etc..

he stated that they work with a molvi, and gave me an example of a patient of his who had a similar episode, and the molvi that works with them advised, it was due to this person not finishing a wazifah correctly.

i had a brief discussion with the guy about how physchiatry is all based on athiesm and belief in no god..

he agreed with me fully

but they sure do lots of monitoring and ask lots of questions...

he wants to introduce me to the molvi next week, due to my experiences.

also...he did tell me he had a similar epsode one time, after reading stuff about the dajaal...

also i touched upon the aspect of a spiritual emergence/ awakening

which he said was very common in people suffering with same symptoms

Noone has EVER been cured of mental illness. Ever.

i aint got a mental illness....sumthing stange happned to me last yr, where i felt sum presences...and had to be admitted to hospital, they said it was nicotine induced physcosis..

but i dont think it was...

Thats what it sounds like.


I thinking keeping religion and the paranormal out of your physcosis. It doesn't help.

So....uhhhh....why, exactly, do you believe that "psychiatry is all based on atheism and belief in no god"?????

Were you the guy who talked about opening your kundalinis(?) through this. If so I am glad to see that you have a physician you are comfortable discussing these things with

Looking at the whole person, of which spirituality is most definitely a part, is important but IMO psychiatry(as a field) is much better being distinct from any particular religious doctrine. Less chance of ungoing a nice restorative exorcism that way and more chance of recovery.

It is good you are seeing medical help for your experience and perhaps condition. 'Nicotine induced psychosis' sounds very unusual and maybe because I am not familiar with it. Care to tell us more about that? And after giving the medical field a sound try and it does not help I can only offer that perhaps opening your chakras, from what Belle has mentioned, might also be responsible for you seeing the jinn. I know when I used to actively meditate and experiment in psi and power that I also had some experiences with negative spiritual entities. It was God who helped me cleanse myself of them. In your case I hope the jinn no longer even bother you.

If you've been trying to awaken your Kundalini, I can totally understand why you are having bizarre experiences and sicknesses. If done improperly, the Serpent-Fire can literally kill you. Most people could never fully awaken their Kundalini unless they are physically and mentally strong enough to do so, but it is possible to awaken varying amounts of it. If sent through the wrong pathways it can cause all kinds of trouble, from inability to sleep or eat to physical paralysis to insanity or death.

The serpent-fire (Kundalini) is no joke. There's a good reason why yogis in India may spend their entire lives working to attain it and afterward to master its effects. It is not something meant to be played around with by random people who are just curious about it.

I am a strong believer in God.

I am a strong member of the American Psychological Association.

Psychiatry is the medical area of psychology. It deals primarily with medications that alter mental or behavioral states.

Psychology does not have a position on theism or atheism.


Rofl.

You do not understand what mental illness is. Mentall illness is a state that compromises a person's ability to live in normally or in harmony with society and with said person's safety.

If an individual alters from a self-destructive state or a state that conflicts with a person's ability to live in his local society to a preferred state they are as "cured" as they need to be. There are hundreds of thousands of people "cured" of mental illness every year.

Full breakdown of what happned to me and what i experienced can be found here...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...=111610&hl=

If modern psychiatrics cannot explain your experience then perhaps it was paranormal...until then however...

It is unusual. Apparently there have been very few suspected cases of nicotine-associated psychosis (I labour 'suspected' since there is a lot of room in those described cases for the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy). I have worked in mental health services - including drug and alcohol services - for some years now, and have never come across a single suspected case.

However, it does put me in mind of some of the reports of South American tribal usage of tobacco as a 'hallucinogen'. In those cases, the front-runner explanation seems to be a form of toxic psychosis, less related to the pharmacology of tobacco, and more to overdose of a poisonous substance (possibly including anoxia, particularly for those tribes using three-foot long cigars). Other possible interpretations would be an actual little-known pharmacological effect; tobacco being of ritual significance only, and the trance state being derived independently; use of tobacco to potentiate other hallucinogens such as ayahuasca; or perhaps a pharmacological 'priming' effect from other substances which alter the effects of tobacco on a semi-permanent basis.

