I've only ever seen snippets of it before.

watching this I see little difference between radical Islam and itself ! just plain disturbing ! no different than the teaching of little muslim children into extreamism. I would think if this were a country run by such freaks we'd be seeing people killed just like in Iran for things they don't agree with.

I rented it once and watched all of it, including deleted scenes. I was very disturbing. I'm not disturbed easily, either. That's how seriously wrong these people are. It made me sick to my stomach.
Not to sound crazy or anything, but that little boy Levi(?) needs to "go away" (if you know what I mean) now, before he gets too big and its too late.

I see no difference, LT, and find it alarming, myself. It fits my definition of "evil", in fact.

NS

Yeah, Jesus Camp is crazy good fun. I've seen it.

There was another on the documentary channel called Hell House that I want to catch again. It was about some church staging a hell performance exhibit where people can walk around and see what hell is like for different people or the different scenarios that would get them there. The kicker was the church members that staged this stuff were really, REALLY getting into it--like they were just thrilled by how realistic they could make a violent shooting and people burning in hell appear. It was disturbing. Lots and lots of blood. I'd rather they put their energy into a "Heaven House," or something.

I watched it and I couldn't help but wonder:

1. "Where are these kids' parents?"
2. "Have these people actually read the Bible?"

good doc.
very disturbing, made me feel sorry for those kids, its was baisically mental abuse, really really horrific wot ther doing to those kids minds.
ther all gona have to spend sum serious time and money on therapy wen they get older.
makes me thankful my parents didnt push any sort of beliefs onto me and allowed me to make up my own mind.
the adults in jesus camp were really bad people, if thers such a thing as evil i'd say they were a pretty good example of it.
extremism of any sort make sme feel sik.

That woman that runs the camp is pure evil. She should be thrown in jail for child abuse as far as I am concerned.

I've heard that she shut her camp down indefinitely. Apparently she was afraid of vandalism or something along those lines, so she shut down the camp while she looked for a new one. Fortunately she hasn't found a suitable location.

I hated that movie, by the way. I didn't make it through the entire thing. I couldn't. The way the woman was brainwashing the children was way too much for me, so I got up and left.

I watched the whole thing, like a car accident I could not look away. I did like what the radio host had to say and he is a christian.

It is pretty clear that the lady that runs the camp is not quite right in the head. Same goes for any parent that would knowingly expose their kids to that kind of stoff, but I am assuming that the parents were guessing it was just a run of the mill church camp... I hope so anyway. I can only hope that the right people see it and close it down, but sadly there are so many people that are over the top christians and willing to damage their kids that she will likely stay in business...

I had seen it before, but my wife had not, so I watched it with her. She is pretty sheltered that way and has no idea what kind of crazy people are out there when it comes to the christian church. Early on she was troubled by a few things the kids said, but realized they were simply parroting their parents...when it got to the scene where to dipstick pulled out the fetus' to talk about abortion with 5 year olds in the room, she just about lost it...rightfully so. Only a sick mind would possibly throw something so troubling as abortion at a child who cannot possibly understand why or how it happens. Most of these kids arent even old enough for sex education, and they certainly arent getting that discussion, so a rant on abortion is just traumatic, and confusing, and borderline abuse, and these numbskulls willingly send their kids to this camp. These kids are going to end up in therapy trying to figure out this one.

I do like that the lady got caught in a bold face lie about her political intentions, shortly after the cardboard cutout of Bush was on stage and being prayed to in tongue...

The very end was the most telling when she was looking at the footage and talking about "liberals" reaction to her camp and her kids dedication to jesus. It was so incredibly clear that she had lost her grip on reality, that she just had no idea how crazy she had become or the damage she was doing to those kids. Criminal in my opinion, and hopefully someone sees it in a position to do something.

If you thought that was brainwashing, take a trip to the creation museum in Kentucky. It took every ounce of being not to cry out at the lies and falsehoods targeting children in that place. I do agree though with you on Jesus Camp. The first time I watched it, it was as someone said above, like watching a car wreck. I just couldn't look away. The second time I watched the real horror of what I was seeing set in.

The things they say "Don't listen to science, science can't tell you anything" -The mom, "Sometimes I dance for the flesh" -The little girl, "Harry potter is a warlock and warlocks are against god" -The teacher. A sad, lost feeling crept over me as I watch the rape of innocent minds.

