...I'm not too sure if I like Him.

I know bad things happen. I know God gave us free will. (Well, 'knowing' meaning my belief ;P), and I know (believe) that God is just allowing what will happen to happen, without intervening. ...Supposedly. Unless that master plan and all of that...

But I was watching Medical Incredible not too long ago, and they had this sweetest girl on there named Sarah, suffering from FOP http://www.ifopa.org/symptoms.html. And... it just broke my heart to see her. It just instantly made me think, "What has this person possibly done, to be struck with this kind of disease?" She's wheelchair bound, can't move anything except some of her hands and her face, and just basically paralyzed, and becoming even more paralyzed because of this disease until it eventually engulfs her completely. And yet she's incredibly brave, and hopeful, and making all these plans in her life.

...I just find it incredible. I'm not even in that situation, and just listening to her story has made me not doubt God, but to... be bitter against Him. I couldn't even imagine having all this power to cure people, and then not use it. To just watch as these sweet, innocent people suffer and go through what no one should ever have to go through. It's so heart-wrenching. And I want to ask, "Why does God allow this?", which, of course, has been asked a billion times already before, and I can only think of a few solutions.

1. God doesn't allow it, or doesn't like it, it's just the way life is. Some people have to suffer, to show the rest of the world the good and the bad in life, and to appreciate what you do have. If no one suffered, then no one would appreciate what they do have in life. They would just go through it taking advantage of it, which, to be honest, many people do anyway. (I just hope that the reward those people who suffer get at the end of the road are worth it. ;P Especially since they still have faith and hope and view the world in a positive light, which is just so amazing and makes me cry even more. XP)

2. Like some others have posted, it's predestined, and some people will suffer, some people will have life served to them on a silver platter. If God has chosen the path of people, then he lays it out, and it plays out according to God's will. Perhaps in relation to number one, to show people what can happen in life, so to not take it for granted. But this means that God does allow it.

3. To what some have implied, God doesn't care. What are the lives of us people (billions) to God's eyes? Or should I say, what does it matter if people on Earth suffer, if it is not an everlasting life anyway? And there are the theories that God has already chosen His people, and that others are just disregarded, or cast aside. So no matter what kind of life you lead, or how much you devote yourself to God, if He has not chosen you, then all your efforts are in vain. ...Which, I would definitely hate this reasoning. It seems kind of cruel and unlike an unconditional loving God to do.

4. It is Satan's work, to test the hearts of certain people. Perhaps in league with God, or not. In which, I can honestly say I am weaker than the people going through all those hardships. They can retain their faith, and perhaps at times doubt God in his intentions, but they still approach life with their head held high, and go through it modestly and humbly, as if they couldn't ask for anything more. Just hopeful. ...And I feel more for these people than wanting to be on God's side, if it's the third reason I mentioned.

I'm sure there are more, but these are what I can come up with at the moment. I know all of you lively bunch out there can contribute more ;P, or perhaps turn me away from this thinking.


One other thing that could be it, in my way of thinking, or wanting to believe, is that since I would like to believe in God giving us many chances to right our wrongs, and to earn our place in Heaven, perhaps the people going through those hardships are in their last stages of testing, or enlightenment. If they can pass this lifetime with all that suffering and pain thrown their way, and keep a good heart and open mind, and remaining humble, then they have earned their right to Heaven, next to Him.


Anyways, sorry this post was so long. XP For anyone who bothered to read it all ;P, thank you.

I will answer from my own point of view, as a metaphysician. Yes, I am a "new-ager". God did create the universe. It is not a haphazard chotic mess. God does not, however, rule over it as an absolute dictator. Certain events, but not all, are under direct control. There is destiny, but there is alwo free will. Nothing, whatsoever, can violate God's will. I like to postulate several types of events:

!. those predestined by God's will.
2. events caused by karma. these will happen, as long as they don't violate type 1.
3. events caused by free will. these include the "law of attraction". can not interfere with 1 or 2.
4. random events. I do not suscribe to the new testament "sparrow falling" theory. these include genetic diseases, earthquakes, tsunamis, and so on. It may seem cruel, but things sometimes "just happen". The universe was set in motion billions of years ago, and god himself does not usually violate his own natural laws. Maybe a storm or earthquake is directly caused by God sometimes, maybe not, but we are not to know. see types 1 and 2.
5. prayer works, but not always. the law of attraction works, but has limitations. sometimes god listens.