It would be interesting to know how the OP's diagnosis was arrived at.

Off the top of my head it sounds like classic schizophrenia.
**IF** - that is it then stay on your medication, you do not want to risk a relapse.

-----------------------------------
Treatment

Antipsychotic medication shortens the duration of psychosis in Schizophrenia, and prevents recurrences (but psychotic relapses can still occur under stress). Usually it takes years before individuals can accept that they have Schizophrenia and need medication. When individuals stop their antipsychotic medication, it may take months (or even years) before they suffer a psychotic relapse. Most, however, relapse within weeks.

*** After each psychotic relapse there is increased intellectual impairment. ***

source

After reading what initially happened to you from that link, I would say there are several pretty simple disorders that could be responsible for your experiences. There are people on these boards that are much more knowledgable than I am in this area, but off the top off my head, here are some things in which your experiences could have been symptoms of:

Brief Psychotic Disorder
Schizophrenia
Dissociation
Temporal Lobe Epilepsy
Bipolar Disorder
Lyme Disease
Hypoglycemia

Of course, there would most likely be other symptoms that would help to narrow the field, and I don't know what your physician has suggested, but I would wait until all other explanations have been definitively ruled out before you even begin considering that it was something spiritual or paranormal.

Uh, especially this one:

i have read laot of stuff and researched, bi polar, physcosis, schizrophenia quite alot over the past year..

the reason for my curiosity, is...nuthing like this ever happened b4, all of a sudden i was making prayers, and then the next min i started tripping so to say , out of the blue..

one thing i clearly recall, is a pulse racing from the back of my neck into my skull....

and after reading people with kundalini experiences, many talk of the same things (the pulse at the back of the neck)

i know the medical term for what happned to me is physcosis, fair enuf

but why do many people who have physchotic episodes belive them to be sum form of spiitual awakening etc..

i know around the time i had the episode i was researching heavily into the dajaal(antichrist) and masonry and illuminati related stuff..

and i do belive it all clicked into place at the time i had the episoide...hard to explain exactley.. but sumthing registered in my mind

oh yeah the reason the said it MAY have been nicotine induced is the fact i was using nicorette inhalors that very week for the first time...and i did smoke at the same time also...

I agree. Focus on functioning in the world first and explore the supernatural later. BTW- psychopharmacology has nothing to do with believing in God or not. It's about diagnosing and correcting chemical imbalances in your brain (like the imbalance caused by the nicotine).

They are just trying to get a reason for things they can't explain. And since they can't be explained, what easier way than to give lots of stories for the symptoms?

I believe, that if the mental hospital allows the priests to visit, people would be far more willing to go to seek help at the mental institutions. But they are so narrow minded they won't. Thus harming people. If you think they are not harming people, think of this.

Most people who go see the priests to work an exoritrism go there first before going to the mental institutes. If the mental instuitutes allow themselves to work alongside the bomohs, people will go there faster, thus allowing the better effectitveness of curing, spiritual purposes or medcinenal purposes. The problem is, the doctors, are so narrow minded not to think of other possibilites.

The fact, medicinal healing is still in its infancy is always true. If both healers come together, it may create a better, more effective healing.

One of my family members have schizophrenia and he has had several relapses naturally from the chemicals becoming imbalanced in his head and he always has the sensation from the back of the neck to the front and shivering. Thats from the parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous pathways firing during a psychotic episode. Its not supernatural, its purely physiological.

Or a more confused and mixed up course of treatment ! Too many cooks can spoil the meal.

What would happen if each healer insists that only their method is correct? What if the psychiatrist and the priest disagree as to what is the cause of the illness? What if one says the patient needs an exorcism and the other wants to give antipsychotic meds ? Who will then decide which treatment regime to follow ? If you do both and the patient gets better how do you know which one helped ?

Its best to exhaust one venue before trialling the other, having both at the same time can potentially cause a lot of confusion and therefore harm.