Absolutely! I think that Radio host said it best when he said, "There is a special place in hell for people who mess with our children."
Now, I do not believe in hell, but there should be a special punishment for this twisted folks.

The radio host is Mike Papantonio. Hes a pretty good guy, from what I've seen. Now, I didn't stay to watch the end of Jesus Camp, but I heard in the end he (the radio host) absolutely tore Becky Fisher (the founder of Jesus Camp) a new one for skewing dogmatic principles and brainwashing the children.

I'll tell ya - I don't know which was more disgusting. this or watching part of Faces of Death once . both made me sick.

I saw this for the first time last night and I was nothing short of HORRIFIED! Stunned, sickened, and I wanted to call the cops and have that woman put in JAIL for child abuse. Those poor kids! All those sobbing little faces is not being filled with the holy spirit, it's sheer unaduterated TERROR. I'm speechless, and as y'all know, I'm not rendered speechless very often.

I did kind of chuckle at the little girl talking about people who go to chuch and don't say anything and just stare at each other. She had to have been talking about Quakers. LOL. I know of no other church that does that. LOL.

My 18-year-old daughter watched it with me and she kept saying, "Why are they always crying?" and "Kids are supposed to be happy."

I can't say that I had such an extreme time at camp like this, but pretty much close to it. As a former Christian I can say that I know to a degree what is going on in the kids little heads.

Basically, it's a complete emotional experience. The young brain really believes what the adults are saying because the kids honestly don't know any different. You really believe you have found the truth and the emotions are overwhelming. Because you are so young, you have no reference point to check with, no life experience to ring any bells or wave red flags in your head, no rational voice trying to bring logic to any statements. You are a blank slate and they are using that fertile ground to fill your mind with all this spiritual talk.

As a child, your mind naturally gravitates to the supernatural and is enchanted by it. This is total brainwashing at it's core and so wrong because these children have nothing telling them anything different. They are little extremists.

I was sickened and scared. It brought back some unsettling memories for me. These kids have no idea what they are really talking about, they are just mimicing what they hear the adults say - only they believe it with everything in their little hearts. So very sad.

I think it's sick..........brainwashing children and turning them into extremists of the christian kind...sick! these people need lined up and shot at...

SOOOOOOOO I haven't seen it are there any snippets of it out there?

lots -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bB2rt3IKJc

Watched it ... and it scared the hell (no pun intended) out of me!!!!!!!!

Sean

WOW

I stopped watchin after the first two minutes.

Ugh, I had to stop watching that half way through. Utter madness, if you ask me. They're taking complete advantage over young children's inability to discern fact from fiction, and that's horribly wrong. It's sad to see how the youth of our country are being forced into a set of beliefs in this way.... they should be able to choose for themselves which religion they want to follow, and this is just teaching them that if you're not a Christian, then you deserve to die and go to hell. Utter. Madness. Sure, we have freedom of religion, but this is just morally wrong and is detrimental to our society as a whole.

I nearly cried after just watching that little bit. If I had seen the whole movie I bet I would have been bawling at the end.

Well said everyone! I think one of the most disturbing aspects of this documentary -- and there were a heck of a lot of them -- had to be Mr. Pro-life Guy. Passing out baby fetuses to these kids, and having them put red tape over their mouths stating "Life", was like nothing I had ever seen before -- and I live in the Bible Belt! Also, I found it most interesting that he went into great detail about how every fetus is a creation of God. But what he didn't say was that 50% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion! So, if God created that life in that womb ... then why is he destroying it as well?! Wonder why he didn't share that little detail with those children?! And I wonder why he didn't share with these children the many scriptures in the Old Testament where God destroys children and pregnant women like it's going out of style! They always seem to leave that part out don't they? They always color-coat everything. This is just one of a myriad of reasons why I finally fled Christianity -- intellectual dishonesty! In all of my 15 years as a devout Christian did I ever sit through a sermon, or a Bible study class for that matter, that ever discussed the atrocities committed by the Bible God. It was always God loves you and the little children. Gee, I wonder why?!