Maybe you're taking your first step towards realizing that the fairy tales we're told about god when we're young have no basis in reality.

When I brought a somewhat similar story of father in a thread about prayer people somebody said something like that through suffering we gain strength and that seeing people overcoming suffering causes inspiration to them.

Of course the default answer is that God works in mysterious ways.

Probably if there is a God he just doesn't care. He isn't good or bad - he just is. He isn't loving or hating or kind or wicked. That is us. There are no lessons from him - you figure out from what happened today a better way to act tomorrow.

People try to anthropomorphise his behaviour and explain it away "he does it because we need to learn, because we deserve it, so we will be grateful" And when it all seems so obviously bizarre - out comes the mysterious ways. You'll never be able to reconcile what you see in the world with the supposedly 'loving' God of the Bible. You don't need his approval or guidance to live a happy and good existence.

Like all those stories when the hero has it inside them already. They look outside, but it was there all along.

Anthropomorphizing God is a mistake both believers and non-believers (not all but some of both) make when thinking about the concept of God. His ways are not our ways. But ah even the Bible gives Him human features. Some give him additional ones like being an old man and having white hair etc...then there is all the human emotions we prescribe Him.

I agree though Belle it does make Him bizarre. Unfortunately I need God to live a happy and good existence. I am such a wretch without Him.

Hi whimsicalreverie,

I have been through some traumatic experiences in my life, and I can certainly understand your point of view. About 10 years ago now, I saw three people die - one was a girl I was just getting to know, but I sensed she had a beautiful spirit about her. She was 14 at the time. The other one was one of the most selfless people I have ever known. he was 26. The third was 16, and I did not know him at all. All three died in the single tragedy. Over the past 10 years, I can't say that any part of that day has left my memory. The pain has largely passed (though sometimes something happens to bring it back as if it happened just yesterday). I can't even imagine how the families of those people who died are going through. But on a pesonal level, I would like to say right now that if it was not for that tragedy, I would not be the person I am today. As tragic and painful as it was (and sometimes still is), it was a key event in my life.

Bad things happened that day. 3 people died, both had barely begun life, and one in particular was always willing to put others before himself in any situation. Neither "deserved" to die. But they did.

At the time of this event, I did not believe in God (at least, not in the conventional sense). I believe that today I am a better person than I was 10 years ago. Death, I have observed, has a tendency to do that for people. I do not claim to sit in your position and see how this person with this disease has affected you. I can only desribe my own experiences. For me, that led to a deeper study of who God was. For others, I guess that might push them away from God. Tragedy can have profound effects on who we are as people, even if we were not part of the experience personally.

For me, despite the pain that I saw and went through, it brought me closer to God. I do not know what the future holds in store for you, whimsicalreverie, but whatever happens, I can assure you that if this event has truly touched your heart, it will change you in some way (whether that be towards or away from your current beliefs, only time will tell).

All the best. I hope this makese sense. Sorry for the long message

Well if God works through quantum mechanics then it is quite plausible. Hahaha

Western ideas about the nature of god and suffering are very different to Buddhist views but it basically I think it boils down to understanding who it is you think is suffering by which I mean if you think that there is a person there suffering then you are mistaken.

This can also be applied to viewing yourself not as a mere ego or body that suffers but infinite absolute Brahman which is infinite, eternal bliss.

Much of what I read here talks about the need for a god and perhaps, in itself, that explains his existence.

it's all about the experience. and every life affects another - think dominoes.

if we are spiritual beings having a human experience - the experience that is harder to go through just may be a bigger one for us spiritually. Maybe it takes a stronger soul to go through it.

Evil ? If God created everything , knows everything and if you believe all happens for a reason , a purpose - then all goes according to Gods will. all of it.

better to just leave it as life on lifes terms. if it were anything less it wouldn't be life. Animals kill in nature, die in nature . are diseased in nature. It's life.