I believe that if the policticians can figure out ways for so many things, like tax and the rest of it, they can find a way to make it happen.

You believe in politicians ???

The (mental) health system is in such a mess because of those politicians.

I completely sympathize with your questioning. I have had things happen to me, not in the same sense as you, but close enough to where I can understand the desire to find an explanation.

It is very common for people who have a psychotic break to associate it with their faith. The only problem with that, is that if these breaks really are spiritual in nature, why is it that one only associates it with their own particular faith? You don't hear about a Christian having a hallucination that he is really the resurrection of Muhammad, or that a tribal South American who follows their clans faith believes Jesus talked to him.

This to me makes it more obvious that there really is no 'true' spiritual experience in that sense, and that loss of touch with reality is a psychological occurence instead of a deity trying to reach a person individually. Seems like that would be a really cruel way to do it anyway. If this was truly a religious experience as opposed to a temporary miscommunication in the chemicals in your brain, then that means that every other person who had an experience like yours but linked it with a different faith was wrong, and you are the only one that is right. Statistically speaking, its way more likely that there is a physical or psychological reason for your experience.

Since you had actual physical symptoms (the pulse going from the back of your head) I researched a little harder and came up with a few things you may want to ask your doctor about. Some of the things you describe sound like they could be the result of a simple partial seizure, which I had already been researching anyway. Have you had an MRI or an EEG done to rule out any forms of epilepsy or other abnormalities in your brain?

Check out this link and see if you think it sounds possible: Simple Partial Seizure

Oh yes indeed. But there are people who are prosessed by demons. And do not say anything about religion. I would also like to add that spiritual entities can shapeshift, in the sense, tell lies.

Okay, well I am not going to tell you that you are wrong. But I still think it's important to rule out every other logical explanation before jumping to that conclusion. It would be dangerous not to.

Indeed. But this is also a logical explaination. Demonic prosession had happened for years. All over the place, over countries. It cannot be ruled as bogus because its not science supported. It would not be fair.

Good morning K. The spiritual experience you had is not all that unusual. It happens to millions of people all over the world every day--e.g. visions of Mary, Jesus, Muhammad et al. It seems that such experiences can be induced by any number of factors -- environmental, mental so forth and so on. Some people are just very receptive -- very open-minded -- to the spiritual side of things. In fact, experiments using hypnosis have produced such profound experiences such as stigmata! And in the lab, scientists have been able to produce incredible supernatural experiences by exciting parts of the brain -- traveling through a tunnel of light and seeing lost loved ones, numerous holy figures, alien abduction, paranoia etc..

That said, I have had to live with the profound effects of mental illness all of my life. My eldest brother suffers from serious mental disabilities -- including manic depression and bipolar. And I can tell you, that bipolar reaps absolute havoc on an individual--and family. He sees and hears voices all the time, suffers from serious paranoia, and has all sorts of visions. I also have a friend who lives in Alaska that experiences the spiritual on a radical basis. He was a Christian for many years, then became an atheist, then became a Christian again because he believed that God spoke to him, and then returned to atheism. Only after starting medication and counciling was he finally able to get some grasp on the situation. But it was certainly difficult. He still struggles, but at least now he is able to distinguish bipolar episodes from reality. I also have a college friend who is a devout Christian ... and claims to see angels and demons everywhere! And, no, she does not suffer from any mental illness! Nonetheless, she is so devout in her beliefs, that she is able to conjure such things in her mind.

Of course, I'm no psychiatrist, so I can only speak from personal experience and from what I have read. And having lived my life as both a devout Christian, and now an agnostic, such experiences have only become more clear to me. I simply believe they are a product of profound belief in a deity -- emotion. The brain is such a powerful instrument, that we are only just now starting to understand its incredible capabilities.

Most kindly,

Sean

Okay, Spork, you're advocating the use of non-science based treatments alongside evidence-based ones currently used such as those used in psychiatry and clinical psychology.