Most kindly,

Sean

I am a Christian but man this movie crossed the line. I loved when the little boy who is 10 said he became a born again at 5 because he wanted more out of life....WTF??? Also i found it disturbing they let him preach to a congregation, first off a pastor is someone who doesn’t just preach to you, but you’re supposed to be able to go to him when you have a problem. Suppose a couple is having sexual problems, what the hell is a 10 year old kid going to know about that situation? There is a difference between believe or brainwashing, and as the radio DJ on the movie said at the end God has a place for people that brainwash his children. Also i found it very interesting they had a cut out of George Bush and placed there hands on it and cried for help. Very disturbing.

I gotta hand it to ya...you are a christian that is not afraid to hide comments...the others see this and duck for cover!!

I wonder if you went into the Camp and proclaim you were atheist - I'm putting my bets on that they would attack you and call you spawn of Satan or something like that ..

Yup most likely...I mean they are hardly going to accept you for your choices are they?? its all about judgement..and if you go to one of those places...you have a death wish for those places are evil..

I hate to play devil's advocate...BUT


Shot? They are exercising their right to freedom of religion and their right to raise their children as they choose. Also, its not like the children don't want to be there...


Children are unable to discern fact from fiction? I think that only happens with bad parenting. Don't tell children about Santa Claus and then say they can't determine fact from fiction...if anything most people don't know fact from fiction.


Who said they aren't?


Detrimental to our society? Would you rather they weren't allowed freedom of religion?

Yea shot...and how the heck would you know if the kids want to be there or not?? Since when does a kid get to tell an overbearing parent that is strict with religion get off saying I DONT WANNA GO?? Do you honestly think for a split sec a parent who pushes their kid to these sick camps would say ..."Ohh ok then, lets forget about it?" ...WRONG!!!


Bad parenting?? Excuse me? Unless you are an adult (considered one by law) and are a parent, then I would take you seriously...and further more...part of being a child is to make believe...nearly every last child on the planet all like make believe, its what kids do as a part of growing up......so when a parent tells their child - Santa is coming...it gives a child the sense of excitement and something to look forward to etc....just like the tooth fairy...

If children could understand the difference between fact and fiction...not one would suck in the story of Santa...and dont sit there telling me you never had make-believe...especially when you where raised christian yourself.

The parents that push them into Jesus camps...say so..they are in control of the child..what they say STICKS...what do you expect a small child to do?? fight with the parent to get its own way??? ..What do you expect a child to know? when a parent pushes religion on to you as a child ...(and most of us on here had it pushed on to us as kids and were too young and naive to know any better)....so tell me what is a child that looks up to the parent for guidance supposed to trust....the word of the parent?? I think the answer is obvious!!!!


You like to state this...but ignore the fact that the very quote yu took from myself was my own right to freedom of speach...

No harm to you but you are not playing devils advocate..you are still only looking at this through the one way, and the only way you ever looked at anything similar in the past..and that is through the eyes of religion..nothing more......you sure as heck areent looking at it through the eyes of a parent...

Why do so many like to forget that they too where once brought up a certain way...they too where once a child that looked up to their parents with trust and for guidence and believed their parents word at such a young age...why do they ignore that they once learnt all they knew from their parents?? and try and put up an arguement without thinking??....why do they forget what it was like to be told by your parents you had to go some place and you tried to protest but you were made go regardless????

1. For what exactly are you proposing that people be murdered for their beliefs?

I am almost certain that such a statement is in violation of 2b and 3a of the forum rules....

In any case, would you care to explain why you think human lives should be taken?


2. You don't know, I don't know. Thus, we have no choice but to be passive. If they don't want to be there, they'll say they don't want to. It's not up to you to shoot the people the trust because you dislike what they teach.


3. It doesn't matter, unless you can provide evidence that this has happened, you shouldn't be saying that they should be shot.


4.So in essence you think that those being raised by parents shouldn't have an opinion on how parents raise them?


5. Telling your child fiction stories is not a good way to help them determine the difference between fact and fiction. Children trust parents. You don't lie to people because it excites them. In the same way, you shouldn't lie to your children for the sake of their (or your own) pleasure.

6.
a.Please remember that this thread is not about me or my personal life.

b.It's discriminatory and prejudice to say that children can't tell the difference between fact and fiction. There are many who can. In the same way, there are many adults who can't tell the difference.

c. Parents (in the eyes of their children) are considered trustworthy figures. After all, parents have the responsibility of raising their children and teaching them. If the parent is content with lying to the child in order to "please" the child, then the parent must also be content with having a confused child who will one day have difficulty telling the difference between fact and fiction.