I like this post. ...Of course I had to look up 'anthropomorphise' ;P, but I understood everything else with clarity.

I do agree that we shouldn't put blame or point the finger at God for the wrongs that we see in this life, and it could be that everything just is, maybe the cause and effect kind of thing, or what goes up, must come down, what goes around comes around, etc., etc., and perhaps God doesn't even have anything to do with the majority of it. So the best we can do is just live life the best we can, treat others with kindness and respect, and to help them when we can. ...Going around and being upset at all the wrong things in life isn't helping anything (this is me XP, hence the post I made to start this thread XP), so all I can do is try and help out when I can. ...It still makes me upset though that some people have to go through those things. XP But who knows? Maybe the next life I live, or even in this life, I will be the one in one of those situations. And maybe it will humble me more, to where I won't feel this way towards God, and instead come to a deeper understanding about all of it somehow.



See, I think I'm a hypocrite, because sometimes, I will thank Him and be truly grateful to Him for something or sometimes nothing at all, just wanting to express my gratitude for being alive and having what I do have, or really pray to Him to help me in my time of need, and then other times I'm like this. Where I just doubt Him and feel like turning away from Him, and so on and so forth. And the truth is, I really do want to accept Him in my life. But just so many things kind of push me away from Him, and then crawling back to Him, and then away again, and it's just an endless cycle. ...Maybe I'm schizophrenic and don't know it?



Thank you very much Paranoid Android. And I'm really sorry for all the loss you went through. *hugs* I'm glad that it put you closer to God though. ...I can't say that death that I've seen has put me in that position yet, but perhaps that was due to the experience I've had while going through it. But I do understand what you mean. I know death is inevitable, and it's going to happen to everyone, but when it suddenly hits, without any explanation, or any forewarning, then it can be a life-altering event for many people. And even if it is to be expected, there are so many emotions and hardships to go through, and it's just extremely sad when people stray from their beliefs because of it. I've seen it happen to a couple of friends of mine. And it really is heartbreaking. Just the stories that they'd tell me, and how much they believed that God would cure their Mom, Dad, puppy, I mean, they really believed it, and then to just... get nothing in return... I don't know. And I've went through the same thing, and honestly can't say that it's helped in my faith. ;P But I haven't given up yet, and I hope no one else does either. I think this is just something that people have to go through to test themselves and to make them stronger, or to really give them that nudge to determine where their faith really lies.

Anyways, thanks again for your reply. I believe it has really put some things into perspective for me.



I think this might be it. I have a long way to go if this is the case. I just really admire the people that can go through life and really see everything as beautiful, and remain a positive outlook on life even if they have to go through such tough times. I just find it amazing. And it just goes to show that I think a lot of people (definitely myself included) have a lot to learn and live through. And be grateful for what they do have. I just wish other people who were more deserving got a lot more than what they have. ...But I wonder if they did have all of it, would they still be as kind and humble as they are, or would they be like the other people who are just more focused on their own needs and just shrug God aside and just wish for more and more? :\


Anyways, thank you everyone who replied. I really appreciate it.

I don't really believe in god. I used to. But lately it seems like I have less and less reason to believe. What belief I had left was given over to bitter resentment for reasons similar to those you provided. And then I dreamed I met god.

In my dream he interacted with us as a normal flesh and blood person, but he was definitely god. He took me back in time so I could eat lunch with him beside a sleeping ankylosaur beneath a giant gingko tree. In the context of the dream, I was sure this was god and not someone pretending to be.

Anyway, what surprized me is that we got along so very well. We were cracking jokes with each other and having fun like two friends. At one point there were a bunch of us gathered and we were going to watch a dvd with god, but we decided to just have a group discussion instead. This went on for a long time, and I wish I could remember more of it. I remember just a couple things, but he must have had some profound things to say, because when I sensed the dream was drawing to an end, I took god aside and explained that I had been thinking and saying very bad things about him, and I was sorry. He was totally cool with that. I wish I could remember what he said to bring this about.

I'm sure it was just a goofy dream, but in a very personal way for me, it brought home a couple of points. If god exists, we really don't understand him or his motivations very well. We can't because of what we are. If the god in my dream let something bad happen, he wouldn't have meant anything personal by it, and he would have had a very good reason for it. He also seemed like the kind of guy who would make it up to you later.