The specific one you've chosen is exorcism, since you plainly believe in the literal reality of demons, and demonic possession, and state that


But presumably we need a 'filter' in place in our psychiatric hospitals and treatment centres to prevent any old crackpot treatment getting through?

Or, in the (I hope) unlikely event that you yourself might find yourself subject to a severe, acute or chronic mental health problem, would you prefer to simply be subjected to whichever non-science based treatment the hospital you find yourself in prefers? Blood-letting, perhaps, or removal of your spleen? Immersion in ice-water for six hours a day? Flaming pitch applied to the head? Trepanation to release those pesky spirits? Being spun in a machine all day until you lose consciousness?

Perhaps we should simply pull out the big guns and go for frontal lobotomy...?

The point is, mental health treatment has come a long way since those days of superstition and non-science, and this is because professionals in the field thought, long and very hard, about how to choose between different treatments. All of the above had their supporters in their day, so it plainly wasn't enough to simply believe people, or go with the opinion of individuals according to their own superstitions or religious beliefs.

That's why clinical trials were introduced. Humane approaches that can be shown to work, are used. Approaches which do not work, are not used.

A treatment either works or it doesn't. Forget abstract questions of whether demons exist, or if they do how many could fit into an epileptic's head. Simply show that the techniques of exorcism can treat mental health problems, to the same stringent criteria that currently-used treatments have to. Then you might get people to listen.

It is not a logical explanation. Sorry, but there are absolutely zero proven documented cases of demonic possession being the reason for a psychotic break, therefore, logically speaking, it stands last place in the order of which causes should be investigated. It would be unfair to let someone assume that they are just possessed and send them to church for some kind of exorcism, which won't 'cure' them, but most likely cause them more grief because now not only do they believe they are possessed, they also believe they can't be helped. It is much more humane to try and find the logical cause of the break first, to try and resolve the issue before more damage is done.

the NHS and physciatry dept..themselves want me to see this muslim priest, who apparently works for them.

i think thats saying sumthing in itself...

Mental illness is serious. My mother had it. Its not paranormal and it needs to be treated.

What is the NHS? And if you are seeing a doctor who is directly related to a religion, then I think what it's saying in itself is OF COURSE they are going to include religion as a possible logical explanation.



Nucular: *standing ovation*

AMEN SDD!!!! This stuff about demonic possession belongs in the Middle Ages!

Bob the 'Exorcist' fake evangelist Expossed
WATCH THIS EVANGELIST AND U WILL WANNA JOIN THEIR CHRUCH FOR SURE.....NOT!!!!

On a daily basis and on prime-time television, televangelist, ordained minister and self-taught exorcist Bob Larson exorcises people that believe that they are possessed by demons. Larson appears on more than 100 radio stations and 2 television programs every week. Is he a real exorcist or is he just cashing in on the Devil?

This telecast of Inside Edition shown on NBC 5 on May 16th 2000 uncovers what Bob Larson really needs from his flock to fight with the Devil!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8KWEmTKwsxU

MK,

Sean

I also have seen the ravages of mental illness on both my mother and mother n laws both are dead now......All 3 were /are devout christians ......

Sean, its so hard to live with bi-polar and schizophrenia the thing is when one has this it affects the entire family...

Exactly. It pretty much destroyed my family and my childhood. These people that throw in the parnormal, exorcism, etc really piss me off. Mental illness can be treated, but not with religion or mumbo jumbo.

Bob Larson !

I would think hypnotism before possession !! people are gullable.

sorry to hear that Eric. And your right.

NHS = National health service in UK, im not seeing no doctor who is realted to anything, all i have seen so far is a shrink, who has now forwarded on my case to a muslim priest who works with them..

i agree eric it makes it worse ....fortunately the medical proffession doesn't see visions and hallucinations and demons and vocies and god sightings as miracles... I can identify with the hell it puts kids through ..my youngest sister ( 15 at the time) had to take care of my mom, whilst my step father denied anything was wrong for a year as she barrcaded herself in her bedroom spoke in tongues, heard voices and would come out to try and kill my sister as instructed by the voices.....My sister finally convinced my SF to take my mom to a hospital where she would remain for a year and return again a few more times . ....