7. "push them into" Jesus camps? Who says that the children are being pushed?


8. You're right, it does stick. So why shouldn't the parent be allowed to teach their child their beliefs? Because you don't like them? Not to mention, you just advocated lying to children.


9.You assume that the child's "way" is different than the parent's "way".


10. Whatever the parent teaches it. Parents shouldn't lie to their children, however they should be allowed to teach their children their religious beliefs.


11. I think that a parent doesn't "push" religion on a child. In order to do that the parent would have to:

a. Know that the child disagrees

b. Force the child to learn the beliefs as a result of knowing #1

c. Have a considerable amount of parental pride


12. What is your point? I am not at all going against your right to speak. You have a right to speak, I have a right to criticize what you say. In any case, I did say in my post that I was playing devil's advocate.

Then there's the fact that I didn't say you should be shot. You said twice that these people "should be shot" and for what? Their beliefs?


Of course I'm not looking at it through a parent's eyes, that would mean I'm biased.

Not only that, but I haven't mentioned religion in my post or spoken about my own religious beliefs at all in this thread.



Who says they do?


I don't think people do forget this, if they did this thread probably wouldn't exist.

QUOTE

why do they ignore that they once learnt all they knew from their parents??

People ignore that they once learnt all they knew from their parents?

I should mention that not everything we learn is from our parents. Some of it we learn from living (ie not touching fire because it hurts).



I will assume that this is in reference to me....The children in the video do not appear to have protested going to Jesus Camp.

First, I do think what is happening at this "Jesus Camp" is sick and twisted. I think it's mental abuse and if I as a school teacher were to do anything similar (even if it was not about religion) I would be stripped of my credentials and never allowed to work with children again in any governmental department. But that's a government system, and this is a religious one we're speaking about. I guess I could thankfully say that this is not indicative of the majority of Christianity, at least.

While I think it absolutely deplorable that someone would hand foetuses out to children that young, might I suggest something about your statistics of 50% of pregnancies being miscarried:

How Common is Miscarriage?

When considering this question, it is helpful to ask how often pregnancy occurs on average each cycle. Studies looking at very sensitive pregnancy tests suggest that pregnancy will occur in at least 60% of natural cycles in fertile couples.

The risk of miscarriage decreases as pregnancy progresses. It is possible that as many as 50% of pregnancies miscarry before implantation in the womb occurs. Early after implantation, pregnancy loss rate is about 30% (i.e. this is still before a pregnancy is clinically recognised). After a pregnancy may be clinically recognised (between days 35-50), about 25% will end in miscarriage. The risk of miscarriage decreases dramatically after the 8th week as the weeks go by.

Source

So, this article is saying that it "is possible" that 50% of the miscarriages will happen before even implantation - a guess???? Do we know how many happen? Later on it states that these people may not even have been aware that they were pregnant. Furthermore, 30% of miscarriages will happen before the pregnancy is "clinically recognised", which following the link in that article, reads:

A blighted ovum is a very common type of miscarriage that occurs in the early weeks of pregnancy. Also known as an embryonic pregnancy, a blighted ovum occurs when a fertilized egg attaches successfully to the wall of the uterus, but contains no embryo. Instead, all that forms is a placenta and membrane. Most cases of blighted ovum will be miscarried naturally by the body, but sometimes the tissues inside of the uterus needs to be removed by a health care provider.

Blighted ova are actually fairly common in pregnancy. In fact, they account for at least 60% of all first-trimester miscarriages. However, because they occur so early on, many women are not even aware of the fact that they are pregnant when they suffer from a blighted ovum. As a result, many women are not even aware of the condition.

Source

To play Devil's Advocate here, these miscarriages that occur naturally do not necessarily imply that "God is destroying the life". Indeed it is possible that there was no life to begin with (no embryo within to grow). Of course, that means that not ALL abortions conducted would be depriving the world of life, since some would have died anyway, but that by definition does not mean that there is no ethical problems inherent in abortion.

Just a thought,

Morning Paranoid. Up to 50% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion without the woman even knowing that it occurred. That said, even if it is 10, 20, 30% -- it makes no difference. Christians believe that life begins at the moment of conception. An embryo is a child to them (which is one of the reasons the medical field has been limited in stem cell research). The gentleman in the documentary stated the exact same thing. So if God created that life in the womb, then he is also the one who destroyed it.