I don't know if this has any bearing on reality, but it did make me feel better.

i know exactly where you are comming from with this. it doesnt seem to add up.

http://www.angelfire.com/ok/SilverBirch/Tcon.html

this link answered alot of questions for me. its the channeling of a very inquisitive guide (guardian angel).

my answer to it is we are here to learn. we all chose our lives even though we dont remember. we knew what we were in for. alot of it has to do with karma, you need to experience both sides of the situation to come to a balanced decision.

in truth we are all little sections of god seperated into individual bodies. god is us. god put himself in these situstions to learn from them and better himself.

Kalsang Nima, a Bon Buddhist Monk from Nepal said, "The more you need to explain God, the less he exists."

There is something extremely arrogant about the comments, "What Jesus meant to say was . . ." or "The true nature of God is . . . " We have no idea of either and those who pretend through their exegesis only profane whatever he might be.

I agree with this. That's why I'm thinking, "What is the point of me thinking about this? :\ It's not helping any. Instead I could be trying to help people, instead of asking why God allows this to happen." ...That's why I wish I was a genius XP, because I really wish I could find the cure for cancer, AIDs, or other illnesses or disabilities that people have. I feel so helpless. I do donate, but that never seems to be enough. And I want to do volunteer work, especially at a hospital, but... I'd probably end up making people feel worse, because I'd be crying too much. XP ...Anyways, but I do agree with your statements. It's easy to put the blame on God, since he essentially created everything, including suffering, but sitting around and thinking about it and getting bitter at God isn't helping anything. ...If we want a better world, then we're going to have to be the ones to pitch in and make it that way. We can't expect God (or a fairy godmother or something ) to wave a magic wand and make it happen. But I do think it's amazing when I see a person standing up on their own two feet and helping others out. Sometimes I think certain people can be angels in disguise. ;P Or be an angel and not even know it.

Anyways, thank you for your post. I enjoyed reading it, and I appreciate what you had to say.



I think about this a lot too. Perhaps we will all go through the same trials, just with different intensities for who can handle what. And it's in ourselves to learn our lessons, and move up. If in one lifetime we end up not doing as well, we have to move back down, or relive a similar life, or something to that effect. I would really like to believe that we are here to just learn from one another and ourselves and grow spiritually and mentally. My friend was often fond of telling me that the tougher one's life is, the more that Satan is trying to lure you away from God, because he's afraid that you're getting close to entering His Kingdom. It was just an interesting theory, I thought.


Well, thanks again to everyone who replied. A lot of it here has really given me some food for thought.

There are plenty of things you can do. Just talk to people who are hurting or are diseased. If they're not crying, you don't need to cry. Most of them have comfort in God. Just put a smile on their face, be there for them. That's all you can do, and it means a lot to them when you do.

I dont usually get all metaphysical.( In fact i dont believe in god. I know he exists from physical experience.) However, i would ask you to look at two things quite obvious in your post, which speak to the nature of god.

First, your own compassion and empathy for the child. If we were created in gods image, and god is rea,l then for you this should say at least something about god. Ask yourself why you are this way. First what gives you the inbuilt capacity to love and empathise, and second what gives you the reasons to chose to feel the way you do.

Second, look at the childs courage under extreme adversity. What does this say both about her individual nature and one of the common characteristics of society.
As many people have pointed out. god is all, and thus encompasses both good and evil. However, he possesses, and has given to us, both the intellectual ability to distinguish right and wrong, and the capacity to choose one from the other.

Biblicaly the conditions such as this child has, never existed before the fall. They are a physical consequence of humanity's choice not to follow gods ways but to experiment with satan's, or our own way. This has brought great good, and the knowledge of good (but we were already going to inherit that aspect anyway). It also brought great evil and a knowledge of much evil. If we had waited until we were sprituallly mature and ready for this knowledge it could not have corrupted us, but by taking up the knowledge inherent in satans offer we exposed ourselves to dangers we were not ready to handle.

Physical sin and its effects on people is a corrollary of this