Oh yes. But I also hope that they try. People will be more willing to go if they know that they have alternate treatment.

Amen Eric! Well said! Treat mental illness for what it is today ... not what it was in the Middle Ages! It just baffles my mind that people can actually believe -- in the 21st century no less -- that invisible evil entities can inhabit one's body and/or mind! Watching that Bob Larson video is just beyond disturbing! All reason is tossed out the window, and they let this man control their emotions -- they simply play the game. And then after the numerous exorcisms, Mr. Larson starts selling his wares -- including how to exorcise yourself and/or others! How dangerous is that?! And, of course, he's walking away with a pocket full of sucker-money! Never ceases to amaze me how gullible people can actually be.

Most kindly,

Sean

That's what I don't understand. Why are they sending you to a muslim priest? Medicine and religion should be separate, especially in the UK. You don't need a priest for a psychological problem, you need a well trained psychologist or psychiatrist.

I'll try and put this as carefully as I can, but there is a likely rationale behind that (at least, I hope there is).

In cases where someone is having psychological difficulties, and where there is religious content or influence upon those difficulties, it may very well make sense to help someone talk things through with someone who a) they might trust more than a mental health professional who perhaps they see as biased or partisan in some way, and b) they may see, probably rightly, as more of an authority on the subject than said professional, as part of a well-formulated and evidence-based approach.

There's a lot to be said for a good chat with a religious authority, whether imam, priest or druid, who knows his stuff and has his or her head screwed on. Whilst it'd be a fairly odd move to send them to someone who is likely to proselytise or feed into psychological difficulties (and we all know there are such people around), many members of the clergy are fully qualified to offer a sympathetic ear and a sensible perspective on such problems, and such conversations have the potential to do far more to help someone think through their preoccupations and possibly problematic beliefs than all the cognitive therapy and clozapine you can throw at someone.

That's what I hope is going on here, and I very much hope that kais_1 finds that approach helpful. It certainly sounds as though he sees it as a positive opportunity. If this is what's happening, he's lucky to have mental health professionals like this working with him, imo.

Edited to add and then remove an afterthought.

I agree.

Hi Kais. I read your linked thread in its entirety, along with this thread, and see that you indicated you had a neurological workup before. That was a smart move on your part. IMO based solely on your posting, and perhaps reading between the lines some...I think it's possible that proper neurological protocol was not followed during your evaluation. This is quite common, and the percentages of misdiagnosis' are astounding high in the psychological/medical field.

As an example the article below. When looking for seizure activity, there are what are called standard radiologist...they are not experts in a particular field, kind of like a GP, if you well. You can go to the best neurologist specialist and possibly have standard protocols practiced in the radiology department.

Here is the article:

MRIs Done at Epilepsy Centers More Accurate Than Standard MRI
Laurie Barclay, MD
Information from Industry

Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) performed and reported by epilepsy specialty centers are significantly more accurate than standard MRIs, according to a report in the December issue of the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry. The editorialist suggests that techniques used by specialty centers should be standardized throughout the community.

"Dedicated MRI protocols as performed at epilepsy surgery centers can detect epileptogenic abnormalities with great sensitivity and specificity. However, many patients with epilepsy are investigated with standard MRI sequences by [radiologists] outside epilepsy centers ('non-experts')."

The investigators compared results of standard MRI reported by "non-expert" radiologists, standard MRI evaluated by epilepsy "expert" radiologists, and epilepsy-specific MRI read by "expert" radiologists in 123 consecutive patients undergoing epilepsy surgery evaluation between 1996 and 1999. The gold standard for validation was postoperative histological examination. Sensitivity in detecting focal lesions was 39% for "non-expert" reports of standard MRI, 50% for "expert" reports of standard MRI, and 91% for epilepsy-specific MRI, which showed focal lesions in 85% of patients who had no focal lesions on standard MRI.