Believe me Paranoid, living here in the Bible Belt, Christians -- no matter how you define it -- would radically disagree that there is no ethical problems inherent in an abortion.

Just a thought ...

Sean

Well said Becky!

Sean

Not for their beliefs in Jesus NO...this world is FULL of loving GOOD christians.and no they dont deserve to be shot or hurt..<---not what I was talking about at all, so did you ask me what I mean?? answer is NO......so I will tell you once and for all what I meant..............Any parent that abuses a child in any shape or form, IMO (and yes I do mean my opinion) they do not deserve to have those kids and if they go to extremes and it is sick in how they treat a child, then yes put them away for good...for this world would be better off with out this sick behaviour....and I would appreciate it if you stayed clear of trying to twist words to suit yourself....no one here is backing up any of your statements.


No they aren't...I hold a right to ask you how the heck would you know & I held a right to add.....do you honestly think a parent that is overbearing would take a childs answer of NO and say - ohh ok then dont go <----nothing wrong with what I posted...NOTHING....you complain because you may not have an answer


Well the same reasons as to why so many thought it was OK to take human lives due to lack of faith?? <------do you think I would sink that low?? NO...I believe if you are evil and twisted enough to hurt and kill then you should face the same punishment..I do NOT think lives should be taken all because they hold a faith...


Did you watch the video?? did you see their faces?? ...what makes you think they really wanted to be there??..............tell me what would happen to a child IF - he or she told it mother or father...I dont want to go to IE - church?? and the parents believed i sending their kid to church.what wold happen if the kid said NO?? please tell me ...this I so would like to hear the answer to

Take religion out of it..and ook at it another way..............I lost count ho often I refused to go to my borring ole aunts house...I hated it....but my parents wanted me to go visit, as they like to do this....but when I protested...I got a mack on the rear and was made go like it or not <------------------if I complained more so on top of what happened...I knew I would get punished more.....[b]so I put up with it to keep my parents off my back....I had to OBEY my parents like it or not...........now lets bring religion back in ......I never liked going to church OR confessions...NEVER...I was a kid..playing was more important for me..so what do you think happened when I told my parents NO CHURCH???? ...........my dads slipper had a meeting with my rear end..and next thing I knew I was in church....I soon saw I had no other choice, what my parents said stuck..and thats that........[/b]...........

Now Why do you think my parents thought it was a good idea to raise me as a catholic?....................because their parents did the same to them, and their parents did the same before them....it was history repeating itself....you teach your kid what you were taught, for it was the only thing you believed was best at the time............I seriously did not give a toss for church as a kid...I didnt like going to confess sins, for I was just a child and I didnt beleive I sinned ...BUT I went anyway to please my parents...for I knew it made them happy...so I learned to deal with it.....<---do you think you could look at it that way??

Being raised by parents is one thing...I to was raised by parents...but I only THOUGHT I knew it all...heck all teenagers think they know it all, it is so common with teens...its a stage they all go through....but the sec you have a kid of your own....you are in for one heck of a shock....ask any parent..if they felt differently AFTER they became a parent...chances are COI..you will find they sure did....................

I'll give you a quick and easy example..................before hand as a teen always felt my dad was too strict...and I felt he picked on me for no reason, I actually had the gall to accuse him of wanting to pick on me....all I cared about was self pity...that's it..just self pity. I thought i knew ALL....I hated when he sat up waiting for me to come home from a night club, even up till I was 22 yrs old...I thought he was nuts and only looking to find a way to get at me.............<------------------so true I did think like this.............the sec I had Becky....I SAW what it was like to worry 24/7...it shocked me...........every day since that, I worry non stop..and now i fully understand as to WHY my dad sat up waiting for me..why he did the things he did...he was a parent..and I found out that even when he was a teenager, he was just like me...............it happens..you do see life much differently when you become a parent................have you any idea how many fathers that would kill to protect their daughters???..........but those same fathers wouldnt have felt that way BEFORE they became parents
Some day COI, you will find out for yourself...and when you do..I hope you remember this

You sure have a way of making things sound so messed up...parents that tell their kids about santa are not laying harm on the kid...and when the kid finds out there is no santa..it hardly disturbs them..they later realize that it was all part of their growth and use of imagination...

As for SANTA..Santa claus DID exist as a real person once.........so parents like to keep that good story alive it feeds on a childs imagination...but GOD..we do not have real evidence that proves god does exist, we just believe God exists and believe we know it...but that itself can never EVER be proved as ACVTUAL FACT to a child nor can it be proved to others...Personal experience can NEVER be proved to others it is real...thats why it is called - personal experience.......so..if we just believe in God..but have NO evidence to prestnt to a child for real..then that to is a form of lying...because we have nothing for REAL to back it all up..the child (much like santa) cannot ever see God in person..cant hear Gods voice..and cant feel or touch God...no one can...the only ones that say they do mean they do so with their HEARTS...thats it........the only difference between telling a kid about santa and God..is..later on when the kid is older, they tell the kid the truth..but they DONT tell em the same about God..for they cant prove it, they can prove Santa lied and died..


You were raised christian..you are now just seeing I made sense and therefore you try and dodge what I said...you know fine well you too where told certain things..and you are now blowing this all out of wack to suit yourself


Name me a kid that prefers to go to a church rather than go out and play with their friends?? <----------------at the same time.....name me a parent that allows them to make the choice?? i'll bet you that not one parent who is strict with religion will allow their kid to protest and have it their way...........not a mission..........so who says they arent pushed there?? I SERIOUSLY believe you didnt watch the video, for everyone that saw it, all made the same comments..it was a twisted video....

Answer me this..why have some christians looked at the same video and agreed it was sick and twisted??...could it be that they beieve that there are much easier ways to ease a child into a christian faith?? think so?? I do....

There are christians of this board, that are parents themselves, and I am willing to bet, that they believe that a child should get treated much better and should be eased in without makeing it look SICK as it does in the video...............The christian faith...teaches these people certain values...when a good christian likes to follow the teachings of Jesus...then they becaome loving parents and find better ways to get a child interested in faith

Take me for example..Im not a christian, but raising my child as one..ad she goes to Sunday School....WHY do you think I allow her to go there??? because I saw 1st hand on how they do it...they make it FUN for the child, they INVOLVE the child, they make a child feel part of it all..and it is all about fun and learning..........my kid loves it...ok granted she thinks the church is a castle LOL but she stll says - mommy me go to the castle today?? ............they teach her about the lord and at the same time they show her how fun it is and how easy it all is....the kids in that Sunday school LOVE it...how do I know?...................when I see how happy and content they are, the sec they enter the church sevice for the final 10 mins, they are so well behaved and I 100% agree with it...they even have their own kiddies bibles etc.............<--------------------thats what a lot of good parents do for their kids..nothing sick about it What is the difference between that and how I was raised in a church??...........I never got to see what it was like to have fun while learning..I had to follow the service the same as the adults and I never understood it, any wonder I protested..!!

Why do you insist on trying to twist what I mean??? WHY?? it has nothing to do with the beliefs in christ...if you saw the video, it is the treatment and how they push the kids hard like that...nothing to do with what belief in christ they have...please stop your ignorance and twisting words...as for lying to a kid about santa..hey sue me...while you are at it sue the millions of others that have done the same

What would a parent do if a child said NO I DONT WANNA GO??

You were not playing devils advocate..you looked at like you always looked at anything like it...through the eyes of religion and that is it..you have never once looked at in any other way....wherent you once afraid to tell your parents you turned away from the christian faith?? <----------------im stating this to allow you to think...its an important and FAIR statement..you feared it for a reason...maybe not a fear of violence..but you still feared something....now you got to ask yourself WHY did you fear telling them at 1st??...another reason why I am stating this is because I too once feared telling my parents I no longer was catholic....I feared it for I didnt want to hear or see their reactions...they spent years raising me as catholic....need I say more??

gee you seem to stress so hard on the same thing over and over...and yet never bothered to ask me what I meant <--how often must I repeat this?
One last time - NO I do NOT believe people should get shot for just holding a belief in God...I never said this...not once did I state it....I was talking about the video and the sick treatment the kids were going through...