Although the technical quality of standard MRI improved during the study period, accuracy of "non-expert" reporting did not. Standard MRI interpreted by "non-experts" correctly predicted neuropathological diagnoses in only 22% of cases compared with 89% of dedicated MRI reports, and it missed the diagnosis of hippocampal sclerosis in 86% and of focal epileptogenic lesions in 57%.

In an accompanying editorial, J.S. Duncan, from the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery in Queen Square, London, U.K., stresses the need to improve the diagnostic accuracy of MRIs obtained at smaller units. Although improved scanning hardware is helpful, he proposes that MRI acquisition protocols for epilepsy would improve yield even more. Some protocols may be used by radiographers without extensive specialist training, while others, such as those formulated by the International League Against Epilepsy, include functional imaging.

"There is a clear need for an increased number of trained neuroradiologists to direct image acquisition and to report on MRI scans," he writes. "In the meantime, current resources could be used more efficiently by the increased use of standardized acquisition protocols and effective telereporting in the managed clinical networks of community hospitals and regional specialist centers."
J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry. 2002;73: 612-613, 643-647
Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD

Printed with permission: Source

-------------------------

I just want to note that someone can have a very strong seizure only once in their lifetime and it change their brain and personality forever. They may never find evidence of seizure activity in an EEG, but they can attempt to locate possible sclerosis (scaring) from that one time seizure by other protocols.

The thing is....often times people think of seizures as a negative experience or condition...and certainly they can be, because they can cause brain damage...but also there is an assumption that all seizure activity shows outside evidence while it's happening. This is not the case with partial seizures, which oftentimes many who have them, never remember (complex) or they may have one they do remember (simple) and it changes the personality and brain, most often permanently. I had this experience myself, and I thought it was a Kundalini/spiritual experience. I later learned there is a neurological term with nearly identical symptoms called "Kindling". I was also diagnosed with Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, after years of misdiagnosis, which again is common.

What I had experienced is termed Interhemispheric Intrusion<.

It was a strong seizure brought on by a combination of factors, but can also be brought on by just having a very high fever, just once. Even though it was confirmed that I had a seizure and scaring, the experiences, nonetheless, had a profoundly positive effect on my life as a whole. It was the most profound experience of my life in fact, and it changed me into a better person. I started viewing the world with different eyes, a different perspective. With a combinations of factors leading up to the sudden experience, abnormal electrical activity fired in an area of my brain that is often considered to be rather submissive in nature...the right hemisphere involving the right Hippocampus (specialized for positive expectations and cognitive style)...giving way to lots of feel good neurochemicals, as well as the left Amygdala (positive experiences/emotions). See above link for better explanation. I just wasn't aware of my condition at the time because, I had been misdiagnosed or undiagnosed all together, 7 times by doctors.

Here is an MRI of scaring. As you can see...even an expert eye could miss this:



Kais, I feel I understand your desire to want this experience to have more "spiritual" meaning, and I completely get where you are coming from. IMO...there's nothing wrong with believing the experience was from something other than biological/neurological/environmental phenomena for you, but it is always best, imo, to make sure that you've left no stone unturned in understanding what you have experienced, especially if there is a potential for further brain damage.

Please forgive me if I've put you on the spot and or for perhaps being presumptuous, but it would appear to me, based on everything I've gleaned from your posts that perhaps you are reaching out for confirmation that this was indeed a 'spiritual' experience, and for you it certainly was, as it was for me as well. I would think that to give you peace of mind, and get that confirmation you are seeking, you might again attempt another process of elimination by seeking 'expert' medical advise, such as was suggested in the article above, and by many others here. I've had to learn the hard way to do my homework first before I see a doctor. I also interview the doctors to see if we are going to jive together, and that he/she has a genuine interest in my well-being, if you know what I mean. That's very important, and it's also important to let them know that "you" are hiring "them"...and you have the right to ask questions as to the neurological protocols they practice.

That's just my personal take on it, based on personal and professional experience...I hope this helps, and good luck on your journey in life.


Edited to add links.