Well I for one was broken up when I lost my 1st child...I was arround 10-12weeks gone before I lost it....I 1st found out I was pregnant after trying for so long..at 4 weeks...I was so excited..I thought FINALLY im going to be a mom....weeks later I was doubled over in two in sheer agony..winded up in hospital..and I lost it............heartbroken is not the word to describe how I felt

No doc can tell you what exactly causes a misscarriage...but it doesnt stop a mother from blaming herself..I blamed myself...I still do....its natural to blame yourself...I didnt want to try anymore..it took me ages to get pregnant in the 1st place..then I loose it..so I figure..why bother? But Gary longed to be a father and he talked me into trying, as he read it was so easy to fall pregnant within weeks of a misscarriage........I did...it wasnt fun..but I thought...ok one last try..but all the time I was down in the mouth still saddned by my loss

I was pregnant so fast..it was too much to take in and YES I was so scared of suffering again....I prayed non stop...I spent hours praying for God to allow me to keep this one...and thats why now my ID is - Beckys_Mom <---it was a name i used on the Pampers website before coming here..I loved it was proud to be a mom and so here I am

But let me tell you PA..........one very important thing you might wanna know...........when I lost my child from being almost 12 weeks gone...I had me a scan with Becky at just 10 weeks..I told them I was so worried and demanded a scan...I still have the pic..........a fetus at just 10 weeks is in human form and you can see the heartbeat etc....so PA...it was a great loss...for when I saw beckys scan at 10weeks...I thought about the little thing inside me before I lost it..it was ALIVE it had human form...I had grew a bond with it and it was happy..........

You should look at a scan pics fro 10 weeks on...it is amazing what you see.........and one day you will be looking at your own partners scan ...and then it will hit you..im going to be a parent!! and then you will find a different kind of inner peace and content with everything

I hope someday you will be a dad and never have to suffer a loss...<---I seriously mean that

People don't have to back up my statements in order for them to be true.

What these people are doing is not abuse, if it is, please explain how it is abuse. They are merely following their beliefs and teaching their children what they believe. They have a right to do that. You stated (twice) that they should be shot. I was asking you for what reason should they be shot? Because they are teaching their kids their beliefs?


I was referring to your statements about them being "shot". Saying that people should be murdered is illegal. It's called threatening behavior.


Why did you say they should be shot?


Neither I nor you can possibly know what would happen. We are not psychics. Nor are we fortune tellers.


Touching story...but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The children appear to enjoy being there.


Parents worry, this I know.
Teens think they know more then they actually do, This I know.

HOWEVER, the above reasons do not make it OK for an adult to be an over-bearing prick. It's called bad relationship skills. Sure, you're a parent? So what? That doesn't mean that children have thoughts of their own. Granted, you know more, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to what your child says.


Sorry, but I think any sort of lying to children is harmful to the child's development. I understand that you do not see the same way.

Also, I know many people who (as teenagers) learned that Santa did not exist and were quite disturbed by the fact that their parents lied to them. I am an example. I do not like that my parents lied to me about all those mythical creatures, I do not trust what they say.





This is not about my personal life.


I am not like everyone BM. And I am glad.

Also, I said that I was merely playing devil's advocate.

Two, I do not believe in rights, thus I do not believe that the parents should be allowed to teach their children this bull. However, we do have rights in this country, and they should not be violated because other people think that the people are "twisted"


Again, you have posted your personal opinion. However, to the parents in the video, they are merely following their beliefs and their faith.

I didn't twist what you said. I quoted you. They may be pushing their children, however they have a right to do so. And they shouldn't be "shot" for teaching their children what they believe. It has everything to do with their beliefs because what they are doing is something Christ would want them to do.


I don't know, you don't know, this question is not relevant.


I was, in fact, playing devil's advocate. According to my beliefs the parents should be tried and stoned, however we do not live in a country where my beliefs are dominant. We live in a country with freedom of religion and rights. Thus, the parents should be allowed to do what they're doing.


Then WHY did you say they should be shot? Because so far you haven't given a good reason to take innocent lives.

Jesus camp I must say is some of the most disgraceful child abuse I have ever seen.

Explain how it is child abuse?

Psychological abuse, enforced indoctrination and mental torture.

It wasnt personal opinion it was REAL life fact...that sort of thing does go on...I thought you could tell the difference between what an opinion is and what actual fact was?? dont look that way



I told you why they need shot...and I made it clear it was NOT due to holding a faith

further more COI..you never once looked at it my way to even form any kind of understanding..that is why I will NOT bother going through your posts on this matter they are menaingless judging by how you addressed them all..you didnt put in any real effort to at least give a full and propper responce that shows you at least understood
you seem to argue to not only show how you differ but for the sake of just arguing

As far as I m concerned you are not up for debating this with me...and it is POINTLESS even trying to get you to see it any other way

you are glad you arent like others...so what? I have good morals...child abuse is wrong..and you can go on and on asking what is abusive...but I dont believe you could ever understand what I mean...EVER..not by how you respond...with so little effort

you lack understanding and thats what you have just provided in responce ...especially when other good christians here could see what was so wrong with that video...bravo

Enforced indoctrination? That happens everywhere (particularly in schools).

Mental torture? Can you prove that?



I told you that I saw it your way.


The main reason I was debating with you is because you said they should be shot. And for no apparent reason. You say child abuse, but have yet to give an example of how those children were abused. If you truly thought they were abused, you'd call the police.

I think just watching it is enough.


How is there indoctrination in school?

If you ever stated you saw it my way..I sure missed it...for the enire time all I saw was you tossing out arguements for the sake of it

as for my views on them being shot <--coi...nothing you can say will make me change my mind...I differ from you..I believe that any parent that mistreats a child needs shot...thats my view like it or not

thise children were abused..I SAW the darn video..I looked at most of their faces..it was horrible.it looked SICK <---when so many here all say the same on how sick and so twisted it all was...then thats their way of saying its child abuse...for they are hardly saying following God is sick now are they????

..now just because you didnt see it..thats not my problem

But the majority of these happen because of the aforementioned problem - there was no embryo. But you are correct, if God created the life in the womb, then it is also through God that it died. Why this is, I don't think anyone can say. But by the same token, I don't think that it is logical to conclude that just because miscarriages exist that therefore abortion is ok. People die from natural causes every day, does that mean murder is also ok?

And I think you misread my comment about the ethical implications. I was pointing out that there are still ethical implications to consider.

All the best, sean.

Seriously, I must agree, Matt. Children screaming, crying, being told they're full of sin and deserve to burn in the fires of hell, teaching them "you're either with us or against us", having a fetus shown to them to get them to become pro-life.... That's just wrong. Purely. Simply. WRONG. Would any parent give their 5 year old child an EMBRYO to get them to believe in certain principles? NO. Children are not SUPPOSED to be clones of us when it comes to beliefs, morals, ethics, and religion. That's simply madness. Children have just as much right to choose what they want to believe as any adult, and Jesus camp is teaching those children ONE way to believe. They're taught that this way is the ONLY way. There's no "options" for them. You're either with them or against them. These children aren't taught that they have a choice, therefore they cannot say "But I don't think that's right..." or "I don't want to be here". That's painfully obvious from watching even a snippet of that movie. Having them taught a religion is one thing, but complete dogmatic indoctrination like this is simply unconstitutional. Yes, we have the freedom of religion, but these children are taught the exact opposite; there's only ONE right religion, everyone who isn't born again Christian is a Satan worshipper and deserves to die on the spot and burn in hell forever, and that there's no way to disprove any of their incredulous claims. THAT is NOT constitutional, and these children are going to grow up to be the next generation of Americans. Do you really want a generation that believes people who READ HARRY POTTER are evil and should be burned at the stake? I really, honestly doubt that. But, should these children be killed for their beliefs? No. That's just as wrong. They're children, after all, they don't know that there's any other way of thinking, and if they do they're taught that that way is simply evil and should be avoided at all costs. The adults are who should be blamed. But not killed. Perhaps the dismantlement of their institutions would suffice for the control of their dangerous practices? That seems to happen quite often after these peoples' institutions have been put into the public eye.

I would have to say that, yes, schools DO indoctrinate certain beliefs into their students, but not with the same intensity or fervor of Jesus Camp. Dumbing us Down by John Taylor Gatto perfectly articulates this point.
http://books.google.com/books?id=KS0jIGX0s...-with-thumbnail

But, if we think for a moment, everyone is indoctrinated in their beliefs. If your parents taught you certain morals, they've indoctrinated you to a point. We are a product of every person we've come into contact with, so ,in effect, we're just a mass of indoctrinated beliefs that we have allowed, or chosen to allow, ourselves to be influenced by.

Yea its sick, and still we have the odd one to chant its not!!